- This topic has 565 replies, 30 voices, and was last updated 1 day, 7 hours ago by .
-
Posts
-
“The only person in habad who kept to this mesora, the rosh yeshiva in torah vada’at in brooklyn, was murdered in his own home….”
“Those redifot had as a direct result that the RY died in his home.
After the RY’s petira, the rebbi of habad publicly disavowed any responsibility for the RY’s demise”This is a blood libel. I will respond, not to Yankel, but to set the record straight for others who may read this:
A Lubavitcher bochur was angry at Rabbi Rivkin and took matters into his own hands. He made a scary phone call to Rabbi Rivkin’s son-in-law and stuffed his lock with woodchips.
The son-in-law, a long-time opponent of Lubavitch, wrote a news story claiming that Lubavitch has a “terror brigade” to enforce what the Rebbe wants.
Afterward, the Rebbe spoke publicly and completely disavowed the bochur’s actions, stating clearly that he went against everything Lubavitch stands for and does not represent the Rebbe in any way. The Rebbe also criticized the article’s author for blaming an entire community for the actions of an individual.
The Forward then retracted the article and apologized for blaming Lubavitch for the vandalism.
That was the end of the incident.
The sicha is recorded (you can listen to it). It took place in Shevat 5735.
Rabbi Rivkin passed away at 84, two years after the incident, and the Rebbe came out to participate in the levaya.
Could you answer the following please –
Is it true that rabbi Rivkin’s ashkavte devei rebbi is not considered ‘acceptable reading material’ in habad mosdot ? Y or N ?
Is it true that rabbi rivkin was niftar after falling from the stairs in his own home as a result of the redifot he suffered because he declined to join your maham shilo in putting this politician in herem ? Y or N ?
After you answer – honestly of course – should we talk about blood libels …..
.
.Btw. — you totally ignored the substance of my post …….
.
.Menachem ignored the main thrust of my post.
I clearly wrote there that we should not use this story to throw mud.
—
A repost of my post
We should not use this story to throw mud.
We should however learn from this about the possibility within habad of someone implying that the leader of habad could be mistaken .
This RY implied it and ended up paying with his life.
The RY obviously held the rebbi from habad in high esteem .
Otherwise he would not be his hasid and attend all those public events with his rebbi.
Nevertheless , as a talmid haham who was higi’a lehora’a , in his opinion at least , said politician was not deserving to be put in herem .
He was not disrespectful.
He just held that his rebbi happened to be mistaken in this one instance , which is perfectly acceptable according to Jewish halacha and tradition.
So he abstained from the herem.
.
.
.
.First Menachem might be ‘too busy’ to answer.
Or ‘not in the mood’.
Then he seems to be a serial victim, nebach.
He might be ‘offended’.
Or the victim of ‘blood libels’.
He has all the specific answers at the ready – to all the specific questions.
Thats beyond doubt.
That goes without saying.
Just one problem . For some mysterious reason he is not sharing them with us.
That mysterious reason has nothing to do with the ‘palatability’ of his ‘secret’ , but ready and available answers ….
.
.“He fell down the stairs after suffering redifos”
Is this a serious statement??
You sound like the democrats who say that 6 or so officers were killed on Jan 6 because one of them suffered a stroke a month later and one of them had a blood clot etc.It actually seems like you were being dishonest when you made it sound like someone murdered the rabbi in his home but when confronted about it, more details emerge that seems to paint a different picture, so I don’t think it’s a problem for Menachem to get offended and call it a blood libel…
Is it true that rabbi Rivkin’s ashkavte devei rebbi is not considered ‘acceptable reading material’ in habad mosdot ?
Y or N ?
.Is it true that rabbi Rivkin’s ashkavte devei rebbi is not considered ‘acceptable reading material’ in habad mosdot ?
Y or N ?
Completely false. All my years in yeshiva, never heard of such a thing. Ashkavta D’Rebbi is considered one of the most respected seforim on Chabad rabbeim, quoted many hundreds of times in Chabad seforim for history and minhagim. I’ve never heard of any objection to it.
You are missing the point.
We are not taking part in a blame game – habad are bad because they murdered the RY.
Thats not the point at all.
The point is that sof kol sof the RY paid with his life for the mere fact that he respectfully proclaimed in front of everyone that in his learned opinion the rebbi of the habad hasidim is fallible and can make a mistake.
Which serves as an example and clear message for anyone else possibly entertaining similar thoughts.
Which explains very well why no one in habad itself , ever since, dared to voice any support to the possibility their leader making a mistake.
As was and still is practised in all other ‘normal’ communities , all around the globe.
Even when the evidence and plain logic overwhelmingly point to the other direction.
.
.
—-
I simply cannot understand why no one engages with the substance of the argument …All they do , is , commenting as if the substance is not there at all, or is something else altogether ….
.
.That wasn’t really the point as mentioned .
Just for the record .
His death was a sudden and DIRECT RESULT of the redifot.
The person doing it would probably be classified as a rotseach begrama.
But , again , that was and is not the point here.
.
.hello ?
menachem to yb:
Is it true that rabbi Rivkin’s ashkavte devei rebbi is not considered ‘acceptable reading material’ in habad mosdot ?
Y or N ?
—
Completely false. All my years in yeshiva, never heard of such a thing. Ashkavta D’Rebbi is considered one of the most respected seforim on Chabad rabbeim, quoted many hundreds of times in Chabad seforim for history and minhagim. I’ve never heard of any objection to it.=================
All of menachems years in yeshiva ….. .
Were menachems years in yeshiva before , or after the ‘herem story’ ?
We do not know menachems age, so it could be that his yeshiva years were before the RY’s disagreement with his rebbi.
According the habad sources I have consulted , the sefer ashkavte d’Rebbi is now on the same level as Rav Shaul Shimon Deutchs multi volume biography about the late rebbi of the habad.
Meaning they both are classified as ‘non allowable’ reading materiel.
.
.Why is menachem only answering selected posts ?
Why is he ignoring certain ones and responding to others ?
Is it only depending on ‘his mood’ at the time ?
Or does it also have to do with the content – and whether or not a palatable response is available ?
Will we merit to receive an honest response on this one ?
Hope so ….
.
.According the habad sources I have consulted , the sefer ashkavte d’Rebbi is now on the same level as Rav Shaul Shimon Deutchs multi volume biography about the late rebbi of the habad.
Meaning they both are classified as ‘non allowable’ reading materiel.
Absolute nonsense, as I pointed out in my last post.
His death was a sudden and DIRECT RESULT of the redifot.
The person doing it would probably be classified as a rotseach begrama.He passed away two years after the harassment by an individual.
What is your source for your murder accusation? Is it the same source as the nonsense about Ashkavta D’Rebbi being banned from Chabad, while every Chabad minhagim sefer printed in the last 50 years quotes it *hundreds* of times, and it’s often quoted in yeshivos to this day as one of the most respected seforim on Chabad hostory? The Chabad magazine “א חסידישער דערהער” ran a feature on the sefer. Parts have been translated to English by Chabad yeshivos.
I will answer your question , although you do not answer mine [besides the convenient ones]
Nor do you respond to my arguments [again, besides the ones convenient for you]
.I hear this from a trustworthy and honest habad friend of mine.
Some twenty years ago.
.Bottom line – even according to your version –
1] did the RY suffer redifot as a result of his inaction to support his rebbi ? Yes or No ?
2] Did the RY disagree with your rebbi in a disrespectful manner ? Yes or No ?
3] Is it true that rebbi / talmid disagreements are valid and can be found in gemara rishonim poskim and aharonim all thru jewish history ? Y or N ?
4] Can you – for honesty’s sake – snap out of your “busy/ offended/ not in the mood/blood libel [etc]” state, and finally provide ‘to the point answers’ to my questions ?
.
.Nu , Menachem ?
.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.