Smoking and Shiduchim

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  • #589736

    Idealist
    Member

    Why is it that with such a shidduch crisis going on, the girls are so against if the boy smokes? Now, before everyone goes ballistic on me, I amnot suggesting the girl marries a smoker; but rather agree to go out, and trust me, if you get to date #5, and the boy is interested, he will probably quit. Most yeshiva boys only need that motivation to drop it.

    Any ideas?

    A father of a girl in shiduchim.

    #645124

    azi
    Participant

    I am a guy and i would never date a guy who is a smoker.

    #645125

    moish01
    Member

    azi, i hope you would never date a guy, period.

    #645126

    anonymisss
    Participant

    moish, behave;)

    Face the facts: MOST GUYS SMOKE! Deal with it, it’s not such a big deal and many will quit for you.

    ~a~

    #645127

    BasYisroel2
    Participant

    As someone who is in shidduchim-there is a lot of lying going on.The boys say that they won’t smoke once they get married but when Purim rolls around or one of their friends gives out chosson ciggarets then they change their tune.Another big problem with boys who smoke who promise to quit -there are studies to proove it-That people who were smokers and quit, later on in life if they are under a lot of stress they can take up smoking again full time!

    #645128

    azi
    Participant

    moish01, what i meant was, that even as a guy, usually the ones who smoke, i would not date another guy if he was a smoker.

    #645130

    Dr. Pepper
    Participant

    Once a guy has his mind set on a girl he’ll do what ever it takes to get engaged to her. A person I know went as far as saying that he was going to give up his career and learn in Kollel for the rest of his life for a particular girl he was interested in. While he might say that he’ll quit, once they get married, the initial bliss is over and they are back to ordinary life, he’ll take up smoking again.

    Here’s what’s so bad about smoking-

    In the following mortality table “Age” is the left column, the next column is the probability of a non-smoker dying during a particular month at that age followed by the probability of a smoker dying during a particular month at that age. The last column is the percentage increase in mortality that a smoker has verses a non-smoker. (There are many mortality tables out there, I picked this one at random from a website that helps users determine the premium they should be paying for life insurance.)

    For example a standard 33 year old non-smoker has a .00154 probability (about one in 650) of dying during that month while for a smoker it’s .00229 (about one in 437), an increase of 49%.

    Age	 Non-smoker 	 Smoker 	Ratio
    18 0.00149 0.00199 34%
    19 0.00153 0.00206 35%
    20 0.00155 0.00209 35%
    21 0.00154 0.00210 36%
    22 0.00151 0.00208 38%
    23 0.00149 0.00205 38%
    24 0.00146 0.00200 37%
    25 0.00143 0.00195 36%
    26 0.00141 0.00193 37%
    27 0.00139 0.00192 38%
    28 0.00139 0.00193 39%
    29 0.00140 0.00196 40%
    30 0.00141 0.00202 43%
    31 0.00144 0.00209 45%
    32 0.00148 0.00218 47%
    33 0.00154 0.00229 49%
    34 0.00161 0.00242 50%
    35 0.00168 0.00258 54%
    36 0.00178 0.00278 56%
    37 0.00189 0.00301 59%
    38 0.00203 0.00328 62%
    39 0.00217 0.00359 65%
    40 0.00234 0.00394 68%
    41 0.00251 0.00433 73%
    42 0.00270 0.00475 76%
    43 0.00291 0.00519 78%
    44 0.00313 0.00568 81%
    45 0.00338 0.00619 83%
    46 0.00364 0.00673 85%
    47 0.00393 0.00730 86%
    48 0.00425 0.00792 86%
    49 0.00458 0.00860 88%
    50 0.00497 0.00934 88%
    51 0.00541 0.01018 88%
    52 0.00592 0.01113 88%
    53 0.00650 0.01220 88%
    54 0.00714 0.01336 87%
    55 0.00784 0.01460 86%
    56 0.00860 0.01589 85%
    57 0.00942 0.01723 83%
    58 0.01029 0.01864 81%
    59 0.01127 0.02014 79%
    60 0.01238 0.02182 76%

    When a smoker is in his late 40s to early 50s his chance of dying from smoking is almost equal to the probability of dying from everything else combined!

    #645131

    mroosinsehry
    Member

    Exuse me, everyone, how can someone date a boy who smokes he is killing himself and it is very hard to stop. Once someone starts you cant’ stop. So your’e telling us to date the boy and then the boy will be convinced to stop. C’V. Let him stop now and he won’t have a problem. When you smoke continuously your’e being ovar an issur in the torah.

    “Ushmartem es nafshoseichem”!

    #645132

    SJSinNYC
    Member

    If its not such a big deal, why do so many guys smoke?

    FTR, my husband has never picked up a cigarette. I would never date a guy who was smoking – man people who are addicted cannot stop no matter what the consequences.

    #645133

    torahisemes
    Member

    i know plenty of guys who smoked in their yeshiva days. most of them stopped before they got married but some “stopped” and i imagine if their wives would know how upset they would be. but most guys do stop

    #645134

    oomis
    Participant

    Why is it that with such a shidduch crisis going on, the girls are so against if the boy smokes? Now, before everyone goes ballistic on me, I amnot suggesting the girl marries a smoker; but rather agree to go out, and trust me, if you get to date #5, and the boy is interested, he will probably quit. Most yeshiva boys only need that motivation to drop it.

    Any ideas?

    You really ARE an idealist! Smoke stinks. It stinks up the smoker, the people around the smoker, their clothing, stains their teeth and nails, costs a fortune (it would be healthier to simply set fire to a wad of money), and I won’t even discuss the health issue, because anyone in this day and age who still smokes or plans to start, is really unintelligent. I don’t care how many rebbeim do it. Every single one of them is a chotei and machti for putting their own health at risk and encouraging others to follow their example.

    That aside, the urge and addiction to smoke is so powerful that to believe someone would quit just like that because he likes a girl he has met, is really naive. Someone who is a real smoker could have lung cancer chalilah, with a tracheostomy tube in his throat, and he will continue to puff away until he can no longer hold the cigarette. Do not be fooled into thinking this is as easy as you claim. Quitting smoking is harder than any other bad habit, because the addiction to nicotine is one of the strongest in the world. Cigarettes should not even be legal IMO, any more than marijuana is, but the tobacco lobby is a powerful one as well.

    I broke up with a guy to whom I was close to getting engaged, and we knew each other for a long time before dating, and actually dated for about three months. He was a smoker, and I kept telling myself he would quit for me. He didn’t, he wouldn’t and I turned him down. Thank G-d for that, because he died at age 40 of a sudden massive coronary, after finally quitting a few months before. The damage he had already done to his heart, was irreversible. So he left a widow and two small boys, and for WHAT?????? For a stupid leaf wrapped in paper!!!!!!!

    Sorry if I am really passionate about this issue. I also lost a beloved uncle to emphysema, brought on by his lifelong smoking. His end was not a pretty one. He suffered greatly, and that is something the tobacco companies will NOT tell you. Most girls do not want to be widowed at an early age, or have their kids suffer from upper respiratory problems because “Daddy has to have a cigarette.” So I would tend to think that most girls will NOT want to go on that first date with a smoker, if they are smart.

    #645135

    moish01
    Member

    azi, i know what you meant. but you said it again. **DELETED** – but you might want to rephrase that to say something like “i am a guy, but even if i were a girl i wouldn’t want to date a guy who smoked.”

    i assume that’s what you meant.

    #645136

    anonymisss
    Participant

    moish, he didn’t mean that the way you’re taking it and you know it.

    moish, behave;)

    ~a~

    #645137

    Smoking is an obnoxious and destructive habit, and it goes against Hashems Torah that we have to protect the Guf. It is very sad to see the Rabbinic role models Smoking, as they are destroying not only their health but also the Talmidim who emulate them. Mussar is counter productive here, more Smoking Cessation Clinics, Tehilim for a refuah for the Smoker are urgently needed.

    #645138

    anonymisss
    Participant

    yank, it’s nice to see that at least one person realizes that mussar in this area is counterproductive.

    ~a~

    #645139

    azi
    Participant

    moish01, What i am saying is i understand the girls who dont want to date smokers, since i would be the same way. you’re right ill rephrase it: as a guy what i would look for is not someone who smokes, which is usually guys.

    #645140

    oomis
    Participant

    Azi, we DID understand you the first time. 🙂

    #645141

    striving
    Member

    oomis1105- you said everything i was thinking.

    i mean the number one rule of dating is: Don’t think that the person will change for you. Religiously, personality-wise, and in terms of addictions, too. i’m not saying that it doesn’t happen, but it’s not as common as the people in this forum seem to think.

    #645143

    azi
    Participant

    What about drinking on a date. I would love to order a drink in a restaurant. every single human on this planet gets wine or some other drink on a date to make the date more enjoyable and easy going (please dont say “oh it should be enjoyable without it” it shouldnt, its a pretty normal thing). these girls are made so nutty by their teachers in israel, you would think they come from a different planet.

    #645144

    LiLIsraeli
    Member

    I would never have married a guy who smoked. It seems to me that smoking indicates a reckless attitude, that the person has no respect for his own life, let alone his family’s lives, or the lives of anyone else in the world. I heard recently that third-hand smoke is just as dangerous as second-hand. For those who don’t know, third-hand smoke is inhaling the smoke and particles that have landed on the smoker’s clothes, etc. even after the cigarette is finished. I know someone who worked in a morgue, and he said that he could always tell when the corpse he was dealing with had been a smoker during their life – the lungs looked like the inside of a vacuum cleaner. The type of guy that I wanted to marry when I was in shidduchim was the type who did care about himself and his family, and who took more than his personal pleasure into account before doing the things he did.

    Anyway, BH the man I married does not smoke, and because people in his family did/do smoke, he is so turned off smoking that he can’t even think of picking up a cigarette.

    #645145

    anonymisss
    Participant

    azi, its fine. Drink and chill out. And i’m a girl saying this, there’s nothing wrong with that.

    ~a~

    #645147

    Drinking is ok if one person on the shiduch decides to abstain and assume the role of the designated driver. The other option is to either meet in Manhattan or Brooklyn for the Shiduch and use Public Transportation instead.

    #645148

    squeak
    Participant

    anonymisss, don’t kid yourself. Maybe guys can order hard drinks when they go out with you, but by no means should you generalize. Many girls will freak out from just hearing that the guy has a taste for alcohol.

    As for smokers, obviously smoking is not a characteristic that is in high demand. No one will disagree that it is an ugly and disgusting habit. However, there are many boys who smoke and are not forthcoming about it (whether or not they received a psak or the like about withholding that info is a different topic). Chances are, if you are a girl and went out with 5 yeshiva boys, at least one was a smoker. And that’s just if all 5 were marketed as nonsmokers.

    By the time the girl figures it out, it’s usually after she has developed feelings for him and at that point is ready to cling to straws (he’ll quit, he only does it because of peer pressure, etc). Too late for her. Sad, really.

    And for every guy who really does quit (it is possible) there is another who only “quits”.

    There is absolutely no reason why a good normal girl should have to accept a disgusting smoker. Smoking boys should only go out with smoking girls.

    #645149

    Jax
    Member

    squeak: Smoking boys should only go out with smoking girls.

    you should have added & sit in the smoker’s section of the Hotel Lounge!

    #645150

    lesschumras
    Participant

    Why do yeshivas and Roshei Yeshiva still allow smoking?

    #645152

    mamashtakah
    Member

    My daughters are not old enough yet for this (my oldest is 17), but I’ve already told them that there are two kinds of boys to avoid when dating:

    1. smokers

    2. late to davening and/or talking during davening

    #645153

    lesschumras
    Participant

    to ames,

    This is not a chumra. It’s a serious health issue that affects both the smoker and his chavrusa. In addition, when they enter kollel, they are are in effect using community funds to support a very expensive habit ad are endangering the health og their wives and children

    #645154

    oomis
    Participant

    It is no chumrah to refrain from smoking. it is being oveir on a Lav d’Oraisa if one smokes. Period. I could also make a good case for a person being oveir on “Lo sa’amod al dam reyacha,” if one knows his chavrusah smokes, and does not dissuade him. Unless he is encased in a glass bubble, the smoker afflicts himself AND anyone around him. You want to commit suicide – please DON’T. But whatever you do to yourself, do not do it to me, too. ( I am not referring to anyone on this forum, because none of the intelligent people on this forum would dream of smoking).

    Also, to address the comment that maybe the boy could hide his smoking from the girl… no way could that happen. Smokers truly do not realize how much their bodies absorb the odor of smoking. He would have to have not smoked for HOURS, be wearing pristine clothing that was not exposed to the smoke, and have had his teeth and nails whitened for the occasion. A smoker looks and smells like a smoker, all the time. They, like many dog owners, become inured to the odor after a time, and don’t notice it at all. BUT WE DO.

    #645155

    azi
    Participant

    mamashtakah, but if they are mass murderers its not a problem.

    #645156

    oomis
    Participant

    Smokers ARE like mass murderers. They pollute our environment, they kill themselves, and others around them, many fires are set negligently by smokers who fall asleep while smoking in bed, and if someone young dies as a result of their smoking habit, or the habit of another smoker, then generations of potential future lives are cut off at one time.

    #645157

    oomis
    Participant

    I cannot believe I found another issue on this forum that gets me as worked up as tznius, shidduchim, and whatever else I was debating!

    #645158

    kapusta
    Participant

    anonymisss

    Member

    moish, behave;)

    Face the facts: MOST GUYS SMOKE! Deal with it, it’s not such a big deal and many will quit for you.

    many. would you date a guy who smokes a pack a day? I wouldn’t.

    *kapusta*

    #645159

    tzippi
    Member

    I don’t get that the “boy will quit for you.” Why, if they haven’t already quit for their parents, or themselves?

    #645160

    miamimiami
    Member

    I used to smoke a pack a day for 6 year – and loved it. My wife told me to quit. I quit once for a couple days and then quit again permanently. It has been 20 years since I quit, and I would love to smoke again. If you truly want to do something – you can!

    #645161

    anonymisss
    Participant

    kapusta, well I have already, so there. No, I don’t like it. In many cases, you won’t know about it until you find out from the guy himself, so I’ve discovered.

    ~a~

    #645162

    anonymisss
    Participant

    this reminds me of this quote:

    “Quitting smoking is the easiest thing to do, why, I’ve done it a thousand times already.”

    Get it? It doesn’t happen. If it does, it’s not permanent (in most cases.)

    ~a~

    #645163

    If he hasn’t quit yet, what makes you think he will? Nicotine is an addictive drug.

    I can also spin the logic in reverse. If after 5 dates it is going very well, maybe she should just give into the fact that he smokes?

    #645164

    mroosinsehry
    Member

    why would someone want to marry a boy who has a good chance of dying in his 40s and 50s

    #645165

    anonymisss
    Participant

    Hey, 39, haven’t seen ya in a while. How’ve u been?

    spin the logic in reverse? Sounds pretty warped to me. Why would I want to increase my chances of being a 35 year old widow?

    ~a~

    #645166

    mroosinsehry
    Member

    anonymiss: thanks for making my point clear

    #645167

    B”H I’ve been busy. I’ve been Modding daily, just without posting though.

    What I meant by spin the logic in reverse was that for all those, like the OP, who say:

    and trust me, if you get to date #5, and the boy is interested, he will probably quit

    You can spin it in reverse (which I stated above). I was trying to get people to realize: Don’t Even Start Dating Someone Who Smokes!!

    #645168

    aussieboy
    Participant

    Well then if you dont want to go out with a guy who smokes dont start talking about a shidduch crisis there are plenty of guys but the girls dont want them because they smoke. (and somehow these guys still find a way of getting married even with all the girls saying they dont want a guy who smokes.)

    #645169

    What’s better a Shidduch Crisis or an Almana & Yesomim Crisis?

    #645170

    aussieboy
    Participant

    Would you rather 20 years of happy marriage or no marriage at all?

    (Wow I guess it really is true that jews answer a question with another question lol.)

    #645171

    AZ
    Participant

    Aussieboy:

    You write:

    “don’t start talking about a shidduch crisis there are plenty of guys but the girls dont want them because they smoke.”

    and yet

    “and somehow these guys still find a way of getting married even with all the girls saying they dont want a guy who smokes”

    Precisely BECAUSE of the shidduch crisis! Simple law of supply and demand.

    (mods, I will keep the shidduch crisis discussion to the appropriate thread, but hey I didn’t bring it up here.)

    We have given you a LOT of leeway with your posts in the other thread. Now you are just grandstanding and it is not viewed kindly.

    #645172

    anonymisss
    Participant

    just playing devil’s advocate

    ~a~

    #645173

    moish01
    Member

    hey what counts as “smoking?” just curious what you guys have in mind.

    #645174

    tzippi
    Member

    AZ – you talk about supply and demand. Parents – why are you shortchanging your daughters?!? Don’t be so desperate. We’ve got to get our boys to shape up.

    Now back to the regularly scheduled rant – 20 years of happy marriage? With the last few being hell on earth watching one’s husband and the father of her young kids dying a miserable death? We don’t know what Hashem has in store for any of us but this is entirely different.

    #645175

    BasYisroel2
    Participant

    YWN mod- 39 you hit it on the nail!

    #645176

    anonymisss
    Participant

    and this circles back to the problem with the kids. Mother’s busy, distracted, worried, and tense while trying to care for her ill husband. Children are neglected, lacking attention, lacking security, lacking feeling loved and cared for. Children begin looking elsewhere for attention, security, love, and care.

    And so the cycle spins.

    on.

    and on.

    and on.

    ~a~

Viewing 50 posts - 1 through 50 (of 229 total)
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