anyPotatoKugelLeft

@querty613 as far as I’m concerned it’s over from my perspective you several comments ago acknowledged Chazal hold Moshiach can come from the meisim. I believe Chazal and Rambam have the final word as I wrote in OP

@query613 are you sure it’s lubavitchers that are obsessed with the Rebbe being Moshiach? Pause and think about that….

If you read KSSM you will see the yeshivos of Rebbi shiloi Yanai and chanina if around today would still be saying their Rav is Moshiach….

That’s in addition to Menachem Ben Chizkiya, dovid HaMelech, the baal Shem Tov, the holy rehuzeneh and the Rebbe saying his father in law is Moshiach.

The point is we will all find out who Moshiach is when he comes. Or if you prefer we can keep writing comments and starting new threads….

@query613 I and many others hold the Rebbe is still the Rambam’s bchezkas Moshiach. Also check out psak din dot com that gives the halachic reasoning as to the Rebbe being for sure the one who will be Goel Tzedek. If you appreciate the reasoning good. Of not then it’s considered a machloikes haposkim, unless you can refute the reasoning with sources.

At very least the Rebbe is considered fit to be Moshiach as per KSSM….

Remember chezkas Moshiach hasn’t even begun to fulfill the messianic prophecies yet….

May I ask you what do you think of your landsmen that are not suffering from a shaas hadachak but not keeping cholov yisroel? And the ones who are benei Torah learning in kollel that are married and not worried about Parnasa that they go clean shaven?

I trust I can ask questions too and won’t be accused of sinas chinam…

@ARSo can people on this thread speak to the lamdus of the sefer as it relates to Chazal, rishonim, acharonim and Rambam without speaking about Lubavitch?

As was stated already while the Rebbe was alive they thought Moshiach would come that day. Being they thought the Rebbe is Moshiach they believed Moshiach will be coming from the living. Once the Rebbe died being they still think he is Moshiach they think Moshiach will be coming from the meisim.

That is exactly what is shown in the sefer the yeshivos of Rebbi shiloi Yanai and chanina did. When their rosh yeshiva was alive they said it’s him and obviously Moshiach would be coming from the living. Once their rosh yeshiva died it appears they still said he is the Moshiach therefore they bow believe Moshiach will be coming from the meisim….

Again, can you just speak to the lamdus and state if you agree Moshiach can come from the meisim as long as the candidate spoken of the fit to be Moshiach. Ie a tzadik from bais dovid ( and not a rasha)

@yankel berel in the introduction he speak in detail about rambaN and points out that rambaN rejection of Yoshkela is simply because he claimed to be the Goel Tzedek the Videi Moshiach but died without fulfilling any of the messianic prophecies…. ie the claim about Yoshkela wasn’t that he is fit to be Moshiach. Rather he is already the Ultimate Redeemer. As he explains in introduction.

His book is an indepth analysis into this topic. Just the facts. Ie no manipulations unless of course you are trying to “air your concerns” about chabad without actually mentioning the word chabad.

Again is there anyone who read the sefer that disagrees with the fact Moshiach can come from the meisim?

If there is please be factual and refer to sources.

Otherwise please acknowledge that this sefer is the final word on the topic ( albeit not as it relates to chabad if that makes you happy)

@square. Clearly you have not read the book.
In his introduction he immediately explains that when Chazal said Moshiach can come from the living or dead they are only talking about someone that is “fit to be Moshiach” shabtai Tzvi and yoshkela are addressed in the introduction as Moshiach sheker. Ie they were never considered fit to be Moshiach while living.

In addition to not reading the sefer in question. You clearly don’t understand a basic maamar Chazal. Just because Chazal say Moshiach will come. That doesn’t ever mean it could be a rasha….

Judaism 10: we reject yoshkela as he was a rasha. Nothing he did was holy and pure. His attempt to be “Moshiach” as per Rambam l’Halacha was vulgar and fantasy. To say Yoshkela did something holy and pure and his only issue is he died. You have been dumped by that crack pot professor.

Jews were moiser nefesh to reject yoshkela is because is was a rasha and Moshiach sheker and avoda Zara.

Any attempt to manipulate and Ignore those facts and to then say we reject him because he died without bringing the redemption as a fraud and grotesque manipulation of the truth and an insult to the martyrs who died Al kiddish Hashem. Has zero to do with Chazal saying Moshiach can come from the living or dead…

Maybe just read the introduction to know why we reject false Messiahs?

Dear moderators please can you unequivocally state Judaism does not believe in a second coming or sinas chinam.

If you could also find this pertinent mkor from the chofetz chaim that @querty613 has heard about so much from so many people including a minyan of lubavitchers that will be greatly appreciated as a mkor would be a refreshing change.

@querty613 I indulged you. I emailed the mechaber. He said being all of Chazal say Moshiach can come from the living or meisim, but it was a sofek to the amorayim if in actuality Moshiach will come from the living or meisim. Therefore it’s not shayach b’metzius for a Rishon, acharon or posek halacha to be machria davka only from the living or davka from the meisim. Similar to zachu or loi zachu. All Chazal agree it could be either one. Which one b’poel. We don’t know….

Therefore it’s not possible and even am aratzus to say someone poskened one way or another….
He said you can download another Kuntres from his website shmoishelmoshiach dot com where he wrote at length about that subject as it relates to the Rambam.

So again back to the yotzi min hklal of “kol hasam kozev”

Provide the mkor by asking your rabbi or rabbis or publicly apologize.

Since you are talking about the chofetz chaim it’s the time of year to remind that he says those who are not able to keep pas yisroel should be makpid during the aseres yemai teshuva. Unless of course you have another posek you follow…..

@5783 please see the sefer yechi HaMelech HaMoshiach which shows the halachic reasoning as to the Rebbe being considered bchezkas Moshiach. The sefer as well as the psak din had many non chabad rebonim sign including Reb ovadia yosef and rabbi Mordechai Eliyahu and rabbi Pinchus Hirschprug among many others. It’s available on otzar hachochma….

Any questions you may have concerning that book please contact the mechaber or those who gave haskama or start a new thread

@query613 all people that think dovid HaMelech, Rebbi shiloi, Yanai and chanina and Menachem Ben Chizkiya and the baal Shem Tov and the Ruhzeneh and the friedika Rebbe and the lubavitcher Rebbe are the Moshiach, believe they will come back via a Techiya Pratis and fulfill all the messianic prophecies. Until that happens they are just “fit to be Moshiach” or “Moshiach” or bchezkas Moshiach if they fit the din in Rambam.
As shown in Kuntres Shmoi Shel Moshiach about the amorayim.
Does that answer your question?

As shown in Kuntres Shmoi Shel Moshiach the amorayim listed there continued to call their Rav Moshiach while he was alive and continued to call him Moshiach after he passed away. None of that is considered “a second coming” rachama Litzlan.

The preoccupation to slander Lubavitch is considered sinas chinam as once proof is shown that Moshiach can come from the meisim and proof shown of amorayim continuing to call their Rav Moshiach after he passed away. And proof shown that reb nochum m’chernoble said about the baal Shem Tov and the Ruhzeneh and the previous Rebbe all continuing to call their Rav Moshiach while alive even after he passed away.

To then say you acknowledge Moshiach can come from the dead. But still equate such a belief as a “second coming” and worse to create lies about the Rebbe to say he said the Geula has begun and he has already started fulfilling the messianic prophecies which is complete lies and malicious misquotes. Then to frame him with the lies and now give verdict of Moshiach sheker…. This is the definition of sinas chinam.

As the fact that the lies could be believed even at all is not to acknowledge the Rebbe is a holy tzadik. Then to spread malicious slander of Moshiach sheker similar to shabtai Tzvi is completely in appropriate and unbelievable unless someone is seething with hatred and misinformation to even think such could even be remotely possible….

So yes if you don’t think the Rebbe is Moshiach fine. But to slander about a second coming or Moshiach sheker that is completely false and malicious.

And to further invent that the chofetz chaim poskened against Moshiach coming from the meisim and then putting the onus on Lubavitch to find such a non existent mkor…..

And to then to claim you spoke to a chabad shliach and quote him as saying something so crazy without any chance of verification possible to find out if such a thing took place….

Ie in spite of the sources quoted and the strong mesorah recorded to say Moshiach can be someone that passed away but will come back but you continue to maliciously ignore the sources and continue to say second coming and Moshiach sheker. That to all who are honest and acknowledge Chazal can only be called sinas chinam.

It’s quite frustrating that in a thread that is talking about a book. People comment without even reading it. Kuntres Shmoi Shel Moshiach shows that Rashi holds Rav is teaching at that moment in time Moshiach from the dead would be Doniel. After rebbi died Rav would hold it could still be rebbi. I. Addition the sefer quoted the girsa of ain Yaakov that says heinu Doniel not haya Doniel…. Also it says haya is in relation to rebbi in the present tense.

Please read the book and acknowledge you are chozer from the erroneous understanding of Rashi….

As said before misquoting the Rebbe and then saying incredible lies is what the misnagidim did to the baal Shem Tov….

There is no emes to your bold face lies and misquotes.
Nor do you care….

But I must say being your such a lamdan and zealot do you think it is time to grow a beard and keep chalav yisroel? Or are you concerned about anti semitism and experiencing a constant shaas hadachak?

No judgements here

Could not agree more…. Also point to ponder isn’t it amazing that litvaks always have the inner scoop and understand the Rebbe better than his chasidim? (Unless you are required to actually quote a source inside)

You made a claim the chofetz chaim poskened Moshiach can’t come from the dead and now claim you have no idea where such a thing is written and try to put the onus on be and several Lubavitchers to find the psak?!?! I’m sorry it doesn’t work like that.

Again Judaism doesn’t believe in a second coming. Please can you acknowledge same in a comment. Tia

@querty613. What did the chofetz chaim posken? Please quote source.

Being all of Chazal hold Moshiach can come from living or deceased. It’s not possible to rule Moshiach can come only one way and not the other way. Similar to zochu and loi zachu. It’s not possible to rule only zachu etc….

Lubavitch in essence is saying the exact same as dbei rebbi shiloi Yanai and chanina. That their Rav will be the one to bring the Geula.

Moshiach from the dead is not a second coming. Second coming is not a Jewish concept. Chazal said Moshiach can come from the dead and bring the Geula.

Don’t mix non Jewish philosophy here otherwise some zealot lunatic might start talking about how Rambam said going around clean shaven is the practice of avoda Zara preists etc….

Ie would you like sources and truth or hucking a chinig?

As to why lubavitchers think the Rebbe is Moshiach as posted many times. The rebbe hinted he will be the one to bring the Geula. See sichos of shmois nun bais and mishpatim nun bais where the Rebbe acknowledged we have bchezkas Moshiach. Google rosh Chodesh koslev 5753 when the Rebbe vigorously encouraged the singing of yechi….. So these are just a few reasons why lots of people think the Rebbe is Moshiach…. If you read the sefer u will see such a belief has a strong foundation in Judaism.

@yankel berel please feel free to start yet another chabad bashing thread. This thread is about Kuntres Shmoi Shel Moshiach proving Chazal hold Moshiach can come from the dead.

I have no intention of digressing into your point by point issues with chabad.

I also assume since you jumped to chabad bashing you know acknowledge it’s 100% glatt kosher to believe Moshiach can be someone who is resurrected.

Also as was mentioned in the comments and sefer chezkas Moshiach hasn’t even begun to start the messianic mission and fulfilment of prophecies…..

We are all awaiting the Geula….

@RSo clearly you have not read his book. Rashi says if it’s someone from the living NOW and if it’s someone who died ALREADY it’s Doniel. Ie in the future it can be anyone that lives or dies. After rebbi died Rav would likely think Rebbi could still be Moshiach. Again you are showing your Am Aratzus and clearly have not read the book that you are trying to trash…. Not such an intelligent position to have….

#AviraDeArah RE: Ramban says no such thing. Ramban is quoted in the INTORDUCTION to his sefer. Ramban said we dont believe in a dead “Moshiach” ie if you claim you are the Actual Moshiach ie the Moshiach Vadei then you had better fulfill all the messianic prophesies before you die. he said that as the Xtians claimed Yoshke is the Actual Moshiach etc…. however he didnt fulfill any of the messianic prophesies…

Ramban is not coming to say Moshiach cannot come from the dead and then fulfill all the messianic prophesies as chazal say is possible (without machloikes).

also as Reb Chaim Kanievsky said we dont posken or make hanhagos from Vikuchim etc.

RE: RAMBAM. since when is killed the same as died? and in any event Rambam says those words on a Chezkas Moshiach only not stam a Raui Lehyos Moshiach as he says in his conclusion to his sefer.

futhermore being all of chazal held without Machloikes its not Shayach for any Rishon or Posek Halacha to rule agianst moshiach coming from the dead.

Remember Chezkas Moshiach is only a Raui Lehyos Moshiach but with a halachic status. Chezkas Moshiach according to Rambam has NOT even begun to fulfil the messianic prophesies and hasnt even started “The Messianic Mission” Messianic Mission is poskened by Rambam as Building the Bais HaMikdiosh and doing Kibutz Galios etc…. Getting the world ready with a Moshiach campaign is not considered a Messianic Mission unless you redfine Messianic Mission to push an Adgenda… certainly not a Toras Emes Agenda etc…..

Love your fellow Jew. There is no apikorsus here…. just move on

#RSo regarding #1 “…rate I didn’t understand ) as to what Rashi holds has no basis. That is, we can’t know what Rashi meant by that piece.”

so sad that due to your preconceived ideas you would rather show the whole world you are completely uninteligent and make like you have no clue rather than admit you have made a mistake and that chazal do hold moshiach can come from the dead.

Rashi clearly holds we are talking about a read person they said is Moshiach. see also explicitily in the Maharsha and also as quoted in his sefer from the Agadas Eliyahu they called Menachem Ben Chizkiya “Melech HaMoshiach” ie Rashi clearly holds its not just names and attirbutes rather they are pointing a finger and saying he is Fit to be Moshiach or as Maharsha states “Moshiach” and Agadas ELiyahu “Melech HaMoshiach” its all in his sefer if you would do yourself a favor and just read it (along with the Haskamos).

#2 If you would have read his sefer or been conversant with this Sugia you would know the Medrash and Yerushalmi both say the story of Menachem Ben Chizkia in releation to Menachem Shmoi. ie Menachem Ben Chizkiya was VERY well known. just read his book or the sources your self.

RE: “משיח צדקנו” if it is merly an Honorfic why doesnt anyone in the Litvishe world use it? it seems like you have an aversion to talmidim saying their Rav is Moshiach. why is that? do you not like what Chazal, Rishonim and Acharonim teach? you hate fellow frummer yidden so much you are prepared to disregard parts of the Tora!?!?

Regarding Frummer yidden saying the REbbe is B’chezkas Moshiach. its a lot more than just Lubavitchers. see the Sefer Yechi HaMelech HaMoshiach. Rav Pinchus Hirschprung also signed the Rebbe is Chezkas moshiach along with others including R’ Ovadia Yosef….

The Rebbe himself acknoledged thepsak he is Chezkas Moshiach. in the Sicha of Shmois Nun Bais and also Mishpotim Nun Bais. Of Course his followers will hold the same as thier Rav etc

in short you have shown to all who read your commments you are not conversant with the relevant sources nor have you read his book. right now you look like a brainwashed Parrot.

any further questions you should contact the Mechaber.

@RSo here are some mkoros the mechaber sent to me via his website. Feel free to contact him yourself too he is responsive.

Calling someone Moshiach:

בס”ד

בשו”ת הריב”ש כותב על רבו הר”ן “ילמדנו רבנו רוח אפנו משיח צדקנו” (שם סי’ תע”ח). “תמלוך ותנשא על כסא ה’ למלך על כל ישראל” (שם סימן שפ”ח). ועוד.

ובס’ נתיבות עולם להמהר”ל מפראג, ח”ב ע’ פג ואילך, (נתיב הלשון פ”ט), נדפס מכתב מתלמיד המהר”ל אל רבו, ובתוך הדברים כותב “מלאך ה’ בתוכנו, ישכון כבוד בארצנו, משיח צדקנו, בראשנו מלכנו, מלך יהודה, ראהו וישמחו במלכותו אדון כל הארץ יקרא, הגאון המופלא מוהר”ר יהודה ליווא יחי אדוננו לעולם וכסאו כשמש יהלום יכין נצח … כביר ונאור, רוח אפנו, משיח צדקנו, יחיד בדורנו, עין הארץ, אליך עיני ישראל ישברון לאמר יהוד”ה יעלה בתחילה” עיי”ש בארוכה. (ולהעיר שהספר הזה ביחד עם המכתב נדפס ע”י המהר”ל בעצמו, בשנת שנ”ו).

ובס’ שדה צופים על מס’ מכות ע’ ז, כותב בשם הרה”צ מקלויזנבורג “והרה”צ בעל דברי יציב זצ”ל אמר פעם בשיעוריו למס’ מכות, דמה שהביאו בעלי התוס’ כמה פעמים מפי מורו וחתם בר”ת משי”ח, מורי שיחי’, “כן נראה למשי”ח”, הכוונה לפי דברי הגמ’ דסנהדרין (צח ע”ב) דאיירי בשמו של משיח דבי ר’ שילה אמרי שילה שמו כו’, רואים אנו שהתלמידים האמינו כל כך בגדולת רבם עד שמצאו רמזים בתורה שרבם הוא משיח ה’, שלא נברא העולם אלא בשבילו כמ”ש ר’ יוחנן שם. ולכן חתמו בעלי התו’ תורת רבם בר”ת משי”ח להורות אמונתם שרבם ה”ה משיח ה'”.

ובהגהות שי למורה (להגאון בעל שואל ומשיב) על בית שמואל שמות גיטין אנשים אות ש’, כותב “ואני שמעתי שנמצא בקראקא ש”ס שהגיה הגאון מ’ שכנא ז”ל בפרק חלק בשמות של משיח שהגיה אני אומר שכנא שמו שנאמר לשכנו תדרשו”. ועד”ז בס’ ברכת המים – סדר הגט למוהר”ר מיכל ר’ יוזפש (דפוס ירושלים תשמ”ג ע’ רמ”ה) כותב “וגם שמעתי דכשלמד הגאון הנזכר בהגדה דפ’ חלק שנחלקו שם בשמו של משיח וכל א’ מביא סמך מן המקרא אמר הגאון אילו הייתי שם הייתי אומר שכנו שמה שנאמר לשכנו תדרשו וגו'”.
ובפי’ האור החיים הק’ על פרשת ראה טו, ז, כותב “משיח ה’ שמו חיים”. וידוע הסיפור עם המדפיס בשם “אשר” שהדפיס את האור החיים הק’ (דפוס שקלאוו תשמ”א) והשמיט את המילים האלו מהדפוס מפני שהאור החיים הק’ כיוון על עצמו, והראה לו הרה”צ ר’ פינחס מקוריץ איך שבפרשת נשא (ה, כח), בפי’ האור החיים הק’ “בין מאיש זה בין משאר” הדפיס “בין מאשר”. ואמר לו “ראה חותמך”. (ס’ דבר יום ביומו (קנולר) י’ אלול. צילום מהעמודים הנ”ל נדפסו בקובץ שפתי צדיקים, גליון ד’, (ירושלים תשנ”ב), ע’ צב-צג). וראה גם עטורי חיים (על האור החיים הק’) ע’ תמט.

וראה גם רד”ק על תהלים פט, מח “בכל דור ודור יתאוה מי שהוא מזרע דוד שתהי’ בימיו הישועה ויהי’ הוא המלך המשיח”.

וכן מצינו במשך הדורות שהיו כמה גדולי ישראל שאמרו עליהם (או שהם אמרו על עצמם) שהם ראויים להיות משיח (או משיח בן יוסף), כמבואר בספרים דלהלן:

שער הגלגולים הקדמה ל”ו הגה”ה ב’ (שבאם הי’ הדור זוכה, הי’ ר’ חיים ויטאל משיח בן יוסף), שבחי ר’ חיים ויטאל (בתחילתו, שנת ה’של”א); שער הספר לקוטי שושנים (הדפוס הישן) לר’ שמשון מאוסטרופוליא. דברי אמת (להחוזה מלובלין) פ’ ויצא ד”ה ויזכור; תולדות יצחק (לר’ יצחק כהנא, ירושלים תרמ”ד) ע’ קמא, אודות הגר”א; ס’ דגלי אהבה ח”ג ע’ תתקנ, על רבי עמנואל חי ריקי בעל המשנת חסידים; ס’ ספרא רבה דישראל ע’ קמ”ב משמי’ דהחת”ס על תלמידו ר’ משה קאנישא; רבותינו (וולף) ע’ קיג (שר’ איסר זלמן מלצר אמר שאם יאמרו לי שהחזון איש הוא המשיח, אאמין. ע”ש); ויקהל שלמה (רפפורט), ז, א; בנין שלמה (לנגרמן), לקוטים תלפיות ערך אש (אות לא), אודות הרמב”ם בדורו; מאמר מדרכי (וינגורה) ע’ 6-7, 17. תורת מהרש”ל ע’ קמט ואילך. רמתים צופים על תנא דבי אליהו, מהודרה החדשה ע’ תע ואילך (על הרה”ק ר’ שלמה מלענטשע); רזא דעובדא ח”ב ע’ ז. בית ישראל (קובץ אמרות מהרה”צ מרוזין, נכתב ע”י ר’ ראובן ז”ק) ע’ יד. נר ישראל (רוזין) ח”ד ע’ קיד. שם ח”ה ע’ סא, צב, רכח. תפארת ישראל (רוזין) קובץ יא ע’ 42 ואילך. שם קובץ כ’ ע’ 19. כתבי חסידים ראשונים לבית רוזין ע’ פג, פו. אבל מצרים ח”א ע’ ט, ב (“ידוע אשר רובא דרובא מצדיקי וגאוני הדור חשבו על זקינו הצדיק סבא קדישא האדמו”ר קדוש ישראל מרוזין זצ”ל שהוא יהי’ המשיח לישראל”). גנזי ישראל (טשורטקוב) הוצאת תשע”ד ח”ב, סדר קדשים ע’ 26 ואילך. ושם ע’ 74 (דברי הרב משה מרדכי אפשטיין על הרה”צ ר’ ישראל מטשורטקוב); אבן שתי’ החדש ח”א ע’ קב בהערה ג, אהל יצחק (וולדן) ח”ב ע’ ז, (וראה ברכת חיים (עפשטיין) ע’ כג בהספד על הרה”צ ר’ יצחק מווארקי); מפי ספרים וספרים אבות ח”א (מהדורת תשע”ג) ע’ שסז בהערה. קובץ בית אהרן וישראל, חוברת ט’, ע’ קה. שם קובץ לד, ע’ קנג ואילך. שמע שלמה (קליינבוים) ח”ב, אותיות מ, פ, פא. רשפי אש החדש ע’ צט. נפלאות הסבא קדישא ח”א ע’ 56 (ובמהדורה החדשה ע’ קמה). שיחת חולין של ת”ח החדש ע’ לג. אבקות רוכלים ע’ קצו. ילקוט יוסף (ילוז) ע’ 31, 42 ואילך. אמונת משה, במדבר, ע’ פז ואילך. שיח שרפי קודש (ראקוץ) ח”ג ע’ 19. שם ח”ה ע’ 92 ואילך (אות יז). כתבי ר’ יאשע שו”ב ע’ פו, רכג, רמד, רצה. מקור חיים (מיכלזאהן) ע’ לז, אותיות רסו, רסז. קדוש ישראל (רוט) ח”ב ע’ שיז. נחלי אמונה סלאנים, קובץ ח-ט (חשון – טבת תשמ”ג), ע’ לא ואילך; פעולת הצדיק אות תשכ”ז; מגדל עז (מונדשיין) ע’ תפו בהערה; אוצר פניני תורה וחסידות ע’ 292; שבחי רבינו השומר אמונים ח”ב ע’ כג; דרכי חיים ושלום סי’ רנו בהערה; תפארת רבותינו מאלכסנדר ע’ כד-כה; וראה ג”כ קבוצת כתבי אגדה ח”ב ע’ תקב. ועוד כהנה וכהנה.

@SQUARE_ROOT as explained in the sefer the Gemara Bavli Yerushalmi and Medrash say Moshiach can come from the living or dead.

As explained in Kuntres Shmoi Shel Moshiach they are all talking about Raui Lehyos Moshiach. Fit to be Moshiach.

No one is the Moshiach ie Ultimate Redeemer/ Goel Tzedek until after they build the bais hamikdosh and kibutz galios etc.

As quoted in the sefer Rambam holds that Hashem can make a Techiya Pratis before Moshiach comes.

Poshut pshat of Moshiach from the dead. Is he will experience an individual resurrection then fulfill all the messianic prophecies/ the messianic mission etc.

Until that happens do one is the actual Moshiach b’vadei. At most you can be bchezkas Moshiach. As explained in the sefer. I think you would do well to read it.

Lubavitch as all yidden are awaiting the Geula.

Then we will all benefit. Until that happens we can all benefit from ahavas yisroel and achdus yisroel.

@Emunas1 interesting way of understanding Rambam. And if Rambam would have said died instead of killed that would not negate yoshke?

How about Rambam says someone from bais dovid diligently learning Torah and doing mitzvahs etc. Surely that negates yoshke who chazal Rambam and rambaN state was never fit to be Moshiach even while alive?!?

Furthermore Rambam goes on to explicitly refer to Yoshke stating he was vulgar etc and killed by bais din….

You are very mistaken with your understanding of killed vs died…

In any event Rambam says those words on a bchezkas Moshiach only and states he loses his chazaka. Yoshke was never bchezkas Moshiach rachmana Litzlan…

@avi k not all agados are non literal. Please see Radvaz to Rambam Hilchos melachim perek 11 halacha alef stating Rambam poskened here by using agados and medrahsim same for halacha 3 and 4 which talk about chezkas Moshiach and vadei Moshiach.

Ie as shown in Kuntres Shmoi Shel Moshiach Rashi, Yad Ramah, maharsha and others all take the Gemara literally that Moshiach can come from the dead.

Just because that’s a fact does not make it dangerous or have any baring on false messiah’s being sheker…