Lenny1970

Abba S., if we go the divorce route, we’ll probably just splity everything 50/50; including future schooling for our last kid who is still in yeshiva high school. Thanks for the blessing.

Saha, gameplan is for counselor to convince my wife to stay in marriage for the right reasons and not to do what you’re implying… otherwise you’re correct on what the outcome wiil be.

Abba_S, you’re sayin even if I have a positive experience with my therapist and think others can benefit, i still shouldn’t share his name? Of course, if my experience is negative, I won’t disclose his name. Isn’t it better for the community to know of good therapists that are more easily accessible than a perfect therapist you can’t get hold of? And Lilmod, the sheila Rabbi we went to, who came highly recommended from our Rabbi, had your position on just giving the Get if that’s what she really wants. So given that I personally spoke to the therapist we’re about to see, and got a really good feeling from the discussions, I’m just going with him. Thanks.

Lilmod, negative. I haven’t tried Rav SB Cohen again. I so fully agree w/ the counselor we’re going to see that I have absolutely no interest in any other counselor. This guy had like kids screaming in the background; demanding to know why a Get was needed; not seein it; it all added up that I want to stick w/ this guy. Also, the only Rav who said i should get divorced said it was because it was easier than fighting it. Thanks.

On the therapists, I’m definitely settled on who I’m going to. Why? Because all the other therapists I was speaking to; who weren’t religious but were free thru my work’s Employee Assistance Program, said if the wife wants a divorce then that’s it. They’re not going to try & talke the other person out of their poositon whether warranted or not. Vs. my marriage counselor in Lakewood who said if he didn’t see a reason for the divorce, and one spouse wanted to keep the marriage going, he would definitely try bringing the divorcing spouse around. I won’t mention his name now. However, if he’s successful or at least gives it a good shot, I’ll mention his name along with a hearty endorsement.

Lilmod, how do you explain the super high divorce rate for second marriages?

Lilmod, u do realize our Rabbi (mine & my wifes) said he didn’t know what we should do. He told us to speak to the Lakewood Rabbi for a shaila. The shaila Rabbi was all about what’s easiest… just give her a Get if that’s what she wants. The shaila Rabbi said all the halachic grounds for denying the Get are irrelevant because I’ll just be miserable. You are correct that no Rebbeim are lining up & tellign me to hold off on the Get. But aside from the Shaila Rabbi, the Rebbeim aren’t exaclty lined up & urging me to give a Get either. My wife & I are meeting later this week w/ a $150/hr marriage therapist in Lakewood. The therapist is also a Rabbi & had a bunch of kids in the background. So he seems legite. G-d willing this counselor will provide sound guidance. (Rav Simcha Bunim Cohen never got back.) Thanks.

Lilmod, can you show me where it says “It’s definitely possible to make someone else happy. The halacha says so very clearly. A husband has an obligation to make his wife happy.” I don’t think it says that anywhere. Per jewishvirtuallibrary.orgl . . . making your spouse happy is not one of the marital obligations…. in fact, it’s absolutely impossible to make someone happy… but if i’m wrong, please point to your source

Lilmod, I misspoke… instead of “clarification” should have been “instructions” … going thru whitepages… for getting hold of Rabbi Cohen

Daas, the Jewish Press doesn’t say “a husband who refuses to give his wife a get deserves to be beaten up or thrown in jail.” You’re really coming close to going off the derech. Also, I’ve not been ordered by a Beis Din to give a Get. Thanks.

Josheph, i just located Rav Cohen in the phonebook today & may call him later today (thanks lilmod & Abba S). And Lilmod, thanks for the clarification.

Lilmod, thanks… so i searched on lakewood nj phonebook… then i found him in the phonebook that came up… thanks. And JM613, thank g-d, there’s no abuse goin on i’m aware of.

Abba S, looks like Rabbi Simcha Bunim Cohen works Khal Ateres Yeshaya… i’ll give a call tomorrow. Thanks.

Enough, can you or someone please recommend a good marriage counselor in NJ. The Rabbi in Lakewood who we went to for the Shaila gave us two names of people he knew. But he just “knew them” as opposed to sayin anything really positive about them. If anyone knows of a really good counselor at repairing relationships in NJ, please advise. Thanks.

Quick update . . . we met with a Rabbi from a Beis Din in Lakewood for a shaila. My question was whether my wife had grounds to have a Beis Din order me to give her a Get. The Rabbi confirmed certain things on these boards & contradicted other things. The Rabbi asked me over & over why I wanted to stay married to somone who wants to divorce me. I told him about how the posters on here quoted all these authoritative texts and Torah Scholars supporting my position that I had a right to stay married. He said forget all that. He was trying as hard as he could to get me to see the futility of staying married to someone who didn’t want me. I explained that my positon is that if we can get in front of a good marriage counselor, it’s possible my wife could have an epiphany and come around. My wife seemed irked & very surprised that he said a Beis Din wouldn’t order me to give a Get. I had to give a Get voluntarily. I was sent out of the room several times while my wife & the Rabbi went over her written list of grievances & discussed things. I have to believe her grievances were insufficient, e.g., physical abuse, cheating, etc… or the Rabbi would have said she had grounds. The Rabbi gave us the names of some marriage counselors in Lakewood. I gave a contribution to his shul. He wished us hatzlacha & that was it.

Thanks. You guys may be right about having to call it quits. But that’s my last option; not what I plan on doing at the moment. I’m calling next week for an appt w/ the Rabbi of the Beis Din for the shaila. I’m going to ask him these exact same questions & report back what he says. Thanks & shavuah tov.

AbbaS, trust me, she definitely wants a divorce & has wanted one for a long time. And Zaha, you’re correct about not saying bad things about the other spouse to the kids. Thanks.

Necho, u asked “Lenny, you never answered zahavasdad’s question about why you would want to be married to a person who does not want to be married to you.” This issue was addressed in the thread about getting a beis din’s preliminary ruling. Basically, it’s an age-old issue & been decided that the spouse who wants to stay in the marriage has every right to do so. In fact, Chabad & others actively encourage it. However, if there’s abuse or another halachic reason for the divorce, then the Beis Din orders the reluctant spouse to issue a Get. What I can’t figure out is if one of the spouses absolutely wants out, and the Beis Din says they can’t have out, what happens to the marriage going forward? Thanks.

Abba, u say “Eventually you will realize you have irreconcilable differences and you will grant her a get and move on with your life.” I hope someone with more knowledge on the subject comes back w/ another answer. What you’re basically saying is jewish divorce has gone no-fault. In my opinion, if there’s not a clear halachic reason for the divorce, the couple should work it out.

CTL, to Joseph’s point, you stated above, “The Beis Din asked both parties if they understood the Get process and wished one issued. Both parties answered yes and the Get was written and issued on the spot.” You’re saying even if there’s no hard-core reason for the divorce, e.g., abuse or cheating, the Beis Din just writes up the Get. To Joseph’s point, how do you reconcile the high bar there’s supposed to be for issuing a Get vs. how they seem to be issued? Thanks.

CTL, could you please comment on what happens, in your experience, when a couple gets to the beis din, and only one wants a Get & the other doesn’t want the Get. Assume there’s no hard-core reason for the divorce, e.g., abuse or cheating. Does the Beis Din just order the recalitrant party to agree to the Get? Thanks.

Joseph, you say “. . . a civil divorce is halachicly meaningless as to whether beis din is halachicly authorized and able to order a Get. . .” You may be right. Not sure. The Bais Horaah of Lakewood stated the same as you. But other posters were saying the beis din would just order and/or issue a Get if the couple showed up with a civil divorce. Hopefully, posters with first-hand knowledge can definitively say if this is true or not. Thanks.

CTLawyer, thanks again. In the process you explained, you’re saying the civil Court will always grant a civil divorce 100% of the time; as Connecticut has a no-fault divorce law. Even after mandatory counseling, as long as one spouse still wants a divorce, the divorce is granted. I understand that. I’m trying to find out what happens if the couple arrives at the beis din, even with a civil divorce, and one of the parties doesn’t agree to the divorce. Assume there’s no extortion or anything under-handed going on. Also assume there’s no halachic basis for the divorce, i.e., physical abuse. I thought the beis din set the bar a little higher than the civilian courts? or am I wrong? Thanks.