Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha
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November 25, 2017 11:36 pm at 11:36 pm #14113022scentsParticipant
Thanks for the straightforward response.
The reason I asked it, is earlier the question was asked just phrased differently, the response was a lengthy response which was written by a very smart person but didn’t really answer the question.November 25, 2017 11:38 pm at 11:38 pm #1411290LubavitcherParticipant
We light shabbos candles to bring more light and peace to the world. Before the holocaust ALL girls lit shabbos candles but because of shortages they stopped so the mesora died down so to say.November 25, 2017 11:38 pm at 11:38 pm #1411291
“it’s well known that after he had his stroke, people claimed that Rav Schneerson ZT”L was saying all sorts of things, each one more outlandish than the last.”
It’s also well known that the Rebbe wasn’t able to speak after his stroke in 1992.November 25, 2017 11:39 pm at 11:39 pm #1411305
In no way am I defending moshiach chat but about the rebbe not being known as a gadol btorah like Rav Aharon kotler. You need to first learn the 39 volumes of the lubavitcher rebbes chidushei torah to make such a statementNovember 25, 2017 11:48 pm at 11:48 pm #1411296MammeleParticipant
Put Down The Gun: I think it was CS that claimed that the Rebbe encouraged his “converted” Chasidim to stick to their family minhagim, about which there was a whole back and forth here as to whether it included regular minhagim, or just to show the public, like levush. Now we see that even when addressing the general public that has their own minhagim, Chabad does exactly the opposite and tells them to disregard their own.
Additionally, the Chabad.org article seemed disingenuous by trying to discount almost all of klal Yisroel’s minhag that young girls don’t light, as an apparent loss of mesora.November 25, 2017 11:54 pm at 11:54 pm #1411311
What u said about Reb Yoel is absolutely not true. I don’t really blame u because this stems, in large part, from a term(meshichist) which is a shrouded in confusion. Reb Yoel disagrees with the method of the meshichistim, not the truth of what they are saying. Chaim Dolfin had many conversions with Reb Yoel and wrote in his book(Attack on Lubavitch) as much. There are a few familiar names amongst Lubavitchers and who kno Reb Yoel and people close to him who say that Reb Yoel has a political opinion and personal one. In addition I know people who studied by Reb Yoel after gimmel tammuz who told me that he believes the Rebbe is still moshiach. Most telling tho, is that I have access to a copy of an article he wrote after gimmel tammuz where he defends the idea that the Rebbe can be moshiach. I have it and have seen it with my own eyes. In there he says chabad chassidim need to believe the Rebbe is moshiach, but nonLubavitchers don’t.
Regarding your point about scaring people away from Lubavitch, I’m sorry to say that there are plenty of things the Rebbe said to publicize even if people get upset or to ignore their reactions. Practically tho, how many people are pushed away from Orthodox Judaism because of rules, age of the world, female/male roles, and shomer negiah? We don’t care what the world thinks here nor should we. A lubavitcher listening to his rebbe is no different. Especially when this inyan was blasted on live tv in front of millions of people at the Super Bowl for the whole world to see. Additionally, people asked to publicize this idea and were given positive answers from the Rebbe. What’s more, not everyone is pushed off. Plenty of people enjoy these inyanim. It’s not so clear cut as u make it seem.
Thirdly, I’m not here to tell people the Rebbe is moshiach and convince them of it. I’m here to defend that it is a kosher belief for whomever may hold it. Now please explain to me how showing lubavitchers are kosher to a bunch of people with a lot of questions or rude things to say about Lubavitch is worse than letting them think it about people who are going to continue believing it anyways? How does that make sense? And just what are u doing here? Spreading love?Please tell me how allowing people to have access to Lubavitchers is worse then letting them hear half truths from non lubavitchers and get these terrible ideas about us? I mean look at this thread? Why shouldn’t I try to help clarify? It’s not like there is peace until I start talking. It’s a mess and I’m just trying to give whatever answers I can so that we can stop fighting. And I’m hoping u will forgive me for any attitude I’ve given u, but if we are at the point where allowing people to think badly and Lubavitch is more acceptable than giving answers in an attempt to help people feel better about lubavitch then what have we come to? Also this chat presupposes such discourse is possible. If u have come to challenge that, then u have come to the wrong threadNovember 25, 2017 11:56 pm at 11:56 pm #1411313Yserbius123Participant
@SechelHaYashar didn’t stop people from claiming he said stuff. Sometimes it was “I heard from him once…” sometimes it was literally “The Rebbe woke up today and spoke clearly for the first time!”November 25, 2017 11:59 pm at 11:59 pm #1411294GAONParticipant
Firstly, as i have pointed out, it is utterly silly and naive to base something as sensitive as such of an issue on a few diyukim in a Rambam. This subject is not for קטנים כערכינו – only true Gadolie vPoskei hador can Maybe have a say.
Just to prove how these diyukim hold no water i will respond.
ואם לא הצליח עד כה,
Means simply the very same as dying.
The Rambam OBVIOUSLY didn’t have to spell out somethings so silly that ONLY nowadays Meshicists can capably say. If you are dead – you are done. Its common sense. No need to spell it out.
Now, why then did he have to write out:
או נהרג— the answer is simple: yes, being a martyr dying in war or in process of mosheach, common folks did associate with dying על קדוה”ש and thus another step towards the final step and indeed fit for mosheach (In fact, it does say that it is part of the process, though l משיח בן יוסף, ואכ”מ”. ) that is why he has to spell it out. But “dead” מהיכ”ת!
….. לא עלה על דעתו כלל וכלל שיהי’ איזה צורך
On the same note, when Shabtai Tzvi was arrested the Gadolim advised that he should not be persecuted, as that will make matters worse etc, explanation was exactly as above.
Instead he was given a choice to convert to Islam. Once he converted the truth was finally clear to all. And even with that, he still had sort of a following believing he will reappear and explained his conversion as a process of tikun Al Pi Kabbalah etc.November 26, 2017 12:09 am at 12:09 am #1411318
I have to take issue with ur idea that gedolim say empty compliments. They tend to say what they mean. In any event, the compliments and things gedolim said about the Rebbe are not measly little things and I think u should look into it before assuming such. There are a few volumes of the Rebbes relationships with gedolei Yisroel. Many stom people don’t tend to read the Rebbes sichos and mamaarim and for that reason don’t know him for gaoness. But it’s silly to say that because of that he wasn’t a gaon. But the chief rabbi of montreal, Rav Hirshprung, knew shas like the back of his hand. I personally know a rabbi who was in his class, him and a friend decided to take a piece of ripped tosofos out of sheimus and see if Rav hirshprung knew where it was from Baal peh—he did. This same Rav hirshprung said that’s if u want to see real gaoness u will read the footnotes in a lukutei sichos. One of a million.
Not sure what ur point is about the Rambam, if u could clarifyNovember 26, 2017 12:10 am at 12:10 am #1411320
When joining a specific denomination in Judaism it is inevitable that you will almost certainly adapt a great a fair amount of their hanhogos,regardless of what people claim the lubavitcher rebbe said about keeping your own mesorah.This is true to an even greater extent if you studies in their yeshivos from a relatively young age.with regards the chabad.org website,they answer mainly to non affiliated or observant so they will certainly teach the Judaism in the chabad version. It is more than likely that lighting candles was something specific that the Lubavitcher Rebbe felt very for,regardless of his respect for other mesorahs. As we see very clearly that lighting shabbos candles is something that non observant woman feel very connected to. Keep in mind that if a young Jewish girl is taught from a very age that she has a special mitzvah and connection to shabbos, it is very likely that she will marry a Jewish husband and keep shabbos for ever.Just something to think about.November 26, 2017 12:38 am at 12:38 am #1411333
I think that lighting Shabbos Licht from 3 years old is a beautiful Minhag. If you don’t want to, then don’t. Many Gedolim felt for particular Minhagim and asked people to do them, no one’s forcing anyone. Many Yidden did used to keep this Minhag in Europe, and it’s a beautiful tradition to continue. I don’t see how this, of all things, gets you riled up. The Frierdiker Lubavitcher Rebbe (Harav Yosef Yitzchok Schneersohn zy”a 1880 – 1950) asked all Yidden to say extra Tehilim after davening, I’ve never heard anyone say “but in my family/Chassidus we don’t do that”. If you don’t want to, that’s fine, no one is forcing you to change your family Minhagim.November 26, 2017 12:39 am at 12:39 am #1411332
Forgive me, but I fail to see where u have rebutted what I said. Asserting that u find something silly is fine, but I’ve already said that the Rebbe said the Rambam is bediuk. So if if ur interpretation of the Rambam seems to have some redundant phrasing then why should I assume that’s pshat? Especially when there are cases after the Rambam where people say moshiach can come from the dead. U say “not succeed” is the same as killed. Ok, but then why write killed? And why write “kosher and complete kings of Israel that DIED” too? Why the dozens of unnecessary sentences? Ur right, it is a sensitive issue which is exactly why we shouldn’t just brush the Rambam as being repetitive and unnecessary wordy in a part that is of upmost importance. That seems a little too convienent. Not to even have to deal with the resident wording of ur pshat just because like yah kno the Rambam obvi agrees with me cause like I’m right and ur wrong and like come on, duh. Also, ur point does not deal with people who consider the Rambam to be lo zachu.November 26, 2017 12:41 am at 12:41 am #1411326
As R’ Yoel Kahan once said, “what the Meshichistim do to the Rebbe even the communists didn’t do”.
Interesting how you claim that really R Yoel is still a secret Meshichist, while most other Meshichistim I know just say that he’s a koifer.
“I’m here to defend that it is a kosher belief for whomever may hold it. ”
If you followed this thread from the beginning (yes all 350 posts…) you’d see that I do defend it as a “kosher belief”, it’s not against any of the Ikrei HaDas. But to tell people that the Rebbe declared himself as Moshiach and all other kinds of narishkaiten, does not advance Hafatzas HaMayonois in anyway. People here don’t want to have anything to do with Lubavitch after reading what you write. And if this really was what Lubavitch stands for then I don’t blame them. But as a devoted Lubavitcher Chossid, I can categorically assure you all that the Rebbe zy”a was against all of this nonsense, and that mainstream Lubavitch and our official Mosdos (Merkos L’inyonei Chinuch, Agudas Chassidei Chabad) condemn and reject these beliefs.November 26, 2017 12:42 am at 12:42 am #1411327mdd1Participant
Put down the gun, that point was just an additional snif – the main reason was stated before. Plus, the Rebbe has 39 volumes of chiddushim on sugyos Ha’Shas? I have never heard about it.November 26, 2017 12:44 am at 12:44 am #1411330mdd1Participant
MoshiachChat, I meant what I wrote. Namely, that you don’t need to be a huge Gadol to read a Rambam about Moshiach properly. And even if some famous Gadol tries to say some very shver pshat in it, a learned, but not famous, individual can disagree with that pshat.November 26, 2017 12:44 am at 12:44 am #1411335GAONParticipant
“but about the rebbe not being known as a gadol btorah like Rav Aharon kotler. You need to first learn the 39 volumes of the lubavitcher rebbes chidushei ..”
With all due respect to the rebbe who was a Gadol b’Torah, while I did not learn All 39 vol, I did see enough to have somewhat of an indication. Sorry, but no comparison in Torah . All you need is to read both works with an open minded decision. I won’t say the Rebbe didn’t have other qualities that surpassed Rav Ahron Kotler, but Gadlus and Gaones beToras niglah is not one of them. Sorry.November 26, 2017 12:45 am at 12:45 am #1411337
Not sure what happened to my original comment about the Rebbe not being known for his gadlus in Torah, maybe the mods will put it up soon, if they don’t, then here goes:
You don’t need to take my word for it that the Rebbe zy”a was boki in all מקצועות התורה from Shas, Rishonim and Achronim to Kabbalah from Pri Eitz Chayim to Kisvei HoArizal to Zohar, you can simply open a copy of his Chiddushim Al HaRambam or Al HaShas, or any volume of Likkutei Sichos and see the copious footnotes from referencing mamash Kol HaTorah Kuloh. Additionally, as I mentioned earlier on in this thread, the well known story of the Rebbe with Reb Boruch Ber z”l. If you won’t believe the story, simply call up Rabbi Yosef Krupnik of the Vaad Harabbanim of Detroit and ask him yourself, he’s not a Lubavitcher, and he’s number is available online.November 26, 2017 12:46 am at 12:46 am #1411347
“Also, ur point does not deal with people who consider the Rambam to be lo zachu.”
I don’t think most people on this thread know what you’re talking about. And, that doesn’t apply to the Halochos of who can be Moshiach, only to the parts of how he will come, where the Rambam says “no man will know until it happens” (I’m quoting by heart, forgive me if the loshon is slightly off). According to your interpretation here of Lo Zochu, even Yoshke could be Moshiach.November 26, 2017 1:03 am at 1:03 am #1411357
BurnTFACE I certainly would like to hear your take on all of the above as someone who has been there and left.November 26, 2017 1:11 am at 1:11 am #1411356MammeleParticipant
SH: You keep on spitting back the same Kool-aid. But I haven’t heard of one family that had this minhag in Europe. Aderaba, I’d like to hear from non Lubavitch readers here to the contrary.
And I believe a young girl shouldn’t be asked to go against her family’s minhag. (Although it was probably prefaced with something to the effect of “with your parents” permission” I still think it’s wrong.)
Neither should someone who says his own TRADITIONAL grandmother disagrees.
But it’s not this that’s getting me “riled up”. It’s the whole pattern here of deceit and lies, and trying to cater the message to suit the audience.November 26, 2017 1:22 am at 1:22 am #1411360
I once came across a Tshuva from the Minchas Yitzchok where he answers by quoting the Rebbes opinion on the matter, he quotes the Rebbe with the most honorific titles. (It’s a Tshuva on traveling on Israeli ships on Shabbos, I don’t have one next to me so I can’t give an exact source, perhaps tomorrow).November 26, 2017 1:28 am at 1:28 am #1411352
“Plus, the Rebbe has 39 volumes of chiddushim on sugyos Ha’Shas? I have never heard about it.”
Let’s say he did. In all likelihood you probably still wouldn’t have heard of them. But in reality, the Rebbe has 39 volumes of Likkutei Sichos – which discuss all parts of Torah, from pshat in Chumash, to a kashe on Rashi, to sugyos Al HaShas. There’s also several volumes of Hadronim on Shas (which the Rebbe said when he would make a siyum on a masechta) as well as on Rambam. I invite you into your local Lubavitcher shul to see for yourself, who knows perhaps you’ll even enjoy it, and you’ll definitely be mekayem mitzvas Talmud Torah, which according to all Shittos one isn’t mekayem on the Coffee Room:)November 26, 2017 1:36 am at 1:36 am #1411354
I feel sorry for CS and all the other who have been defending lubavitch. NOt because I have anything against them defending what they believe in but because they also seem to really believe that we will be convinced by their arguments.
In a nutshell, I think the following is true of all the non-lubavitchers who have posted here regardless of their high esteem or otherwise of the lubavitcher rebbe. In no particular order:
1. There is no such thing as dor shvii except in lubavitch circles, and it’s source is the last lubavitcher rebbe or close to that time.
2. There is no such thing as nossi hador except in lubavitch circles, and its source is the … (as above).
3. We do not have neviim and the last lubavitcher rebbe was NOT a navi. the only source that he was is… (as above).
4. The last lubavicher rebbe was NOT the greatest talmid chochom of the generation or of any other generation, and the only source … (as above).
5. The fact that many rabbonim complimented/liked the last lubavitcher rebbe was because they saw that he had mailos, but not because they believed he was the godol hador. The only source for thinking otherwise … (as above).
6. (Something which hasn’t been brought up before as far as I recall) The only source that the last lubavitcher rebbe “loved each and every Jew” is … (as above). If he really loved them all why did he fight so bitterly with Satmar and Rav Shach? Why did he almost never allow Lubavitch to join into other communal functions e.g. Agudath Israel, Daf Yomi, except on his terms?
NOne of the above is intended to detract from the lubavitcher rebbe. There are those who hold him in high esteem and those who don’t – thats their individual understanding’s business – but it most definitely demonstrates that all the arguments put forward quoting his statements as proof are just a total waste of time.November 26, 2017 1:36 am at 1:36 am #1411372
“What is wrong if the lubavitcher rebbe’s opinion was that all girls should light shabbos candles?”
Nothings wrong. What’s wrong is that he won’t accept that other Gedolim are of a different opinion and don’t want their daughters to light cangles.November 26, 2017 1:37 am at 1:37 am #1411371
(Still catching up!) Sechel Hayashar wrote: “R Boruch Oberlander (a shliach and respected dayan and posek in Hungary)…”
You’re kidding, right? I don’t mean anything bad about Rabbi Oberlander – I met him once and he seemed a truly special person – but your kidding that the fact he is a “respected dayan and posek in Hungary” carries any weight at all. How many shomrei Shabbos are there in Hungary today?
Or did you perhaps mean that he was a respected dayan and posek there before the WW2?November 26, 2017 1:38 am at 1:38 am #1411369
Sechel Hayashar wrote in reply to what I wrote: “If you think so badly of them and their motives, why would you use them when it’s convenient? I would never go to a conservative temple under any circumstances.”
Why are lubavitchers always so much on the defensive. Did I compare them to conseratives? No. I just said that the majority of shlichim do their jobs because for them it’s parnosso (and I wrote there that there’s nothing wrong wit that).
Anyways, would I go into a conservative temple if I needed, say, kosher food? No, of course not. And I presume neither would you. BUt would I buy kosher food from a conservative Jew if I needed it? Yes. And I presume so would you.
I reiterate: I’m not c”v comparing lubavitchers to conservatives, but since you seemed to I am answering letaimeich.November 26, 2017 1:39 am at 1:39 am #1411378
I believe it was a Minhag of certain Chassidusen. I never said everybody did it. Many Rebbishe families have continued this Minhag among them – (in alphabetical order) the Alter, Friedman, Hager, Halberstam, Heschel, Karelitz, Rokeach, Schapiro, Schneersohn, Soloveitchik, Twerski, Weinberg, and Sonnenfeld families.
This is also brought down in the Aruch HaShulchan, Siman 263, Seif Zayin:
ובנות ישראל נוהגות לברך כל אחת בעצמה אף כשהן אצל אמן, אף שהבעל אינו מברך וסומך על ברכת אשתו, כמ”ש בסעיף ה’, משום דהחיוב הוא רק על המשפחה כמ”ש שם, מכל מקום הבנות מפני שהן נצטוות יותר כמו שנתבאר – מברכת כל אחת ואחת, וטוב שכל אחת תברך בחדר בפני עצמה.November 26, 2017 1:39 am at 1:39 am #1411368JosephParticipant
“I can categorically assure you all that the Rebbe zy”a was against all of this nonsense, and that mainstream Lubavitch and our official Mosdos (Merkos L’inyonei Chinuch, Agudas Chassidei Chabad) condemn and reject these beliefs.”
Mainstream Lubavitch and the official Mosdos condemn and reject which beliefs?November 26, 2017 1:41 am at 1:41 am #1411364
Sorry, I had to catch up a lot after Shabbos and I can’t remember exactly who it was (possibly CS or Sechel Hayashar) who said that it was obvious (probably not the exact words used) that the geonus of the lubavitcher rebbe was unmatched?
Are you for real?
I have spoken to many talmidei chachomim of all types, Chassidish, Litvish and Sefardish, and I am yet to hear someone who things that the lubavitcher rebbe was a great geon. Many of them liked some of the verter and pshatim that he said, but that was the limit of their appreciation of his learning.
And the point so many of them brought up to prove that he was most ceratinly not such a great gaon was his lomdus for not sleeping in a sukkah. Did he really say that?November 26, 2017 1:45 am at 1:45 am #1411380
770chabad wrote: “Before the holocaust ALL girls lit shabbos candles…”
If I call the above utter garbage will it be moderated out?
It is 100% not true. My father sisters in Hungary did NOT light Shabbos Candles even though they were from a chareidi family with plenty of money, my mother before the war in Germany did NOT candles, and my aunts from Poland did NOT either. I have asked them all.November 26, 2017 1:45 am at 1:45 am #1411365
To add, “my interpretation”(altho not my point but really the opinion the sdei chemed quotes) doesn’t allow yoshke to be moshiach because he was KILLED. If u read what I said I said being killed will never change it. Dead is something else. In addition, he changed Torah mitzvahs. He can’t be moshiach. Zachu or not. U missed the point.November 26, 2017 1:46 am at 1:46 am #1411362
Sechel Hayashar: I know exactly which family you mean, and they are indeed a verry choshuver family, but it only goes to prove my point. They came from outside, although not to far away, and they were told to keep their levush because it makes it obvious to anyone who sees them that this choshuve family were attracted to Lubavitch from the outside.
My challenge, I suppose it could be called, was to find me someone who was told to keep his mesorah when it would not be so obvious that he was choshuv and/or from the outside, for example, to keep winding tefillin the other way, to keep wearing non-lubavitch tallis/tzitzis. Do you know anyone who was told to keep their mesorah where it wouldnt result in people being impressed with their being attracted to lubavitch?November 26, 2017 1:46 am at 1:46 am #1411385
“Mainstream Lubavitch and the official Mosdos condemn and reject which beliefs?”
The belief that the Rebbe zy”a is still alive, and will soon be revealed as Moshiach. (Among many of the other things discussed here).November 26, 2017 1:56 am at 1:56 am #1411388PhilParticipant
After eight pages of posts I think most rational people will agree:
1) The Rebbe was a talmid chacham but was never accepted by most of Klal Yisrael as its leader, let alone as its Messiah
2) The Rebbe passed away in 1994 and isn’t coming back until everyone else who passed away are reanimated during techiyas hameisim, after Moshiach arrives
3) Therefore, any consideration of his still being Moshiach is sick, delusional and hurts the (few?) remaining Chabad followers who haven’t succumbed to this tragic mental illness
4) Any further posts on this matter, pro or con, will only lead to more baseless hatred which will only delay the arrival of MoshiachNovember 26, 2017 1:56 am at 1:56 am #1411391
Sechel Hayashar: “It’s also well known that the Rebbe wasn’t able to speak after his stroke in 1992.”
I clearly remember secretary Rabbi Groner saying that the lubavitcher rebbe said AFTER THE STROKE that everything will be resolved berov shiro vezimro.November 26, 2017 1:57 am at 1:57 am #1411390
Sechel HaYashar wrote:
@Joseph, “Mainstream Lubavitch and the official Mosdos condemn and reject which beliefs?” The belief that the Rebbe zy”a is still alive, and will soon be revealed as Moshiach. (Among many of the other things discussed here).
“Mainstream chabad” oy vey. Only a completely fabricated term to keep the piece with nonlubavtichers. What numbers do u have to support majority of lubavitchers reject he is moshiach? Where are ur pew polls? I’ve met hundreds of fellow lubavitchers many which are under shlichus from merkos who DO BELIEVE such things. And no, ur next comment will not change that factNovember 26, 2017 1:57 am at 1:57 am #1411389
“but your kidding that the fact he is a “respected dayan and posek in Hungary” carries any weight at all. How many shomrei Shabbos are there in Hungary today?”
Wow. I’m flabbergasted! It’s truly amazing the nitpicking that you (and others) will do to find some problem with what a Lubavitcher said. Absolutely insane. Hungary – the place he lives. Respected – by the many frum families there, and globally. (There was an article about him in the Ami not so long ago).November 26, 2017 1:57 am at 1:57 am #1411395
Ur list is nonsenseNovember 26, 2017 3:21 am at 3:21 am #1411399
“Why are lubavitchers always so much on the defensive. ”
Hmm, I wonder.
“My challenge, I suppose it could be called, was to find me someone who was told to keep his mesorah when it would not be so obvious that he was choshuv and/or from the outside, for example, to keep winding tefillin the other way, to keep wearing non-lubavitch tallis/tzitzis.”
I explained in a previous post the difference between Minhag and Halachic Shita. The two examples you bring are in the latter category.
“and they were told to keep their levush because it makes it obvious to anyone who sees them that this choshuve family were attracted to Lubavitch from the outside.”
Nonsense. Part of the Lubavitch conspiracy I mentioned earlier, which believes that any praiseworthy thing the Rebbe or any Lubavitcher did is for ulterior motives. Disgusting!
Also, this family do keep many of their other Minhagim too, such as keeping Shabbos for several hours longer, by taking it in early, or bringing out late.November 26, 2017 3:22 am at 3:22 am #1411400PhilParticipant
“Ur list is nonsense”
Thanks! Coming from you that only makes my post more rational. As if arguing that a man who died over twenty-three years ago is going to rise up and declare himself the Messiah isn’t nonsense. Go take your medicine.November 26, 2017 3:24 am at 3:24 am #1411403
“We sat by him and saw that ‘no secret is hidden from him’ literally, in Shas and poskim, and in Nistar his understanding is very, very deep, mamash the ‘Master of the Zohar.’”
“Despite the late hour the Rebbe was alert to a degree that is difficult to imagine. We saw how he is constantly immersed in the world of the spirit. The entire Torah – Shas and poskim, Agada and Midrash and kabbala – everything is spread out before him in the clearest way. There is no need to speak in terms of (my) great admiration and veneration, but it is clear that each visit forms a greater closeness…
No less than the amazement over his incredible Torah wisdom is the feeling of k’dusha. When we sat near him we felt this time, too, as though we were sitting in the chamber of holiness, by someone where k’dusha hovers and rests in its fullest intensity in his four cubits. When you sit near him you strongly sense the words of the Gemara, “this is not a son of man (i.e. not an ordinary human being).” In addition, we saw his great concern for the Jewish people. There are no individual worries for one group or another. He is a ‘universal man’ in the deepest sense of the term. Whatever he does is done in a big way and with general concern for Klal Yisroel throughout the world. Fortunate is the generation that the Rebbe leads.”
-Mordechai Eliyahu, Chief Rabbi of IsraelNovember 26, 2017 3:26 am at 3:26 am #1411405
Sechel Hayashar: ”
“but your kidding that the fact he is a “respected dayan and posek in Hungary” carries any weight at all. How many shomrei Shabbos are there in Hungary today?”
Wow. I’m flabbergasted! It’s truly amazing the nitpicking that you (and others) will do to find some problem with what a Lubavitcher said. Absolutely insane. Hungary – the place he lives. Respected – by the many frum families there, and globally. (There was an article about him in the Ami not so long ago).”
I don’t think it’s called nitpicking. I think it’s pure calling you out on the facts. If I live in some derfel in Nebraska and I am the Rabbi and Dayan there of the three Yidden who live in the area and who are unfortunately all non-SHomer Shabbos, I might be a respected person and a Rabbi and a Dayan but to refer to me as “respected dayan and posek in Nebraska” would be fooling people.
Rabbi Oberlander IS a respected person in Hungary. He IS the Rabbi there. He may indeed be a Dayan. But as the respect accorded him is not as a Rov who paskens or as a Dayan who adjudicates Dinei Torah he is NOT “a respected Rabbi and Dayan in Hungary”.
I stand by what I wrote. What do others think?November 26, 2017 3:26 am at 3:26 am #1411407
“Why are u anons so unnecessarly rude. Jeez”
You’re anonymous too so speak for yourself. If I could identify myself to just you, I would. And the last word of your sentence is a euphemism for Yoshke, so I don’t think it’s appropriate for a frum Yid to be using. (Source: Merriam Webster’s Dictionary, Google.)November 26, 2017 3:26 am at 3:26 am #1411408
Sorry, my concluding question in my last post about Sechel Hayashar’s desciption of Rabb Oberlander should have been: What do others who have no particular agenda, either pro or anti lubavitch, think?
Once again, the question has nothing to do with Rabbi Oberlander. It has only to do with the description given by Sechel Hayasher.November 26, 2017 3:28 am at 3:28 am #1411411
“I sensed in him a special holy neshama, not an individual soul but a comprehensive soul of Klal Yisroel. I don’t know any other gadol in our generation who is concerned for Klal Yisroel and not just a limited group. I once said jokingly – ‘what does a Jew from Russia who lives in Brooklyn have to do with Jews in Morocco, in Casablanca?’ But it’s a fact. The shluchim he sent there transformed Moroccan Jewry and educated a generation of Rabbanim”
“I have met many g’dolim of this generation and some of them definitely impressed me with their greatness, but the Rebbe is another thing entirely! I have never seen such greatness in all parts of Torah, in p’shat, remez,
drush and sod at once. After I met the Rebbe I said to myself: This is not a human being but an angel of G-d. As for his work in spreading Torah throughout the world, surely there is no need to elaborate on that. I have already related something that happened at my home which the Rebbe saw with his ruach ha’kodesh from the far side of the world, about a couple that would come to me and thanks to the Rebbe’s ruach ha’kodesh a tremendous disaster was averted.
“He is the greatest of us!”
“He is the complete Israel. He is the perfection of everything. As for us, if we could only merit to learn at least one virtue from him.”
-Baba SaliNovember 26, 2017 7:33 am at 7:33 am #1411423
I was actually being fairly nice until u insulted everything about me and even now I’m not freaking out on u.
Regarding ur point about the use of the word I used, mitzad ikkur haDin it’s fine to say his name, but klal yisrael accepts not to say it and so we therefore don’t. As far as a euphemism is concerned, I’m not sure where that fails but I’ll refrain from using it for the time being. May I point u over to the din called ahavas yisrael? Don’t worry, I’m reading it now also.
Gut vochNovember 26, 2017 7:35 am at 7:35 am #1411425
Sechel Hayashar: ““My challenge, I suppose it could be called, was to find me someone who was told to keep his mesorah when it would not be so obvious that he was choshuv and/or from the outside, for example, to keep winding tefillin the other way, to keep wearing non-lubavitch tallis/tzitzis.”
I explained in a previous post the difference between Minhag and Halachic Shita. The two examples you bring are in the latter category. ”
The way one winds one’s tefillin is most definitely not a matter of Halacha. Neither is lubvitcher tzitzis with the way they do chulyos or the types of stripes they have on their talleisim. Pure minhog. IN fact in Rav Shulchon Oruch it does not say which way to wind the tefillin or that one should have chulyos.November 26, 2017 7:35 am at 7:35 am #1411426
Where are the quotes from Reb Mordechai Eliyahu and the Baba Sali taken from?November 26, 2017 7:37 am at 7:37 am #1411431
R. Hershel Shachter Mipnenei Harav p75.” The lubavitcher rebbe spoke about the importance of.lighting candles on shabos Eve, even for single women who live in their parents home, and the hassidim made a big controversy over this. When one of the students asked him ( R Joseph B Soloveitchik) for his opinion on the subject, he responded that he does not understand what innovation there is in this matter.THAT Was the practice in Europe, even in (R’Soloveitchiks) town, and that is how ( R Soloveitchik) practiced with his daughters when they were single, they lit their own candles, with a blessing, even when his wife also lit candles with a blessing.”November 26, 2017 7:37 am at 7:37 am #1411432
Just something I wanted to share because it was a topic of discussion.
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