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  • #599961
    Derech
    Member

    Have they left the reservation?

    #820024
    Jothar
    Member

    Lubavitch have reservations sometimes. Other times they walk in and hope there are open tables.

    #820025

    While I do not know if Lubavitch has any shluchim on Native American reservations yet, I know of more than one shaliach who has helped victims of gambling addiction who frequent the casinos on these reservations.

    #820026
    YW Moderator-42
    Moderator

    I had reservations about this thread but it seems to have turned out ok so far…

    #820027
    yossi z.
    Member

    My great uncle converted a whole inca tribe in south america …

    😀 Zuberman! 😀

    #820028
    YW Moderator-42
    Moderator

    I heard that the University of Illinois wanted to change the name of the Fighting Illini to The Fighting Lubobs, but was rejected because the Chumash Indian Tribe was offended.

    #820029
    Toi
    Participant

    there’s a street in tzfas called in hebrew harebbe milubavitch shlita and underneath in english king moshiach shlita. i think its the funniest thing ive ever seen.

    #820030
    minyan gal
    Member

    Toi, if many American cities can have streets named Martin Luther King, why shouldn’t Israel have one named Messiah King?

    #820031
    2scents
    Participant

    Cuz neither was his name king, nor is the moshiach a king.

    #820032
    Sam2
    Participant

    Mashiach is very much a king.

    #820033
    ItcheSrulik
    Member

    Mod-42: Sez you. Imagine if somebody said something analogous to Kilobear’s comment about the drug problem in Lakewood. Would it still “have turned out ok so far”?

    #820034
    Toi
    Participant

    why do you not see the humor in it?

    #820035
    amused
    Participant

    What about what Rav Shach zt”l said?

    #820036

    2scents: The Rambam says the Moshiach will be a king. (Hilchos Melech HaMoshiach.)

    #820037

    Actually, at Lubavitch you almost never need to make reservations for Shabbos, and even on Pesach you won’t get thrown out if you just come on in.

    As for the street sign, those are the lunatic fringe. I have a feeling, knowing those characters as I do, that the sign is unofficial but that no one dares take it down. The city council has a Chabad presence, as Chabad took over a lot of former slum property and turned the former no-go zone called “Shikun Canaan” into a mokom Torah. The street was probably named that when the Rebbe was with us (or just named Harabbi meLubavitch even afterward as we have streets called Haadmour me (insert) for Rebbes who have left us). The loonies probably made and installed their own sign; I’d have to see a picture to know for sure.

    These yellow flag goons are like the Petzuei haNachal of Breslov or the NK – a bunch of ex-cons and druggies with a ShaBaK agent or 2 thrown in to egg them on (the ShaBaK shtinker in Tzfas is Meir Baranes, who ran over and shortened the life of the very mainstream Chabad chief rabbi of Tzfas Rav Bistritzky AH and served only a few months in a mental institution. When released, he organized a pulsa denura in the Tzfas beis hachaim, which is a mokom koidesh, for Pope John Paul II who was mechasidei umois haoilam. He is clearly a protected species, and you don’t want to risk being the next one he runs over.)

    #820038
    ronrsr
    Member

    In the first half of the last century, they were been active in promoting education on Indian reservations. One of their more successful stories is of a young lad whom they sent to school and he became an electrician. He returned to his home, and asked the elders what he could do for the community. They thought that it would be good if he put electric lighting in the outhouses.

    Thus, he became the first person to wire a head for a reservation.

    #820039
    Jothar
    Member

    Moshiach is a king, an earthly avatar of Hashem’s reign.

    How did Derech go from wondering about becoming frum to wondering if Lubavitch is no longer frum, in 5 minutes?

    #820040
    Toi
    Participant

    600 thingy person- its not a fringe movement. ive ben to crown heights. ive been to yerushalayim. ive been in central new york. ive been in canada. theyre everywhere. why dont the reg. lubobs take down all the mnoshiach propaganda. all the yellw baruch habba signs, and the flags being waved at their simchas beis. and everywhere? because they agree. its not a fringe movement. its the whoe movement.

    #820041
    ItcheSrulik
    Member

    Reb Ber: Why bring up the lunatics? Let’s talk about the relatively sane messianists first.

    #820042

    ItcheSrulik, what does Lakewood have to do with it? My friends are shluchim in a very well-known gambling town and while they have bailed out and tried to straighten out an occasional oisvorf (OTD or outwardly frum) from our world, most of the people they’ve helped with such issues are frei. I assume their colleagues who are near reservations where gambling is legal often help addicts or those who went in over their heads as well.

    #820043

    Because you can’t deal with crazies. The leadership of Chabad is in a court battle to get control of 770 and clean it up, but the issues are so convoluted that they’ll never win. People like me don’t set foot in 770 anymore. I left NY altogether, but when I lived there, I must have gone to 770 twice in 2 years (for simchas) after my first bad experience there.

    Look at the pics of the Chabad Simchas Beis haShoeiva in CH this year. No flags. Last time I went, which was about 6 years ago, the meshuggeners took out their flags and were ignored. The die-hards are crazy and no one risks their lives being beaten up for the sake of getting a looney to put a flag away.

    The strategy by and large is to let local yellow flag guys burn out, which they do eventually. A kid who waved a flag at 16 goes out on shlichus at 18 and knows no one wants to see his flag, so he stops believing in it once he gets used to not waving it.

    EY and Israelis abroad (the source of most of the problem outside EY) are a different story. The medine has created such a social, political and moral mess that lunatics of all sorts rule the roost as people look to them to escape the mess that the zionists and worse yet, the post-zionists, have made of EY.

    Yellow flag, NaNach, NK, phony mekubalim, neo-Carlebach, very strange mystical movements among the settlers, even Elior Chen and burqas – and many non-Jewish ‘spiritual movements’ – all a radical response to the malaise of secular EY. Wrong answer to a very real problem.

    #820044
    gefen
    Participant

    The point of starting this thread was what?

    #820045
    ItcheSrulik
    Member

    Reb Ber: My point was that airing Chabad’s dirty laundry (which you did in a pretty tactful way, and I know to be accurate) is OK with 42. I was asking if similar treatment of lakewood would also be.

    #820046
    Dr. Seuss
    Member

    Lakewood doesn’t have any serious dirty laundry.

    #820047
    good.jew
    Member

    Did anyone wonder why Popa did not join this controversial topic? He seems to join every other one

    #820048
    Toi
    Participant

    yay itch- so typical. lets air everyone elses dirty laundry. but most assuredly modern orthodoxy and all its affiliates are virtually untarnishable.

    #820049
    Toi
    Participant

    lets talk about the drug problem in modern orthodox teenage circles. no im not being crazy. its not lakewood, its NOT MO, its not chassidish-its teenagers. many are using. addiction doesnt discriminate according to hashkafa.

    #820050
    welldressed007
    Participant

    Is this a new brand of Yiddishkyte? It sounds pretty close?

    #820051
    2scents
    Participant

    Don’t know how you can bash an entire community like that.

    Only cuz your not a lubob and were not born into a lubob family doesn’t give you the slightest right to mock them.

    Just go on and live your life!

    #820052

    How did Derech go from wondering about becoming frum to wondering if Lubavitch is no longer frum, in 5 minutes?

    I was wondering the same thing.

    #820053
    Jothar
    Member

    Wikipedia has a great summary of all the shitos on Lubavitch, ayein sham. You are sure to find one by a gadol you like.

    The purpose of this thread is like any other here in the CR- allow people to spew their thoughts and feel like they accomplished something, thereby creating sticky content, causing people to click on ad links, thereby generating income for the website owner. The more controversial, the stickier the content. And thus the sausage is made. Sorry for breaking the 4th wall again.

    #820054
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    And thus the sausage is made.

    I like sausage. I have one hanging in my closet from Romanian. Wife won’t let me hang it in the kitchen- I know who isn’t getting any.

    #820055
    yichusdik
    Participant

    Wow, 600 kilo, the tziyonim are responsible for meshichist extremists now? What else? New Coke? The Roswell coverup? Global Warming?

    #820056
    Toi
    Participant

    2scents- actually my wife was lubovitch but they chapped how wacko it was and got out. i HAVE the inside scoop.

    #820057
    twisted
    Participant

    I am both close to, and very far, from Chabad. In times past, there was near universal lomdus among them, and now the average yankel goes through the Dvar Hamalchus ( a chabad sort of chok leyisrael with heavy Ramban content) weekly, and so is not an am hooretz. In public speaking though, there is nearly nothing other than the Rebbe’s Torah. That is a tragedy.

    #820058
    2scents
    Participant

    Toi, I will admit that I have no inside info on lubavitch. However some of the people from Lubavitch I met, seemed like nice people.

    I am against bashing an entire community. Each community has its faults.

    #820059
    Toi
    Participant

    twisted-tragedy that theres not more, or that it exists at all?

    #820060
    Jothar
    Member

    The tragedy isn’t so much ignorance as much as avoda zarah.

    #820061
    Toi
    Participant

    wow jothar i like you

    #820062
    Toi
    Participant

    2scents. you have to know what it means to ” be agianst bashing an entire community” if they are 96% wackos. in an ir hanidachas they all go down.

    #820063
    Bar Shattya
    Member

    did you ever read “identifying chabad”? I wonder if I wrote it. Hard to remember the things I do sometimes.

    #820064
    bpt
    Participant

    I was in CH yesterday. If there is one complaint I have, its that not enough of the people I stopped spoke English.

    Other than that, they are among the funnest bunch to hang with. Where else in Bklyn can you find a party at 1:00am? And a fabreng at each block?

    C’mon folks. Stop with the hate and let a little ahavas yisroel into your hearts

    #820065
    Toi
    Participant

    yay drunk people means theyre good. warped.

    #820066
    twisted
    Participant

    Toi, that there is nothing else. The torah literature is a wondrous and vast garden. They are practicing monoculture, and it is bad news for plants, and probably for Jews as well.

    Jothar, me, being small potatoes, I call it karov laavodah zara. I once asked my Rosh, “IF you regard messianics and followers of a dead messiah as akin to christians, should we not eat from their shechitah? He answered “Yes”.

    #820067
    Jothar
    Member

    Swipe from http://www.identifyingchabad.org

    A Note On Hatred.

    We have long noted how Lubavitchers often respond to even the mildest and most balanced criticism with the charge of sinas chinum. This is true no matter how objective or even friendly is the tone of any letter or book on the subject. This is also true regardless of the lack of any evidence of actual bad feeling. It has unfortunately become utterly predictable that the principle reactions to any suggestion that there might be some problems in Chabad ideology or practice consist of deeply emotional (and often incoherent) accusations of personal hatred and venom.

    This is a real shame because it makes it virtually impossible for anyone to engage in intelligent and productive dialogue on the issues that really matter.

    #820068
    cherrybim
    Participant

    Is lubavitch the only group of Chasidim today that do not wear payos or shtrimel?

    #820069
    Jothar
    Member

    When a mainstream leader can come out and say “The Rebbe runs the world!” (As opposed to Hashem) and nobody within the movement has an issue with it, it shows a deep problem. This is the point Derech was trying to goad someone into making, So I’ll do him the favor and make it.

    #820070
    ✡onegoal™
    Participant

    Quote from a talmid chacham: “They are the closest religion to Judaism.”

    There is a lubavitch fellow at the shul I daven at who insists on saying yichie adoneinu every day even though he has been asked to stop many times by the gaboim and the rav, and was even kicked out of the shul, but still comes back and insists on saying it. What is his point?

    #820071

    Yes. In EY, disaffected young people turn to very extreme forms of “tshuva” more as a rebellion against the emptiness of the mess the tzioinim made than out of real belief. Some have been through drugs, Eastern cults etc and this is just another try to find a place in the world.

    They develop the belief later, but usually it starts with a desire to escape. And what they are escaping is the sickness of secular “Israeli” society.

    #820072
    2scents
    Participant

    Where did they make that statement?

    When I was in Yeshivah, a Lubab asked me what we have against Lubavitch. I had nothing to answer him.

    http://www.youtube.com/v/IfvqmCANF-c&rel=0 -mod

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