The name Shira – A Problem?

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  • #1160881

    Pashuteh Yid
    Member

    Yichusdik, Very well said. I have mentioned Dov Gruner here on YW a number of times, one of which I copied below. I also visited that prison when I was a young child, and it stayed with me forever.

    Hagaon Rav Amram Blau ZT’L, 35th Yahrtzeit

    “My dear DarcheiNaom, if you want to know what real mesirus nefesh is it is people like Dov Gruner and the Olei Gardom (those who went to the gallows) for the sake of Klal Yisroel and hakamas Medinas Yisroel. After he was captured, he wrote to his leader Menachem Begin not to worry, and that he has no regrets and would gladly have done it all over again. They took their tefilin to jail, and proudly sang Hatikvah as they were being led to their execution. Reb Aryeh Levin was their Rov, and shed bitter tears over them. On Rosh Hashana one year while he was the baal tefila, he broke down crying and repeating the names of each one of these kedoshim. These were people who gave it all so we can have our own state and a safe haven for Jews anywhere. On the ashes of the holocaust (some of whom were survivors) these people refused to be broken, and turned their efforts towards building up our nation, once again. “

    #1160882

    rabbiofberlin
    Participant

    yichusdik- I knew that feivel was a derivative from russian-and meant light (fabian) but you brought the real origin to life ! wow- from phoebus- greek!

    I also pay my respects to your whole mishpocho- the bostoner rebbe zz’l and his sons are, of course, also descendants from the “ba’al haflo-oh” who, if anyone would remember, was the Rov in frankfurt an main before the yekkes took over ! ( just some levity)

    #1160883

    yunger mann
    Member

    DAAS YOCHID- Cant get that with my filter what does it say

    #1160884

    1dayatatime
    Participant

    yunger

    you’re full of it

    #1160885

    yichusdik
    Participant

    ROB – yes indeed. Rav Pinchas and his brother R’ Shmuel Shmelke were also a bit unusual in that they were both Rabonim and poskim in established communities, but were also among the earliest followers (and leaders) of chasidus. It caused them a lot of controversy and problems with their communities. It also may be part of why my minhagim are a bit all over the map. R’Pinchas’s grandson married the daughter of the Mateh Efrayim, and I am descended from them, so I have the Margoliyus minhagim as well (e.g. no full kriah at Alenu in R’H musaf). Also, as you may know, R’Pinchas was an einekle of the first R Pinchas Horowitz, who married a descendant of the Luria/Spira/Treves branch of Rashis family through Yocheved) so I have minhag Rashi on things like kiddush in the sukkah but no eating on Shmini Atzeres during the day.

    I actually made a point of giving my 3 younger children (my eldest has all biblical names after ancestors) both a modern Hebrew name and a biblical one.

    #1160886

    rabbiofberlin
    Participant

    yichusdik- wow- you sure have yichus and I trust that you have the most important yichus- yichus atzmo! ( you probably know the story about the zero and numbers….lots of zeros have only great worth if there is a one before them!)

    A couple of questions: “no full kriah at alenu on R’H'” ??? do you mean “histachavo’oh’? (BTW, the matteh efraim was a businessman, so were his three brothers..)

    second , you mention the “first R.Pinchos Horowitz” do you mean the Sheloh? (who was also named horowitz)

    Lastly, I never knew that the minhag (chassidim) of making kiddush but not eating in the sukkah on shemini atzeret is from rashi..that’s new to me!

    #1160887

    yichusdik
    Participant

    ROB – Yes I know the story…Its kind of intimidating, actually.

    I mean at V’anachnu Korim Umishtachavim. my understanding is M’B says full kriah – head to the floor, but M’E says no, only on Yom Kippur. Instead we do a deep bow like for Modim in shmoneh esrei.

    The first R’ Pinchas Horowitz was born in Prague, lived there (built the Pinchas shul there)then lived in Kracow in the late 16th early 17th century. He was the Rav of both Prague then Krakow, and was also the head of the vaad arba hoaratzos. He was Married to Miriam Baila, sister of the Rema. He lived a very long life for the times, until 83. The Sheloh is a descendant of His, but a different line than mine. (I’m actually 3/8 Horowitz, got it from both sides).

    Yes, I know he was a businessman, in Brody, where he had a lumber business. He did not take the position of the rav of the community, but he supported a lot of learning, and many people came to him with Shailos from around Galitzia. This sort of informs my position on the appropriateness of disregarding the Rambam and being completely supported by the community instead of learning AND working. My grandfather was and my son is named for him.

    #1160888

    rabbiofberlin
    Participant

    yichusdik- thanks for your information. you have answered one of my own minhagim. My minhag (chasidus vishnitz) was not to fall “Korim” on R’H (only the chazzan) but to “fall korim” on yom kippur during the avodah and,of course, aleinu. In contrast, I davened in many shuls where everyone also “falls korim” on R.H.

    I did not know about the ‘first” R’ pinchas Horowitz. I googled him and-wonderful technology- all your information came up there!

    The “sheloh”-btw-was called Ysaiah -not pinchas, and was probably a greatgrandson.

    In reference to the matteh efraim’s business life, I am not going to open this big can of (excuse me)worms on this question. The Kessef mishneh already started that long ago…and I have had my arguments on this for years…even on this website…

    #1160889

    lbj
    Participant

    yes i heard this story. reb chaim asked what kind of name is shira and the father said well she was born parshas shira.

    rav chaim said your lucky she was not born parshas puhra.

    heard from a number of people here in yerushalayim

    #1160891

    hudi
    Participant

    I would much rather be named shira than eezevel.

    #1160892

    rav chaim said your lucky she was not born parshas puhra.

    Quite comical. Rav Chaim Shelita would never, ever, speak this way. On the other hand, a poster named Joseph sure would.

    #1160893

    shlishi
    Member

    on imamother we had this discussion last year. a bunch of people said the same thing about rav chaim. one person wrote the following:

    Just had bil ask Reb Chaim Kanevsky about the name Shira.

    He did not say it’s not a name, he made a joke that when someone told him that dd was born Shabbos Shira and they would like to name her Shira. His answer was: “and if she was born on Shabbos Parah-would you name her parah?!

    His exact answer was:” Are we missing nashim tzkanios to name after-name the baby Avigail” when my bil said :”and if they really want to name Shira?” He said “Efshar” (meaning you can)

    Posted: Tue, May 11 2010, 2:32 am Post subject: re: names not names?

    if you google the first line, you’ll find that post.

    #1160894

    http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/the-joseph-thread#post-190932

    Anyone second the motion that shlishi is, yet again, Joseph? Sure sounds like it

    #1160895

    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    TBT,

    It is not nice to throw away people’s thoughts based on what you find to be a hint of a clue. Shlishi shows absolutely no sign of being anyone else. In fact this last post actually contradicted what you call “Joseph’s” opinion. I also had my assumptions, but since I actually follow the rule of truth being told, I kept them to myself. How can you take unto yourself the Achrayos of bothering multiple people without actually knowing 100% if your claim is true?

    For the record, that ibn Hugo is not Joseph, either.

    #1160897

    always here
    Participant

    truth be told~ ‘shlishi’ has to be a woman (not Joseph)! her last post started out: “on imamother we had this discussion last year.” you HAVE to be a Jewish married woman to join that site!

    I’m just sayin’….

    #1160898

    HaLeivi: “For the record, that ibn Hugo is not Joseph, either.”

    How do know? Just curious.

    #1160899

    Joseph
    Participant
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