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ROB: I find it very sad to see someone I shared a number of stimulating and respectful debates on various topics in Halacha spewing such hatred and vitriol against the Torah and those who learn it.
I have totally changed my impression of you, and do not feel I could carry on a conversation with you in the future.
Good bye!
Sorry Itche, I am in EY and have no access to the English Yated. I am not quoting anyone else, simply presenting the accurate facts.
Though I generally abhor addressing political debates, I feel the degree of propaganda and misinformation some people have swallowed forces me to set the record straight on a number of points:
4) The cost of integrating tens of thousands of unwilling and unmotivated Chareidim, especially if they delay their induction to 23 years old when most are married and building families will be extremely prohibitive. The military constantly complains that lack of funding prevents them from training and equipping themselves properly, if they must allocate millions or billions of shekel to accommodate unwilling and unneeded conscripts they will either bankrupt themselves or require massive infusion of funds. In the current economic reality, this extra cash would inevitably come at the expense of much more important projects.
great, i’m switching to chrome!!!
Google for “Olam HaTorah” or “Torah Index”. They list hundreds of institutions they have checked out. You can easily search thier site for say “American Friends”
mods: is this better than posting their link?
yitay: if you look at Shut Rabbi Akiva Eiger 207, I think he clearly concludes not like you are learning.
choppy: yerusha goes by ????? ????, pidyon follows ??? ???
Rabbi Eli Gersten is the one who sent me the OU doc
this is already the third thread on this topic. See:
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/crisp-restaurant-under-cup-k-supervision
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/crisp-on-fulton-street-in-manhattan
DY: I can’t speak for B&H. I suspect they were advised or received a Psak to be more Machmir
I’ve written extensively on the topic in other places. Not long ago, it wasn’t a problem to sell through Amazon etc, even if the sale took place on Shabbos. There is no issue of Melacha, since you are not doing anything, and at least in Chutz l’Aretz it can be assumed the buyer is not Jewish. Nevertheless, there remains the problem of deriving benefit from a transaction conducted on Shabbos. However, since then all of the merchants utilized typical credit card processors, who only process charges 5 days a week, no transfer of funds was ever conducted on Shabbos (though a weekday Yom Tov would be problematic).
Today, most merchants use PayPay or another electronic processor, and even the traditional ones have to compete. This means that an approved merchant receives the funds in his bank account within hours, if not minutes, of the sale. This is not permitted.
While it might theoretically be possible to avoid becoming an “approved” merchant and retain a delay of a couple of days between the transaction and the transfer of funds, it is not practical. Furthermore, Amazon will not allow a merchant to close his store one day every week. If one has minimal volume, he could instruct his program to record all Shabbos orders for manual processing on Sunday, but this is not feasible with a large seller. If one could only use a processor who does not transfer funds on Shabbos there would be a Heter.
The Star-K website used to have a Teshuva from Rav Heinemann permitting ecommerce sites on Shabbos based on 5 day/week processors; when I pointed out to him that this is an achronism, they immediately removed the article from their site.
Sam: the “minhag” is to be meikil for the second half of the Rema, ???? ????? ??????
oomis: “Christianity per se is not A”Z. Catholicism, might be, as they worship a trinity”
that is largely a misconception. Most Protestants are also Triniatrian.
one of the most inspirational stories I have heard about talking during davening. Maybe it was too long for the CR, so here is a link
http://www.ou.org/torah/article/the_heavenly_call
I was concerned about copyright violation
ItcheSrulik: As mentioned above, there isn’t any reliable way of determining their Kashrus.
why isn’t my post going up?
ItcheSrulik: 1) Agreed it doesn’t necessarily mean the Sofer wasn’t acceptable, but it also means we have no presumption that he was either. Consequently, no Chezkas Kashrus.
2) Is pure speculation. Furthermore, even if it was checked, I am not aware of any inspection that can determine if the scribe was Jewish, Shomer Shabbos and Lishma.
If it originated from a non-religious relative it has NO Chezkas Kashrus. It should not be worn and no Beracha may be said. There are no lack of Passul Tefillin on the market and no Rov Kesheiros
If the Gemara in at least two places, Reb Moshe, Rav Vozner and Rav Elyashiv (among others) all refer to taking intangible items as “Gezel”, I have no hesitation doing so as well. What ever they mean by “Gezel” is what I mean too.
There are grounds to say that true Gezel requires a Kinyan and excludes intangible objects, see Rabbeinu Manoach on Rambam Shofar 1:3 that one is Yotzei hearing Tekiyos from a stolen Shofar because the intangible sound cannot be Gezel.
From the continuation of his words and from Siman 212 it is obvious that air is classified as an intangible asset, as the Rema continues that the seller is incapable of selling this retained air to another, as intangible assets cannot be transacted alone; neither inherited nor sold. However, in conjunction with physical property, such as the underlying land, even intangible air can be transacted.
re the Beis Yitzchok: Additionally, since his Teshuva exclusively concerned children printing the father’s work, and we demonstrated on the previous page that intangible property cannot be inherited, there would be no evidence that he holds that IP is not owned by the originator himself even had he issued a blanket Heter to copy (which he did not).
derszoger: I am still awaiting an accurate citation or quote of a Teshuva that explicitly denies ownership of IP, preferably including a Sevara.
derszoger: Ok, now we are finally getting down to a serious Halachic discussion, although lacking any explanation of a svara.
derszoger: Can you provide a quotation or citation from a shailos uteshuvos that clearly declares that an intangible object canNOT be owned, *and* explains the svara why an intangible item canNOT be a property?
derszoger: Who are you? Your profile shows up blank, and you clearly have been here long before you started using this SN.
derszoger: “I also think in many of the names you earlier rattled off, you were not faithful to their basis or reasoning”
Do you have any basis for accusing me of “unfaithfulness” or you merely wish it to be so?
“as he understood Rav Elyashev. It was not Rav Elyashev himself giving his position”
??? ?? ??????
derszoger: First you rudely demand I source my claim that Rav Elyashiv forbids copying music, then when I do so you ignore it and refuse to do the same for your claim to the contrary.
Do you have any credibility?
derszoger: Zeh nehne vzeh lo chaser is ASSUR, just not obligated to repay.
uneeq, you just proved my point.
derszoger: Zeh nehne vzeh lo chaser is ASSUR, just not obligated to repay.
derszoger: “Frankly, I am a bit shocked you implied Rav Leff and the other poskim are “conservative””
You misinterpret me, intentionally or otherwise. My intent was that by shopping around for a Rav who will condone your vices makes you akin to conservative.
derszoger: Frankly, I’d bet that if one really looks hard, he could find a “subset of contemporary poskim” to permit virtually anything. When people try to base Halacha on attempting to justify and validate their personal weaknesses, we have essentially adopted conservative judaism.
derszoger: “I can find you a whole list of poskim who hold cholov stam is treif. Are you going to stop advising people they can rely on Rav Moshe as a result?”
I don’t know what your old screen name was, but you seem to hold a grudge against me. If you carefully read what I wrote, I never “advised” anyone to rely on CS, I merely explained what Reb Moshe’s true intentions were.
derszoger: “being mlamed zchus ex post facto”
So now you admit that the only Heter is b’Dieved?
uneeq: I don’t see why you think that I don’t understand it. I just explained it to you.
derszoger: great, so you have Rabbi Leff and a Rabbi Shapiro against the whole list I cited.
I’m not saying that no one permits it, but would you want to rely on a Get that the vast majority of Poskim hold is Passul???
uneeq: I do not know if your first point is true that “If I was to change a music file in any way, by manipulating the bits that compose the song, I technically haven’t stolen anything. So simply by converting to MP3 format to store on iTunes I would be complying with copyright laws” nor am I convinced that it is relevant Hilchos Gezeila. Regardless, most people are copying music as-is, so your Limud Zechus is irrelevant.
Regarding your second point, Gezel is taking someone else’s property without permission. Even if the value of the theft is less thana Peruta, the Issur is still d’Oraisa. Anyways, it’s not my Chiddush. As I cited previously, Reb Moshe, Rav Elyashiv, Rav Vozner and Minchas Yitzchok all forbade copying tapes based on this logic. Your issue is with them, not with me.
jbaldy22: you’re welcome. After you look them up, let me know what you think.
shmoel: “hello99’s opinion is that would be assur due to “gezel””
There are two distinct points here. I am discussing an Issur Gezel, which obviously requires the victim to have had ownership. Hence, I am citing the numerous Poskim who rule that there is ownership of ideas. Once we accept that the accepted Halacha and vast majority of Poskim accept intellectual property, it is little different than the theft of any other possession. However, there are some slight differences, as I mentioned previously regarding inheritance. I cannot steal you object even if I would not have spent money to purchase it otherwise.
However, this argument is absolutely irrelevant to the prohibition of Gezel, and if there is Halachic ownership of intangible ideas, this Heter is totally spurious.
I hope this answers your well thought-out question.
derszoger: “A few days ago you said that the following day you’d post an “exact quote” of Rav Elyashev and you still haven’t posted it.”
Actually, I did. But if you missed it, I’m happy to repeat it.
“The wearing of the wedding ring is actually a goyish custom”
Actually, the Sefer HaChinuch writes that, while according to Halacha Kiddushin can be performed with any marginally valuable item, the custom is to utilize a ring. The reason he gives is that it serves as a “constant reminder” to her status.
While not a Psak Halacha, it does indicate that he considers it appropriate for a woman to ALWAYS wear her wedding ring! Certainly he does not see it as merely a “Goyishe custom”, and he was a Rishon.
shmoel: “And is Rav Y.S. Eliashev of comparable stature?”
Yes, but it seems he Assers it
Furthermore, once it has been reprinted numerous times without protest, it can be presumed that either the author had no intent to retain private ownership on the Sefer or his heir were Mafkir it.