October 16, 2011 5:06 am at 5:06 am #599961DerechMember
Have they left the reservation?October 16, 2011 6:14 am at 6:14 am #820024
Lubavitch have reservations sometimes. Other times they walk in and hope there are open tables.October 16, 2011 6:53 am at 6:53 am #820025
While I do not know if Lubavitch has any shluchim on Native American reservations yet, I know of more than one shaliach who has helped victims of gambling addiction who frequent the casinos on these reservations.October 16, 2011 8:10 am at 8:10 am #820026YW Moderator-42Moderator
I had reservations about this thread but it seems to have turned out ok so far…October 16, 2011 8:13 am at 8:13 am #820027yossi z.Member
My great uncle converted a whole inca tribe in south america …
😀 Zuberman! 😀October 16, 2011 8:18 am at 8:18 am #820028YW Moderator-42Moderator
I heard that the University of Illinois wanted to change the name of the Fighting Illini to The Fighting Lubobs, but was rejected because the Chumash Indian Tribe was offended.October 16, 2011 8:54 am at 8:54 am #820029
there’s a street in tzfas called in hebrew harebbe milubavitch shlita and underneath in english king moshiach shlita. i think its the funniest thing ive ever seen.October 16, 2011 11:58 am at 11:58 am #820030minyan galMember
Toi, if many American cities can have streets named Martin Luther King, why shouldn’t Israel have one named Messiah King?October 16, 2011 12:59 pm at 12:59 pm #820031
Cuz neither was his name king, nor is the moshiach a king.October 16, 2011 3:09 pm at 3:09 pm #820032Sam2Participant
Mashiach is very much a king.October 16, 2011 3:31 pm at 3:31 pm #820033
Mod-42: Sez you. Imagine if somebody said something analogous to Kilobear’s comment about the drug problem in Lakewood. Would it still “have turned out ok so far”?October 16, 2011 4:36 pm at 4:36 pm #820034
why do you not see the humor in it?October 16, 2011 5:07 pm at 5:07 pm #820035amusedParticipant
What about what Rav Shach zt”l said?October 16, 2011 7:28 pm at 7:28 pm #820036oyveykidsthesedaysMember
2scents: The Rambam says the Moshiach will be a king. (Hilchos Melech HaMoshiach.)October 16, 2011 7:44 pm at 7:44 pm #820037
Actually, at Lubavitch you almost never need to make reservations for Shabbos, and even on Pesach you won’t get thrown out if you just come on in.
As for the street sign, those are the lunatic fringe. I have a feeling, knowing those characters as I do, that the sign is unofficial but that no one dares take it down. The city council has a Chabad presence, as Chabad took over a lot of former slum property and turned the former no-go zone called “Shikun Canaan” into a mokom Torah. The street was probably named that when the Rebbe was with us (or just named Harabbi meLubavitch even afterward as we have streets called Haadmour me (insert) for Rebbes who have left us). The loonies probably made and installed their own sign; I’d have to see a picture to know for sure.
These yellow flag goons are like the Petzuei haNachal of Breslov or the NK – a bunch of ex-cons and druggies with a ShaBaK agent or 2 thrown in to egg them on (the ShaBaK shtinker in Tzfas is Meir Baranes, who ran over and shortened the life of the very mainstream Chabad chief rabbi of Tzfas Rav Bistritzky AH and served only a few months in a mental institution. When released, he organized a pulsa denura in the Tzfas beis hachaim, which is a mokom koidesh, for Pope John Paul II who was mechasidei umois haoilam. He is clearly a protected species, and you don’t want to risk being the next one he runs over.)October 16, 2011 8:36 pm at 8:36 pm #820038ronrsrMember
In the first half of the last century, they were been active in promoting education on Indian reservations. One of their more successful stories is of a young lad whom they sent to school and he became an electrician. He returned to his home, and asked the elders what he could do for the community. They thought that it would be good if he put electric lighting in the outhouses.
Thus, he became the first person to wire a head for a reservation.October 16, 2011 9:18 pm at 9:18 pm #820039
Moshiach is a king, an earthly avatar of Hashem’s reign.
How did Derech go from wondering about becoming frum to wondering if Lubavitch is no longer frum, in 5 minutes?October 16, 2011 10:45 pm at 10:45 pm #820040
600 thingy person- its not a fringe movement. ive ben to crown heights. ive been to yerushalayim. ive been in central new york. ive been in canada. theyre everywhere. why dont the reg. lubobs take down all the mnoshiach propaganda. all the yellw baruch habba signs, and the flags being waved at their simchas beis. and everywhere? because they agree. its not a fringe movement. its the whoe movement.October 16, 2011 11:00 pm at 11:00 pm #820041
Reb Ber: Why bring up the lunatics? Let’s talk about the relatively sane messianists first.October 17, 2011 12:53 am at 12:53 am #820042
ItcheSrulik, what does Lakewood have to do with it? My friends are shluchim in a very well-known gambling town and while they have bailed out and tried to straighten out an occasional oisvorf (OTD or outwardly frum) from our world, most of the people they’ve helped with such issues are frei. I assume their colleagues who are near reservations where gambling is legal often help addicts or those who went in over their heads as well.October 17, 2011 1:20 am at 1:20 am #820043
Because you can’t deal with crazies. The leadership of Chabad is in a court battle to get control of 770 and clean it up, but the issues are so convoluted that they’ll never win. People like me don’t set foot in 770 anymore. I left NY altogether, but when I lived there, I must have gone to 770 twice in 2 years (for simchas) after my first bad experience there.
Look at the pics of the Chabad Simchas Beis haShoeiva in CH this year. No flags. Last time I went, which was about 6 years ago, the meshuggeners took out their flags and were ignored. The die-hards are crazy and no one risks their lives being beaten up for the sake of getting a looney to put a flag away.
The strategy by and large is to let local yellow flag guys burn out, which they do eventually. A kid who waved a flag at 16 goes out on shlichus at 18 and knows no one wants to see his flag, so he stops believing in it once he gets used to not waving it.
EY and Israelis abroad (the source of most of the problem outside EY) are a different story. The medine has created such a social, political and moral mess that lunatics of all sorts rule the roost as people look to them to escape the mess that the zionists and worse yet, the post-zionists, have made of EY.
Yellow flag, NaNach, NK, phony mekubalim, neo-Carlebach, very strange mystical movements among the settlers, even Elior Chen and burqas – and many non-Jewish ‘spiritual movements’ – all a radical response to the malaise of secular EY. Wrong answer to a very real problem.October 17, 2011 2:15 am at 2:15 am #820044gefenParticipant
The point of starting this thread was what?October 17, 2011 2:36 am at 2:36 am #820045
Reb Ber: My point was that airing Chabad’s dirty laundry (which you did in a pretty tactful way, and I know to be accurate) is OK with 42. I was asking if similar treatment of lakewood would also be.October 17, 2011 3:12 am at 3:12 am #820046Dr. SeussMember
Lakewood doesn’t have any serious dirty laundry.October 17, 2011 3:22 am at 3:22 am #820047good.jewMember
Did anyone wonder why Popa did not join this controversial topic? He seems to join every other oneOctober 17, 2011 7:28 am at 7:28 am #820048
yay itch- so typical. lets air everyone elses dirty laundry. but most assuredly modern orthodoxy and all its affiliates are virtually untarnishable.October 17, 2011 7:30 am at 7:30 am #820049
lets talk about the drug problem in modern orthodox teenage circles. no im not being crazy. its not lakewood, its NOT MO, its not chassidish-its teenagers. many are using. addiction doesnt discriminate according to hashkafa.October 17, 2011 8:07 am at 8:07 am #820050welldressed007Participant
Is this a new brand of Yiddishkyte? It sounds pretty close?October 17, 2011 2:09 pm at 2:09 pm #820051
Don’t know how you can bash an entire community like that.
Only cuz your not a lubob and were not born into a lubob family doesn’t give you the slightest right to mock them.
Just go on and live your life!October 17, 2011 2:44 pm at 2:44 pm #820052Derech HaMelechMember
How did Derech go from wondering about becoming frum to wondering if Lubavitch is no longer frum, in 5 minutes?
I was wondering the same thing.October 17, 2011 2:47 pm at 2:47 pm #820053
Wikipedia has a great summary of all the shitos on Lubavitch, ayein sham. You are sure to find one by a gadol you like.
The purpose of this thread is like any other here in the CR- allow people to spew their thoughts and feel like they accomplished something, thereby creating sticky content, causing people to click on ad links, thereby generating income for the website owner. The more controversial, the stickier the content. And thus the sausage is made. Sorry for breaking the 4th wall again.October 17, 2011 3:14 pm at 3:14 pm #820054popa_bar_abbaParticipant
And thus the sausage is made.
I like sausage. I have one hanging in my closet from Romanian. Wife won’t let me hang it in the kitchen- I know who isn’t getting any.October 17, 2011 3:28 pm at 3:28 pm #820055yichusdikParticipant
Wow, 600 kilo, the tziyonim are responsible for meshichist extremists now? What else? New Coke? The Roswell coverup? Global Warming?October 17, 2011 4:22 pm at 4:22 pm #820056
2scents- actually my wife was lubovitch but they chapped how wacko it was and got out. i HAVE the inside scoop.October 17, 2011 4:44 pm at 4:44 pm #820057twistedParticipant
I am both close to, and very far, from Chabad. In times past, there was near universal lomdus among them, and now the average yankel goes through the Dvar Hamalchus ( a chabad sort of chok leyisrael with heavy Ramban content) weekly, and so is not an am hooretz. In public speaking though, there is nearly nothing other than the Rebbe’s Torah. That is a tragedy.October 17, 2011 5:08 pm at 5:08 pm #820058
Toi, I will admit that I have no inside info on lubavitch. However some of the people from Lubavitch I met, seemed like nice people.
I am against bashing an entire community. Each community has its faults.October 17, 2011 5:17 pm at 5:17 pm #820059
twisted-tragedy that theres not more, or that it exists at all?October 17, 2011 5:20 pm at 5:20 pm #820060
The tragedy isn’t so much ignorance as much as avoda zarah.October 17, 2011 5:58 pm at 5:58 pm #820061
wow jothar i like youOctober 17, 2011 5:59 pm at 5:59 pm #820062
2scents. you have to know what it means to ” be agianst bashing an entire community” if they are 96% wackos. in an ir hanidachas they all go down.October 17, 2011 6:40 pm at 6:40 pm #820063Bar ShattyaMember
did you ever read “identifying chabad”? I wonder if I wrote it. Hard to remember the things I do sometimes.October 17, 2011 6:48 pm at 6:48 pm #820064bptParticipant
I was in CH yesterday. If there is one complaint I have, its that not enough of the people I stopped spoke English.
Other than that, they are among the funnest bunch to hang with. Where else in Bklyn can you find a party at 1:00am? And a fabreng at each block?
C’mon folks. Stop with the hate and let a little ahavas yisroel into your heartsOctober 17, 2011 7:16 pm at 7:16 pm #820065
yay drunk people means theyre good. warped.October 17, 2011 7:26 pm at 7:26 pm #820066twistedParticipant
Toi, that there is nothing else. The torah literature is a wondrous and vast garden. They are practicing monoculture, and it is bad news for plants, and probably for Jews as well.
Jothar, me, being small potatoes, I call it karov laavodah zara. I once asked my Rosh, “IF you regard messianics and followers of a dead messiah as akin to christians, should we not eat from their shechitah? He answered “Yes”.October 17, 2011 7:39 pm at 7:39 pm #820067
Swipe from http://www.identifyingchabad.org
A Note On Hatred.
We have long noted how Lubavitchers often respond to even the mildest and most balanced criticism with the charge of sinas chinum. This is true no matter how objective or even friendly is the tone of any letter or book on the subject. This is also true regardless of the lack of any evidence of actual bad feeling. It has unfortunately become utterly predictable that the principle reactions to any suggestion that there might be some problems in Chabad ideology or practice consist of deeply emotional (and often incoherent) accusations of personal hatred and venom.
This is a real shame because it makes it virtually impossible for anyone to engage in intelligent and productive dialogue on the issues that really matter.October 17, 2011 7:40 pm at 7:40 pm #820068cherrybimParticipant
Is lubavitch the only group of Chasidim today that do not wear payos or shtrimel?October 17, 2011 8:21 pm at 8:21 pm #820069
When a mainstream leader can come out and say “The Rebbe runs the world!” (As opposed to Hashem) and nobody within the movement has an issue with it, it shows a deep problem. This is the point Derech was trying to goad someone into making, So I’ll do him the favor and make it.October 17, 2011 8:47 pm at 8:47 pm #820070✡onegoal™Participant
Quote from a talmid chacham: “They are the closest religion to Judaism.”
There is a lubavitch fellow at the shul I daven at who insists on saying yichie adoneinu every day even though he has been asked to stop many times by the gaboim and the rav, and was even kicked out of the shul, but still comes back and insists on saying it. What is his point?October 17, 2011 9:28 pm at 9:28 pm #820071
Yes. In EY, disaffected young people turn to very extreme forms of “tshuva” more as a rebellion against the emptiness of the mess the tzioinim made than out of real belief. Some have been through drugs, Eastern cults etc and this is just another try to find a place in the world.
They develop the belief later, but usually it starts with a desire to escape. And what they are escaping is the sickness of secular “Israeli” society.October 17, 2011 10:18 pm at 10:18 pm #820072
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