This Date in History

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    Thanks ICOT. Funnily I also seem to remember, as does anon, that another body was found during (and as a result of) the Fossett search. Perhaps there was some kind of initial report (maybe later rescinded) of that nature? Or maybe during the initial reports of finding Fossett’s body there was uncertainty if it was someone else’s?

    anon for this

    ICOT, my original question was not at all clear, because I wrote “a” where I meant to write “another”.

    Joseph, we may both be remembering correctly. I think it’s possible that if the missing person was not well-known, the story would not be widely available online, or would not be easily searchable. But if anyone can offer more information about this, I’d appreciate it.


    Sept. 4 historic events

    1781 Los Angeles was founded by Spanish settlers.

    1888 George Eastman received a patent for his roll-film camera and registered his trademark: Kodak.

    1917 The American expeditionary force in France suffered its first fatalities in World War I.

    1942 Transport nr 28 departs with French Jews to nazi-Germany

    1944 2,087 Jews transported for Westerbork to KZ-Lower Theresienstadt

    1951 In the first live coast-to-coast TV broadcast, President Harry S. Truman addressed the nation from the Japanese peace treaty conference in San Francisco.

    1957, Arkansas Gov. Orval Faubus called out the National Guard to prevent nine black students from entering Central High School in Little Rock.

    1957 Ford Motor Co. began selling its ill-fated Edsel line.

    1967 Michigan Gov. George Romney said during a TV interview that he had undergone a “brainwashing” by U.S. officials during a 1965 visit to Vietnam. The comment is widely believed to have derailed his campaign for the 1968 Republican presidential nomination.

    1971 Alaskan 727 crashes into Chilkoot Mountain, kills 109 (Alaska)

    1972 Swimmer Mark Spitz became the first person to win seven gold medals at a single Olympic Games when the United States won the 400-meter relay in Munich.

    1993 Jim Abbott pitches 4-0, no-hit win over Indians at Yankee Stadium (What makes this especially impressive is that he was born with only one hand – icot)

    2004 Hurricane Frances hits Florida, causing $40 billion in damage.

    2006 “Crocodile Hunter” Steve Irwin, 44, died after a stingray’s barb pierced his chest.

    2007 Toy maker Mattel Inc. recalled 800,000 lead-tainted, Chinese-made toys worldwide, a third major recall in just over a month.

    2008 Sen. John McCain accepted the Republican presidential nomination at the party’s convention in St. Paul, Minn.

    2008 Detroit Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick pleaded guilty to obstruction of justice, forcing the Democrat out of office after months of defiantly holding onto his job.


    Elul 15

    In 1827, Czar Nicholas I decreed that all Jewish boys be forcibly conscripted into the Russian Army at age 12. Called “cantonists,” these boys were kidnapped from their parents’ home, and tortured repeatedly with the implication that conditions would improve if they’d accept Christianity. (Many died of their wounds.) The boys were indoctrinated in military prep school until age 18, and thereafter served 25 years in the army. The authorities saw it as a corrective, forced assimilation of stubborn Jews into Russian society, and as a way to undermine the authority of Jewish communal leaders. Some 50,000 Jewish boys were forced into Czar Nicholas’ army, and most never returned to the families they had left at age 12. The policy was abolished in 1855, with the death of Nicholas.


    1698 Russia’s Peter the Great imposed a tax on beards.

    1774 The first Continental Congress assembled in Philadelphia.

    1793 The Reign of Terror began during the French Revolution as the National Convention instituted harsh measures to repress counterrevolutionary activities.

    1836 Sam Houston was elected president of the Republic of Texas.

    1882 The nation’s first Labor Day parade was held in New York City.

    1905 The Treaty of Portsmouth, ending the Russo-Japanese War, was signed in New Hampshire.

    1914 The First Battle of the Marne began during World War I.

    1939 The United States proclaimed its neutrality in World War II.

    1945 Iva Toguri D’Aquino, a Japanese-American suspected of being wartime radio propagandist “Tokyo Rose,” was arrested in Yokohama.

    1957 “On the Road” by Jack Kerouac, the defining novel of the Beat Generation, was published.

    1958 “Doctor Zhivago” by Russian author Boris Pasternak was published in the United States.

    1972 Palestinian terrorists attacked the Israeli Olympic team at the summer games in Munich; 11 Israeli athletes and coaches, five terrorists and a police officer were killed.*

    1975 President Gerald R. Ford escaped an attempt on his life in Sacramento, Calif., by Lynette “Squeaky” Fromme, a follower of Charles Manson. (The would-be assassin is no relation to a certain prominent CR poster.)

    1977 The United States launched the Voyager 1 spacecraft two weeks after launching its twin, Voyager 2.

    1997 Nobel Peace Prize winner Mother Teresa died in Calcutta, India, at age 87.

    2005 President George W. Bush nominated John Roberts for chief justice.

    2008 Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice became the highest-ranking American official in half a century to visit Libya, where she met Moammar Gadhafi.

    *Two Israelis died during the actual attack, including one who heroically held the door against the invading terrorists, which allowed others to escape with their lives.

    The remaining nine victims were cold-bloodedly murdered with grenades and gunfire by the Arab terrorists while the Israelis were helplessly bound.

    In a shocking display of callousness, the Olympic games continued after the massacre, without even a postponement of events.

    Wrestling coach Moshe Weinberg, 33

    Weightlifter Yossef Romano, 31

    Wrestling referee Yossef Gutfreund, 40

    American-born weightlifter David Berger, 28

    Wrestler Mark Slavin, 18

    Weightlifting judge Yacov Springer, 51

    Weightlifter Ze’ev Friedman, 28

    Track coach Amitzur Shapira, 40

    Wrestler Eliezer Halfin, 24

    Shooting coach Kehat Shorr, 53

    Fencing coach Andre Spitzer, 27

    Three terrorists were captured alive.

    A little over a month later, on Oct. 29, a Lufthansa jet was hijacked by terrorists demanding that the Munich killers be released.

    The Germans capitulated and the terrorists were released.

    An Israeli assassination squad was assigned to track them down, along with those responsible for planning the massacre. According to George Jonas in Vengeance: The True Story of an Israeli Counter-Terrorist Team, eight of the 11 targeted for death were killed. Of the remaining three, one died of natural causes and the other two were assassinated, but it is not known with certainty if they were killed by Israeli agents.

    Abu Daoud, the mastermind behind the attack was arrested by France in 1977, but the French cravenly let him leave to Algeria despite requests from both Wast Germany and Israel for his extradition. Daoud denied his role for years, until openly admitting it in his 1999 autobiography Palestine: From Jerusalem to Munich or Memoirs of a Palestinian Terrorist .

    Abu Daoud was a member of the Palestinian government, and in 1996 was allowed safe transit thru Israel.

    Daoud continues to live freely, supposedly in Damascus at this time, and has to date not been brought to justice.

    (portions cut-and-pasted from online sources)


    ICOT: What gives you confidence that there is no relation between that 1975 persona and the poster? A fellow poster has conspicuously referred to the other by that very nickname.


    1901 President William B. McKinley was shot and mortally wounded by anarchist Leon Czolgosz at the Pan-American Exposition in Buffalo, N.Y. (McKinley is one of two assassinated U.S. presidents who should have survived his wounds [Garfield was the other]. Due to procedural errors and poor decisions made after he was shot, he died eight days after the shooting. His vice-president, Theodore Roosevelt, was and remains the youngest person to assume the presidency.)

    1909 American explorer Robert Peary sent word that he had reached the North Pole five months earlier. (There is some controversy to this claim. There are serious questions as to whether Peary ever reached the North Pole)

    1916 The first self-service grocery store, Piggly Wiggly, was opened in Memphis, Tenn., by Clarence Saunders. (This is widely recognized as the world’s first supermarket, where shoppers walked the aisles and picked out their own goods.)

    1941 Jews over the age of 6 in German-occupied areas were ordered to wear yellow Stars of David.(The “yellow star” requirement for Jews was revived by the Taliban, about 60 years later.)

    1970 Palestinian guerrillas seized control of three jetliners, which were later blown up on the ground in Jordan after the passengers and crews were evacuated.

    1975 Czechoslovakian tennis player Martina Navratilova, in New York for the U.S. Open, requested political asylum.

    1992 A man who had received a transplanted baboon liver 10 weeks earlier died at the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center.

    1996 Eddie Murray of the Baltimore Orioles hit his 500th career home run during a game against the Detroit Tigers.

    1997 Britain bade farewell to Princess Diana with a funeral service at Westminster Abbey.

    1998 Japanese director Akira Kurosawa died at age 88.

    2001 Barry Bonds of the San Francisco Giants became the fifth player in baseball history to hit 60 home runs in a season. (He finished the year with a record 73 homers.) (Ahhh – the miracle of modern medicine!)

    2002 Meeting outside Washington D.C., for only the second time since 1800, Congress convened in New York to pay homage to the victims and heroes of Sept. 11, 2001.

    2004 Former President Bill Clinton underwent successful heart bypass surgery.

    2006 President George W. Bush acknowledged previously secret CIA prisons around the world and said 14 high-value terrorism suspects had been transferred from the system to Guantanamo Bay for trials.

    2007 Opera singer Luciano Pavarotti died at age 71.


    His vice-president, Theodore Roosevelt, was and remains the youngest person to assume the presidency.

    Its funny how the establishment tries to tout JFK as the youngest. Most people will respond JFK was the youngest President.



    This is a machlokes among trivia buffs.

    I think a trivia show was actually sued in court by a contestant who answered that Kennedy was the youngest inaugurated president. His (I believe incorrect) argument was that succession following an assassination wasn’t inauguration. I don’t know what the verdict was.


    ICOT – I hear. Once can introduce all sorts of verbal “tricks” to make JFK the youngest “elected” President, “inaugurated” etc. But the fact remains Roosevelt was the youngest President period. The establishment does this to turn JFK into some sort of saint.


    Sept. 7 historic events

    70 C.E. A Roman army under General Titus occupies and plunders Jerusalem.

    1533 England’s Queen Elizabeth I was born in Greenwich.

    1822 Brazil declared its independence from Portugal.

    1901 The Peace of Beijing ended the Boxer Rebellion in China.

    1927 TV pioneer Philo T. Farnsworth succeeded in transmitting an image through purely electronic means by using a device called an image dissector. (a.k.a. television)

    1940 the German air force began its blitz on London during World War II. (A few years later, the U.S. and Britain repaid the favor, bombing and largely leveling parts of Berlin, Dresden and Hamburg.)

    1963 The Pro Football Hall of Fame was dedicated in Canton, Ohio.

    1969 Senate Republican leader Everett M. Dirksen of Illinois died at age 73.

    1977 The Panama Canal treaties, calling for the United States to turn over control of the waterway to Panama, were signed in Washington, D.C.

    1977 Convicted Watergate conspirator G. Gordon Liddy was released after serving more than four years in prison.

    1986 Desmond Tutu was installed as the first black to lead the Anglican Church in southern Africa.

    1990 Kimberly Bergalis of Fort Pierce, Fla., came forward to identify herself as the woman who had been infected with AIDS, apparently by her late dentist. (She died the following year.) (She and several other patients of Dr. Jefferey Acer contracted AIDS. Although a motive was never uncovered, medical experts concluded that Acer, for reasons unknown, had deliberately infected them.)

    1996 Rapper Tupac Shakur was shot on the Las Vegas Strip; he died six days later at age 25.

    1997 Mobutu Sese Seko, the former dictator of Zaire, died in exile in Morocco at age 66.

    1998 St. Louis Cardinals slugger Mark McGwire equaled Roger Maris’ single-season home run record as he hit No. 61 in a game against the Chicago Cubs. (Years later, when questioned by the senate about steroid use, he responded “I’m not going to go into the past or talk about my past”.)

    2006 Former Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage confirmed he was the source of a leak that had disclosed the identity of CIA employee Valerie Plame, saying he didn’t realize Plame’s job was covert.

    2008 Troubled mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were placed in government conservatorship. (…to be followed by bailouts of Citibank, Chrysler, GM, Bank of America…)


    70 C.E. A Roman army under General Titus occupies and plunders Jerusalem.

    Is the year 70 C.E. not in fact possibly off by 1-2 years perhaps?



    Yes, the current secular year system was not used in those days.

    Several years ago a magazine article (I think it was in the J.O., titled “nnnn? Says Who?” with “nnnn” being the secular year, but I’m not positive) explained that the secular years which are numbered after yoshko were first used hundreds of years after his death on a “best guess” basis, and may in actuality be way off.


    ICOT: Your point, while correct, I believe is a separate issue than dating the year of the Churban Bayis Sheini on the secular calendar.


    I can only try



    Yes, the current secular year system was not used in those days.

    Several years ago a magazine article (I think it was in the J.O., titled “nnnn? Says Who?” with “nnnn” being the secular year, but I’m not positive) explained that the secular years which are numbered after yoshko were first used hundreds of years after his death on a “best guess” basis, and may in actuality be way off.

    Very interesting point, ICOT.


    I can only try


    1975 President Gerald R. Ford escaped an attempt on his life in Sacramento, Calif., by Lynette “Squeaky” Fromme, a follower of Charles Manson. (The would-be assassin is no relation to a certain prominent CR poster.)

    You say that with such certainty….. it makes me wonder…..


    squeak, you’d be the only one to know for sure…



    I have a reply, but am afraid it may antagonize certain posters.

    Therefore, my three-meter-plus (he has a glandular problem) neighbor, Janik, has kindly agreed to protect me.

    On second thought, my comment may be best left untouched, even with a ten-foot-Pole.


    Sept. 8 historic events

    70 C.E. Roman forces under Titus sack Jerusalem.

    1264 The Statute of Kalisz, guaranteeing Jews safety and personal liberties and giving battei din jurisdiction over Jewish matters, is promulgated by Boleslaus the Pious, Duke of Greater Poland. (If you have a couple of minutes, I recommend reading the full Wikipedia article.)

    1565 A Spanish expedition established the first permanent European settlement in North America at present-day St. Augustine, Fla.

    1664 The Dutch surrendered New Amsterdam to the British, who renamed it New York. (Bedford-Stuyvesant a.k.a. Bed-Stuy bears the name of Dutch governor Peter Stuyvesant.)

    1900 Galveston, Texas, was struck by a hurricane that killed about 6,000 people. ( A major cause of the scope of the disaster and loss of life was the fact that Galveston was only a few feet above sea level, and natural protective sand barriers had been removed for use in landscaping other parts of the island. To date no one knows exactly how many people were lost, with estimates of 6,000 – 12,000.)

    1935 Sen. Huey P. Long, the “Kingfish” of Louisiana politics, was shot at the state capital building in Baton Rouge; he died two days later.

    1941 A 900-day siege of Leningrad by German forces began during World War II.

    2003 The Recording Industry Association of America filed 261 copyright lawsuits against Internet users for trading songs online.

    2004 “60 Minutes Wednesday” aired a report questioning President George W. Bush’s National Guard service. CBS News later apologized for a “mistake in judgment” after memos featured in the report were challenged as forgeries. (What a nice, genteel way of putting it – “challenged as forgeries”. Actually, they were proven forgeries by a conservative blogger, who demonstrated that the documents exactly matched the default font, font-size, spacing and line setup of Microsoft Word default settings. Dan Rather continued to insist on the documents’ authenticity well after most other media considered them forgeries. This continued a pattern of Bush-hatred by Rather, who years earlier had all-but-called Bush Sr. a liar in an interview, rudely cut him off, and put words in his mouth. Rather’s resignation shortly after the forged documents scandal broke was attributed to his embarrassing CBS with his behavior.)

    2006 A Senate report faulted intelligence gathering in the lead-up to the 2003 U.S. invasion of Iraq, and said Saddam Hussein regarded al-Qaida as a threat rather than a possible ally, contradicting assertions President George W. Bush had used to build support for the war.


    Elul 19

    In 1941, Charles Lindbergh, who achieved fame by being the first person to fly solo across the Atlantic Ocean, delivered an anti-Semitic speech on the radio. Lindbergh became an outspoken supporter of Nazi Germany, even recommending in testimony before Congress that the U.S. negotiate a neutrality pact with Germany. At a rally in Des Moines, Iowa, he made an infamous speech claiming that Jews, “for reasons which are not American, wish to involve us in the war… We cannot allow the natural passions and prejudices of other people to lead our country to destruction.” Lindbergh also made an implicit threat against Jews, stating: “Instead of agitating for war, the Jewish groups in this country should be opposing it in every possible way, for they will be among the first to feel its consequences.


    Sept. 9 historic events

    1543 Mary Stuart, at nine months old, is crowned “Queen of Scots” in the central Scottish town of Stirling. (She was executed for treason at age 44 under the orders of her cousin Elizabeth.)

    1739 Stono Rebellion, the largest slave uprising in Britain’s mainland North American colonies prior to the American Revolution, erupts near Charleston, South Carolina.

    1776 The Continental Congress officially names their new union of sovereign states the United States.

    1791 Washington, D.C., the capital of the United States, is named after President George Washington.

    1839 John Herschel takes the first glass plate photograph.

    1863 American Civil War: The Union Army enters Chattanooga, Tennessee.

    1893 President Grover Cleveland’s daughter, Esther Cleveland, became the first president’s child to be born in the White House.

    1914 Battle of Marne (German advance stalls, Paris saved)

    1922 Greco-Turkish War of 1919-1922 has ended with Turkish victory over the Greeks.

    1926 The U.S. National Broadcasting Company formed.

    1942 World War II: A Japanese floatplane drops an incendiary bomb on Oregon.

    1943 World War II: The Allies land at Salerno and Taranto, Italy.

    1944 World War II: The Fatherland Front takes power in Bulgaria through a military coup in the capital and armed rebellion in the country. A new pro-Soviet government is established.

    1945 Second Sino-Japanese War: Japan formally surrenders to China.

    1947 First actual case of a computer bug being found: a moth lodges in a relay of a Harvard Mark II computer at Harvard University. Ir was discovered by Grace Hopper, removed with tweasers from a relay, and taped into the log. (Yes, this is where the term “computer bug” comes from.)

    1948 The Republic Day of Democratic People’s Republic of Korea. (“Democratic People’s Republic of Korea” – three lies in one four-word title.)

    1963 Alabama Governor George Wallace served a federal injunction to stop orders of state police to bar black students from enrolling in white schools.

    1965 The United States Department of Housing and Urban Development is established.

    1965 Sandy Koufax pitches his 4th no-hitter, a perfect game vs Cubs (1-0).

    1969 Allegheny Airlines Flight 853 DC-9 collides in flight with a Piper PA-28 and crashes near Fairland, Indiana. ( New air-safety regulations were developed as a result of this crash.)

    1971 The four-day Attica Prison riot begins, which eventually results in 39 dead, most killed by state troopers retaking the prison.

    1976 Communist Chinese leader Mao Tse-tung died in Beijing at age 82. (His “cultural revolution”, “long march”, and other actions cost millions of innocents their lives.)

    1990 Batticaloa massacre, massacre of 184 minority Tamil civilians by Sri Lankan Army in the eastern Batticaloa District of Sri Lanka.

    1991 Tajikstan gains independence from the Soviet Union.

    1993 The Palestine Liberation Organization agreed to recognize Israel’s right to exist, and Israel agreed to recognize the PLO as the representative of the Palestinian people. (Arafat [ym”s] explained to Arab audiences that this was merely a step in the eventual conquest of the entire Israel, similar to a treaty that Muhammed only abided by until he was militarily strong, at which point he tore it up.)

    1995 Dean St. Station in Brooklyn, is 6th Metropolitan Transportation Authority station to close since 1904.

    1999 The Dreamcast, the last video game console to be produced by SEGA, is released.

    2001 Afghanistan’s military opposition leader Ahmed Shah Massood was fatally wounded in a suicide attack by assassins posing as journalists. (Massood was murdered by Al-Qaeda to prevent his helping U.S. efforts against the Taliban and themselves after the planned 9/11 attacks.)

    2004 Australian embassy bombing: A bomb explodes outside the Australian embassy in Jakarta, killing 10 people.

    2005 Federal Emergency Management Agency Director Michael Brown, the principal target of harsh criticism of the Bush administration’s response to Hurricane Katrina, was relieved of his onsite command. (But not before becoming the object of the famous “Great job, Brownie!” line.)


    ICOT: seems like you got the night off! so i’ll take ya over! 😉

    Sept. 10th this date in history:

    1997 – Mark McGwire joins Babe as only players to hit 50 home runs in 2 consec yrs

    1993 – 1,000 Boeing 747 jumbo planes produced

    1993 – Israel and PLO sign joint recognition statements

    1992 – Lucy in Peanuts comics raises her Pyschiatric Help from 5 cents to 47 cents charlie brown, where are you?! time to pay us a visit!

    1990 – Ellis Island reopens as a museum

    1990 – George Bush and Mikhail Gorbachev meet in Helsinki

    1990 – Iran agrees to resume diplomatic ties with Iraq

    1990 – 1st time in New York Yankee history they are completely swept season series, Oakland A’s beat them 12 games to 0

    1989 – East Germans begin their flight to west (via Hungary and Czechoslovakia)

    1988 – Hurricane Gilbert, kills 300 in Jamaica, Texas and Yucatan

    1979 – 3 Puerto Rican nationalists who attempted to kill Truman are freed

    1978 – 4th game of Boston Massacre; Yankees beat Red Sox 7-4. This ties them for 1st place. Yankees out hit ’em 67-21; score 42-9

    1976 – 2 airliners collide over Yugoslavia, kills all 176 aboard

    1976 – 5 Croatian terrorists capture TWA-plane at La Guardia Airport, New York

    1972 – 20th Olympic games close at Munich, West Germany

    1964 – Palestinian Liberation Army (PLA) forms

    1954 – 12 second shock kills 1,460 in Orleansville Algeria

    1951 – British begins economic boycott of Iran

    1950 – Joe DiMaggio becomes 1st to hit 3 HR in a game at Griffith Stadium

    1939 – In WW II, Canada declared war on Germany

    1926 – Germany joins League of Nations

    1923 – Irish Free state joins League of Nations my hometown makes it into history!

    1918 – Players on both sides threaten to strike the World Series unless they are guaranteed $2,500 to the winners and $1,000 each for the losers

    1776 – George Washington asks for a spy volunteer, Nathan Hale volunteers

    1349 – Jews who survived a massacre in Constance Germany are burned to death

    1608 – John Smith elected president of Jamestown colony council, Va



    Thanks very much!

    I wonder where “YW Moderator-39” is – we haven’t seen him post recently.


    icot: my pleasure! Ya i hope 39 is doing ok on the other side of the pond!


    maybe he’s shteiging?


    Sept. 11 historic events

    1609 Henry Hudson discovers Manhattan Island and the natives living there. (Although Indians were living there at the time, Hudson “discovered” it. Kind of like “Today I took the subway to work, and discovered 50th Street.”)

    1789 Alexander Hamilton was appointed the first secretary of the treasury.

    1792 The Hope Diamond is stolen along with other crown jewels when six men break into the house used to store the jewels.

    1814 An American fleet scored a decisive victory over the British in the Battle of Lake Champlain during the War of 1812.

    1885 Author D.H. Lawrence was born in Eastwood, England.

    1921 Nahalal, the first moshav in Israel, is settled.

    1922 The British Mandate of Palestine begins.

    1936 President Franklin D. Roosevelt dedicated Boulder Dam (now Hoover Dam) in Nevada by pressing a key in Washington to signal the startup of the dam’s first hydroelectric generator.

    1941 Charles A. Lindbergh sparked charges of anti-Semitism with a speech in which he blamed “the British, the Jewish and the Roosevelt administration” for trying to draw the United States into World War II. (charges of anti-Semitism”? He was a known anti-Semite, Nazi-sympathizer and America-firster.)

    1970 88 of the hostages from the Dawson’s Field hijackings are released. The remaining hostages, mostly Jews and Israeli citizens, are held until September 25.

    1971 Former Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev died at age 77.

    1973 Chilean President Salvador Allende died in a violent military coup.

    1982 The international forces that were guaranteeing the safety of Palestinian refugees following Israel’s 1982 Invasion of Lebanon leave Beirut. Five days later, several thousand refugees are massacred in the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps. (Feeling confident that Israel would never release top-secret documents proving them wrong, Time magazine accuses Ariel Sharon of being complicit in the massacre. Sharon sues Time for libel, and Israel releases the documents. Although the Time story is proven to be both false and written with a reckless disregard of the truth, Sharon fails to win monetary compensation, since malicious intent was not proven.

    1985 Pete Rose of the Cincinnati Reds recorded his 4,192nd hit, breaking Ty Cobb’s career record.

    1987 CBS went black for six minutes after anchorman Dan Rather walked off the set of “The CBS Evening News” because a tennis tournament being carried by the network ran overtime.

    1997 Scots voted to create their own Parliament after 290 years of union with England.

    1998 Independent counsel Kenneth Starr sends a report to the U.S. Congress accusing President Bill Clinton of 11 possible impeachable offenses.

    2001 Suicide hijackers crashed two airliners into the World Trade Center in New York, causing the 110-story twin towers to collapse. Another hijacked airliner hit the Pentagon and a fourth crashed in a field in Pennsylvania.

    YWN video here:

    YWN thread here:


    2002 Football Hall of Famer Johnny Unitas died at age 69.

    2002 The Pentagon is rededicated after repairs are completed, exactly one year after the attack on the building.

    2003 Swedish Foreign Minister Anna Lindh died from stab wounds inflicted when she was attacked in a Stockholm department store a day earlier.

    2005 The State of Israel completes its unilateral disengagement from the Gaza Strip. (The folly of the unilateral retreat from Gaza is apparent from the destruction of Gush Katif and other communities, the takeover by Hamas, which declared its intention not to abide by any agreements reached by the Israeli government and the PA, the kidnapping of Gilad Shalit and the murder of his comrades, the non-stop rocket attacks that rendered Sderot all-but-uninhabitable, and the subsequent “Cast Lead” invasion and its resulting casualties.)

    2007 China signed an agreement to prohibit the use of lead paint on toys exported to the United States. (Now if they’d only prohibit anti-freeze in toothpaste and pet-food, and the evisceration of prisoners in order to sell black-market organs…)

    2007 Russia tests the largest conventional weapon ever, the Father of all bombs.


    Elul 22

    In 1939, during the Polish September Campaign, the Nazis occupied Krakow, Poland, a thriving Jewish community of 70,000 Jews. Jews were consigned to forced labor, and all Jews were required to wear identifying armbands. Synagogues were ordered closed and all their valuables turned over to Nazi authorities. In May 1940, the Nazis ordered a massive deportation of Jews from the city, leaving only 15,000 behind in Krakow’s Jewish ghetto, crammed into 3,000 rooms. German businessman Oskar Schindler came to Krakow to take advantage of the ghetto labor, and subsequently worked furiously to save Jews, as portrayed in the film, Schindler’s List. In March 1943, the Nazis carried out the final ‘liquidation’ of the ghetto.


    ICOT: those dates were for 9/11 not 9/9 pal!




    Thank you for catching it.

    If a mod would be so kind as to fix my date error, I’d appreciate it.


    Sept. 12 historic events

    1609 Henry Hudson began his exploration of the Hudson River while aboard the Halve Maen. (“Half Moon” to us English-speakers.)

    1814 Battle of North Point: an American detachment halts the British land advance to Baltimore in the War of 1812.

    1857 The SS Central America sinks about 160 miles east of Cape Hatteras, North Carolina, drowning a total of 426 passengers and crew, including Captain William Lewis Herndon. The ship was carrying 13-15 tons of gold from the San Francisco Gold Rush. (A treasure-trove of gold coins [over $100,000,000] has been recovered from the wreck in recent years.)

    1918 U.S. forces led by Gen. John J. Pershing launched a successful attack on the German-occupied St. Mihiel salient north of Verdun, France, during World War I.

    1919 Adolf Hitler YM”S joins the German Workers Party.

    1938 Adolf Hitler demands autonomy and self-determination for the Germans of the Sudetenland region of Czechoslovakia.

    1940 Cave paintings are discovered in Lascaux, France.

    1942 World War II: RMS Laconia, carrying civilians, Allied soldiers and Italian POWs is torpedoed off the coast of West Africa and sinks.

    1942 World War II: First day of the Battle of Edson’s Ridge during the Guadalcanal campaign. U.S. Marines protecting Henderson Field on Guadalcanal are attacked by Imperial Japanese Army forces.

    1943 World War II: Benito Mussolini, dictator of Italy, is rescued from house arrest on the Gran Sasso in Abruzzi, by German commando forces led by Otto Skorzeny. (He was later captured and executed by Italian partisans.)

    1953 Massachusetts Sen. John F. Kennedy married Jacqueline Lee Bouvier in Newport, R.I.

    1958 Jack Kilby demonstrates the first integrated circuit.

    1959 The Soviet Union launches a large rocket, Lunik II, at the moon.

    1966 Gemini 11, the penultimate mission of NASA’s Gemini program, and the current human altitude record holder (except for the Apollo lunar missions).

    1970 Palestinian terrorists blow up three hijacked airliners in Jordan, continuing to hold the passengers hostage in various undisclosed locations in Amman.

    1974 Emperor Haile Selassie of Ethiopia, ‘Messiah’ of the Rastafari movement, is deposed following a military coup by the Derg, ending a reign of 58 years.

    1977 South African anti-apartheid activist Steve Biko is killed in police custody.

    1983 A Wells Fargo depot in West Hartford, Connecticut, United States, is robbed of approximately $7,000,000 by Los Macheteros.

    1983 The USSR vetoes a UN Security Council Resolution deploring the Soviet shooting down of a Korean civilian jetliner on September 1. (The Soviet pilots involved in the shoot-down knew it was a civilian airliner, as transcripts of their radio conversations revealed that they saw its navigation lights blinking. After initially lying about the shoot-down, the Soviet Union admitted to it, but claimed that the plane was on a spy mission for the U.S. The full story is too long to post here, but evidence indicates that this was a cold-blooded shootdown of a known civillian airliner, with the resulting deaths of all passenfers and crew aboard.)

    1990 The two German states and the Four Powers sign the Treaty on the Final Settlement With Respect to Germany in Moscow, paving the way for German re-unification.

    1992 NASA launches Space Shuttle Endeavour on STS-47 which marked the 50th shuttle mission. On board are Mae Carol Jemison, the first African-American woman in space, Mamoru Mohri, the first Japanese citizen to fly in a US spaceship, and Mark Lee and Jan Davis, the first married couple in space.

    2001 President George W. Bush labeled the previous day’s terrorist attacks “acts of war” and asked Congress for $20 billion to rebuild and recover.

    2002 President George W. Bush told skeptical world leaders at the United Nations to confront the “grave and gathering danger” of Saddam Hussein’s Iraq or stand aside as the United States acted.

    2003 The United Nations lifts sanctions against Libya after that country agreed to accept responsibility and recompense the families of victims in the 1988 bombing of Pan Am Flight 103.

    2005 Federal Emergency Management Agency director Michael Brown resigned, three days after losing his onsite command of the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.

    2006 In a speech in his native Germany, Pope Benedict XVI quoted from an obscure medieval text that characterized some teachings of Islam’s founder as “evil and inhuman,” unleashing a torrent of rage across the Islamic world.

    2008 A Metrolink commuter train struck a freight train head-on in Los Angeles, killing 25 people. (Federal investigators have said the Metrolink engineer, Robert Sanchez, had been text-messaging on his cell phone and ran a red light shortly before the crash.)

    (Thank you to whoever corrected the earlier post.)


    Sept. 13 historic events

    1759 During the final French and Indian War, the British defeated the French on the Plains of Abraham overlooking Quebec City.

    1788 The United States’ Philadelphia Convention sets the date for the country’s first presidential election, and New York City becomes the temporary capital of the U.S..

    1814 The British fail to capture Baltimore, Maryland. Turning point in the War of 1812.

    1814 Francis Scott Key writes The Star-Spangled Banner.

    1848 Vermont railroad worker Phineas Gage incredibly survives a 3-foot-plus iron rod being driven through his head; the reported effects on his behavior and personality stimulate thinking about the nature of the brain and its functions.

    1943 Chiang Kai-shek became president of China.

    1948 Republican Margaret Chase Smith of Maine was elected to the U.S. Senate, becoming the first woman to serve in both houses of Congress.

    1953 Nikita Khrushchev appointed secretary-general of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union.

    1971 A four-day inmates’ rebellion at the Attica Correctional Facility in upstate New York ended as police and guards stormed the prison; the ordeal and final assault claimed 43 lives.

    1993 Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin and PLO chairman Yasser Arafat shook hands at the White House after signing an accord granting limited Palestinian autonomy.

    1997 Funeral services were held in Calcutta, India, for Nobel peace laureate Mother Teresa.

    1998 Former Alabama Gov. George C. Wallace died at age 79.

    1999 A bomb blamed by authorities on Chechen rebels devastated an eight-story apartment building in Moscow, killing at least 124 people.

    2000 Former Los Alamos scientist Wen Ho Lee pleaded guilty in Albuquerque, N.M., to one count of mishandling nuclear secrets. Lee, who had been held in solitary confinement for nine months, was set free with an apology from U.S. District Judge James Parker.

    2001 Secretary of State Colin Powell named Osama bin Laden as the prime suspect in the terror attacks on the United States; limited commercial flights resumed for the first time in two days.

    2006 Former Texas Gov. Ann Richards died at age 73.

    2008 Hurricane Ike makes landfall on the Texas Gulf Coast of the United States, causing heavy damage to Galveston Island, Houston and surrounding areas.


    Sept. 14th in history:

    1994 – All 28 baseball owners vote to cancel rest of 1994 season

    1992 – 1st subway car completed to be exported from U.S. (to Taiwan)

    1986 – Bomb attack in Paris, 2 killed

    1986 – Bomb explosion on airport Kimpo at Seoul, 5 killed

    1984 1st MTV awards-Bette Midler and Dan Aykroyd host

    1983 – U.S. House of Representatives votes, 416 to 0, in favor of a resolution condemning Russia for shooting down a Korean jetliner

    1979 – Theodore Coombs completes 5,193 mile roller skate from LA to New York City and back to Yates Center, Ks

    1975 – Rembrandts “Nightwatch” slashed and damaged in Amsterdam

    1974 – Charles Kowal discovers Leda, 13th satellite of Jupiter

    1973 – Israel shoots down 13 Syrian MIG-21s

    1973 – President Nixon signed into law a measure lifting pro football’s blackout

    1972 – West Germany and Poland establish diplomatic relations

    1964 – Walt Disney awarded Medal of Freedom at White House

    1963 -Mary Ann Fischer, Aberdeen, South Dakota, gave birth to America’s 1st surviving quintuplets, 4 girls and a boy

    1960 – Iraq, Iran, Kuwait, Saudi-Arabia and Venezuela form OPEC

    1956 – 1st prefrontal lobotomy performed, Washington D.C.

    1954 – Hurricane Edna (2nd of 1954) hits New York City, $50 million damage

    1948 – Ground breaking ceremony for United Nations world headquarters

    1930 – Nazis gain 107 seats in German election

    1903 – New York Giant Red Ames no-hits St. Louis, 5-0 in a 5 inning game hmmmmmmm interesting….>/strong>

    1891 – “Empire State Express” train goes from New York City to East Buffalo, a distance of 436 miles, in a record 7H6M

    anon for this

    Jax, I think Rosemary Kennedy had a prefrontal lobotomy in 1941.


    Sept. 15 historic events

    1776 American Revolutionary War: British forces land at Kip’s Bay during the New York Campaign and occupy New York City.

    1789 The United States Department of State is established (formerly known as Department of Foreign Affairs).

    1812 The French army under Napoleon reaches the Kremlin in Moscow.

    1831 The locomotive John Bull operates for the first time in New Jersey on the Camden and Amboy Railroad.

    1862 American Civil War: Confederate forces capture Harpers Ferry, Virginia.

    1873 Franco-Prussian War: The last German troops leave France upon completion of payment of indemnity.

    1935 Nuremberg Laws deprive German Jews of citizenship.

    1940 World War II: The climax of the Battle of Britain, when the Royal Air Force shoots down large numbers of Luftwaffe aircraft.

    1942 World War II: U.S. Navy aircraft carrier USS Wasp is torpedoed and sunk at Guadalcanal.

    1944 Franklin D. Roosevelt and Winston Churchill meet in Quebec as part of the Octagon Conference to discuss strategy.

    1947 Typhoon Kathleen hit the Kanto Region in Japan killing 1,077.

    1948 The F86 Sabre sets the world aircraft speed record at 671 mph (1080 km/h).

    1950 Korean War: United States forces land at Inchon in the south and began their drive toward Seoul.

    1958 A Central Railroad of New Jersey commuter train runs through an open drawbridge at the Newark Bay, killing 58.

    1959 Nikita Khrushchev becomes the first Soviet leader to visit the United States.

    1962 The Soviet ship Poltava heads toward Cuba, one of the events that sets into motion the Cuban Missile Crisis.

    1963 The 16th Street Baptist Church bombing: Four black girls were killed when a bomb went off during Sunday services at a Baptist church in Birmingham, Alabama, in the deadliest act of the civil rights era. (The KKK planted 122 sticks of dynamite which killed three 14-year-olds and an eleven-year-old.)

    1966 U.S. President Lyndon B. Johnson, responding to a sniper attack at the University of Texas at Austin, writes a letter to Congress urging the enactment of gun control legislation. (This attack by Charles Whitman and the lack of police training for such a situation led to the formation of SWAT police units.)

    1968 The Soviet Zond 5 spaceship is launched, becoming the first spacecraft to fly around the Moon and reenter the Earth’s atmosphere.

    1974 Air Vietnam flight 727 is hijacked, then crashes while attempting to land with 75 on board.

    1981 The Senate Judiciary Committee unanimously approves Sandra Day O’Connor to become the first female justice of the Supreme Court of the United States

    1981 The John Bull becomes the oldest operable steam locomotive in the world when the Smithsonian Institution operates it under its own power outside Washington, D.C.

    1987 United States Secretary of State George Shultz and Soviet Foreign Minister Eduard Shevardnadze sign a treaty to establish centers to reduce the risk of nuclear war.

    2004 National Hockey League commissioner Gary Bettman announces lockout of the players union and cessation of operations by the NHL head office.

    2005 President George W. Bush, addressing the nation from storm-ravaged New Orleans, acknowledged the government failed to respond adequately to Hurricane Katrina and urged Congress to approve a massive reconstruction program.

    2008 Lehman Brothers files for Chapter 11 bankruptcy, the largest bankruptcy filing in U.S. History.


    I can only try: very cool about the SWAT team one! tomorrow night is my night to post them!


    Sept. 16 in history:

    1997 – Apple Computer Inc names co-founder Steve Jobs temporary CEO

    1997 – Mark McGwire signs with the St. Louis Cardinals for $26M

    1996 – Space Shuttle STS-79 (Atlantis 17), launches into space

    1994 Fire Department puts out smokey electrical fire in White House

    1992 900 die in flood in Pakistan

    1990 101 year old Sam Ackerman weds 95 year old Eva in New Rochelle, New York

    1990 Iraq televises an 8 minute uncensored speech from George Bush

    1982 Massacre of 1000+ Palestinian refugees at Chatila and Sabra begins

    1978 25,000 die in 7.7 earthquake in Tabar Iran

    1979 Coup in Afghanistan under Hafizullah Amin

    1971 6 Klansmen arrested in connection with bombing of 10 school buses

    1970 Jordan king Hussein forms military government

    1957 Coup in Thailand (Premier Songgram deposed)

    1957 LA City Council approves 300-acre site in Chavez Ravine for Dodgers

    1955 Yankee Mickey Mantle pulls a hamstring muscle running out a bunt

    1945 Barometric pressure at 856 mb (25.55″) off Okinawa (record low)

    1941 German armour troops surround Kiev Ukraine

    1941 Hitler orders for every dead German, 100 Yugoslavian be killed

    1941 Jews of Vilna Poland confined to Ghetto

    1940 Franklin D. Roosevelt signs Selective Training and Service Act (1st peacetime draft)

    1940 Leo Durocher suspended from Ebbetts Field for “inciting a riot”

    1940 Samuel T. Rayburn of Texas elected speaker of House

    1939 New York Yankees clinch their 11th and 4th successive pennant

    1928 Hurricane hits West Palm

    Beach-Lake Okeechobee Florida; 3,000 die

    1926 Hurricane in Florida and Alabama, kills 372

    1920 Bomb explosion in Wall Street, kills 30

    1915 Czar Nicolas II adjourns 4th Duma

    1915 U.S. takes control of customs and finances of Haiti for 10 years

    1913 1000s of women demonstrate for Dutch female suffrage

    1908 Carriage-maker, William Durant, founded General Motors Corp

    1908 William Crapo Durant incorporates General Motors in Janesville Wisc

    1906 Roald Amundsen discovers Magnetic South Pole

    1862 Battle of Antietam, bloodiest day in Civil War (Sharpsburg Md)

    1861 British Post Office Savings Banks opens

    1858 1st overland mail for California


    Sept. 17 historic events

    1630 The city of Boston, Massachusetts is founded.

    1683 Antonie van Leeuwenhoek writes a letter to the Royal Society describing “animalcules”: the first known description of protozoa.

    1787 The United States Constitution is signed in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.

    1814 Francis Scott Key finishes his poem The Star-Spangled Banner.

    1862 American Civil War: George B. McClellan’s Union forces halt the northward drive of Robert E. Lee’s Confederate army’s invasion of Maryland in the single-day Battle of Antietam. With 23,100 killed, wounded or captured, it remains the bloodiest day in U.S. military history.

    1908 The Wright Flyer flown by Orville Wright, with Lieutenant Thomas Selfridge as passenger, crashes killing Selfridge. He becomes the first airplane fatality.

    [more than any other WWI pilot], and was the leader of the feared “Flying Circus”. His less-well-known brother Lothar was also an ace with 40 shoot-downs credited.)

    1939 World War II: The Soviet Union joins Nazi Germany’s invasion of Poland during the Polish Defensive War of 1939.

    1944 World War II: Allied Airborne troops parachute into the Netherlands as the “Market” half of Operation Market Garden. (This unsuccessful attempt at ending WWII earlier than it did was detailed in the bestseller “A Bridge Too Far”.)

    1948 The Lehi (also known as the Stern gang) assassinates Count Folke Bernadotte, who was appointed by the UN to mediate between the Arabs and Jews.

    1970 Fighting breaks out along the Syria-Jordanian border between Jordanian troops and the fedayeen. (This was the “Black September” that the terrorist group named themselves after.)

    1976 The first Space Shuttle, Enterprise, is unveiled by NASA.

    1978 The Camp David Accords are signed by Israel and Egypt.

    1980 After weeks of strikes at the Lenin Shipyard in Gda?sk, Poland, the nationwide independent trade union Solidarity is established.

    1991 The first version of the Linux kernel (0.01) is released to the Internet.

    1992 Special prosecutor Lawrence Walsh called a halt to his five-and-a-half-year probe of the Iran-Contra scandal.

    1999 President Bill Clinton lifted restrictions on trade, travel and banking imposed on North Korea a half-century earlier. (North Korea won all sorts of goodies by promising to halt development on nuclear weapons. As we now know, reaped the rewards of those deals, while all the while they lied their heads off. They test detonated nuclear weapons beginning in 2006. Former U.S. President James Earl “Jimmy” Carter was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 2002, largely for his part in the nuclear negotiations with North Korea. Oops.)

    2001 The New York Stock Exchange reopens for trading after the September 11 attacks, the longest closure since the Great Depression.

    2004 Chechen warlord Shamil Basayev claimed responsibility for the Sept. 1-3 school siege in Beslan and other terrorist attacks in Russia that claimed more than 430 lives. (Thereby proving that Islamic terror and its accompanying inhuman cruelty cross ethnic and racial lines.)

    2004 San Francisco Giants slugger Barry Bonds hit his 700th career home run, joining Babe Ruth (714) and Hank Aaron (755) as the only players to reach the milestone. (Whoever said that cheaters never prosper?)

    2007 AOL, once the largest ISP in the U.S., officially announces plans to refocus the company as an advertising business and to relocate its corporate headquarters from Dulles, Virginia to New York, New York.

    anon for this

    ICOT, why do you think the Nobel Prize committee awarded the Peace Prize to Carter “largely for his part in the nuclear negotiations with North Korea”? In the statement announcing the award, the committee mentioned the Camp David accords of 1978, & didn’t mentioned North Korea at all. Neither did the speeches delivered at the time the award was presented. These speeches reiterated that the award was mostly in recognition of Carter’s work on the Camp David accords, and also mentioned his efforts in fighting disease & supervising elections.

    I do believe that the timing of his selection was likely politically motivated, but there’s no evidence that the award had much to do with the North Korean negotiations.


    Sept. 18th this date in history: (Friday Erev Rosh Hashana)

    1997 Ted Turner gives $1 billion to UN

    1996 Roger Clemens ties his own major league record with 20 strikeouts

    1990 500 pound Hershey Kiss is displayed in Times Square

    1990 Atlanta is chosen to host 1996 (centennial) Summer Olympics

    1989 Hurricane Hugo causes extensive damage in Puerto Rico

    1988 Burma suspends its constitution

    1988 Coup in Haiti

    1987 Detroit Tiger Darrell Evans is 1st 40 year old to hit 30 home runs

    1984 Tim Raines is 1st player with 4 consecutive 70-stolen-base seasons

    1983 George Meegen completes 2,426d (19K mi) walk across Western Hemisphere

    1982 Christian militia begin massacre of 600 Palestinians in Lebanon

    1976 Reverend Sun Myung Moon holds “God Bless America” convention

    1975 Heiress/bank robber Patricia Campbell Hearst captured by FBI in SF

    1974 Hurricane Fifi strikes Honduras with 110 mph winds, 5,000 die

    1973 West Germany and East Germany admitted to UN

    1965 Mickey Mantle Day at Yankee Stadium: Mantle play his 2,000th game

    1964 Greek king Constantine II marries Danish princess Anne-Marie

    1962 Charlie Finley is denied permission to move A’s to Dallas-Ft. Worth

    1956 Mickey Mantle is 8th to hit 50 home runs in a seaon

    1948 Ralph J. Bunche confirmed as acting United Nations mediator in Palestine

    1947 National Security Act, passes

    1947 USAF (U.S. Air Force) forms

    1943 Hitler orders deportation of Danish Jews (unsuccessful)

    1940 19 German air-crafts shot down above England

    1930 New York Yankee pitcher Red Ruffing hits 2 home runs to beat St. Louis Browns, 7-6

    1926 Hurricane hits Miami, kills 250

    1922 Hungary admitted to League of Nations

    1919 Hurricane tides 16 feet above normal drown 280 along Gulf Coast

    1918 Battle of Megiddo (Palestine) starts

    1914 Battle of Aisne ends with Germans beating French during WW I

    1914 General von Hindenburgs named commander of German armies on Eastern Front

    1914 Irish home rule bill receive Royal assent

    1909 Largest paid baseball attendance (35,409), A’s beat Tigers, 2-0 in Det

    1895 D D Palmer of Davenport, Iowa, becomes 1st chiropractor

    1891 Harriet Maxwell Converse is 1st white woman to become an Indian chief

    1882 Pacific Stock Exchange opens (as Local Security Board)

    1873 Government bond agent Jay Cooke and Co collapses, causing panic on Wall St

    1851 New York Times starts publishing at 2 cents a copy

    1850 Congress passes Fugitive Slave Law as part of Compromise of 1850


    anon for this-

    First of all, thank you for keeping me on my toes. If info is being fact-checked, it encourages accuracy and discourages sloppiness.

    Most (if not all) of the blurbs added to the historical notes are based on the memory of yours truly.

    Several op-eds at the time mentioned the Korean agreement as being a factor and/or being the factor that put Carter over the top and garnered him the award.

    anon for this

    ICOT, the text of the award speeches are available online. They simply don’t mention the Korean conflict at all. The speeches mostly discuss the Camp David accords, and also mention his work monitoring elections & fighting disease. I’d guess that the “promote economic and social development” phrase, which is taken from the Carter Center mission statement, is a reference to the latter.

    I do agree that the timing of the award was politically motivated & intended as a jab to Bush. But it had little to do with his work in North Korea, which as you noted was in 1999. (Though it may have had to do with his trip to Cuba earlier in 2002). Rather the timing of the award had more to do with the run-up to the Iraq war. In September 2002, President Bush addressed the UN assembly about Iraq’s biological weapons; you may remember that the war was not popular internationally. In fact, Congress authorized Bush to go to war against Iraq the same day the Prize selection was announced.


    Mary Travers passed away yesterday at age 72. Mary succumbed to the side effects of chemotherapy treatments.

    Mary Travers, was the female vocal with the folk trio of Peter, Paul and Mary (Puff the Magic Dragon). While Mary Travers was not Jewish and politically liberal, she fought hard for years throughout the 1980’s for Soviet refusniks, meeting with them in Russia and advocating the cause of Soviet Jewry via concerts and other means.

    In addition, it’s interesting to note, and while the young frum ones of today will find it hard to believe, I know personally of at least one Gadol in the 1960’s that permitted his family to listen to Peter, Paul and Mary records.


    “I know personally of at least one Gadol in the 1960’s that permitted his family to listen to Peter, Paul and Mary”

    And why in the world would anyone think there is a problem listening to music like that. It is cleaner than 99% of the music out there. And Mary had a beautiful voice with beautiful harmony. It uplifted the soul and isn’t that very very important?


    Modernorthodox- Thank you, but you’re new at this; wait for the displeasure to spring forth.


    Why should any displeasure spring up?

    Does anyone think we should isolate ourselves from the real world?


    I do.


    Joseph, you didn’t disappoint me.

    says who


    Does anyone think we should isolate ourselves from the real world?

    What do you mean by the real world?


    I’ll gladly let you continue this discussion if you start a thread for it.


    Ah! you guys got him outa his shell! Good goin.

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