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Unfortunately, people are enamored with the uniform and not the person wearing it.
Why is it that some people see nothing but negative and assume things are even worse than that?
Sof Davar. Neck lines and hem lines are an aspect of tznius that applies more to females than to males (unless you feel it is exclusive to females and you have no issues with a male walking around in a tank top and shorts?). My point is however, that hatzeah leches is a lot more than neck lines and hem lines and it applies ot everyone. So, unless someone is a navi, stop making the claim that it is breaches in how females dress as the cause for all of klal yisroels problems.
Food for thought. If frum males had their priorities straight, would frum females even think about dressing inappropriately?
Perhaps it is not the fault of females how they dress, after all it is the fathers and husbands that allow their wives and daughters to dress how they do, so it is the mens fault.
I admit I did not read any more than the 2 most recent messages on this thread and it is entirely possible that everything I write is entirely moot, however, I will write it anyway.
Why is everything always, women this and women that, the clothes are too long, too short, too tight, too colorful. Tznius is a lot more than hemlines, necklines and colors. If we are so sure that all our woes are a result of a “breach in tznius” (last time I checked there was no navi in my neighborhood), why dont we focus on yeshiva bachurim who wear Tommy Hilfiger (i’m picking on tommy because he is an anti semite, but I could just as easily written Nautica, Ralph Lauren, Izod etc) logos on their shirts, the fancy stitching on their shoes the belts with the buckles that could knock out a bull, the latest and greatest in thick framed glasses, men driving cars that say look at me, like an escalade, people building homes that stick out like sore thumbs on every block. Why are so many people obsessed with the showiest hat with the largest brim, the snazziest tie and so on. If everyone is so concerned with the attention females draw to themselves when they dress in a certain way, we should similarly be concerned with everything else that we do, men, women and children alike, that draws attention to ourselves. I’m tired of reading again and again, its those women who dress a certain way that are the cause of all klal yisroels ills.
“Asking for such a high price for buchrim shows the chashivus of Torah and learning.”
Actually, the Rosh Yeshiva was not selling his bachurim on the open market and he was not setting a price. He was explaining the reality of life that the bachur might be learning in 7-10 years from now and bezras hashem 4-5 kids and tuitions, rent, food, clothes etc. 50k-60k a year is what is necessary to live. To suggest the rosh yeshiva was saying anything else is insulting the rosh yeshiva.
“A girl who really values Torah will pay for it.”
Or as the rosh yeshiva was explaining, would have to have the ability to earn such an income.
Of course, any kollel couple, even with no kids, that has to have the nicest apartment, the newsest car, a budget for eating out 3 nights a week, vacations in florida during bein hazmanim, is constantly updating their wardrobe also needs 50k a year, altough I dont know how it shows much in their way of chashivus hatorah.
Why is mr wolf being attacked for basicly being “machmir” on himself? he had a number of valid assumptions why it would be ok to make a copy, nevertheless, it didnt sit well with him, and he didnt do it. did he violate some halacha, somewhere?
“One wonders why some people who are very stringent to keep every custom even when it may have little backing in
halacha are so lenient with this halacha which is based on the posuk in the Torah”
I assure you that if someone would propose that it is a segula not to copy CDs, nobody would do it.
You might respect an older person in shul, but you dont necessarily love them and on the flip side, as has been mentioned already the mother of a serial killer still loves her child although she doesnt respect him.
I think the basic point made here, is that even if you vehemently disagree with someone, the way to make your point is respectfully. When you say a polite good morning to your not yet frum neighbor, do you love him, or do you simply treat him like another human being. Nobody is suggesting giving him shlishi, but polite good morning is in order, he is still a tzelem elokim, albeit on the wrong track. How many people nowadays would actually fall into the “mumar lihachas” category?
Disrespectful? Now Iv’e heard it all!!!
“everyone agrees if a sefer is out of print you can copy it. do you know someone that doesn’t agree to that?”
Who from among everyone says you may?
If you live in NYC, http://www.nyc.gov/apps/311/about.htm
311’s mission is to:
Provide the public with quick, easy access to all New York City government services and information while maintaining the highest possible level of customer service.
Help agencies improve service delivery by allowing them to focus on their core missions and manage their workload efficiently.
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“poppa if more people thought the way you do, the world would be a better place”
We would not have had the fiasco in Emmanuel either.
“But can someone explain the blue shirt/white shirt thing to me?
Do all CC boys wear blue shirts? Does it mean something if they do/or don’t?”
There is no blue shirt/white shirt “thing”. There is no “thing” about clothes, other than the responsibility of a ben torah to dress like a mentch. If the shirt is blue, white, grey, pinstriped, whatever, the key is to look like a mentch.
No, all guys do not wear blue shirts. Some white, some pinstriped, other grey, although I wont go so far as to say “its a regular rainbow” because I dont think you’ll find purple or pink 🙂
Does wearing a white shirt or blue shirt, mean something in (not picking on a specific yeshiva, just naming the first 5 that popped into my head) Chaim Berlin, Mir, Torah Vodaas, BMG or Tez?
For what its worth, when I was in a “very greasy” (prefer not to say the name, but “very greasy” is how people describe it) yeshiva for several years (I switched out to CC) many of the “greasy” guys wore blue shirts and brown pants, admittedly, that was 25 years ago, but still, white shirts are a relatively new phenomena and has become the de facto uniform of “yeshivish” guys and those looking to fir into the mold.
Wolf. You may want to try http://www.hebrewbooks.org for a copy of the sefer. The site is dedicated to finding a storing online, out of print seforim of american rabbanim (although I have seen seforim of non american rabbanim as well on the site).
Shouldnt this be taken up with YWN directly?
The library a)purchased the book and b)it is illegal for borrower to copy any material from a book and c) you are permitted to lend your music CD to as many people as you want, they are not allowed to make a copy for themselves.
Gadlus Hadam is the mainstay of Slabodka mussar. Part of Gadlus Hadam is dressing like a mentch. A nice colored shirt does not detract from your dressing like a mentch. Colored shirts do not detract from being a ben torah in any way, despite what some folks may think. Is a white shirt with a Nautica logo on the pocket any more “yeshivish” than a blue shirt with no logo? There are plenty of CC folks who wear white shirts. CC is not obsessed with the color of the shirt/hat, rather the middos and mentslechkeit displayed by the wearer of said hat/shirt. There is no policy to wear a white shirt or a policy to wear a colored shirt.
Wasnt it R’ Elyashiv Shlita who said he would prefer to earn Olam Habba on his own merits instead of relying on segulos? the story goes that he was asked to be sandek at a bris of a great-great (maybe just one great) grandson and he kept saying no. He was told, “its a segula of some sort to be the sandek at a great-great (one great?) grandsons bris”. He replied, the trip to bnei brak and the resulting recuperation necessary will take away hours from his learning. He would prefer to earn his olam habba by learning than “by segulos”. That is the story. I dont know how cedible it is, or isnt, although I heard it from someone who is pretty credible.
Then again, if you ARE going to learn torah and earn the brachos and havtachos mentioned in the torah, you may as well learn the torah of someone who promises something on top of that, get a double bracha. Maybe that is a dumb thing to say, didnt really think about it to much.
The Star-K does not have a policy regarding the worms. The previous quote and their cnsumer advisory is not an indication that they assur anything. In fact, it appears to be more of a business decision than a halachic decision.
This comes from the Star-K site http://star-k.org/cons-vegdetail.php?ID=74
May 18, 2010
Recently there has been much discussion about the fish worms called Anisakis. These worms/parasites have been found in certain species of fish. Some Gedolei Eretz Yisroel have ruled that these worms are halachically prohibited and, therefore, those species of fish must be inspected prior to use. Since we at Star-K strive to have our kosher certified products accepted by all kosher consumers, Rabbi Moshe Heinemann has instructed Star-K establishments and mashgichim that only the non-problematic fish be used. Until we issue policies and procedures for inspections (as we have for vegetables and fruit) the problematic species of fish – fresh, frozen or canned – will not be used, even with kosher certification (unless prior approval is given by Star-K.)
Rabbi Heinemann recommends that consumers follow the same policy. Therefore, only non-problematic fish should be used until guidelines for inspection are issued. As with all halachic issues, people should follow the guidance of their personal Rav.
Updates will be posted on this site.
Update 6/18/2010: Star-K now permits canned wild salmon as long as the consumer mashes it prior to eating. Canned farmed salmon is permitted without mashing.
Policy
The following lists are based on research by Rabbi Gershon Bess. Note: Please READ CAREFULLY since there are some species of fish that appear on both lists. Their acceptability or non-acceptability depends on where they originate. We have no information about fish not included on this list.
Until further notice, only the variety of fish found on the following list may be used without any need for inspection:
Carp
Flounder – Only Fluke, Georgia Banks, Channel
Gefilte Fish
Herring fillet
Lox – Farm Raised
Minced Fish Sticks
Pike
Pollock – Atlantic
Red Snapper – Eastern or Atlantic only
Salmon – Farm Raised (e.g. Atlantic, Norwegian, Chilean, New Zealand, British Columbia )
Sardines – from Morocco, Philippines, Portugal
Tilapia
Trout
Tuna
Whitefish – Michigan-Lake Superior
Whiting
Until we issue policies and procedures for inspections (as we have for vegetables and fruit) the following species of fish (fresh, frozen or canned) should NOT be used (even with kosher certification):
Butterfish
Cod – Scrod, Hake
Flounder – Yellow Tail, Wild Dabs, Black Backs, Turbot, Yellow Fin Sole
Halibut
Red Perch
Red Snapper – Pacific
Sable a.k.a Black Cod – including Smoked
Sole
Yellow Fin Sole
I’m not a copywrite lawyer. I dont know what the law is.
“dont do it becuz of culture”
Cultured people spell it because. Those influenced by the culture spell it becuz 🙂
You provided a list of seforim whose authors promised all sorts of things. All I and several others have pointed out, is that the author of the torah also promised a segula if you learn his sefer too.
(Its been several years since I am out of the business and have not checked the copywrite law in several years, but as of a few years ago) the implied copywrite law covering CDs/DVDs (music, movies and computer software) is that it is sold as a single user license. In short, this means the movie can not be watched simultaneously on 2 players, the software run simultaneously on 2 computers or the music played simultaneously on more than one player. You are allowed to make as many back up (that was the reason argued originally) copies as youd like. The copywrite holders dont care about your backup copies. It is the simultaneous uses they are concerned about. You get a big yasher koach and thank you for buying my CD, you dont get a yasher koach for then distributing it to all your friends. If I wanted your friends to have it for free, I would give it to them directly.
“And we wonder why moshiach isnt here…. “
We havent found the segula yet?
In general, try not to wash a tallis to often. The natural color of wool, is yellow. The more you wash the fabric, the more you will fade the white dye!
“i believe that a black suit and white shirt is a very respectabel looking uniform”
For busboys, waiters, undertakers and penguins perhaps. Its nice to look like a yeshiva bachur, it is even better to act like one. That is the “thing” with CC.
There is a segular that is older than any of these seforim, in fact probably older than the age of all the seforim added up, its called ???-???????????, ????????; ?????-?????????? ???????????, ??????????? ?????. ? ?????????? ???????????, ?????????; ????????? ??????? ?????????, ????? ????????? ?????? ????????. ? ?????????? ????? ??????? ???-???????, ???????? ???????? ???-?????; ???????????? ????????? ????????, ???????????? ??????? ????????????. ? ?????????? ??????? ????????, ????????????? ?????? ????????; ?????????????? ?????? ?????, ???-???????, ???????, ???-??????? ????????????. ? ????????????, ???-??????????; ????????? ??????????, ???????. ? ????????? ?????? ????????? ?????, ??????? ?????? ??????? ??????????; ????????? ?????????? ??????????, ???????. ? ?????????? ????????–???????????? ???????, ????????????? ???????; ???????????? ???-?????????, ????????. ? ???????????? ??????, ???????; ????????, ???????? ?????? ??????????. ?? ?????????? ???????????, ???????????; ?????-??????? ????????, ???????. ?? ?????????????????, ???????????, ?????????? ?????, ?????????; ????????, ????????-??? ?????. ?? ????? ?????? ??????????, ?????? ????????? ??????? ??????? ?????????, ??????? ?????, ????????; ??????????? ????? ????????, ????????? ??????? ????????????
L613. You did not offend me. I was merely pointing out that there is no “thing” to the blue shirt, grey hat. The color is not important. Whats important is to look respectable and bakovodik.
“Dressing in a “yeshivish uniform” is the best reminder for me to stay true to the high standards and values that were taught to me in Yeshiva.”
The things I learned in Yeshiva and the impact that they made on me, are the best reminders for me to live up to the high standards and values learned in Yeshiva. I think too much emphasis is placed upon the color of the shirt and pants as a means of upholding values and standards and not enough emphasis is placed on internalizing the values that were learned.
“you assume that your outlook is the only one that counts”
The only outlook that counts, is the torahs outlook.
“The CR and the news page are run by a totally different system of moderation, and set of moderators.”
Perhaps they shouldnt?
As CC alumnus I can tell you that shirt and hat color are not a “thing”.
Bushkill Falls in Pa. About 1 hr from the “mountains” unless your already in the Pocnos 🙂
To answer the original question.
Dedi. The tune to his “yimloch hashem” is a Pat Benetar song.
Negina made popular a guitar solo from “The Doors” which is played often during “keitzad mirakdim” at chasunas sometimes they stick in a few bars of The William Tell Overture.
May orchestras use “Eye of the tiger” aka “the rocky song” to introduce a chassan and kallah. Another popular intro is from “The Alan Parsons Project” I even heard an intro based on Abbas “Gimme Gimme”.
Many many jewish songs from many composers and singers have snippets from non jewish songs liberally sprinkles throughout their songs.
YWN was not created for lashon hara any more than a grocery or a shul. Anywhere people get together there is the possibility of lashon hara. The web in general, and YWN by virtue of its being on the web is included in this, is a greater source of lashon hara. People feel empowered in some way by its anonymous nature and say things they otherwise wouldn’t say.
Is the web a source of lashon hara, yes. Is YWN any worse than any other site on the web, definitely not.
another yogism. baseball is 90% mental, the other half is physical.
YWN is no more a source of lashon hara than the local grocery or shul.
Well, to paraphrase Yogi, time to log off and get ready for shabbos since “it gets late early around here”.
“P.S. The ones that help the yeshivos and mosdos tend NOT to live in an extravagant and ostentatious lifestyle.”
Now who is implying something derogatory?
Wellinformed. Sounds like you heard the shiur “Fargin, Farkook, Fargess” too. 🙂
Kasha: You are avoiding the question.
(I am not Thewolfs tag team partner but would like to ask as well) Did Artscroll violate anything in the “5th chelek” by publishing the photo?
Speaking of famous lines: We have the famous Yogisms that are attributed to Yogi Berra.
Here is one attributed to his son Dale Berra. “You cant compare me to my father. Our similarities are different.”
My favorite Yogism. “A nickel aint worth a dime anymore”.
Kasha,
I think it is wonderful that you are mevatel your thinking to our chachamim. To take this discussion full circle, where have our chachamin stated that it is 100% assur for a married couple to hang their photo in their home? That is the question thewolf has asked. No source was given. I added that not only does it not appear to be not assur or even frowned upon, but reputable publishing companies publish these photos for thousands to see. Is Artscroll a psak halacha, of course not, but its not the point I was trying to make.
I’m never said, nor implied that Rav Moshe approved of the photo in the book. What I did say is that it is a posed photo of Rav Moshe and his Rebbetzin and that it was published by a reputable source who knew (or at least hoped) it would be read by thousands of people. What does it prove? Nothing. What does it imply? The publishers of the book did not think any issue of “displaying a photo of a married couple in a place where all could view it”. The relevance of this last sentence? Please read the opening to this entire thread.
I think Rabbi Reismans famous shiur titled “Fargin, Farkook and Fargess” is in order here. So, someone built a mansion, Fargin (I’m not really sure how to translate this word into english) him his mansion and there will be shalom al yisroel. Its when you (we) start trying to figure out his motivations and start discussing him and the things he does is when we have issues such as lashon hara, etc…
I’ve never really thought about it, until reading this thread. Shouldnt the effect the music has on a person determine if it is proper or not?
If something is composed by someone who goes to the mikvah before he writes each stanza, with lyrics that come straight out of Tehillim, yet it leads you to get up and gyrate in ways Hashem did not intend for the human body to bend (OK, I am exaggerating, a little, I admit, but you get my point), that is OK because of its source, but if it is composed by a goy while eating a cheeseburger and the music is soothing and relaxing, or gets you to tap your feet to the rhythim, that is no good (assuming the lyrics are not objectionable) because of the source?
“hear please”?
I guess it is the equivilant to the english “excuse me for a moment?” instead of “listen up”.
You think Artscroll got a bootleg photo and put it in the biography? You dont think it came from the family for the purpose of having it placed in the book? However they obtained the photo, do you believe they did anything wrong by publishing it? Is there anything wrong with looking at the photo? Is it different if it hangs on the living room wall for all to see?
Myfriend: I am NOT bringing a raya from Artscroll 🙂
It is a POSED photo, it looks like it was taken at a simcha. Both are posed and smiling for the camera. They are VERY aware it would seem that someone was taking their picture (I would find it hard to believe that someone “happened” to get a picture that looks like a portrait.
Regarding “herna”, it is really 2 words “herr” and “nach” (I believe is proper pronunciation) or in english, “listen up”.
He would say things like “herna, more cholent?” or “herna, we ready for dessert?”
The point I was making and did not make very well, is that while trying to be a yareh shamayim, or perhaps take advantage of this segula, he called his wife as if she were the cleaning lady. Now I made the point a bit clearer.
“Many Yarei Shamayim, for that reason, won’t call their wife’s name in public.”
when I was a bachur, I used to eat quite often by a family. It took me perhaps 8-10 visits to the home before I realized that the Mrs.of the home was not named “Herna” by her parents 🙂
Back to the opening of this thread.
“Mind you, we’re not talking about putting her picture on a billboard or on a magazine, but just hanging on the wall of my own house. Nonetheless, he said, it’s forbidden.”
See page 252 of Artscrolls Biography of R’ Moshe. There is a portrait photo of R’Moshe and his Rebbetzin. If it was 100% assur to hang such a photo in ones home, is it not that much worse to then take the same photo and print it in a book that would be sold to thousands of people and read by even thousands more? there are similar such photos in the book as well as in other biographies. If it IS Assur, perhaps this person should explain that to the folks at Artscroll so that they wont be nichshal so many people.
I don’t know where the line is, or should be. I will say that I think it was crossed by the fellow who sang “Hodu LaHashem Ki Tov” in Hallel to the tune “Angel” (Prefer to leave out rest of title) by the Jay Geils band.
Myfriend: I didnt say it, nor did I mean to imply it. I am not issuing a psak for anyone.
“Do any of you hand-holders hold your wifes hand for a reason other than derech chiba?”
When helping her across a rough patch of sidewalk (plenty of those in brooklyn), or when the streets are icy (plenty of those in brooklyn too, during the winter), older couples use each other for support. Is every interaction with ones wife “derech chiba”. Is every interaction with a woman in general “derech chiba”? Back to the KSA, do people have “hirhurim” when they see a couple holding hands? The KSA is clearly discussing these halachos and uses the term derech chiba and gives a reason as well. I’m not rendering an opinion whether it is muttar or asur to hold the hand of ones wife in public, but AM stating that not all interactions between a husband and wife are “derech chiba”, perhaps this is one of them. It may fall into the “nit shain” category as Rav Henoch Lebowitz Z’l used to call it, but assur, perhaps not.