November 29, 2011 2:47 am at 2:47 am #832397
slave-to-g-d, yes I also heard about this closed door meeting by invitation only, but that is NOT what I heard it was about or how it went. What I was informed is that the Rabbonim were instructed that nothing had changed and they were told to keep “informers” silenced and that they should handle cases themselves according to what they deem is raglayim l’davar or not. If they feel it is raglayim l’davar they themselves should report it straight to the DA’s office and skip going to the police because in Brooklyn, they have a deal with the DA’s office and they will handle things on the QT. They were also told NOT to get the family of the victim involved with the DA but to handle it themselves and keep the victim and the family quiet.
I believe it is for these reasons the Rabbonim want to get rid of computers and internet in the home. It is because information is shared very accurately and very quickly among the K’lal.November 29, 2011 2:57 am at 2:57 am #832398
I thought the conclusion they came to was the complete opposite of what you wrote.November 29, 2011 2:59 am at 2:59 am #832399
I will say without giving details that the abused who “get over it” still suffer terribly in different ways throughout their married and child rearing lives. If, GD FORBID, my child comes to me with any story, I would like to believe I would leave no stone unturned to find out if it is true before showing no mercy.
Still, I do know that identifying perpetrators is not so simple. Even when the listeners are willing to believe it, the stories the kids tell are sometimes unclear and leave out details that indicate the severity of the situation. I still kick myself when I think of the three or four times that a friend of mine mentioned something his teacher did and I kept telling him to shut up. He said it half joking – I guess in case I didn’t believe him – and I thought he was being funny. It is only 20 years later that I realize what he probably wanted me to know.
I also was friends with someone who was a victim of abuse by an adult (NOT a rabbi) but she and several other victims would not testify because they were fragile people and all of their testifying would have brought only a misdamenor charge.November 29, 2011 3:01 am at 3:01 am #832400
wandering chana – I am pretty sure, based on what was published afterwards, that you are correct.November 29, 2011 4:10 am at 4:10 am #832401
It seems like not all the Rabbonim are happy with the way things are going and they are NOT keeping quiet. They are speaking about the closed door session and they are letting it be known what was said there. Lets think about this for a minute. If Rabbonim were told to go to the police or to tell their kehillos to go to the police as the Agudah had announced previously, why would they need a “quiet” behind the scenes, closed door conference by invitation only, with a guard at the door with a “guest list” checking ID’s so no one that was not invited could not enter.
It is really hard to inform people of the truth when many of you don’t want to hear it. It really puts me in a difficult position. I am an advocate for children and an advocate for victims. I am told things. People pass along important information to me. Many of you want to know and be informed and many of you wish to continue to keep your heads in the sand. I decided that I would offer the information and if the moderators felt it was appropriate to post, they would post it. If they felt it was inappropriate they would NOT post it. It is important to stop sweeping all this under the rug. It is important to start taking some of the responsibility into our own hands and stop accepting unacceptable behavior.
WE have to take some responsibility as well for allowing it to continue decade after decade and not joining together as a K’lal and saying NO MORE, we will NOT allow it to continue any longer. Can you imagine how many children could have been saved had people such as ourselves taken a stand one decade ago or even two or three? Thousands upon thousands of yiddishe neshomas could have been saved from this evil, disgusting, humiliating, degrading and traumatizing life altering abuse. So do we continue to play the “hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil” game or do we take a stand and put an end to this monstrous practice and to those who choose to cover it up.
I am sitting here crying. Not knowing what to do anymore. Do I walk away from here? Do I stay and keep trying? I don’t know. I am no longer sure of what my tafkid is.November 29, 2011 4:26 am at 4:26 am #832402
Just to clarify, I was replying to “slave-to-g-d”.
Thank you for summarizing, Aries.November 29, 2011 6:12 am at 6:12 am #832403
aries -It wouldn’t shock me in the least bit -if everything you posted is true. But tell us -how do you get the inside scoop -while e/o else just gets the press release from their spokesman?November 29, 2011 1:16 pm at 1:16 pm #832404
Aries, thank you, thank you. I have just felt like screaming sometimes because I feel like, is anyone paying attention? Does ANYONE care about OUR Yiddishe neshamas who are being utterly destroyed by the monsters among us?? YES, they ARE monsters who would do this to children. It is a horrible mental illness that prompts an adult to violate a child like this. Where is the outrage? How have we gotten to the point where we are so afraid of “Daas Torah” that we allow the destruction of our children to happen in our midst??November 29, 2011 2:11 pm at 2:11 pm #832405
aries – If you were responding to me, I think you misunderstood. I was saying that I heard that they were finally on board about encouraging people to go to the police. In a recent case they did just that. If you read my first post you would know that I didn’t disagree with anything you had said about putting an end to this. I am cautious because I know of a man fasely accused by a sick ‘friend’ but I am no less zealous about revealing matters when they are true. If you knew me you would laugh at the thought.November 29, 2011 2:23 pm at 2:23 pm #832406
And I am not sure, but I can’t imagine anyone here is disagreeing with you. I think some people are put off by the intensity of your argument, afraid you are condemning innocent in a sweep with the guilty. You may not mean that at all but to others who may not understand where your passion comes from it sounds rash. Maybe it is that to which they are responding. Don’t be deterred by disagreement. Continue your work, speak kindly to all (not saying you didn’t) and the truth ALWAYS prevails.November 29, 2011 2:35 pm at 2:35 pm #832407
Frankly I was ashamed that it seems the Aguda convention spent more time bashing the internet and iPhones that it did on Abuse.
This is one issue I feel the laity is ahead of the clergyNovember 29, 2011 3:11 pm at 3:11 pm #832408
I know because some of the Rabbonim have started to advocate for the victims and are no longer towing the Augdah line, they have reported back to the victims and advocates. They are quite appalled by what they were told.November 29, 2011 3:48 pm at 3:48 pm #832409
Rav Noach Isaac Oelbaum Shlit’a of Kew Gardens Hills gave a lecture back in January titled “Guidlines for Mesira Regarding Child Abuse”. You can listen to the lecture online, or download it and listen wherever and whenever. You can find this lecture on torahanytime.com (search under speaker for Rav Oelbaum and scroll back towards January 2011. Lecture was given sometime in early January. It is an easy listen. His English is impeccable.November 29, 2011 4:34 pm at 4:34 pm #832410mikehall12382Member
If all the victims of sexual abuse in the frum community were to step forward, we would be shocked by the amount of people speaking up…
We would also be in further shock to find out who knew what, who swept what under the rug and worst of all where these abusers are STILL employed….
Believe what you want, but there is a problem and we need our leaders to be more vocal about it.
There are already several public cases where convicted abusers have been sentenced to prison and yet some of our “leaders” make excuses for them calling them great people who have been framed by an antiemetic court.
with leadership like this we are doomed to fail our children once againNovember 29, 2011 4:49 pm at 4:49 pm #832411
aries -Unfortunately there are a lot of problems in the Frum community. Abuse is just one of them. I wouldn’t be allowed to post some of things I know and seen.
All we have to do in this world is try. I think the reason the more serious problems are swept under the carpet and things like internet & Tzinus are always screamed about – is because most people can’t or don’t know how to deal with the serious problems.
Denial is just a result of this lack of capability!
But e/o should know it won’t be like this forever -one day we will be out of Golus and the Reshayim will all be punished.
And not just them, but their Enablers, including the ones who looked aside will also be!November 29, 2011 5:47 pm at 5:47 pm #832412
“with leadership like this we are doomed to fail our children once again”
thats a little harsh…but i get your point and agree completely. the problem is that every time a sensitive issue is brought up be it stigma or sexual abuse or spousal abuse or any similar issue people say “we know its a problem…but why must we air our dirty laundry?”
well…because not airing it is causing immeasurable harm to its victims. like when i wrote my article and now when im working on my book ive been told that by so many people and it always annoys me…because its people like that who keep the problem happening.
DISCLAIMER: i in no way support the gay rights movement or anyone associated with it. the following is just a review of their tactics.
the gay rights movement has been fighting for the right to marry for decades and have finally started to get what they want. when it first started…people said “shkoyach you wanna be homosexual…be homosexual…i dont wanna hear about it” which basically meant that there was no acceptance of homosexuality, but people didn’t want to openly admit their prejudices.
so what the gays did was force the issue by being in everyones face and getting extremely vocal advocates on their side…and slowly public opinion began to shift. they havent gotten what they want yet…but theyve made tremedous headway…BECAUSE they were so vocal about it.
such issues, whether you agree with them or not…can only be fought for by being vocal and outspoken and willing to take some heat…”dont be so vocal” is the refuge of those who arent interested in societal change.
again…i dont support the gay rights movement at all…but there is no doubt something to learn from them. (btw the same applies to the civil rights movement and hippies getting teh vietnam war ended…butliekyea)November 29, 2011 6:10 pm at 6:10 pm #832413always runs with scissors fastParticipant
soliek what is the nature of the book you are presently writing?
And the article you mention what was the topic?November 29, 2011 6:21 pm at 6:21 pm #832414
People HAVE tried to be more open about the issue, they are mostly BLOGGERS
And what have some said about Bloggers?
They attack the bloggers instead of criminal.
Another place that has gone after criminals is the Jewish Week, Again people attack the Jewish Week and NOT the criminalsNovember 29, 2011 7:22 pm at 7:22 pm #832415
All true, and the Agudah and other Jewish Organizations will attack the Homosexuals and the act of Homosexuality but will ignore the fact that most molesters are committing non consensual homosexual acts on minors and yet THEY themselves are not only ignoring it but protecting them. How hypocritical can they be? Seriously!November 29, 2011 7:41 pm at 7:41 pm #832416
aries2756, when I wrote “minimal investigation of the basic facts”, I meant that there is some minimal evidence, or in your words, “raglaim ledavar” to support the accusations. The Rav I heard it from is not from, Brooklyn and that is why he said the police and not the DA.November 29, 2011 7:45 pm at 7:45 pm #832417
aries2756, they kept it private so that people who are lacking daas torah, and don’t have any business paskining such important shaiylos, shouldn’t attack them for not saying to go to the police in all cases, with or without any basis.November 29, 2011 8:16 pm at 8:16 pm #832418
slave-to-g-d, they made that very clear in their previous announcement, there would have been no need to have this private session to reiterate that. It makes no sense. I believe what I was told.November 29, 2011 8:26 pm at 8:26 pm #832419
If I ever suspected anyone of abusing my kids I am going to the police, I am sure they have abused others and need to be STOPPED ASAPNovember 29, 2011 8:59 pm at 8:59 pm #832420
Did anyone listen to the lecture from Rav Oelbaum on this topic?November 29, 2011 9:05 pm at 9:05 pm #832421
Some perspective over here:
But I will not accept insinuations that the rabbanim are apathetic. The blogosphere happens to be full of bitter people who need someone to blame and stam people who jump at every opportunity to denigrate the rabbanim, and it should be obvious to everyone that anything gleaned from such sources or anything similar should be taken with a gallon of salt.
Is it possible that they will make mistakes? Absolutely. They are not gods. But they are trying, and that is all we can ask for.
The next thing to do is to find a rabbi you trust and to ask him how to go about helping make the world a better place, through your specific talents and in your specific situation, within the bounds of Halacha.
Then you will be fulfilling your tafkid.November 29, 2011 9:35 pm at 9:35 pm #832422
yitayningwut, what you say about Rabbonim is true. However, much of what is claimed in the name of Rabbonim comes from self declared “askanim” who are the political element you mentioned. I think a lot of cynicism about “Rabbonim” (and not just about this topic) is that most people have never heard a gadol declare anything, but have heard plenty from self declared mouthpieces whether in the press or elsewhere. That stems from another sorry state of affairs, many people do not have a Rav to call upon and ask or discuss anything and are left trying to sort out what “rabbonim” might have said from newspapers, the blogosphere or from someone at a kiddush in shul.November 29, 2011 10:44 pm at 10:44 pm #832423
I agree about the political element and the mouthpieces not always saying what they are supposed to. Unfortunately however people don’t make the distinction you are making. The rabbanim get unduly bashed and vilified. Even places where there are no “mouthpieces” people make the same nasty comments.November 29, 2011 11:18 pm at 11:18 pm #832424
Is it possible that bloggers will make mistakes? Absolutely. They are not gods. But they are trying, and that is all we can ask for.November 29, 2011 11:29 pm at 11:29 pm #832425ZeesKiteParticipant
Thank you. Beautifully written! One more point, if I may.
Rabbonim are known personalities, we know who they are. To the contrast spineless cowards, who spew venom on them anonymously.November 29, 2011 11:44 pm at 11:44 pm #832426
yitayningwut, very well said.November 30, 2011 12:34 am at 12:34 am #832427
yitayningwut -“The rabbanim get unduly bashed and vilified.”
From personal experience -some Rabbonim get unduly bashed and vilified – others are just like their name Ra -Bonim (bad kids).
But it seems that even though there are only a few like this, they throw their power around and protect bad people. Even one bad person being protected can hurt countless others!November 30, 2011 12:52 am at 12:52 am #832428ZeesKiteParticipant
Some people still don’t seem to get the point.
Have we become a site of ??? ???? ?? ????????? I used to blog on a different site that got much to much anti-Torah and anti-Gedolim. So I came here. Must I cease from here too? I truly thought this would be a more Torah oriented place to chat. I’m beginning to feel disappointed. Very.November 30, 2011 1:10 am at 1:10 am #832429
there is a difference between rabbonim and self proclaimed rabbonimNovember 30, 2011 1:35 am at 1:35 am #832430
I think it goes hand in hand. Rav Moshe writes in a teshuva that people distort his opinion even though he is around to refute them. If someone does not have a Rav, and looks to hear what the Rav says from an outside source, then he will get a distorted message.November 30, 2011 2:29 am at 2:29 am #832432
They have been trying to change the laws in NY regarding victims of clerical abuse. Almost all organizations are in favor of these changes EXCEPT The Catholic Church and the Agudah.
Why don’t you include in your allegations what those laws are? Huh?
Because they are not aimed at preventing future abuse.
Because they are aimed at bankrupting the organizations.
Now explain to me why you think a yeshiva which may have allowed abuse 40 years ago should be bankrupted? What good will be served by that?
In case you are all wondering- the Aguda opposes efforts to retroactively take away the statute of limitations for civil cases against organizations for allowing this abuse.November 30, 2011 3:17 am at 3:17 am #832433
You know, Aries makes a good point.
“All true, and the Agudah and other Jewish Organizations will attack the Homosexuals and the act of Homosexuality but will ignore the fact that most molesters are committing non consensual homosexual acts on minors and yet THEY themselves are not only ignoring it but protecting them. How hypocritical can they be? Seriously! “
Aries does not make a good point at all.
The aguda does not condone molesting, and it is retarded to suggest that they do. I have no reason to think they are not trying their best.
I’d like to see one of you clowns trying to decide whether to go to the police and perhaps destroy an innocent rebbi and his family since nobody will ever believe he is innocent even if there is no evidence, versus maybe allowing him to molest other kids.
If you keep going in that vein, you will both be banned. There are plenty of websites for that kind of stupid talk.November 30, 2011 3:38 am at 3:38 am #832434
ZeesKite and slave-to-g-d –
Thank you very much.
Health and soliek –
There are bad apples in every crop and that is unfortunate. I do not believe they are anywhere near the majority though, and my point was directed at those who make general attacks against the rabbanim.
What can I tell you? You’re absolutely right. I’ve said a million times on this site that people should have a rav. But people are too busy bashing rabbanim to realize that if only they went and got themselves a legitimate rav they would start to see that there isn’t much to bash about.
1) Perhaps not us specifically, but they are definitely out to get the Chareidi world and its rabbanim. This is a fact that anyone who’s ever left the sheltered confines of the Yeshiva World can attest to.
2) I don’t believe their care outweighs their other motives.
3) That is a straight-out lie. I don’t know what blogs you’ve been hanging around.November 30, 2011 3:54 am at 3:54 am #832435For_realParticipant
This Rabbi – bashing is a little over the top. Everyone keeps talking about the “ulterior / other motives” of the Rabonnim. And what exactly would those motives be? What would be their motive to not report child abuse? What are you insinuating?November 30, 2011 4:41 am at 4:41 am #832436
Excuse me, unidentified choshuve moderator (Mod-80/pba? Probably, considering the use of the word “retarded”, twice):
You COMPLETELY HIJACKED my post and the meaning behind it so you could cleverly toss your ad hominems out and threaten to ban me for something I DID NOT SAY.
You deleted my comment that followed Aries’ quote, without acknowledgment, and replaced it with your opinion of Aries’ comment that I (attempted to) quote.
The point I was trying to get across (which I invite you to respond to/pick apart/insult, perhaps using an actual screen name) was: Why is man/boy nonconsensual pedophelia being swept under the rug when consensual homosexuality is clearly an aveira ACCORDING TO THE TORAH?
Yes, that is precisely what I was responding to, and I deleted it because it was so disgusting, but I allow it now to respond openly.
Just what gives you the brazenness to suggest that aguda doesn’t care about man/boy pedophilia?
If you care to discuss the issues, do so like an adult. This is not the place for stupid accusations that sound cute because you managed to find some little “hook.”
What in the world does Hashem’s stance on homosexuality (which is completely undebatable) have to do with how our community to respond to accusations of molestation with varying degrees of substantiation?
And why don’t you learn sometime that just because someone doesn’t share your view of what the solution is, doesn’t mean that they are in bad faith, or are trying to encourage the problem.
And maybe have just a tad little bit of respect for your rabbonim. Just a tad.
And this really is the last warning on this thread. -95November 30, 2011 5:05 am at 5:05 am #832437
MODS, I didn’t say they condone it I say they ignore it and protect the abusers. There is a difference.
edited. Very well. Do you suppose there is some bad faith on their part?November 30, 2011 5:13 am at 5:13 am #832438Sam2Participant
I just think that this issue brings up a visceral reaction in people. Everyone knows that even Gedolim can make mistakes. Usually, we assume that they don’t. A topic like this, which brings up such a strong emotional reaction, is something that people can go over the top to and accuse even great people of terrible things so long as they feel that those people aren’t doing everything possible.
It’s very similar to the Gilad Shalit issue. It’s tough to have a legitimate opinion because both sides have very strong arguments. Terrible things happen either way if the wrong decision is made. It is our job to voice our opinions so that we can ensure that our leaders, whether political or Gedolei Torah, have all the facts and see every possible angle before they make a decision. It’s also our job to trust that HKBH put the right people in these decision-making positions and that what they decide will be what is best for Klal Yisroel in the long run.November 30, 2011 5:26 am at 5:26 am #832439
I just wish to acknowledge that you clearly mean well. Notwithstanding the fact that I emphatically disagree with you on this one, I believe you are a very intelligent, level-headed, and good person.November 30, 2011 5:27 am at 5:27 am #832440
Well said.November 30, 2011 5:42 am at 5:42 am #832441
Mods, I believe that when they started protecting the Rabbonim they did not have the knowledge they have today. They honestly did not know what kind of damage it was doing to the children. They probably thought that kids are resilient and they will forget about it and get over it. And they should be more concerned about protecting The Rebbeim and the Yiddishe Image. They were concerned about not making a chilul Hashem and about not letting outsiders see that Jews are also human and have the same problems as everyone else.
Now that WE know what kind of damage this has done, the fact that abused children become adult abusers so abuse breeds abuse, it ruins the lives of the victims, the kids go off the derech, they grow up to never have normal relationships in their adult lives or never marry, or they become homosexual, or they turn to drugs and alcohol to self-medicate and numb the pain, trauma and nightmares, or they overdose or purposely take their own lives…..the situation has spiraled out of control both for the victims and for those who protected the abusers.
What are they supposed to do now after protecting so many, admit that they were wrong and tell people to start turning abusers over to the police? Well what happens if one of those they had protected for so long is turned over to the police? What happens if it comes out that so many Chashuv Rabbonim knew about them for many years? What happens to the reputation of the Yeshiva we spoke about in the other thread when the truth comes out that they harbored a molester for decades? What happens when abusers are turned in and their families come complaining to the Rabbonim that they know they protected so and so, why won’t they help their family member?
IMHO, they should say they were wrong for so long, that they didn’t know what the outcome would be for so many innocent children. What they need to do is hold a conference where they invite victims to come in and speak to them, have a panel of Rabbonim in different rooms and let victims stand up and tell their stories. Let there be many different rooms so that many victims get to speak out and tell their stories and let them name their abusers. Let the Rabbonim listen to their pain, let them see the effects on the once innocent and frum kinderlach. Then they can come together and make a decision. Then they can report back to the olam that after reviewing so many cases from the perspective of the victims, they have come to the conclusion that a molester is a “rodef” and the damage they do is too dangerous to take a chance with, therefore one must turn them over to the police just like any other person that is in the category of “rodef”.
I wonder if you or anyone else has any Idea if any of these Rabbonim have ever invited an abuse victim to come and speak to them and hear their story? Rabbonim do NOT want to speak to victims. They do NOT want to hear their stories. They do not want to dirty their hands, or desensitize their delicate ears with the harshness and filth of the truth these victims carry.
This is the painful truth and this is what hurts the most. This is why the victims of abuse say they have no voice. This is how they were silenced. It is not enough that they were humiliated by the abuse itself, they were shamed into keeping quiet. Do you think it feels good not to trust or look up to Rabbonim or those who are supposed to be our leaders? Do you know what it feels like? It feels like being a Yosom, like you lost your parents and you are alone in the world. That is what it is like to lose your faith and trust in the Gedolim or in what we consider Daas Torah. It feels like you had the rug pulled right out from under your feet. The very same people you would not have considered to make a move without checking with, the very same people you would change your schedule around to have the opportunity to meet and greet, or be privileged to chap a few words of chizuk from, you no longer trust or feel any sense of chizuk from, just hypocrisy. It feels like you were shot in the heart and you are bleeding to death. That is what it feels like to lose your respect and your confidence in the chaburah of Rabbonim you trusted all your life. No it doesn’t feel good, but it is what it is and it is NOT going to change until this issue is resolved.
And by the way, MY Rav said to go to the police.November 30, 2011 6:02 am at 6:02 am #832443
For those stating Rabbonim are not doing anything, covering up etc.. Did anyone listen to Rav Oelbaum speak on this subject? Lecture can be found at torahanytime.comNovember 30, 2011 6:07 am at 6:07 am #832444MiddlePathParticipant
Ok, I think I may as well post here my personal feelings about this.
Being the son of a child molestor, I of course was greatly hurt when everything became public. But I will GLADLY deal with my own pain rather than G-d forbid have my father still on the loose, which can ultimately cause so much more pain to so many more people. So the argument of “we need to protect the abuser’s family”, in my opinion, isn’t strong enough to cover anything up, and will only make things worse. The best thing that can be done is have it reported as soon as possible. And I AM part of an abuser’s family, and I still believe this.
Now, about rabbonim, in my personal situation, I think they did a good job of opening the community’s eyes to what my father was, but they really didn’t provide any help or support to my family. Do I hate them for this? No. I still respect them. Okay, so I think they could have done that part much better. But that in no way diminishes their greatness, or the respect I have for them. You can still respect someone even if you don’t agree with everything they do.November 30, 2011 7:15 am at 7:15 am #832445moi aussiMember
The aveira of the homosexual act is not at all relevant in this discussion. It would imply that molesting or raping girls is less severe.
Child abuse is not a religious transgression, like eating pork, or being mechalel Shabbes. Child abuse is a moral sin of the worst kind. Atheists and believers condemn it equally.November 30, 2011 12:21 pm at 12:21 pm #832447
If there was a Caterer in a Yeshiva with 10 kids and needed the Parnossa was suspected of cutting corners and serving non-kosher food and some knew about it because “He Needed the Parnassa” and later it was found out about it by many, There would be a ruckas raised over it. And what if the Rosh Yeshiva maybe heard the rumors that the caterer was cutting corners but chose to ignore them because he was a Baal Habatish person with 10 kids who needed the Parnassa.
Now after 10 years the truth is discovered that the caterer DID cut corners and served non-kosher food to the bocherim, Would such a Yeshiva be worth saving? everyone would be rightfully upset at the yeshiva and I doubt any would still try to pardon the offender.
And Sometimes when it comes to Kashruth some DO make accusations, maybe 5% of the accusations are true, but 95% are FALSE, but we say JUST IN CASE
So why when its an abuser do we feel like we need to coddle an abuser.
People speak about standards , standards of Kashrith, standards of Tzniut, etc, Why cant my standards be ZERO Tolerance of abusersNovember 30, 2011 3:35 pm at 3:35 pm #832448
well actually, if you want perspective, consider this. what would your reaction be if you found out that your ten year old son’s rebbi or menahel had beat him to within an inch of his life, breaking both of his arms, one of his legs, and bruising him over 60% of his body; would you call the police? would you storm down to the school and beat the living daylights out of him? i know i would…and you wouldnt spend time verifying your son’s story; his word alone would be enough to send you into a blinding rage against the monster who beat him.
whats ironic about this hypothetical situation is that the trauma of sexual abuse goes so much deeper and lasts for so much longer than a simple beating. bones an be mended, bruises clear up, and pride restored, but sexual abuse is an assault on so much more than the body-it is an assault on a person’s very soul. and this is a debate. how.November 30, 2011 3:39 pm at 3:39 pm #832449The little I knowParticipant
As some commenters noted, it is blasphemous to proclaim that the Agudah and rabbonim in general are dedicated to protect molesters or uninterested in the safety of children. What is most likely true is that the collective understanding about the problem is severely deficient. Much of the “protection” was done out of belief that the event did not happen, was being exaggerated, or even to protect the family or institution – not to destroy the child. I excuse none of this negligence. But what we read repeatedly are the baseless accusations by fanatics, and that (though perhaps misguidedly) fires up the Agudah establishment to point the finger at bloggers and information technology.
Over the past 2 years, there have been concerted efforts on the part of the gedolim of the Agudah to learn more about the problem from the victims themselves (yes, they have meet many times) and professionals. There has been massive progress within the Agudah to address the problem more responsibly, and no one can deny that. We can debate whether more progress is needed (I feel that there is much more to do). But the slinging of mud, name calling, accusations, and even the sarcasm (which is distasteful, not funny) is ineffective in bringing about change. Publicity won’t help anymore. There are constructive processes that have yielded progress and more of this is needed.
Regarding the “closed door” meeting at the Agudah Convention, which seems to have irritated some people, particularly the bloggers, what’s the problem? I feel that many more meetings should be closed to the public. Fact is that those who wished to get into this meeting were those who have an agenda, and every word said there would be fodder for ridicule and accusation. It was arranged for dialogue, not to issue marching orders. We have all watched the discussions in cyberspace get vitriolic when someone suggested anything other that what those fanatic activists want. And if someone chas veshalom discusses another topic – this only fires up these fanatics – “How can they discuss any other issue when children are being raped and destroyed?” Wake up – Klal Yisroel has many important issue, and abuse is one of them.
- The topic ‘Articel on NY Post Web-site on religious Jews child abuse’ is closed to new replies.