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If we were talking about just one perosn then you can say navi sheker. But there is a huge list of gedolim who both the chazon ish, satmar reba and others were close to who did ACTIONS that were pro zionsit. So many navi shekers? Its you who decided its sheker based on your narrow view. If you start with an open mind and see what they did before you decide then you’d relaize hey we have great people that did like this, it must not be sheker.
Why do people have to PUBLISH sefarim to answer to the Satmar Reba ZYA? Firstly many of these gedolim were older and they certainly don’t have to “publish” sefarim. here again you just make up stuff. You made up that unless its in a sefer it doesn’t count. That’s your own false purim torah. Stop making stuff up. And the few that did print sefarim like we pointed to don’t count.
If someone raises an Israeli flag then you doesn’t need to “explain ” himself. you decided this nonsense that a person must “explain” themselves. As they say ACTIONs speak louder than words. He has no need to expalin himself. Its obvious from his actions. In the case of R sharga fievel who made a bracha on the state he did explain himself loud and clear. I heard the explanation from his talmidim. And he held a statehood is a good thing. No he didn’t write a “sefer” But so what.
I’ll just repeat again, typically by a navi sheker like Shabsi tzvi, the reform or conservative movement etc. the next generation doesn’t stay frum. Neither does the students of the funder. Here you have R Kook ZL who established Hesder yeshiva which is sold frum, he had talmidm that were from the biggest poskim like R Elyshaiv amd R shloma zalman.
When you have so many ACTIONS that did things to support the medina that was Intentional” because they are very specific actions. I don’t buy that torah of “unintentional either
And again R elishav and R Yosef worked for the state of israel. if thats against our torah how did they do it? Can i go work for JTS or in a reform temple?
Bottom line stop making up your own goal posts . No such thing that one has to write a “sefer” . Or that one needs to answer to the Satmar reba.. They are just as holy and don’t need to answer.
So lets repeat so that the audience hears the truth. ZIONISM HAS A STRONG ROOT IN OUR TORAH. MANY HOLY JEWS SUPPORTED THE IDEA OF SATEHOOD. AND R KOOK Z’L WAS A VERY HOLY TORAH TZADIK.
@Rocky,
Sorry for the typos
None of the yingerlit receiving kollel checks get that from pel grants. Thats fully fundraised via Scheiner at $80m a year. via the aderi torah campaign.
$1K per student is a start. Just like it cost about $90-$100K to marry off a daughter and we have big bali Chasidim who built affordable wedding halls that save $5K. Its only 5% but it helps.To your last point, fair point. I don’t know that your math is correct and if all 400K children’s live in areas with no govt vouchers etc. And the chasdim already have such a system so we need not include them. If $1000 is too much then even $500 helps. And yes someone as established is torah umesora should be able to raise $100M with alot of work
To your last point, I don’t think that’s a fair argument. I am not a fundraiser nor in that business. Torah umesora is here for that purpose. its purpose is to help the yeshivas. Its our “educational” go to center. They have their pulse on the frum yeshivas and bais yaakov system. What else should be their purpose if not this? I understand that this would be a huge undertaking. But so was opening up yeshivas in far out places in the 50’s. A mossad is their to sweat and do hard work.
@somejewiknow
Because it isn’t torah only. Its your biased narrow view. As we noted, ACTIONS by many leading gedolim that are crystal clear arethe clear torah proof. You don’t need seforim published to establish facts. If a gadol raises an Israeli= flag or says halell, or ferrs tisch, or makes a bracha,in front of many mnay people those aren’t “questionable acts” where maybe they meant something else. Those are clear statements that they meant to support zionsim and that its a torah view as well.
Furthermore, when a gadol like R Kook ZL has holy tamidim like R Elyashiv and R Shloma zalman who never renounced him and were holy jews. you can’t call him a heretic. Again these are like ACTIONS.@Always_Ask_Questions,
Quite the opposite. those on Govt programs earn enough and should indeed be charged a higher tuition. After SNAP, HUD, Medicad, HEAP, CHS they come out ahead. The issue is for middle class earners who work and try to earn enough yet its impossible to afford tution even on a 200K salary. Thats where its time to create a scholarship fund for them
@Rocky,
None of the yingerlit receiving kollel checks get that from pel grants. Thats fully fundraised via Scheiner at $80m a year. via the aderi torah campaign.
$1K per student is a start. Just like it cost about $90-$100K to marry off a daughter and we have big bali Chasidim who built affordable wedding halls that save $5K. Its only 5% but it helps.To your last point, fair point. I don’t know that your math is correct and if all 400K children’s live in aeras with no govt vouchers etc. And lthe cahsdim already have such a system so we need not include them. If its 1000 then even 500 helps. And ues someone as established is torah umesora should be able to rasie $100M with alot of work
To your last point, I don’t think that’s a fair argument. I am not a fundraiser nor in that business. Torah umesora is here for that purpose. its purpose is to help the yeshivas. Its our “educational” go to center. They have their pulse on the frum yeshivas and bais yaakov system. What else should be their purpose if not this? I understand that this would be a huge undertaking. But so was opening up yeshivas in far out places in the 50’s. A mossad is ther to sweat and do hard work.
@2scents,
From a secular standpoint I am an anti trumper, In other words I am only pro trump because of Israel and the muslims. I think his domestic ideas are all crazy and nuts. And I do believe he is guilty of the crimes that he was indicted for in all 4 places. I also believed Biden was a decaent upstanding man. This commutation dissappoints me, Moreover, I think it talks to the broader point about Israel.. We see how Biden has pity even on the lowest of the lowest criminals. Make no mistake, this is also how he views the Palestinian terrorists too. Yes they are evil but we can’t kill them or cause them to die. This kind of naive bleeding liberal religious view is dangerousThis is a very good question. In other words why doesn’t it create a fund to solve the tuition crisis. Any parent who earns below x times the poverty level for his family size should be able to get say 1k per child. (So maybe anyone earning less than 400% of poverty level or 450% and not receiving support). They’d also have to apply the value of govt programs. So let’s say you only earn income wise 200% but after programs you are receiving 500% of poverty level you wouldn’t get this grant.
I know this would be very expensive but if BMG can raise $80M per year why can’t they raise $100M? And use it to help struggling middle class ?
The good Biden has done. Commute the death penality for creepy child murderers and rapists. Yup very good
@somejewiknow
I showed you torah reponses and pointed you to it. But you dismss it because you are a close minded naive jew who thinks only your way is right.
Furthermore, you make it sound like oh you need a “torah response” like in a sefer written down. Thats baloney and your own made up lies to push yourself ion this box you create.. The Torah reponse is the way other gedolim responsed with ACTIONS. Its not just what they write in a sfer. You make up your own rules as they go along. Now how did other big leaders REACT. Well lets see, some made a barcha when the israel was founded, some said hallel and some ferred tish. Another r Action is the talmidim R Kook ZL: had. Many many huge gedlom. That’s the proof and unless you deny those proofs you are lying. Your goalposts are your own made up lies.That was R Yedid postion. But if you look letters from the Imeri emes even we speaking sharp he only has the biggest kovod for him and does not call him a masis i’madiach . I told you already that the chafetz cahim held the same. In additon are you telling me that R Elshyav & R Shloma zalman learned by a masis i’madiach ? All R Kook’s supporters like R Isser Zalman meltzer, the titz elizer ,, R tzvi pesach frank, the nazir etc all supported a masis i’madiach ?
Your porbelm is you have one narrow shita and you’ll find that one gadol that says like you and that become toras moshe . meanhwile everyone else doesn’t count. Good so you have R Yedid and Satmar Reba. Big deal. Who are you to open your fat trap and decide because of those few. Shame on you. Wash your mouth out. R Kook was holy jew.
Zionsim has a place in judiasm accodring to many views. And the overhleming majorty held R Kook was a GADOL. (Albiet some held he was mistaken) Enough of your lies and nonsense.
Unfortunately blame for the growth of the anti vaxer movement is the Govt under Fauci during covid.
Mandated Vaccine requirements push masses to distrust the govt. Especially when the vaccines aren’t needed for those who had covid. Nor do the vaccines protect from getting sick. It only protects against dying. I recall Dr Brix saying its your choice and we won’t force it and then she forced it.
Govt Shutdowns: Sure it helps but to close things for 6 -12 months is insane. Humans are functions of social interactions. Shutdowns are draconian measures. It should only be used to get grip on things like for a month.
And of course masks.
All this caused a major erosion of mistrust. Then you want to know why people aren’t taking Vaxines? Next time when you think about health policies, think about the effects it can have physcologiiclly .@Haimy
Misconceptions:
1) That most gedolim per war rejected “secular Zionism”. Note I call that “secular ziosnim vs pure zionsim. I disagree and don’t think thats true. There were plenty gedolim who did hold of zionism. And in fact mizrachi was part of agudah till the machloks between R chaim ozer Zl and r Rubenstein Z”l. Even after that dispute many still held of zioinsim while other opposed it for secular reasons. We know for exmaple that the riyzna rebas all held strongly of zionism.
2) That separating and buidling a wall around the secular forces is the approach that we must take. This was the shita of Harav Hirsch But even he still held to mingle somewhat. The yekkis were very into obtaining degrees at secular colleges and working with non jews por non frum jews. And so the idea that the kehila can’t be separate but you leave the walls to go to work or college is simply not true. Now yes there is the R Lichetnstien aka R Hillel Kamiya’s group who enacted a “tieling” . But even the ksav sofer never fully signed up on that. Moreover, the litfisha velt never ascribed to that ideology at all.
3) Mizrachi today is stronger and frummer than ever. No People are not going off. Yes the MO in America is loosing alot but not mizrachi. In fact its producing more and more talmedi chachomim. Look at all the miazrchi in Gaza. See the mesiras nefesh they have to daven and learn in such harsh conditions. Listen to R Asher Weiss cry about the shalias he receives from crippled IDF soldiers about putting on teflin or other things they think of. The fact that they are so strong and are only getting stronger is a testament to the fact that there a place in torah Judaism for that.@yechiell
I’d beg to differ. I think Polio is an issue now because of the Biden administration and Fauci. I blame the proliferation of the growing anti vax movement as a pushback against to much govt interference into our private lives. People are frustrated at forced covid vaccine mandates. People are mad about govt shutdowns for months on end. People are mad about masks. Now I don’t disagree with the idea of any of those. But here is the thing.
Covid vaccines: When it first came out I remember Dr Birx saying we understand vaccines are a tough choice but we encourage you to take them. That should of been the message vs a forced mandate.
Shutdowns: This is a draconian measure. Humans need to socially interact. Its good for when we can’t handle things like during the first onset of the outbreak. But at a certain point after a month or two that should have reopened.. Its not intended as a cue for 6 months straight.
When the govt overdoes it, it erodes trust.in our system. They never thought about the damage and psychological pushbacks that would occur. Its their fault more than Trump or RFK@bprince613
I don’t fully buy your story. And then there is Hesder. Some of those solders are so ehrlich. I don’t see shmad. As R Asher Weiss the kind of shailas he gets from so many of these solders that make him cry. Like these holy jews who lost hands and need to know which one should he put on teflin. Look at the torah and davening done in Gaza. These aren’t “shmad”. And yes there are isolated stories of the IDF forcing things on nachal chardei but its mostly isolated incidents. Its not the normal day to day. Your stories are more fear mongering than reality.
@anIsraeliYid; Most gedolim pre war who were against Zionism were against being secular vs zionsim. Like the imeri emes etc. And so when you look at the dynamics today there are differneces. Firstly, the state is here already and its not just should a secular state exist but how to deal with it. Second, there is no movement any more that encourages wild scale shmad like the “isms” pre war Europe. Mostly the frum stay frum. The govt also is no longer out to shamd the frum like Ben Gurion did. They do want them to leave kollel and integrate more but they aren’t saying don’t keep shabbos or mirzvas. Yes I hear of these isolated stories where they force frum people to hear Kol Ishah. But its isolated with a few bad actors. Even the biggest anti frum like Lapid aren’t looking to make you irrelgious. They just want them to intergrate, be like the rest of the country just religous.. More like a classsic flatbush or 5 towns working dad is fine with them. (I agree that it is still anti chasdish but one can debate about the chasdish lifestyle yet still be frum)@yacr85,
Huh?
1) Re Lebanon:
A) Of course the ground invasion did it. And yes the ceasefire was what allowed people to move back. But what do you think pressured Hezbollah into a ceasefire? The combination of the air attacks and that the entire south Lebanon was wiped out by the ground invasion. That included all their strategic locations. Addiotnally, the IDF was its on way to Beruit. They didn’t want a “ground invasion” of Beruit. Like what else do you think forced Hezbollah into a ceasefire? The air alone would have never done that. Get real.
B) Is the North safe now? yes 100%. And thats because of the ground invasion. The biggest risk was that hezbollah was building up in prep for an Oct 7 like attack on its border. The whole south is wiped out and Hezbollah has nothing there. They are completely obliterated in the south Lebnaon. They had tunnels and weapons and miliatry bases/ bunkers all over. Thats all gone. So yes the north is very safe now. I’d have no issue living there. And the ground invasion was needed.
c) Hezbollah is a little nothing now. It will take years to rebuild it and without Syria help. This is a clear win. Of course many low level terrorists still remain but they are a nothing. No power and no way to pose a threat now for a long time.
2) Gaza: Of course those hostages were freed because of the IDF attacks. What forced that first round of negotiations? The fact that Hamas was hopping the IDF won’t invade Gaza city like it did to North Gaza. The invasion sacred them. Now is Hamas defeated? Thats not as clear as Hezbollah. But they are extremely weak. They have no infrastructure and their land is in such disarray. Israel is not leaving so quikcly and they know it. They can want to attack again with a vengance but they will have a very very hard time attacking now. israel is on top of thwem and in Gaza. They will continue to ack them and watch over them like a hawk. Many of their tunnels are gone. Its at least a ten year set back.Your logic that war doesnt do this but ceasefires do is so flawed. What pushes them into a ceasefire in the first place? The ground invasion’s and war. of course this is necessary. Now is it a “mitzva” I don’t know. But its not “bibi’s war”
@ Haimy,
The leaders of the last generation strongly discouraged yeshiva boys from fighting . In the early days there were many not in yeshiva yet still charedi who fought. Look at pictures from the six day war. I should say leaders from two generations ago vs last generationAsk the Gorelicks
@somejewiknow
Here is the place for your open conversation. Lets not create goal posts that zionism is “halacha” and you need seforim and poskim. Its hashkafa and we look at how gedolim acted. We have chasdisha reba who fered tsih yom hatzmut, holy jews who made brochos and declared they’d fight for EY if they can like R shrage feivel., holy jews who raised Israeli flags, holy talmidum of r kook zl..Zionism is a hashkafa question in which many rabbonim supported it as the torah way.
@yacr85,
We need to work our way backwards on your comment.The war in the north was a “watse of time”? Umm Hezbollah is basiclly completely destroyed and cannot lobby missiles at israel any more. Syria which is their route fell apart as a result of the war and Iran is weakened. I think anyone with an honest side will tell you israel fully won that part of the war unlike 1982 , 2000 & 2006 when we lost these wars. I don’t know how you can logically call that a waste of time.
Now lets turn to Gaza: Firstly over 100 hostages were set free early on due to military pressure. IYH soon the other 50 or so remaining will be freed as well. Things look promising and we continue to daven. But the war with Gaza wasn’t just to free the hostages. if it was then you could argue that it was a mixed scuesss. Nebach unfortunately it looks like we may lose 50-75 heilga nefoshos of those hostages. We already know of about 15-20 killed in captivity nebach directly because of the IDF operations on top of those from other causes.. However the goal is to make Hamas incapable of comfiting Oct 7 again. That goal has been acheived. For a very long time they won’t be able to march in and do this again. So no it isn’t a waste of time and very worthy war.
That bring me to me the next point of syaing oh its the “secular Israeli’s ” looking to shamd us who decided on this war. No thats false. This was an obivously needed war to stop missiles from the north and to stop Hamas & Hezbollah from comtting Oct 7. Its not a war that the secular zioinsits decided to wage. Its a war that was forced upon us and now its fight or we will die again. Now is that a “milchmas miztva”? I have no clue. But its a necessary war.
A few mistakes
1) The issue of Zionism isn’t a “psak”. Its not based on daled chelcki shlachan aruch. Its hashkafa.
2) Actions of holy people count as being supportive of that hashkafa and they don’t all need to “write” sefarim.
3) many sefarim are around and were peer reviewed by others that are pro zionism.
4) Talmidum of R Kook who also supported him while continuing to be marbatz torah count.
5) Kofrim don’t have a kyuim hadoros. Noone form shbasi tzvi or the reform movements grandchildren stayed frum. Same thing with the conservative movement. Hesder yeshiva is extremely frum and torahdik. That proves its emeskit.
6) Oppostion to secular zionsim (like the imeri emes was) isn’t oppistion to zionsim@somejewiknow
There isn’t a “psak” about Zionism. You made that up from bodeim. It’s an ideology where people were against it . You make things up. Baloney.
Now if you want to call it a “counter psak “, I quoted many and yes we do have many more counter pasaks. I told a few above on top of R Kook who in his own right can hold it.I don’t get your point re conservatives. My point is, those that joined it were ex communicated from our community even if religious. Are you going to belittle R elysshav and R Yosef? It’s Clear that it’s not kefira or they would not have worked for them. It sounds like you are belittling them a little. That talks to your hot head close minded nonsense . That everyone is a kofer but you. Who do you think you are to belittle these great people ?
Furthermore, it’s been proven in history that movements who are kefira become not religious and don’t observe mitzvas after 1-2 generations. Look at shabasi tzvi and the reform movement. Now go take a look at hesder the mizrachi movement founded by R kook 100 years ago. It’s even more religious and frummer now . Look at how ehrlich its soilders are. Kefirs doesn’t stick. R kook stuck
@gottytruth
How long ago? This is a failry new shift. (10-15 years ago)Just pointing out, this sounds like its a boys school with a female thrid grade teacher.. I can’t imagine that school rules are so rigid then. In a real “yshivish or chasdish boys school 3rd grade teachers aren’t females.
@gottytruth
What wrong with using filtered smartphone? Its here to stay. Its a nice chumra that you don’t use it but its time to get real. Judiasm isn’t about being AmishYou are a stubborn hot head who refuses to creep out of the bubble you live in. I make no bizyun hatorah. I speak the emes and don’t just fall for how I was barinwashed.
You continue to ask me who are these people? And then you keep on moving thse goal posts and making up new corooked “boch sveros” on who has an opinion in this. But lest talk about your “peer review” shallow argument. So lets see who “peer reviewed”?
R Kook had many who “peer reviwed” him and stood on his side. R Isser Zalman Meltzer, R Tzvi pesach Frank, the titz elizer , the nazir, and many many more. These were big gaonim. Furthermore, he had talmidum who were huge. Sometimes you can see from ones talmidim. Notice how Shabis Tzvi didn’t leave over lasting talmdim who were our gedolim. But R kook did. They range from R Shloma Zalman, R Elyshav and many others that were older.
Re Rabbi Freidman who peer reviewed? Well the entire rizyna dynasty did. They include the shtefenstha reba, (Talimdim , Skulner reba and ribntza), Sadygur, Bohaush, Chortkov, Boyan etc. Rizyahn was huge pre war. They all agreed with him and in fcat followed in his ways. he wrote a sefer and the sadigura fered tsih yom hatzmut. Thats peer review.
Let move to Punvitcha rav, At that ground breaking cermeony, secular left wing leaders from the knesset spoke. The chazon ish was there with him. Take a look at the agudah syuim hashas where they are scared to put up H Hersechel Shachter who is barely even MO, because they will get in trouble. If its mamesh kefira would he have done that woth the chazon ish? (I mean yes the badatz held it was kefira and they posted patchkivillan against the punivtcha rav for that. But obvioulsy it wasn’t widely accepted). He also raised the flag on yom hatzmut. Imgaine if I raised a Hamas flag. would I get away with it?
Now lets move to R Elyashiv and R Yosef, both worked for the govt with R Yosef as chief rabbi for the state. If the state is all kefira how can they do that?is it OK to be a rebbe in JTS? I think we all agree that Sol Liberman who was gaon and aside for maybe R Moshe knew more torah than anyone else in the USA. Yet being a rebbe for the conservative movement completely passuled him. He himself was frum but we ex-comminincated him becasue his work was defactor endorsmenet of the movement. This is all as you say a “peer review” to the idea that zionsim is not clearl;y against our torah.
Now lets turn to Rabbi JB who was the head of mizrachi. R Aron speak harshley against him. But at the same time, they both ran chinuch atzmui. Theyw ere very close. I heard from an eyewitness that R Aron walked into YU to ask Rabbi JB to give a talmid a job there. He came to his levaya. R Aron did not agree with his hshkofoes. That’s clear. But a kofer?? Is it OK to run an organziation that teaches torah with a “kofer”?
Oh and yes 75% of frum jews who were pro the state of Israel were all kofrim. Oh I am sorry there aren’t as many sefarim quoting these people so they must be a kofer. Actions don’t matter only whats in a narrow sefer.
I could go on and on. And I have no doubt that you’ll drei akup. This is what liars like you do. You are so stuck in your own kool-aid. The evidence smacks you in the face that there are two sides. You’ll never see the truth. But I refuse to ever let you get the alst word on this. I won’t stand for bullies like you. You could contin ue to write and I wil always repeat the following.
The Issue of zionism is a debate among our holy sages. Some held its against our torah while others held its very much within our torah and whats wanted from us. Almost all agreed that seculrism is trief although there is a debate how much to tolerate that. The majorty of oppostion to the state of israel was because they are secular but not because ideally we can’t have a state.
@Avram in MD
I am not here to debate whether having a smartphone is suggested or not. I hear your point about addiction but I think its just so the normal and regular. You just can’t live the Amish. Its going to be the new norm like a car. There are teshivas against taking atrain because people will go to the city and become frei. Guess what the arucah hahluchan was spot on. Thats what happened. But when it becomes so widespread and so the new norm fighting it isn’t the answer. Soon you will need that phone for every daily usage like swipping it for credit cards , going on the city bus, signing forms etc.But I repeat this isn’t what I am looking to debate. lets focus on Tag charging money for filters.
The compasion to hashgachas is a weak one at best. I’d compare it to shul membership maybe. Most shuls don’t “require” membership. They strongly encourage and nudge people. People realize on their own to pay. But noone throws people out if they don’t pay. In our shul we consider them as equal members. This is how I think TAG should work too, Strnomgly encourage paying but don’t offically charge. Its not like a hashgacha that’s a minimum cost and where people are sold to the cause.Re the non for profit aspect. I get that legally and probably halchalcly they can charge. I just say its not in the spirit of how most frum people view mossod who generally does not charge for services. When they make a TAG shabbos the rav is saying its “tzaedka”. Whats the “tzedka” if they charge? Because they offer “awareness” for free? (don’t get me started on “awareness”. Tag shita is that its all trief to start and only with alot of convincing bdieved is anything kosher. the 24-6 commotion is a prime example. Its the best invention and BH I got my kids off you tube because of that. But mo its all trief)
Let me make my key point though: TAG can do whatever they want. But realize that you or they are leaving behind a whole proportion of klal yisroel by charging. Not everyone is sold on the necessity and/or technology is both a big pull and the way forward. They have the most powerful mike and its up to them to bring those people in too. Or they can be like the tznuis asfias that only those with short shitels attend already while the rest of kall yisroel just ignores the issue. We need to start waking up to the reality that there is whole segment of charedi jews (whether chasdim or litfaks) who look at these things as extra frum but not a necissity. Those that are sold on these things will be aware of the dangers anyhow. in 2024 there is no excuse why they can’t do the right thing, offer free filters and focus on winning over this growing sectorof those not sold on this who are ignored.
We also need to stop this madness that smartphones are bad. If you want that extra chumra to live without one so be it. But its just one of these technologies like cars that are here to stay. Or like going to Manhattan full of priztus. Or the idea that we can’t look at a moving screen. Who still never sees any videos of any sort? This idea that we need to live in a cave or live like the Amish is just ridiculous. Now if the smartphones were unflitered then yes you have a very valid point.
This has gotten so silly that I know a hatzalah guy who told me a patient needed to sign a form on his device and the pateint refused because she was mekabel to never touch a smart phone. So he had to wait and delay her much needed care. The world has gone mad.
Here is one more sefer: Eim habnim semicha by R Yissachar Shlomo Teichtal. I am sure you” say he is nobody too. LOL
How did I know you’d push aside the sefer I provide?
Re “how they acted” Thats the point first you need to stop saying its kefira. Have an open mind. Look at their action. Then say OK these were big people and supported it so its NOT clear kefira. Its only Kefira according to some poskim. If big rabbis ferred tsih on yom hatzmut or said a bracha on the medina its not clear kefira. First establish the facts.
the author is not someone of stature that demand anyone taking him seriously
Yes he is. Why is he not someone of stature? because you decided? He was a holy chasdisha reba.Who acknowledged his supposed zionist shita?
Umm nearly every Rizyna reba. As i told you the actions of sadygura rebas , Shetfenesht , Bohuash etc all clearly follow this path. Even if you don;t want to judge by actions once you have a sefer to back it up, its now clear. By the way if you know anything about Rzyhn its generally one cohesive chasduis even with different rebas . When one of the ruzyhna rebas speaks he speaks for all of them.He was not put in cherem. How did he differ from R kook? Well R Kook zl issue was that he accomdated the non frum seculars too much. The criticism against R Kook zl by some like the Imeri emes was due to secularism and not zionsim. (yes some were against both but not all). The reba in this case was purely talking about zionsim. He wasn’t suggesting that we accommodate or validate secular forces.
Side bar This cherm of R Kook is partliy fake news. Made up by hot heads like you. Its not clear how serious the cherem was. After the cherem was signed R Chaim sonnenfeld still sat near him by events. So yena cherem. And based on what you are saying why would R Shloma Zalamn learn by someone in cherem and have him be mesadr kiddushin? So this alleged cherem is to be taken with a grian of salt. I speak the emes
So for all the readers lets make this clear: The question of whether torah conflicts with zionsim is a debate among big gedolim. Both sides are holy. Zionists are not koferim and are jews like the rest of us. Meanwhile Satmar and other anti zionsits are also holy jews. Zionsim is not clearly anti torah. There is a place according to many gedolim.
Sorry but you are the mockery of torah. You make a pre concieved fact as a given and refuse to look at the obvious on the ground. None of my fcats are grasoing on straws.
@Avram in MD,
“You do not “need” a smartphone in the same sense that you need food”
Incorrect I need it for my parnsa and wouldn’t have food without it. Its also pretty much a necessity in the modern world. I get that many jews live without it. I respect them for that. But relaize that its a little like telling someone you do not need electricty because you can live like the amish. Society is kind of past that. Go outside the frum world and you’ll see just how much people use it. But I am not here to debate this issue so much.” If you purchase a problematic device, then it’s up to you to make it safer.”
Umm I am not yet convinced that I need a filter to keep it safer. I can use childlocks etc. You are telling me from a religious point of view that i need one. OK but then offer it for free because I am just not such a deep believer in the cause. Unless you don’t care about getting us less believers to filter.Re “They kvetch, but they still buy eggs” yes but when not sold on the idea of TAG they won’t buy a filter. And no I am not unque in the idea of just not wanting to pay for things. I hear that in the street and all over. Free is free no matter how lavish i live.
Yes I feel resentment when an organization thats a tzedaka and here to help the klal charges . You got it. Mnay can afford bikur cholim and don’t need their free meals in hopsitals. But its off put to charge us even if I can afford it. And guess what I swipe my card when i take a nice hot meal from them. Id do the same for TAG too. But don’t charge me.
Same with your excuse that time is money. Cmon you are a tazdaka . Thats what tzedka does. You give free time to others. I do that as a chesed too. Otherwise what makes you a “tzeadka” that I should donate to? (To be cheap on one time $20?)
Bottom line, I have a hunch you work for TAG. But it all boils down to the same thing. I and many resent the fact that you charge. We aren’t sold that all filters are needed. We think you are out to get our money when you nickle and dime (like charging $20 for two minutes of work to block texts on a flip phone). We think its a chutzpah to call yourslef a “non profit” when all you do is charge us money. Its not just me who feel this way. Its many many more than you think. All your argumets boil down to this idea that you are not obligated to give free things and why should you differ than a for profit business? But they all ignore the basic idea that its just “klein kepadik”, small minded. Its 2024 and there is so much money for everything. You can easily afford to provide free filters to all even via 3rd party vendors that by now you own or are well connected with. Its doable in 2024. This isn’t 1970. And Many just will never have respect for a “non profit” that nickles and dimes. (As I noted you’d be able fund raise alot more if you just gave it all for free).
@Always_Ask_Questions:
Once you go that route the list gets beyond huge. I mean you really think R Herzog, the next cheif rabbi after R Kook zl was also a CVS a kofer? Look at how much torah he learned. look at how many jews he saved during the war. Then there are all the talmidm of R Kook ZL like the nazir and R isser Zkaman Meltzer’s son. R isser zalman himself was very close to R kook. This list of chashuva mizrachi rabbonim who even most tratitonal charedim won’t call a kofer is huge. But my point is even many rabbonim who we’d consider charedi or accepted in Charedi circles were pro Zionist. The idea that we must follow the shlosh shevous was refuted in many sefarim.. Firstly its an aggadta and our mesora is not to pasken like an agaddta. Secondly, the 3 shavous is only if the goyim keep their deal and don’t start up with jews. There are other refutations too.But the key point is many charedi leaders held of Zionism. Our torah is not in conflict with Zionism according to many. However it is in conflict with secularism. And so being opposed to the current state of Israel because its secular is pretty much the viewpoint of all frum jews. How to deal with that is the big question. And should we try to find a frum path or charedi path that shields us within the system (even in the army) so we aren’t influenced? Those are fair debates within the debate of secularism.
@Avram in MD
Sorry but I need a smart phone and computer. Its 2024 and we just have needs. I work and have other reasons.
Re “And these people are not going to be convinced to shlep over to TAG to make their $1000 iPhone less convenient whether or not you waive the $60 filtering fee. ” yes they will and I am one of those people. People just don’t like paying for things. Just like i know people driving around in $800 a month leased cars kvetching about high eggs prices. Furthermore, its a feeling and resentment people get that TAG and others are just out for the money. I happen to not think that. I think they mean well. But I still ressent that they charge. Its just not what someone promoting filters should be doing. It makes me look down on them. People like freebies. If you want people to listten don;t charge.
Side note, there are people like me that buy cheap devices too. (used iphones or cheaper smart phones and other devices). Filters end of costing more than the device. I also don’t apprecaite that its $20 to block texts on my flip phone. Stop nicling and dimming. Its very off put.There are tons of sefarim. Read the rziyna sefarim. And torah works isn;t the deciding factor. Actions are. Facts are they openly said they support zionsim and freed tish on yom hatzmot. (Same with punvitch). If I listed sefarim you’d mach that avek too. But there are plenty . you just refuse to look at them,
Here is one published sefer which I gurantee you will mach avek like you always do because you are one sided.Rabbi Yaakov Friedman, the third Husiatyn Rebbe and a great-grandson of Rabbi Yisrael of Ruzhin, was a passionate Religious Zionist. He actively supported the Mizrachi movement and moved with his family to Israel in 1937. Many of his sermons in support of Religious Zionism, delivered between 1937 and 1956 in Tel Aviv, are collected in his sefer “Ohalei Yaakov.”
There are mnay more sefarim but you can’t deny actions either. Its not just about whats written. its how people acted. facts are a reba fered tish yom hatzmt. Facts are punvithca rav had all these kneset members by his ground breaking. facts are R Shraga feivel made a bracha for the medina. Facts are R Wolfson ZL said the 6 day war was a nes. i heard it from the tzadiiks mouth. You have excuses galore. Because you are a hothead where only one side is right. Its not a good midah. There are mnay ways to torah.
I think thats a bit misleading. Tag does have cetrain filters. And for those they don’t have they have very strong connections to companies that have those filters. its not like they have no shyachis. They send all their clients there and there is overlap. Its not completely independent even tough on the books it is.
To your other point about what TAG is. The point of TAG is to promote filters and ensure people use smart phones and other technology “smartly” and ehrlich. If they can’t offer free filters then they are a wasted organziation . Its the basic elementray idea of technology awareness. In todays modern times when there is so much money fundrasied for everything, TAG needs to expand and do the same. This game of promoting awareness but not prviding the full service is just disingenous. and white washing. Get your act together and fundraise more. (BMG raises KYA like $80M a year for aderi torah. A wonderful cause. BH there is alot of money out there)
Side note, I am not convinced that if you offered the servivce but highly encouraged people to pay the $20 a month for the cost that most wouldn’t do that. You’d only need to increase your budget by a little bit. Furthermore, me and others would donate more when you do fundraise because the cause now makes more sense than “just pormoting awareness”. I speak not just for myself but the tone in the street.
@somejewiknow;
Furthermore on top of Rizyn,We know R isser Zalman supported the medina. His son took over Hesder after R kook Zl R tzvi pesach Frank as well as the tzitz elizer.
R Shraga Feviel mendlovithc made a bracha when the state was foudned. As per an eyewitness. yes Stamar reba was upset at that but he made that bracha.
First year of the statehood Punvitcha rav said hallel yom hatzmut. And they still raise the flag every year. in the groundbreaking cermeony in 1952 where the chazon ish attended many leadig kennest member’s were present. In fact there wre patchkavialln all ove rmeah sheraim against him. for that. Yes you can wash this all up and say hey the punitcha rav was just a politician. But if its all total kefira why go to such an extent like he did? I don’t think it would have been Ok for him to invite leading kofrim like reform rabbis. So why is zionsits different?
I heard from R Moshe wolfson ZL that 1948 was an eis rotozn for moshiach. nebach we weren’t zochah so instead we got “shiveri kelim” the medina. He also gave us a whole shuir how in 1967 the six day war was a miracle. Again very much not in the spirt of zionsim as kefira.
There are tons of pro zionsit sefraim out there too. Again don’t conflate zionsim with secularism. Zionisim has strong fondations in our torah. Secular zionsim has no place
@somejewiknow;
The Avir Yakov fered tish on tom hatmzut as per eyewitness testimony.
The Shtefenshta Reba (Rebbe of skulen and Ribnitz) has a picture of Herzel in his study and was open about zionsim.
Bohusha Rebbe was part of the mizrachi movement and openly supported them.
The other sadiguyra rebbes were openly supportive of the medina as well..This is all well known if you don’t live in a cave. There are also plenty of pro zionsim sefarim too. No its not kefira unless you are narrow minded.
@somejewiknow
There are tons of sefarim that are pro Zionism. You just don’t read it . Bpashtis the whole chovevi Zion movement was that. Again don’t confuse Zionism with secularism . In most of the anti R Kook and Chazon ish it’s about secularism. That’s different than opposition. To Zionism.I’ll repeat it again and keep it simple. Make believe I am a rizyna chusid . Is that anti Torah ? Yes or no? Just answer that question.
At the end of the day TAG thinks they are like a hashgacha that we all accept we pay for. But the population isn’t sold on that yet. They can take the high road and convince themselves. Or they can wake up and realize that if you want people to listen to the Rav don’t charge . Strongly suggest a donation and most will give. You’ll also be more accepted as a tzedaka when you fundraise if filters are free. There is so much money for everything under the sun. Sweat a little more, raise a little more money and give out free filters so it’s truly a tzedaka
@somejewiknow:
The Imeri emes never said its kefira. he said it comes from to much of love for other jews and its wrong. Kefira is a strong word.
The fact that many gedolim held R Kook in high esteem even when disagreeing with him in principal proves its not kefira.Now to your other point which is a complete total lie that you made up. Yes its a satmar idea that the torah rejects zionism. Most Aguda gedolim including the imeri emes held of zionism and yes published ideas about it. The objection was mostly against SECURLAISM. You keep on confusing the two things and just repeat the same untruths. Let me be cllear:
1) Zionism: is the idea that jews should have a state in israel before moshiach. Not one word of oppostion of that idea from many mnay leading gedolim.
2) Secularism: The idea that the state will be secular and our torah CVS will be diminished. Almost all rabbonim excpet R Kook ZL held we most vehemently oppose that. Its a different fight. Secularism is indeed a clear conflict with our torah.Now to the gedolim that held of zionsim. Lets start with almost all Rizyhna rebas. Are they all kofrim? (I’ll move in to others after). Lets say I am rizyna. Am I kofer now?
@DaasYochid .
Sorry but you can’t compare TAG to yeshivas and shuls. Its a poor analogy for many reasons. For starters, whether you like it or not people aren’t yet convinced that you need filters. And by charging them you won’t get them to do it. Secondly, in fact most shuls and yeshivas indeed have a system where people who totally ca’t afford it get off easy or a discounted price. Why can’t TAG offer that? Its not like food because selling food isn’t charity. You are charity . Selloing food isn’t inhernetly a holy thing promoting judaism. And in fact there are a ton of frum organztaions offering free or hevaily discountede food to those that can’t afford it. Again TAG should do the same. Bottom line, yes many relaize that its a given like the pirce of a hashgacha that we all pay for. But there are more than you think who don’t see filters as a must yet. They see it as an extra thng that’s nice to do if easy. You may disagree with that mindset. But that’s how they see it. And if you want them to “eat kosher” via filters and you are a tzadka stop charging. You also collect money for this mosad. What else should it be for other than free or cheaper filters?
@yechiell
1) The American Recovery Act, increased our deficit by $1.9T and resulted in Inlfation. Our dirt responders would not have been laid off widescale to justify that. There was tons of waste and abuse in ?that spending too. (To be fair, Trump is just as guilty if not more for Inflation but it doesn’t give Biden a Hail pass)
2) Bipartisan Infrastructure Act: Please point me to significnat roads that were really rebuilt. I want to see these ew big projects. And at what cost? It costs billions just to repave a road The govt is full of waste and these things are pure nonsense flushing money down to the toilet. Gone are the days when visionaries like Robert Moses, actually built highways and bridges. That’s long gone. These “infrastructure” bills are loaded with garbage.
3)The Inflation Reduction Act: That did not cut inflation. Again baloney. You know what brought inflation down? The feds increasing rates. Once again Trump is nuts for criticizing the feds and has inkling about Finance and the economy. BH Powell’s soft landing learning from Volcker did it. But Biden did nothing.
4) Climate change? You believe in that Hoax? Please prove that its man made or that more storms really arise from it. Yes we can prove the climate is warmer. But we have no clue why its warmer or that its really harmful. Those are all theories. Voddo Sceince. Now Ill concede that at the end of the day, storms do cause damage and its a good thing to protect homes from storm damage and to protect our water. But stop it with this climate change hoax.
5) pro union: so why did the unions turn on Biden?Let me finish by saying that yes overall biden wasn’t as bad as the world makes him. I think he was slow to adress inflation . The same with supply shortages where even when warned beforehand he ignored the science . (He was told that a heavy flu season would hit the USA in the winter of 2022 -23 yet we had medicne shortages all over). But Biden was OK and didn’t cause much harm either. i also respect and criticize him for Israel. I respect that he stood generally very strong with israel. But blame him for slowing them down in Gaza and giving credence to the Palestinian Humanitarian cause too much. That harms israel. I also give him credit for the Hezbollah ceasefire. Altough there again, he prevented Israel for months form doing what it wanted to do there. And the ceasefire is partly because Hezbollah is scared of trump after he won. This is why Hamas is back at the table too.
And so all considering Biden wasn’t bad but not great either. We owe him a thanks for the things he did do for us including Israel. But Trump seems to be far better when it comes to israel. Thats our #1 issue. (Re The economy I am not so sure Trump’s extremist ideas are great. But Biden wasn’t great either)
Thanks for reviving this post. Its been bothering me too. TAG is connected to filter companies. Call it a 3rd party or call it their own. At this point its one huge operation. If you want people to get filters why do you charge me per month to filter my computer Some of us just have 5 devices and can’t afford $100 a month for filters. And then we constantly switch devices, get new ones etc. I understand because it costs you money. But thats what your mosod is about. Its about promoting filters. You don’t do that by charging. Does Hatzalah charge for their services? Why can’t you install filters even with 3rd party vendors for free and say the suggested donation is $X (I don’t know say $20 a month). We ask that if you can donate to please do so. They’d recoup some of the losses that way. I mean TAG does fundraise. Yes this will increase your budget but it will also increase filters in klal yisroel. isn’t that your goal?
Also don’t take it for granted that everyone follows the rav and is deadset on filters. There are communities where its emphasized less. And even where its a strong point, you’ll be surprised how many people whitewash it. This isnt to minmiize its urgency. But its to say if you truly want people to obtian filters why make obstacles?
@HaKatan: I should say I read the Imeri emes letter and
1) he is only upset at R Kook for being “mischaber with Reshaim” who are ant torah. He doesn’t say one word against zionsim. And this dsicusion is about zionsim.
2) He is still very respectful and holds him in the highest esteem as seen in the letter. he says its because of his tremendous ahavas yisroel.Repeating my main point, lets call me a riztna chusid . Am I kofer because I don’t hold of Satmar?
@HaKatan: Its not “people” who were zionists. Irs gedolim that were zionsits. The “people” followed the gedolim. Who says Satmar Rav or Brisk was the only gadol. Should I relist the gedolim who supported zionsim. Lets start with all the rizyna rebas. If you’d like call me a rizyna chusid. Am i Kofer now? Yes or no?
Re R Elishyav : I told you already. You mix up two things. Zionism and secularism. His alleged issue with the WZO was because its secular and not just the torah. The fact that he worked for the state tells you he isn’t anti zionsim as long as its torahdik. (His work was in torah)
If its so easy to find these letters against R Kook then go find them. Are you shy? And like I said its doesn’t prove he dodn’t hold of R Kook in pricnpial. He didn’t hold of R Kook being so mushy with secular anti torah. Again the issue wasn’t zionism. I challnege you to walk in to Ger or R Shual Alter and ask them.
But lets circle back to my main point. Lets say I am a rizyna chusid. Am I kofer now for believing in my “reba” who held of zionsim ? yes or no will suffice. (Oh only Satmar & Brisk is correct and noone else matter)
The fact that R Moshe zl was good friends with R JB zl is the point I am making too. Its because R moshe may have disagreed with R JB but he still held that R JB’s views are not kefira. R Moshe wasn’t respectufl of Sol Liberman even though he was a goan too. And so I can’t believe that so many gedolim were “repsectful” of R kook yet held its kefira.. And if it sin’t kefira who says its wrong. Both are torah views.
From the way so many people were yonek from R Kook it would seem like it was more than just respect. I mean we know R isser zalman, the nazir, R elishayv , R shloma zalman seemed to be more than just respecting him. The Chafetz chaim also perosnally asked r Kook to review his work after his shver the adres was nifter. is that just respect?
Now I’ll conceed that with R Kook there was another issue. And this is where people mix things up. The issue is How much do you cooperate, tolerate etc “secularism”. The Zionists at the time were looking to uproot judisam (unlike those of today) in an extreme fashion. They wnate dveryone to be mamesh mechalal shabbos and secular. The kibbutzim were terrible etc. How much do you tolerate that. R Kook Zl was extreme in his ahavas yisroel and loved them too much. This is where Ger and other holy jews disagreed with R Kook. And so it wasn’t just public display. I was they held he was holy and right about zionsim . But they disagreed on this one issue.
That brings me to my key point which is what this post section is supposed to be about. There are two issues
1) Zionsim
2) Secularism
Many who opposed R Kook like perhaps Ger were because they were trying to fight secularism. However, the idea of zionism and taking back our land in a peaceful manner where we as jews run the govt and own the land, was alwatys a very popular outcry and many gedolim held of that. Now fast foward to the post medina era, where the IDF is here not to conquer more land but to protect us so we don’t get killed while preserving our land and keeping jews in charge of Israel. If we ignore the secular threat, many prior gedolim would have no issue with fighting to perseve the status quo. Zionism itself is a noble cause accodring to many. Now you’ll ask but what about the shamd and secualrism? Well lets see perhaps there is a way to create space where now in the IDF there is no shmad llike Hesder does. I can hear two sides on that too. But to repeat, its an issue about secualrism not zionsim who many many big gedolim held of@HaKatan
I have no clue how old you are but speak to wise people over 80 and ask them what it was like 60 years ago. How they felt about zionism? It was much more pro Israel in charedi circles.You can’t count what Satmar wrote because we agree on that. My argument is that he wasn’t the only gadol and bug gedolim disagreed. You also can’t count Brisk. We agree on that but many other disagreed. Same with the minchas eluzer.
Ger may have wrote certain sharp things in public letters. Altough I question that and would love for you to find me a link to that. However, facts are that overall, Ger was very pro zionsim and r kook. Ask any gera chusid. Again certain things were written against the ideo of coppearing with secularism but thats not zionism.
Re lubavtich yes them and belz were anti zionism. However, look at both today who changed views. So its not so clear cut.
You say people were “confused” about zionsim. That’s called revsinbg hisotry. When people don’t agree with your view they are “confused”. Oh I get it only your way is right.
Bototm line you fail to deny that all the rzyna rebas were pro zionsim. Why is that a nothing? R isser Zalman, the nazir, R Tzvi pesach frank, R shloma zalman and R elishyav etc all nothing? R Shraga feivel zl made a bracha when the medina was founded. (A fact I heard form eye witnesses). All is nothing. You keep on repeating the same few gedolim. OK You have a few big ones . But I also have a few big ones. Almost all rizyna rebas were pro zionists Should i repeat that again?)
This was a gathering about issues pertaining to Judaism. And R Kook was an issue. It wouldn’t be loshon hara if R kook wasn’t holy. Its also well known that he tried to make shalom between R Kook and R Y Chaim Sonnenfeld. The Adreres said that reason he neeve rmade it to EY was because had he made it there would have been shalom and moshiach would have come. And it wasn’t the time for moshiach. I heard this from a chshuva rav. That doesn’t sound like just being frum on L Hara. And R Kook helped the C chaim write his sefarim sof ymov too.
@HaKatan: Politcally powerful?? Thats white washing. Gedolim stood up to ben gurion Yimach shimo but couldn’t stand up to R Kook? Furthermore, R isser zalman meltzer, R frank, Tiitz elizer, the nazir, R elayshiv, R shloma zalamn all held of him. I know you’ll find excuses and answer each one. But gimme a break just admit that torah has many ways and both sides are holy. Re the chaftez chaim story wlaking out, sorry but there are more sources than just R Kook son. he walked out in front of 100’s of people. You can’t make that up. Sure R elchanon and the satmar reba were against him. Nobody denies that there are two sides. Both are holy.We also have all the holy rizyna rebas including the skulena and Ribnityza reba rebbe the shetfenshta who held of zionsim. The aver yakov fehred tsih on yom hatzmust. Go deny that.
Lastly, the majority of jews held of zionsim way back in Europe already. This is a known fact for anyone who doesn’t try to drei akup and revise hisotry to a narrow minded kannosihakit. Just to repeat again they rejected secularism. Henceforth were things get gray. is it zionsim or secularism that peop[le are against? As time evolved the issue becomes secularism.
@HaKatan
What you wrote about the chafetz chaim is just false. Your argument is because anyone who reads his work can see he said things that were blasphemous. Firstly that doesn’t prove the chafetz chaim didn’t hold of him. You completely made that up with no proof. I do have proof . There were 100’s of witnesses at the kensia where the chaftez chaim walked out of when a speaker bashmutzed R kook. Its very well documented and its FACT. We also know the R Kook helped the chafetz chaim write his seforim after his father-in-law teh aderes was nifter. Again a FACt.
Next re Ger. I can’t talk to a letter he signed. Firstly did you see the signature or its rumor? lets say its true. Noone is saying that he hold sof everything he did to the T. Overall theyt hold of him termendously. All you have to do is ask anyone in GER what they hold of R kook’s seforim and the man. He is till today a kodosh in ger. Go walk in and ask.Your problem is a you formulate a theory based on narrow minded view that only one way in torah is correct. And when you hear that maybe tzadkim held of him you mach it avek that only your way can be true. The revisionist hisotry of today is sad. The 1930’s -1950’s were very different than you envsion with a good chunk of leading gedolim pro zionsim. (No I am not narrow minded. Yes the holy satmar reba and brisker rav plus many yerushlami gedolim were against it. But others disagreed)
HaKatan
All the other gedolim did not condemn R Kook. This is revisionist fake news . The chafetz Chaim held of him , as did R isser zalman , R Frank , the Nazir, imeri emes, Rizyna Rebas , R Elishyav etc.I don’t think R kook zl would have held that if attacked you shouldn’t fight back . No one in Israel took things by force. That’s another made up thing.
Now I’ll concede, most gedolim wouldn’t hold of the IDF because of its secular nature. But not because of Zionist ideology. (Of course the Satmar Reba and many holy yerushalmi gedolim were against that too) But the question arises what if you could create a non secular branch that the seculars really don’t mix in or try to make less torahdik. Then it stays at the pure Zionist aspect. There many many big gedolim held of that in the past
@somejewiknow
Its a documented fact that tge Chafetz chaim held R Kook Zl in high esteem and walked out in front of hundreds of people when R Kook was bashhmutzed at a big convention. What’s not documented is the kook shmook line that he never said. R Kook evne helped the chaftez chaim write seforim after his shver the aderes was nifter. I told you that R Isser Zalman held of it as did R tzvi pesach Frank and many other gedolim. You live in a bubble who refuses to believe there are two sides. There are plnety of teshuvas pro fighting in the army but you’ll mach them avek saying they weren’t geolim and only your were. Its fake jusidam, You live in a shell of lies. The truth is both are holy views. And we all know R Aron Lieb Steinman was Ok with the army too. Till he got bullied he allowed nachal charedi. This is all balony.