Fauci’s Fraudulent Fearmongering

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  • #1967718
    MadeAliyah
    Participant

    Dr. Fauci on why the vaccinated need to mask: “This is something that, as we get more information, it’s going to be pulling back that you won’t have to, But currently, the reason is that when you get vaccinated you are clearly diminishing dramatically your risk of getting infected…..”

    What he is saying is that he knows that the data will show that the vaccinated don’t need to mask, but until that data is publicized, he’ll make up excuses for his illogical recommendations.

    How does this pseudo-doctor still have any credibility?

    #1967734
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    MadeAliyah, why don’t you keep out of America. How do you have any credibility? What right do you have to question Dr. Fauci who saved thousands of lives? We are mechalel shabbos on sefek pikuach nefesh.

    #1967733
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Because the media gives him credibility

    If the media said up is down and down is up you would have people believing it

    #1967742
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    The vaccinated need masks to protect the unvaccinated.

    #1967749

    What right do you have to question Dr. Fauci who saved thousands of lives? where do you come up with this statistic? he owns a waffle house on changing opinions.

    #1967750
    jackk
    Participant

    The 80 year old Fauci has been serving the public health sector for over 50 years.
    He is a genius who has been able to help millions of people in his official capacity.
    Dr. Fauci attended medical school at Cornell University’s Medical College (now Weill Cornell Medicine) where he graduated first in his class with a Doctor of Medicine degree in 1966.

    Armchair pundits from the right who got a degree from Trump University are seriously outclassed and should be embarrassed.

    #1967754
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Reb eliezer proved my point

    #1967759
    Participant
    Participant

    “why don’t you keep out of America.”
    many Israelis read the yeshivaworld. is it exclusive for Americans?

    “Dr. Fauci who saved thousands of lives.”
    this is news to me? he used to have a worthwhile occupation? why didn’t he stay at it?

    #1967786
    MadeAliyah
    Participant

    >why don’t you keep out of America<

    Xenophobe.

    #1967790
    MadeAliyah
    Participant

    >He is a genius who has been able to help millions of people in his official capacity.
    Dr. Fauci attended medical school at Cornell University’s Medical College (now Weill Cornell Medicine) where he graduated first in his class with a Doctor of Medicine degree in 1966.<

    No. Just no. Fauci does not get to spew nonsense because he went to medical school or saved lives. A lie is a lie even if it was the Evil Orange Man or the Saintly Old White Man who said it.

    #1967836
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    I did not mean not use the CR but keep out from American affairs as I don’t know enough from Israeli affairs to criticize ir.

    #1967838
    bk613
    Participant

    “ The vaccinated need masks to protect the unvaccinated.”
    Assuming you are correct (to the best of my knowledge, there is no study saying vaccinated people do spread covid and more and more new data suggests they do not) How much longer do we say this? In NYC, as of last Friday, vaccines are available to anyone over 16 without an appointment. When do we say everyone who wants a vaccine had the opportunity to get one?
    The Government (CDC, Dr Fauci etc…) has changed its positions and walking back “good news” one time too many. It’s not unreasonable to be at least a little skeptical of their motives especially when there are doctors who are just as qualified as Dr Fauci offering different opinions.

    #1967840
    bk613
    Participant

    “ MadeAliyah, why don’t you keep out of America. How do you have any credibility? ”
    Assuming he made aliyah from the U.S he is still a citizen and just as entitled to criticize a member of the government as you are.

    #1967885
    RebAvrumi
    Participant

    Imagine you were America’s chief doctor during a once in a lifetime, completely unprecedented crisis with dozens of changing variables every day. New treatments, new surges, new variants, new vaccines, and so much more. how would you have done?? Some people are so quick to judge!!!!

    #1967905

    bk613: How much longer do we say this?

    CASE 1: assume you are one person (say an older one) with a vaccine in a group of unvaccinated (say, college or high-school students). Your chance of meeting a sick person is the same as before, but your risk ~ 10-20 lower than before the vaccine. If you remove mask and SD and start partying, you easily increase your risk back to the one that was before you had the vaccine.

    CASE 2: you and almost everyone in your environment is vaccinated (like in Israel now, not counting children). Then, transmission decreases in the whole group. Your chance to meet a sick person decreases (in Israel it is now 50x less cases than at peak 4 months ago) + your own 10x lower risk, this is making a difference.

    CASE 3: reality is somewhere in between if you live around many non-vaccinated people …

    and uncertain future given that the virus continues going thru millions of people worldwide and mutating on the way.

    but at the end the question is childish: some people are expecting some servants to tell them to take the masks of because they are inconvenienced. I think, it is more about a public emergency
    and what you can do to help. Not just you personally having a mask, but can you help an elderly person so that he does not need to go to a store, or organize young people so that they do not have to mix with hundreds of others, or shlep to another side of the world to learn. Such an easy opportunity to do so many mitzvos.

    #1967915
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    “If you remove mask and SD and start partying, you easily increase your risk back to the one that was before you had the vaccine. ”

    I can’t believe someone with a high school education can say this with a straight face.

    If having a vaccine leaves you in the same place as you were before you had the vaccine, then NOBODY WOULD BE NEEDING THE VACCINE

    #1967917
    Participant
    Participant

    rebavrami and aaq completely ignoring what op wrote 8in bold.

    #1967927

    Syag> If having a vaccine leaves you in the same place as you were before you had the vaccine

    Let my clarify – if you have vaccine that reduces risk 10x and at the same time increase your risk 10x by being less careful, all while everyone around stay the same – you did not change your risk, you simply enjoying partying with your friends.

    only when most people in your environment are all vaccinated, then there is a larger than 10x effect.

    participant> 8in bold
    I didn’t care about specific personalities, just the issues themselves.

    #1967926
    bk613
    Participant

    AAQ, I have no clue what you are talking about and I don’t think you do either. The vaccines are 94-95% effective and the CDC says a vaccinated person does not need to quarantine after being exposed to a Covid + person. There is also data showing that vaccinated people don’t spread covid and there is no reason to think they will.

    #1968058
    jackk
    Participant

    MadeAliya,

    It is embarrassing that you called Dr Fauci a fraud and that he is fearmongering.

    Have you ever been responsible for the lives of a country ?
    Have you ever been responsible for the response to a new virus which is killing millions of people?

    Dr Fauci has and he has been wildly successful in his career and he has won many awards due to his work.

    He has nothing to prove to anyone; especially not graduates of the Trump University’s solution of bleach .

    He knows better than you on everything about viruses in general and this virus in particular. He has all the data that he needs to make an informed decision as possible.

    The answer to all this is very simple. HE IS TRYING TO SAVE PEOPLE FROM GETTING SICK AND ALSO SAVE THEIR LIVES.

    There are 560,000 dead Americans already from this virus , with thousands STILL getting sick from the virus and dying weekly.

    He wants the number of sick from the virus to get down to zero, zilch, efes.

    He will not relax until we are well on the way to that happening without any surprising new strains.

    #1968061
    Yserbius123
    Participant

    The pro-death crowd, such as @MadeAliya, speak Dr. Fauci’s name like Chabadskers talk about Rav Shach ZT”L lehavdil.

    Both are incredibly important figures that have done a ton of work in helping the tzibbur and both have been the public faces of a series of opinions held by the vast majority of experts.

    Chabadskers choose to pick on Rav Shach ZT”L and deride his memory because it’s easier to attack a single man’s opinions than admit that he was far from alone in what he was saying.

    So too pro-deathers have Dr. Fauci as their target. It’s hard to admit that virtually every health professional and organization in the world has been saying the same things as Fauci (or at least when the argue, it’s only on small issues like double masking) and that you know better. It’s much easier to just pick one guy and call him a nut.

    #1968088
    huju
    Participant

    The problem with the opening post is not that he/she is not living in America. The problem is that he/she is … hmmmm, how can I put this politely … misinformed.

    #1968086
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Interesting how Florida and Texas ditched a mask mandate and have stadiums at full capacity and there’s no spike over there

    Nuff said

    #1968141
    Participant
    Participant

    what typical responses. op asked a very specific question and everyone responds that fauci is a huge tzaddik and how dare you question him. can anyone actually answer the question? it’s there idiotic reflex answers that make people so skeptical of mask wearers. when there are idiotic responses it’s natural to assume there’s nothing more than idiocy. sadly, although I do believe in mask wearing, it often is nothing more than mindless idiots wearing their identity muzzles.

    @huju is that post another expression of your hilarious satires? or did you actually mean it?

    #1968167
    Participant
    Participant

    @huju sorry I misread your post.

    but now that I mentioned it, which misinformation does he have? did Fauci not say that?

    #1968181
    Yserbius123
    Participant

    @Participant OP is cherry picking one quote by Dr. Fauci to try and deride him and his policies. Not only that, but he and other like minded individuals have a history of unhealthy mockery of healthcare proffesionals summed up by the phrase (and I quote) “Why should my comfort take precedence over your safety?”

    So it isn’t just about answering this “one question”. It’s addressing the whole insanity of regular Am Ha’aratzim who suddenly think they know better than every single doctor on the planet. Dr. Fauci may not always be right, but as the mouthpiece of the medical establishment, he’s certainly worth listening to.

    #1968200
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    Speaking of cherry picking one quote to deride…
    You take one stupid quote made by one person that NOBODY else agreed with and use it to portray a cause of “several like minded people”

    Honesty has never been much of a strength for you it seems. Is it even a priority? Or is this also part if your anti religious agenda.

    #1968207
    Participant
    Participant

    @yseribus
    I get it . you have to combat this dangerous and selfish behavior. but can you also answer the question? you said he “cherry picked”. was the quote taken out of context? misconstrued?

    also as far as listening to fauci, the mouthpiece of the cdc…to keep things short, the guy has been sitting at a desk for the past 4 decades and has an admitted history of lying. I can sympathize with anyone who doesn’t listen to him.

    lastly, the sentence you cherry picked to stereotype all anti-maskers as dangerous and selfish actually says the opposite.

    #1968219
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    The responses to the OP have been ad hominem, whataboutism, and appeal to authority.

    Nobody has actually refuted his point though.

    #1968225
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    can anyone actually answer the question?

    Apparently not.

    #1968223
    MadeAliyah
    Participant

    >CASE 1: assume you are one person (say an older one) with a vaccine in a group of unvaccinated (say, college or high-school students). Your chance of meeting a sick person is the same as before, but your risk ~ 10-20 lower than before the vaccine. If you remove mask and SD and start partying, you easily increase your risk back to the one that was before you had the vaccine.<

    @always-ask-questions are you seriously suggesting that masking and social distancing are as effective as getting vaccinated? Do you really believe that?

    #1968226
    MadeAliyah
    Participant

    > “Why should my comfort take precedence over your safety?”<

    Um… that sounds like a quote a pro-masker would say. (BTW, who said it?)

    #1968224
    MadeAliyah
    Participant

    >He knows better than you on everything about viruses in general and this virus in particular. He has all the data that he needs to make an informed decision as possible.<

    Exactly! So why is he ignoring the data and making up excuses for his policies?

    #1968250

    RebE > I don’t know enough from Israeli affairs to criticize ir.

    RebE, you are really muzzling all of us with your admirable attitude.

    #1968249

    MadeAliyah >> are you seriously suggesting that masking and social distancing are as effective as getting vaccinated

    yes, if you are the only one vaccinated in the same risky environment. Vaccine reduce risk by a factor of 10-20 (aka 90-95%). So, does keeping whole family out of public places. I am thinking, I was in unsafe places before COVID ~ 10 hour a day (work/shul/stores). Now, maybe 5 minutes total. That is 100x reduction(aka as 99%).

    now, you in Israel have, B’H better protection because everyone’s protection decreased overall infection level to 50x from the peak, and 10x from USA.

    I posted several posts about this, I need to add some caveats to the analysis:

    1. When we say 95% protection, need to differentiate – protection from any infection, from transmission, from serious sickness, from death. For early Wuhan virus or from British etc variants; may change with vaccine type and time passing after vaccine.

    2. Not clear to me, what 95% protection means – is it 95% of people 100% protected and 5% unprotected due to weak immune response, or is it 100% of people at 20x strength – that is 20x more virus load is required for the same sickness level? probably, something in between. maybe, doing an antibody test can show how much/less careful a person needs to be after the vaccine

    3. when we talk averages, these are your “local average” of people around you. If you surrounded by older people (Florida?) with 90% vaccinations, you are seeing this effect even if whole country is at 10%. Conversely, if you are surrounded by 15-40 y.o. who are least in vaccination and highest in transmission, then you can be still in danger despite your own vaccine

    #1968240

    bk613> AAQ, I have no clue what you are talking about – 95% effective …

    sorry for short-hand …

    I took it conservatively as 90% (depending on what the protection is for, level of uncertainty of the “95%” estimate, and lower numbers for variants). 90% is exactly 10x lower risk. Phase 3 was run blinded, that is people with or without vaccine are presumed to behave the same. That is 90% – under assumption of the same behavior. If a person after the vaccine has 10x more interaction with
    potentially effected people, he has similar exposure to what he had before the vaccine with less interaction.

    BUT WHEN most people around him also get vaccinated and reduce transmission, as you rightly say, THEN there will be a MUCH lower risk of meeting someone with COVID, thus leading to a VERY LOW risk overall.

    So, there are 2 questions: personal vaccine/interaction status and PREVALENCE around you (infected, not necessarily sick or dead). For the 2nd one, you can look up numbers for your country/state/city and see where they are.

    Current daily new cases per mln (source ourworldindata)
    US 175, (was 750 in January)
    Israel – 16 (was 950), UK 36 (was 880)
    Germany 260 (was 300 max), France 440 (650), Sweden 540 (740)

    You see that US left the European group but did not arrive to Israeli/UK level…
    Interestingly, US line drops parallel to UK and Israel, but then got stuck at current level from early February while the other two dropped down further. Suggestive of the O’Biden effect…

    #1968269
    Yserbius123
    Participant

    Sorry all, I misquoted. Someone on this thread made a comment on another thread saying something along the lines of “Why should I sacrifice my comfort for your safety?”. The individual knows who they are.

    That may be a quote by a single person, but it’s that mindset that the pro-death crowd has. Masks are “uncomfortable”, social distancing is “difficult”, vaccines give me a “headache”.

    As to answer the original question, “How does this pseudo-doctor have any credibility?” I don’t believe there’s much to answer over here. The wording of the question is already showing a massive bias and outright hatred towards medical professionals who (as I’ve said before) are almost in lock-step with the CDC and Fauci. Furthermore, all they are really saying is that we shouldn’t drop our guard and keep masking even when vaccinated until the data shows a dramatic decrease in cases.

    I don’t need to answer the question, I reject its assumptions outright.

    #1968273
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    Well, since there are no pro death posters, I guess you too can be rejected outright.

    #1968283
    MadeAliyah
    Participant

    >I don’t need to answer the question, I reject its assumptions outright.<

    Okay, thanks for dropping in, See you later.

    #1968286
    MadeAliyah
    Participant

    Oh wait @yserbius123, before you go because I am “cherry picking one quote by Dr. Fauci”, I’ll give you another one:
    Dr. Fauci claimed that double masking is “common sense” a year into the pandemic. So for a full year Fauci had no common sense.

    How does this doctor still have any credibility?

    #1968425
    Yserbius123
    Participant

    @MadeAliya

    Found it

    https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/anti-face-mask-ywncr/page/2#post-1930828

    How can anybody demand that people should wear a mask to protect others?

    “How can anyone demand that people should drive the speed limit to protect others? How can anyone demand that people should stay inside when the have the flu to protect others? How can anyone demand that people should put fences around construction to protect others?”

    If this is your mindset then I don’t see how any conversation with you can possibly be productive.

    #1968546
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    “How can anyone demand that people should drive the speed limit to protect others? How can anyone demand that people should stay inside when the have the flu to protect others? How can anyone demand that people should put fences around construction to protect others?”

    Um, it doesn’t say that in that post. Is that your way of twisting his words as you’ve been doing to others’?

    #1968587
    MadeAliyah
    Participant

    @yserbius123, I am truly shocked by your dishonesty. You agreed with with that statement! You agreed that masks should not be demanded for the flu even if it protects others! In fact you went so far as to say, and I quote:

    while every life is precious, there is a cheshbon to be made as to what an individual’s responsibility is in saving lives

    So you called me pro-death, a hater of medical professionals, an Am Ha’aretz, a cherry picker and a Chabadsker, all because of a quote that you agreed with!

    It is this kind of dishonesty in the name of science that breeds anti-vaxxers and conspiracy theorists, and Dr. Fauci spews it anyway.

    #1968623
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    The CDC has radio ads that say mask up and social distance until you get the shot

    #1968823
    CHOOSID
    Participant

    A PIECE OF KUGEL A DAY KEEPS THE DOCTOR AWAY!!
    -Me.
    More then 1 piece cant hurt.

    #1968879
    rightwriter
    Participant

    Rev eliezer, fauci saved millions of lives? How exactly! By telling everyone to NOT wear a mask in the beginning of the pandemic since “it is useless” “it will not protect you” and “especially if you are not sick you have no need to wear it”. And then admitting he lied about it so that medical staff can stock up on those useless surgical masks?

    Wow what world some people live in. You don’t need to be conservative or republican but at least don’t be such a foolish liberal sheep smiling all the way to the slaughterhouse just because they told you it’s good for you!

    #1969028
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Dr. Fauci’s views evolve as more scientific knowledge comes to light.

    #1969050
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    “Dr. Fauci’s views evolve as more scientific knowledge comes to light.”

    So CDC now says that people who are vaccinated can be in a room together with other vaccinated people with NO masks and NO social distancing.

    That is a fact you can look up yourself.

    Since that is the new CDC ruling, why is Biden allowing only 200 some people at the state of the union address, stating it is because of COVID?

    (I will deliberately refrain from bringing up that democrats who were COVID POSITIVE showed up for the impeachment trial because I don’t want to distract you from a simple, honest, to the point answer to the above question)

    #1969055
    Yserbius123
    Participant

    @madealiyah I absolutely did not agree with that statement as you can see yourself by my next comment in that very thread. The discussion about the flu was you comparing apples to oranges and accusing me of being as callous and uncaring as you are. The truth is, to protect others from the flu you don’t need to wear a mask all the time. You just have to be careful not to go out in public with a fever, or to be extra careful when the flu is going around. Unfortunately, COVID is much more contagious so that’s not good enough. You have to wear a mask.

    Your statement shows your true intentions. You are inconvenienced by being forced to wear a mask. Kal V’Chomer you are inconvenienced by lockdowns, no minyamin, washing hands, etc. The only possible maskono is that you care more about your own convenience than the lives of others. Therefore, pro-death.

    @syag-lchochma

    why is Biden allowing only 200 some people at the state of the union address, stating it is because of COVID?

    What does Shmittah have to do with Parshas Har Sinai? Biden loves putting on a show about how careful he is about COVID (l’afukei the last president who didn’t give to hoots about how many people it killed) and when he has to do something public, he goes above and beyond recommendations and guidelines. Obviously, in private he has no qualms about violating his own rules. You can’t bring a raya from what Biden does to what people are supposed to be doing. Just listen to your doctor and listen to the CDC.

    #1969061
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    Reb E – hoping you will answer my question

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