NeutiquamErro's favorite thread with an obscure title

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  • #1147390

    Chortkov
    Participant

    Moving on.

    “And now, before we go to bed, let us sing the school song!” cried Dumbledore. Harry noticed that the other teachers’ smiles had become rather fixed.

    Dumbledore gave his wand a little flick, as if he was trying to get a fly off the end, and a long golden ribbon flew out of it, which rose high above the tables and twisted itself, snakelike, into words.

    “Everyone pick their favorite tune,” said Dumbledore, “and off we go!”

    And the school bellowed:

    “Hogwarts, Hogwarts, Hoggy Warty Hogwarts,

    Teach us something please,

    Whether we be old and bald

    Or young with scabby knees,

    Our heads could do with filling

    With some interesting stuff,

    For now they’re bare and full of air,

    Dead flies and bits of fluff,

    So teach us things worth knowing,

    Bring back what we’ve forgot,

    just do your best, we’ll do the rest,

    And learn until our brains all rot.”

    Why does this minhag stop the year Harry comes to Hogwarts? Granted, Harry (and in effect, us) misses the sorting in Book 2, Book 3, and Book 6, but there is no mention of the song at any other time. And he was there at the END of the Opening feast for most of them.

    #1147391

    cozimjewish
    Member

    “Furthermore, I highly doubt that if a student would disappear, Dumbledore’s first reaction would be to suspect a teacher of abducting the student, much less Moody whom he specifically brought in to increase security and trusts implicitly.”

    Read my post. I never said he would suspect Moody. I said he would question him. Meaning, gather the teachers and tell them the news, and ask if they saw/heard anything suspicious etc. He would be sure to question Moody particularly, who was supposedly once one of the best aurors and is more likely to have seen something suspicious going on in the castle (being that he can see through walls and all)

    #1147392

    cozimjewish
    Member

    “Why does this minhag stop the year Harry comes to Hogwarts?”

    With a song like that, do you blame them? Not exactly a confidence-booster

    #1147393

    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Why is Snape trusted? Ok, Dumbledore had incontrovertible proof, but no one else did. The constant refrain, as expressed most eloquently by Lupin in the sixth book is that Dumbledore trusts Snape and we trust Dumbledore. Now Lupin clearly admits to not knowing why Dumbledore trusts Snape. Why does he assume that Dumbledore is practically infallible? Well maybe because Dumbledore is the greatest wizard alive so it is a safe assumption that Snape wouldn’t be able to fool him. Yet Voldemort is pretty much Dumbledore’s equal and he also trusts Snape. ?? ????, Snape is fooling one of the two greatest wizards. So why should anyone be so confident that Dumbledore is not the one being fooled. (If anything I would think that between Dumbledore and Voldemort, Dumbledore is more likely to place trust in someone who shouldn’t really be trusted.)

    I have a few possible answers:

    1) Voldemort didn’t really trust Snape. However, I don’t see how Lupin could have known this.

    2) Dumbledore might have told Lupin that he had incontrovertible proof without telling him what the proof was.

    3) Something to do with how Voldemort doesn’t understand love and those kind of things.

    #1147394

    cozimjewish
    Member

    PAA – all of the above?

    #1147395

    cozimjewish
    Member

    “For heavens sake it’s not real” (Shopping613, quite a lot of posts back)

    That’s what muggles like you think. How would you know?

    #1147396

    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Or none of the above.

    I already addressed the first one. I don’t really know what the third one means. The second one is the best shot, but I don’t think there is any evidence to support it (which doesn’t necessarily make it wrong).

    #1147397

    Why wouldn’t Hermione have used her Time-Turner to catch up on sleep, so that she could have kept her crazy schedule? Always bothered me.

    #1147398

    cozimjewish
    Member

    Random sidepoint, being as this is the HP thread – sirvoddmort, the first time I saw your username, I immediately thought of Voldemort (except instead of “Lord Voldemort” you chose “Sir Voldemort, for some reason 😉 )

    Another random sidepoint: Voldemort is apparently now a dictionary word, since it isn’t underlined, so cool

    #1147402

    Chortkov
    Participant

    “For heavens sake it’s not real” (Shopping613, quite a lot of posts back)

    Well it’s in my head, so what makes you say it’s not real?

    #1147403

    sirvoddmort
    Member

    A knighthood is a step below a peerage. I wasn’t going to be presumptive enough to elevate myself to a Lordship. Although DukeVoddmort has a certain ring to it.

    #1147404

    Chortkov
    Participant

    you chose “Sir Voldemort, for some reason 😉 )

    I believe that the name is an anagram of sorts. But none of you would understand it unless you knew the identity of the poster!

    #1147405

    Chortkov
    Participant

    When Harry gave himself up to be killed, his revival is attributed to the fact the Voldemort took Harry’s blood for his own rebirth:

    How does this work? Lily’s charm was supposed to disappear when Harry came of age, which had happened already. Why should the charm last in Voldemorts body after that? “His body keeps her sacrifice alive”?! And why does Voldemort die, if he DOES have that protection? Why doesn’t he receive the option to come back down?

    And why back in Godrics Hollow, the first attempt at Harry’s life, did he not go to “Kings Cross” and receive an option to move on? Surely it was the same charm that saved him both times?

    #1147406

    Chortkov
    Participant

    “Does Voldemort know when a Horcrux is destroyed, sir? Can he feel it?” Harry asked, ignoring the portraits.

    “A very interesting question, Harry. I believe not. I believe that Voldemort is now so immersed in evil, and these crucial parts of himself have been detached for so long, he does not feel as we do.”

    So why does Voldemort (and possibly the childlike figure in “Kings Cross”) faint when Harry is killed?

    #1147407

    sirvoddmort
    Member

    The spell in Godric’s Hollow rebounded, as is repeatedly affirmed. Perhaps a better question would be why that didn’t happen here.

    And the seemingly obvious answer to that is that the spell did rebound, in a fashion, as it killed a part of Voldermort’s soul (apparently the Killing Curse can kill horcruxes). And that segment of soul was more than an invader, a parasite. It was a segment of Harry himself. As such, as the spell hit, it affected both of them. Therefore, while Harry was protected, he was not shielded, and therefore travelled to ‘King’s Cross’.

    This still falls into the ‘flights of fancy’ category as expounded above.

    #1147408

    sirvoddmort
    Member

    In the book Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them, the foreword, by Albus Dumbledore, reinforces the claim that JK Rowling is a chronicler, as opposed to an author. As such, would she not be in violation of the International Statute of Secrecy and liable to be obliviated, or at the very least threatened with a spell in Azkaban (assuming muggles can be imprisoned there)

    #1147409

    sirvoddmort
    Member

    Of course, she is probably doing the magical world a favour, as there is no better concealment than partial revelation.

    #1147410

    Chortkov
    Participant

    And the seemingly obvious answer to that is that the spell did rebound, in a fashion, as it killed a part of Voldermort’s soul (apparently the Killing Curse can kill horcruxes). And that segment of soul was more than an invader, a parasite. It was a segment of Harry himself. As such, as the spell hit, it affected both of them. Therefore, while Harry was protected, he was not shielded, and therefore travelled to ‘King’s Cross’.

    Forgive me for not understanding, but surely both Harry and the horcrux were protected by the charm? Neither the Horcrux, nor Voldemort himself, should have been able to die, seeing as they both should have been under the protection of Lily’s Charm, as Dumbledore reveals. (I would have said that the charm couldn’t work on Voldemort, who was so far removed from Love, but I am clearly wrong with that!) And whatever caused the spell to rebound should have done so here as well! (And there was no scar here, although in Godrics Hollow there was!)

    #1147411

    sirvoddmort
    Member

    Whilst the spell would work on the main Voldermort, the part that resides in his body, but there is no reason to assume the protection carries over to all his horcruxes. The blood of protection only runs in his veins. The horcrux, as a parasite, has none of Harry’s protection, and as such is killed.

    #1147412

    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    About time a moderator caught on.

    #1147413

    ivory
    Member

    Thanks for changing the title!

    #1147414

    iBump 2.0
    Participant

    in answer to EVERY ONE OF THESE QUESTIONS:

    “As obsessive fans will tell you, I do slip up! Several classrooms move floors mysteriously between books and these are the least serious continuity errors! Most of the fansites will point you in the direction of my mistakes. But the essentials remain consistent from book to book because the story has been plotted for a long time and it is clear in my mind.”

    i guess that means we became a fansite…

    🙂 Bump 🙂

    #1147415

    iBump 2.0
    Participant

    so,for the fun of it, technical questions:

    1)The boa constrictor at the Zoo winked at Harry during their conversation. As snakes don’t have eyelids, it is impossible for them to blink, for their eyes are protected by transparent scales

    2)It states in the Hogwarts letter that you can bring an owl, toad, or cat but Ron brings his rat, Scabbers

    3)During the Halloween feast, when the troll is let in, Professor Dumbledore sends the students to their dormitories. However, the troll is said to be in the dungeons, and that is also where the Slytherin dormitories are, meaning Dumbledore has put them directly in harm’s way by sending them there.The logical move would be for every student to stay in the Great Hall, do a roll call, and send prefects/teachers looking for missing students

    4)at the end of book 1, Dumbledore said that his and Hermione’s owl crossed in mid-air, however a few pages later Hermione says to Harry that that she ran into Dumbledore on the way to the Owlery to send him the owl

    a really technical one:

    5)Harry’s fourteenth birthday is on July 31, 1994, but in his letter to Sirius at the beginning of the book he mentions that his cousin Dudley got really angry and chucked his PlayStation out of the window. The PlayStation was not released in Europe until September 29, 1995. It could not have been imported either because the PlayStation was not released in Japan until December 3, 1994

    #1147416

    iBump 2.0
    Participant

    some conceptual ones:

    1)We’re supposed to believe that during Ron’s first year that Fred and George NEVER checked up on or looked at Ron on the map to see that there was a “Peter Pettigrew” next to or near him? Ever? Recall, F&G “nicked” the map from Filch’s office in THEIR first year, so they’d had it already, and even if Molly didn’t know that they had it, she wouldn’t have said “Keep an eye on your baby brother this year, it’s his first year…”??? Or that they went through two (and a half, almost) years of Ron being there with “Scabbers” that they NEVER ONCE saw Ron next to a “Peter Pettigrew” and if they did, they never asked him who in the world Peter Pettigrew was? As rabble-rousing as the two boys were, we are supposed to believe that they never once checked up on their little brother before they gave the map to Harry?

    2)I don’t understand why Sirius didn’t tell Harry to just use the mirror whenever he broke into Umbridge’s office the first time. He asks if everything is all right and Harry says he just wanted to talk about his dad. Seems like Sirius should have told him to get out and go back to the dorm and use the mirror, it’d be much safer and you can bet Sirius carried his half of the mirror at all times just in case Harry was in trouble. Even if Sirius wasn’t aware that Harry was breaking into her office to use the fire, he and Lupin both know that the fires are being watched so it still wouldn’t be worth the risk.

    3)Why couldn’t Harry have “re-lived” the experience in the graveyard by means of the pensieve?The real “plot hole” part of this is that if Harry had just done this, they could have shown Fudge the scene and proved that it had happened. Clearly, Dumbledore already had the pensieve, because Harry had used it to accidentally witness the three Wizengamot’s trials while in Dumbledore’s office. Of course, one could argue that Fudge just wasn’t willing to believe Voldemort was back, and wouldn’t have watched it even if they had offered him the chance- but that still doesn’t explain why Dumbledore makes Harry relive the “horrors” of the graveyard scene by retelling them, when Dumbledore and Sirius could have just watched it instead

    4) everyone here is questioning the passage of power of wands,what about this: WHAT WAS DUMBLEDORE THINKING?!

    We know that Dumbledore’s original plan was for the Elder Wand not passing down to Snape when the latter kills him, for the killing was agreed upon. All fine for that. But: as it can be lost when taken forcefully (it passes to Harry when he wrestles Draco out of HIS wand while at the manor), I am to conclude that, had Dumbledore’s plan gone as planned, the wand’s allegiance would have passed to Voldemort when he removes it from the tomb, just like the latter says at the end of the Battle of Hogwarts). Really Dumbledore did not expect Voldmeort to break into his tomb? I do not find it convincing that the wand’s power would die out after Dumbledore’s death.

    5) how does voldemort get his wand back? he used it to kill harry’s parents and tries to kill harry then I assume he takes a spirit form. Are we to infer that his wand just sits in Harry’s house until he has wormtail fetch 14 years later? No one searched the area for clues?

    🙂 Bump 🙂

    #1147417

    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    “It states in the Hogwarts letter that you can bring an owl, toad, or cat but Ron brings his rat, Scabbers”

    ??? ?????

    #1147418

    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    A galleon is seventeen sickles and a sickle is twenty nine knuts.

    Three questions:

    1) Why couldn’t they use easy numbers instead of seventeen and twenty nine?

    2) The first description of Harry’s vault is: “Inside were mounds of gold coins. Columns of silver. Heaps of little bronze Knuts.” Why didn’t Harry’s parents trade in their heaps of knuts and columns of silver for some galleons?

    3) (This one is the real question.) “A plump woman outside an Apothecary was shaking her head as they passed, saying, ‘Dragon liver, seventeen Sickles an ounce, they’re mad….'”

    #1147419

    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    To get through the barrier at platform nine and three quarters, you just have to go through it. So why in the world would anyone do it at a run (which will almost definitely attract muggle attention) and why in the world would that be good advice for someone who is nervous about it?

    #1147420

    Chortkov
    Participant

    Once you start with the dates, nothing works. Whether Christmas is a Sunday, Wednesday or Thursday does not fit with the dates. None of the dates are consistent. The only date mentioned really in the story is the Deathday of Nearly Headless Nick (and it could be some of the gravestones too).

    #1147421

    iBump 2.0
    Participant

    6) Felix Felicis(the good luck potion in the sixth book).When Ginny, Ron, and Hermione use it at the end of the 6th book they say that the death eater’s curses “barely missed them”. I know that Hermione says it takes 6 months to make the potion, but I presume for some price, a skilled witch or wizard could make tons of this stuff and Harry (or Dumbledore or Voldemort or Snape or Belltrix etc. etc.) could just buy some. This is especially apparent with the amount of money just sitting in Harry’s vault. Why didn’t he just buy a big bottle of the stuff once he found out about it?!

    7)The entire Sirius storyline is dependent on him being the secret-keeper for james and Lilly, yet at shell cottage Bill is HIS OWN secret-keeper. Um, what? Why didn’t James just become his own secret keeper?

    8)Voldemort was on the back of Quirrell’s head for the entire school term at Hogwarts. Snape frequently threatened Quirrell, thwarted his attempts to kill Harry at the Quidditch match, and basically made it pretty clear “where his loyalties lay”-with Dumbledore. So why didn’t Voldemort-on the back of Quirrell’s head-attempt to contact Snape, who he claimed was his most faithful servant before his fall and after his return to power? Didn’t Voldemort suspect that Snape was working for Dumbledore? And since they didn’t appear to have any contact, since Snape was not even pretending to want Quirrell to get the stone, which would have been his course of action if he were a spy for either side, (aside from the fact that I don’t think Snape suspected that Quirrell had Voldy on the BACK OF HIS HEAD, just that he was working for him) how did Voldemort not know that Snape wasn’t loyal? And in later books when he claims that Snape “never betrayed him and was always faithful”, isn’t that totally excluding the entire first book when Snape was blatantly sabotaging his plans?

    9) another on the wands (Elder in particular): Grindelwald stole it. he did not disarm or defeat anyone to acquire it. Therefore it never really BELONGED to him, therefore it could not belong to Dumbledore, or Draco, or Snape or Harry or Voldemort or ANYONE who defeated or disarmed its previous “owner”

    🙂 Bump 🙂

    #1147422

    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    ibump 2.0:

    I was going to ask why they didn’t use veritaserum on Harry to get Fudge to believe that Voldemort back, but it’s the same basic question as using the pensieve. In fact there are many times when they could have used such methods to determine the truth – e.g. Sirius’s innocence. Perhaps these methods are inadmissable in court – memories can be tampered with which presumably could outsmart a truth potion as well.

    #1147423

    Wait, where is there evidence that memories can be tampered with? I must have missed that one…

    #1147424

    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    jewishfeminist02:

    Hermione did it to her parents, Voldemort did it to Hokey and Gaunt, and Slughorn did it to himself.

    #1147425

    You mean Obliviate? That’s for memories inside a person’s brain, not the silvery memories swirling in the Pensieve…

    #1147426

    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Why would there be a difference? A pensieve just puts you inside the memory. If the memory is corrupted then that should be what you see. However, we do know that the original memory is still there somewhere, in which case it is possible that the pensieve shows the actual memory, but at least in Slughorn’s case the pensieve showed the corrupted version which would indicate to the contrary.

    #1147427

    The difference is that if the memory was stored in the Pensieve before the charm was placed on the person, the stored memory should be unaffected– at the very least require a separate charm. I’ll have to look up the Slughorn one.

    #1147428

    showjoe
    Participant

    just saw the title change lol!

    but i think the mods should put a comma or parenthesis after harry potter making it “Harry Potter, Has Got Nothing To Do With Judaism” or “Harry Potter (Has Got Nothing To Do With Judaism)”

    #1147429

    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    I am willing to grant that. However, that wouldn’t help if indeed you can do a charm on the external memory, and more importantly, there would be no way to prove that a memory was extracted before it was tampered with (unless there is some kind of spell which could actually determine this).

    #1147430

    squeak
    Participant

    I only ever read one of these books, but I was wondering – why didn’t imposter Moody give Harry a portkey on some quiet prearranged day in his office at the start of term? Why make the dude wait until June and make the most melodramatic portkey possible? And if portkeys work (or fireplace travel to go home on christmas) why have a train? And when the spells reversed in the graveyard, why didnt the horcrux spell from killing the riddles emerge too?

    Ps that last question came from the person looking over my shoulder.

    #1147431

    cozimjewish
    Member

    “I was going to ask why they didn’t use veritaserum on Harry to get Fudge to believe that Voldemort back”

    Oh, please. Fudge knew the truth. He just didnt want to admit it

    #1147432

    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    But it would be a lot harder to deny it if he had been presented with incontrovertible proof.

    #1147433

    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Squeak:

    I already asked your first question on the previous page. As for your second question, a train is a lot simpler logistically. As for your third question, Dumbledore explicitly answers it: “‘The last murders the wand performed,’ said Dumbledore, nodding. ‘In reverse order. More would have appeared, of course, had you maintained the connection.'”

    #1147434

    sirvoddmort
    Member

    The boa constrictor at the Zoo winked at Harry during their conversation. As snakes don’t have eyelids, it is impossible for them to blink, for their eyes are protected by transparent scales

    So your problem is that the talking snake shouldn’t have been able to wink. Still, good ????.

    #1147435

    sirvoddmort
    Member

    The real “plot hole” part of this is that if Harry had just done this, they could have shown Fudge the scene and proved that it had happened.

    Snake showed Fudge incontrovertible proof in the form of his Dark Mark, and Fudge just shook his head.

    #1147436

    sirvoddmort
    Member

    I am to conclude that, had Dumbledore’s plan gone as planned, the wand’s allegiance would have passed to Voldemort when he removes it from the tomb, just like the latter says at the end of the Battle of Hogwarts.

    Well, Harry says to Dumbledore’s portrait a short time later that he will die with the Elder Wand unconquered, just as Dumbledore was going to, and thus ‘it’s power will be broken’. And Dumbledore smiled and nodded. So Voldermort, when claiming that by removing the wand against Dumbledore’s wishes he took possession of the wand, he was, quite simply, lying.

    And this is further proof that Dumbledore trumped Voldermort in virtually every category, including that one path Voldermort thought he alone had trod further than anyone.

    #1147437

    sirvoddmort
    Member

    I presume for some price, a skilled witch or wizard could make tons of this stuff and Harry (or Dumbledore or Voldemort or Snape or Belltrix etc. etc.) could just buy some.

    Firstly, Felix Felicis is dangerous in excessive quantities. So it would be self-defeating to simply overdose. And secondly, it makes someone lucky. And whilst this is just a guess, it is probably useless when it comes up against true skill (in the battle at the end of ‘??? ?, the Death Eaters were not facing them in a one on one duel, it was more a general melee). So I can’t see Voldermort beating Dumbledore in a duel, for example, just because of Felix.

    #1147438

    sirvoddmort
    Member

    And in later books when he claims that Snape “never betrayed him and was always faithful”, isn’t that totally excluding the entire first book when Snape was blatantly sabotaging his plans?

    Read the Book (caps intended). Snape explains to Bellatrix at the beginning of ‘??? ? that he wasn’t aware of Quirrell being possesses, and in his own words…

    “I think you next wanted to know,” he pressed on a little more loudly, for Bellatrix showed every sign of interrupting, “why I stood between the Dark Lord and the Sorcerer’s Stone. That is easily answered. He did not know whether he could trust me. He thought, like you, that I had turned from faithful Death Eater to Dumbledore’s stooge. He was in a pitiable condition, very weak, sharing the body of a mediocre wizard. He did not dare reveal himself to a former ally if that ally might turn him over to Dumbledore or the Ministry. I deeply regret that he did not trust me. He would have returned to power three years sooner. As it was, I saw only greedy and unworthy Quirrell attempting to steal the stone and, I admit, I did all I could to thwart him.”

    So this neatly sums up why Voldermort didn’t contact Snape, or vice versa.

    #1147439

    sirvoddmort
    Member

    During the Halloween feast, when the troll is let in, Professor Dumbledore sends the students to their dormitories. However, the troll is said to be in the dungeons, and that is also where the Slytherin dormitories are, meaning Dumbledore has put them directly in harm’s way by sending them there.The logical move would be for every student to stay in the Great Hall, do a roll call, and send prefects/teachers looking for missing students.

    And Hogwarts, home to a deadly Forest full of man-eating spiders, a three-headed dog, numerous pyrotechnics, teaching twelve-year olds how to deal with plants that can, and do, knock them out, staying open when people are being petrified and are in danger of their life, staying open when two students have attempts made on their life, allowing students to risk their lives in a tournament against numerous deadly creatures, surrounding the school with soul-destroying beats, permitting students to duel each other, hiring a werewolf, hiring a delusional, paranoid ex-auror (who turns out to be homicidal maniac), allowing Hagrid to teach, allowing Lockhart to teach, and knowingly letting a student attempt to kill the Headmaster, is renowned for it’s emphasis on student safety. Plus, their Slytherins. And for an added bonus, the Dungeons is a big place and the troll was probably easily circumventable.

    #1147440

    sirvoddmort
    Member

    Oh, and snakes have transparent scales protecting their eyes, meaning they can’t blink. But these scales can be shed, giving the appearance of blinking.

    #1147441

    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    “Snake showed Fudge incontrovertible proof in the form of his Dark Mark, and Fudge just shook his head.”

    That’s not quite as incontrovertible, unless you accept my memory tampering answer.

    #1147442

    Letakein Girl
    Participant

    WOW!!!!

    How many times did you guys read each book?

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