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You can’t compare the legitimate kingdom of Dovid HaMelech with the “band of thugs that descended there”, to quote the Brisker Rav.
Are you purposely ignoring the halacha in Shulchan Aruch that I quoted?
X’mas day as either a religious or secular holiday and a day off from work, it is newly found time for limud torah (versus playing chess or video games).
To the best of my knowledge, the minhag of playing chess etc. is specifically during the night (until chatzos), not xmas day (hence the name nittel nacht, not nittel tog)…
the Jews who did survive those wars – that’s due to the lomdei and shmorei Torah and not the Zionists.
If you mean that the Jews didn’t survive due to the Zionist SHITA – this may indeed be true.
If you mean that Jews didn’t survive due to Zionist PEOPLE – i.e. the soldiers – this is equivalent to saying that your family doesn’t survive due to your financial support.
The ruchnius of a war is fought by those sitting in yeshiva learning, and the physical war is won by the soldiers fighting with physical weapons.
אילמלא דוד לא עשה יואב מלחמה ואילמלא יואב לא עסק דוד בתורה
Were it not for David, [who studied Torah,] Joab would not have been able to wage war successfully, and were it not for [the military acumen] of Joab, David would not have been able to study Torah.
(סנהדרין מט,א)Going to war to protect Jewish cities (in Eretz Yisroel or in chutz laaretz) is a HALACHIC OBLIGATION even on Shabbos!
If it’s a border city, we must go to war on Shabbos even if the enemy just came to steal some STRAW!!! How much more so if they came to kill 1000﬩ r”l!שלחן ערוך אורח חיים סי’ שכט ס”ו-ז:
עכו”ם שצרו על עיירות ישראל אם באו על עסק ממון אין מחללין עליהם את השבת באו על עסק נפשות ואפי’ סתם יוצאים עליהם בכלי זיין ומחללים עליהם את השבת ובעיר הסמוכה לספר אפילו לא באו אלא על עסקי תבן וקש מחללין עליהם את השבת: הגה ואפילו לא באו עדיין אלא רוצים לבא [א”ז]: יש מי שאומר שבזמן הזה אפי’ באו על עסקי ממון מחללין שאם לא יניחנו ישראל לשלול ולבוז ממונו יהרגנו והוי עסקי נפשות [ומ”מ הכל לפי הענין] (פסקי מהרי”א סי’ ק”כ):
Regarding non-Jews who besiege Jewish cities: if they come for money, we do not desecrate the Shabbat [to protect ourselves], but if they came to kill or come with no presented reason, we go out with weapons and desecrate the Shabbat. In a city that is near the border, even if they just come for straw or hay, we desecrate the Shabbat. Rem”a: Even if they haven’t come but they want to come (Or Zarua). There is one who says that in our times, even if they come for money, we desecrate the Shabbat, because if we do not allow them to plunder the money, they will kill, and so it becomes a case of saving life. (In any event, everything is according to the situation(Piskei Mahara’i Chapter 156).)The Zionist “State” will be history, probably much sooner rather than later.
Amen, speedily, with the coming of the TRUE leader of Klal Yisroel – melech hamoshiach, followed by the TRUE kibbutz goliyos.Ubiquitin,
You hit the nail on the head!
I would add: Would you want to be used as a “Shabbos Goy”?”
sure, especially when it comes with a glass of whiskey and a slice of hallee bread for my french toast.Hmm… Why is the OP quoting a Rambam and possuk making people nervous?…
We should use this thread as an opportunity to thank Hashem for the opportunity to live in a country that allows all ethnic groups to live freely according to their cultures and religions, thus allowing us Jews to live as proud frum Yidden in USA without any persecution or government interference (for the most part).
In the early years of the American Jewish community, many Jews thought that it would be impossible to do this. We would have to assimilate ch”v and live like the goyim, keeping our Yiddishkeit to the bare minimum. Even if keeping basic halacha, we would have to speak and dress and live like the goyim around us ch”v.
Yet, Hashem has allowed us to prosper as an authentic Jewish community even in modern America.
As the Rebbe Rayatz proclaimed when he came to America (to the shock and disbelief of many of his modernized American supporters): “אמריקא איז נישט אנדערש”Menachem isn’t Chassidus sourced from a higher level than Kabbalah? Yechidah vs Sod?
Discussed in קונטרס ענינה של תורת החסידות
https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=58874&st=&pgnum=268&hilite=it a bunch of idiots who took it upon themself, and yes in your face never was a yiddisher middah, WE ARE IN GOLUS AND LETS BEHAVE THAT WAY
The Rebbe addresses your discomfort with the change in the derech here:
https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=16076&st=&pgnum=354try and emulate the chabadsker who were around in the 50s, 60s, and 70s, you have a lot to learn from them.
Mitzva tanks, rooftop menorahs and public menoras started in the 70s (with the Rebbe’s encouragement).
Tefillin in the streets was started (by the Rebbe) in the 60s.
Lag B’Omer parades were started in the 40s (by the Rebbe).
he wouldn’t advise six year olds to close their Gemaras and study Arizal.
Factual correction for readers who may think that there’s truth in what Qwerty is writing. Let’s break this down:
“study Arizal”
Chabad yeshivos don’t teach kabbalah (Arizal, Zohar, etc.).
They do teach chassidus (the teachings of the Baal Shem Tov, Baal HaTanya, etc.) – much of which is based on kabbalistic teachings, but taught in a way that is meant to be more understood for the common folk (with a proper teacher and background).“six year olds”
The average Chabad yeshiva begins teaching chassidus to bochurim who are about 15 years old or older. Before that, they only learn Gemara, Mishnayos, Chumash, halacha, etc.“close their Gemaras”
The average Chabad yeshiva (15 years old and up) has about six hours a day of Gemara and three hours of chassidus (as well as halacha, Chitas/Rambam, sichos, etc.)Let’s not get into this endless topic which has merited countless posts in the CR.
Make another thread for it.Is flag such a goyishe idea? Shvatim had flags.
Flags themselves are not the issue (at the Chabad Lag B’Omer parade, there was usually an American flag, Tzivos Hashem flag and Mesibos Shabbos flag).
The zionist flag however was made specifically as part of a general movement to create a secular brand of Judaism, the flag is part of the symbols that we can be ככל הגויים ch”v.Now we have a group of American Jews who want to tell Israel how it should be run.
It is the obligation of every Jew, especially a majorly influential Jew, to do everything in his or her power to ensure the spiritual safety and physical safety of the Jewish people anywhere in the world, especially in Eretz Yisroel which is every Jew’s homeland.
During times like these we need some kind of public display that’s a symbol . What would you suggest we use?
Authentic Jewish symbols which have been our symbols for thousands of years. מצוינים במצוות.
This week – a menorah.
Generally: Tefillin, Mezuza, Tzitzis, Shabbos candles, etc.Judaism is not the language we speak, the flag we wave, the land that we live in, or the falafel that we eat.
The more we wave the flag, the more we fool people that this secular, nationalistic, cultural nonsense makes them more Jewish.
The world must know that their Jewish identity is ONLY EXPRESSED through the tools that Hashem gave us to express our identity – Torah and mitzvos.
Those who use a flag say היינו ככל הגוים (ch”v); if the Americans, Italians, French, etc. express their identity through a flag and a culture, why can’t we?
The answer is that we are completely different than any nationality. We are not just another nation with nice rituals and cultures that hold us together, rather a nation chosen by Hashem to serve Him in the way that He decided. Only those mitzvos should be used to express what makes us special as a nation.
Just found a (English) letter from the Rebbe about this subject which I thought would be interesting.
Here’s an excerpt (you can find the whole thing on Chabad dot org):
“…Now, to come to the essential point. Why is it so important for Jews to have a Chanukah Menorah displayed publicly? The answer is that experience has shown that the Chanukah Menorah displayed publicly during the eight days of Chanukah, has been an inspiration to many, many Jews and evoked in them a spirit of identity with their Jewish people and the Jewish way of life. To many others it has brought a sense of pride in their Yiddeshkeit, and the realization that there is no reason, really, in this free country, to hide one’s Jewishness, as if it were contrary or inimical to American life and culture. On the contrary, it is fully in keeping with the American national slogan “e pluribus unum” and the fact that American culture has been enriched by the thriving ethnic cultures which contributed very much, each in its own way, to American life, both materially and spiritually.
Certainly, Jews are not in the proselytizing business. The Chanukah Menorah is not intended to, and can in no way, bring us converts to Judaism. But it can, and does, bring many Jews back to their Jewish roots. I personally know of scores of such Jewish returnees, and I have good reason to believe that in recent years, hundreds, even thousands, of Jews experience a kindling of their inner Jewish spark by the public kindling of the Chanukah Menorah in their particular city and in the nation’s capitol, etc., as publicized by the media.
In summary, Jews, either individually or communally, should not create the impression that they are ashamed to show their Jewishness, or they wish to gain their neighbors’ respect by covering up their Jewishness. Nor will this attitude insure their rights to which they are entitled, including the privilege of publicly lighting a Chanukah Menorah, a practice which has been sanctioned by the precedent and custom, as to become a tradition.
I also must point out that I do not think that a Jewish community can disregard its responsibility to other Jewish communities in regard to an issue of kind, which cannot remain localized, and must have its impact on other Jewish communities and community relations.
With esteem and blessing,
M. Schneerson
P.S. I trust you are aware of other instances involving Jewish practices in public, such as wearing a beard by Jewish servicemen in the U.S. military, wearing a Yarmulka in a court of law, etc., which Jews insisted upon, and won as their inalienable rights. Further information, if desired, may be obtained from the pertinent Jewish organizations, such as COLPA and others.
…It is difficult to imagine that after what had happened in Hitler Germany, some Jews will still entertain the idea that making themselves as inconspicuous as possible, concealing their Jewishness, they would gain favor with their gentile neighbors, whereas the opposite view is more widely recognized. Besides, antisemitism and prejudice require no outside causes. However, to expand on this topic here would be too much of a digression from our main subject.”
common, do you wear a yarmulke when you’re out in the street or do you cover it with a baseball cap (which is perfectly permissible halachically)?
Personally, I wear a yarmulke because I feel that the pros of showing off my Yiddishkeit and the inspiration that other Jews derive from this (I have been approached MANY times in the street by Jews who just see me walking with a yarmulka or hat and want to learn more about Judaism) outweigh the cons of the possible hate or anger that it may arouse.
Given the punchings and other attacks recently in neighborhoods like Flatbush and Golders Green, do you think the time has come for us to begin hiding our Jewish appearance in public?
Chaim,
I agree with most of what you wrote, but I would still disagree about the flag.
The very issue with the flag was that zionist nationalism was being seen as a replacement for authentic Judaism. Our flag is Torah and mitzvos, not some symbol of a secular government.The fact that it’s seen as a “more general symbol representing the jewish people” is exactly what the Rebbe was afraid of. We already have 613 flags of Judaism (“מצוינים במצות”), no need to add secular ones to the bunch.
Yesterday Menachem Shmei said
Qwerty, we already went through this topic at length in the past, no need to rehash it in this thread.
You claimed that I tried convincing you of something, and you haven’t been able to show me one post where I’ve done so. Don’t fall back on your classic rhetoric.
I’m still waiting for you to either find me a post where I tried convincing you, or retract what you said.
I only wrote this to demonstrate my integrity
Sorry Qwerty you failed to demonstrate this.
I didn’t try to convince you anything about the holiness of the Rebbe. I pointed out that you were misunderstanding sechel when you thought that he was retracting his opinion, and I pointed out that this must be a mainstream Chabad view since it is a quote from the Rebbe.
Here is my original post (brackets added now. Go back to the original for context):
“This is ridiculous. Sechel never denied about G-d enclothed in a body.
Why would you prove [that this is a mainstream Chabad view] from “eight senior rabbis” when Sechel himself just quoted it from the most senior Chabad rabbi of all – the Lubavitcher Rebbe!?
He denied your understanding of that statement, which is perfectly fine.”This does not constitute as “trying to convince me that the Rebbe is god clothed in human form” as you claimed.
If I believe that you don’t even understand what this statement means (as I’ve written many times) – then how would I try to convince you that it’s true!?
Sorry, try again. Waiting for a single post.
Dear Ujm, That is a great reason except for the minor details…
UJM’s reason happens to be brought down here:
https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=2604&st=&pgnum=95&hilite=Not sure who this is or how reliable he is, but just putting a source out there.
this is well before the advent of seforim
In the source it says that they were learning בעל פה.the Yivanim weren’t searching for them learning Torah privately; and they would have killed them simply because they weren’t hellinized
What’s your source?
Isn’t the simple pshat of להשכיחם מתורתך that the Greeks tried preventing Jews from learning Torah? As the Rambam writes, בְבַיִת שֵׁנִי כְּשֶׁמַּלְכֵי יָוָן גָּזְרוּ גְּזֵרוֹת עַל יִשְׂרָאֵל וּבִטְּלוּ דָּתָם וְלֹא הֵנִיחוּ אוֹתָם לַעֲסֹק בְּתוֹרָה וּבְמִצְוֹת – they didn’t allow them to learn Torah.
You might want to check out your thread(question of an ignorant). Ypu spent about a month trying to convince me that the Rebbe is god clothed in human form
Point out ONE POST where I try convincing you of this, and I will leave YWNCR for good.
Please fix the “” at the end of the first line of my post here:
Thanks so much!
because most poskim disagree
Since when is halacha a number game, where if you find 8 names with one opinion and 5 names with a different opinion so you are forbidden from following the 5?
Do all sfardim have to follow ashkenazi halacha because there are more ashkenazi poskim (or vise versa)?
Do you know how many variations there are in halacha between different poskim?
Do you think that in every question, we must compile a list of how many rabbonim say what, and then follow majority? Or does this only apply to issues that involve Lubavitch?My rov, and most Chabad rabbanim, paskened like the poskim who encourage making a brocha, so why in the world should there be an issue? Because you compiled a list with more names on the other side!?
Regarding the line, “All who expand on Sippur Yetzias Mitzrayim are praiseworthy.” Rav Dovid commented, “People talk about what’s important to them.” When we look at the Lubavichers in this and other sites do they ever mention Hashem?
אִם הָיָה קָטָן אוֹ טִפֵּשׁ אוֹמֵר לוֹ בְּנִי כֻּלָּנוּ הָיִינוּ עֲבָדִים כְּמוֹ שִׁפְחָה זוֹ אוֹ כְּמוֹ עֶבֶד זֶה בְּמִצְרַיִם וּבַלַּיְלָה הַזֶּה פָּדָה אוֹתָנוּ הַקָּדוֹשׁ בָּרוּךְ הוּא וַיּוֹצִיאֵנוּ לְחֵרוּת. וְאִם הָיָה הַבֵּן גָּדוֹל וְחָכָם מוֹדִיעוֹ מַה שֶּׁאֵרַע לָנוּ בְּמִצְרַיִם וְנִסִּים שֶׁנַּעֲשׂוּ לָנוּ עַל יְדֵי משֶׁה רַבֵּנוּ הַכֹּל לְפִי דַּעְתּוֹ שֶׁל בֵּן:
When telling the story of Yetzias Mitzrayim, the foolish child is told that only Hashem redeemed us because if you told him about Moshe he would start accusing you of Avoda Zara.
However, when talking to the wise child, only Moshe is mentioned, since the child is wise enough to understand that Moshe is just Hashem’s shliach (שלח נא ביד תשלח) to redeem the Yidden.
[Of course, this is דרך הצחות.
The Eibeshter is the center of my life and the life of anyone I know.
Thanks to chassidus, I and my fellow Lubavitchers possibly think more about Hashem every day than the average frum Jew, because in our yeshivos, in addition to learning Gemara (which is Torah, but rarely discusses the נותן התורה) we spend time learning parts of Torah that specifically teach about Hashem (chassidus). 😳-modQwerty’s false accusations are just another example of his baseless hate for groups of Yidden which he disguises in his claim of helping them “realize the folly of their ways.” If he actually cared about them, he wouldn’t need to come up with false accusations.
It also displays Qwerty’s lack of knowledge of how to check and search through a poster’s previous posts… Or maybe he doesn’t know that G-d with a hyphen refers to Hashem?]1) I’m afraid I find Rabbi Yair Hoffman’s article (to which the article you quote is a response) far more convincing.
In other words, you think that it’s forbidden for Lubavitchers to follow the psokim of Rav Binyomin Zilber, Rav Sholom Messas, and other tremendous poskim (including most Chabad rabbonim)? Why?
In EY where they day say that a great miracle was here it also adds up to Meshiach through the name Tzemach.
And the name Menachem – “Menachem shmei” 😌
The CR is a very diverse place where we debate many opposing views in Yiddishkeit.
This is not a great place to find practical direction.
Each one of us has the groups that we might think you should stay away from.
As a Lubavitcher, I think a wonderful way to get closer to Yiddishkeit is with Chabad (I know Rabbi Levin, he’s a great guy!)Practically, I think you should find a local orthodox Jew (or better, a rabbi) whom your family is already acquainted with, even a little bit (I’m sure there’s someone), and ask him to connect you with someone to move forward with.
Much hatzlacha,
it may be a bumpy journey, but stay strong and don’t give up!My answer to your question is that we survived 2130 years without it is proof enough that we dont need it.
Who survived? You and your small community of Jews who are still frum?
Are you really oblivious to the fact that there are hundreds of thousands (or millions) of Jews in America who wouldn’t know about Chanuka if not for the public Chanuka campaign?
Thanks to this campaign, these Jews not only know about it, but celebrate it with lighting menorah every night!
Do you know the effect that this can have on a Jewish household!?
Do you know how many hundreds of Jews in countries all over Europe and the US that I’ve lit menorah with in their homes thanks to the Chanuka publicity?
It is completely absurd to say that since so many Jews knew nothing about Judaism for so many years and NOTHING was done about it, therefore we should continue doing nothing about it!!!
Lighting the menorah anywhere other than a Jewish house or a Shul is simply a brochoh levatoloh
1) Is it really a brocha l’vatola?
2) No one makes a brocha on rooftop menoras. You’re bringing up a separate issue than the OP
On Thursday night, I was turning out of a parking lot, and two children came running toward my car waving.
Their mother told me that when they saw the menorah on top of my car, they began begging her for a menorah of their own, which she unfortunately didn’t have.
Boruch Hashem, we had a menorah, candles and Chanuka guide (and some donuts 🙂) with us in the car, which they happily accepted and promised to light every night of Chanuka.
The effect that lighting menorah for the next eight nights will have on this “secular” Jewish family, who possibly never celebrated Chanuka (or any other yomtov) properly before, is immeasurable.
I cannot fathom why common, avira, or gedol are perturbed by this.
Is it really because this wasn’t done in Poland and Hungary?
In the heim, did they use internet forums to publicize their opinions on Yiddishkeit?Again, I ask all those who are upset:
Do you believe that even if public menoras inspire many Jews in their Yiddishkeit, it still should not be done? If so, why?There is the famous בני יששכר where he explains that the four sides of the dreidel represent the four gentile kingdoms of golus. The point represents Klal Yisroel.
נגה”ש is gematriya משיח (as RebE pointed out).
When Moshiach comes, all the nations will recognize that their focal point and foundation is Klal Yisroel.He also says that there is special significance to a wooden dreidel (gotta go buy myself one!) since it’s connected to the posuk about Moshiach קח לך עץ אחד
(בני יששכר מאמרי חדשי כסלו טבת מאמר ב סוסכ”ה)I’ve also heard (not sure where this is written) that since on Chanuka the miracle was fully מלמעלה, completely beyond nature – we spin the dreidel from the top. Whereas by Purim the miracle was in a more natural way, מלמטה – so we spin the grager from the bottom.
my grandmothers public school class picture in Poland has the priest in the picture and lets go back a few centuries forced shmad
Exactly. In those years, there was government mandated Christianity and countering that carried many risks.
Nowadays, everything is decided based on popularity. This has nothing to do with religion. People decide their foods, clothing styles, political ideologies, etc. based on billboards, social media and public icons.
This is a terrible unfortunate thing, and it creates a vacuum for millions of Jews who are searching for something to connect to in all of those public icons. If we don’t give them Yiddishkeit, they will grab other things.
we are not in the business to compete with S.
You’re making as if this is a S. thing in order to make it sound more extreme, as if we’re trying to make Chanuka like another religion’s winter holiday.
It obviously has nothing to do.
Sukkah mobiles on Sukkos, Lag Baomer parades, etc.The culture of Big Macs on billboards did not exist in the heim, and also Jews were much more in touch with their traditions. The ones who left was due to ideological disenchantment.
Now, things are very different.Let me ask you: Do you feel that even if many Jews would get major chizuk from these icons and feel more in touch with their Yiddishkeit – we still shouldn’t do it since in the alte heim it wasn’t done?
unless Santa is a frum guy like the one in Atlanta
😆Jews these days need a tremendous boost of Geon Yaakov.
When the goyishe mindset became that everything you like and believe must be fully blasted in public, this causes a major challenge for millions of Jews who look around and see goyishkeit on full display, while Yiddishkeit is buried away in their grandfather’s attic.
To counter this, we need a full force proud display of Yiddishkeit to show loud and clear that Yiddishkeit is relevant and important today just as it was thousands of years ago.
See here (ס”ח-ט): https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=16076&st=&pgnum=354
the gedolim of yesteryear would have done it.
1) The challenges of today aren’t the same as those of yesteryear.
2) Did gedolim of Europe take to the streets and make mass protests against the government? If not, why is this allowed by the gedolim of today in Eretz Yisroel?
Qwerty,
I fully understand that Lubavichers will not be swayed from their beliefs, but why don’t you guys get into discussions that are nondenominationalכל הפוסל במומו פוסל
If you go through my replies, you will find me commenting on a wide variety of topics in many different threads.
Of course, a very big and noticeable portion of my comments are regarding Lubavitch, since I’m a Lubavitcher and I love Lubavitch.The question turns over to you, Qwerty:
EVERY SINGLE one of your posts since you joined the CR was in the three or four threads about Lubavitch. You have not posted ONE COMMENT in any other thread.Being that you aren’t Lubavitch, what’s the reason for this?…
In summary: I’m obsessed with defending a certain Jewish group because I’m in love with it, you’re obsessed with condemning and accusing a certain Jewish group because you………
Qwerty,
Do you intentionally spend so much time around Chabad (a Chabad shul, Chabad meals, etc.) in order to collect statements that you don’t like and put them online?
Qwerty, when you follow up your “innocent” question about the Holocaust with your classic “G-d in human” rhetoric, you make it clear that your entire goal is לקנטר, and you’re not actually interested in an answer.
I’ve learned from the months I’ve spent on this site, Lubavichers rarely answer any question
This is a good reason for me to not answer your question. After hundreds of posts that I’ve written to answer the silly arguments here, you still have the audacity to write this. What a disgrace.
Anyone can go back to previous threads and see how your questions were answered time and time again.
This reminds me of what the Rebbe once told Rabbi Tzvi Kahana by dollars (10 Sivan 5750):
ע”פ דין איז “מילתא דעבידא לאיגלויי – לא משקרי אינשי”. איז ידוע אין דערויף די שאלה וואס מ’האט געפרעגט בא א גדול אין דורות שלפני זה: היתכן, מ’זעט דאך אז “משקרי אינשי מילתא דעבידא לאיגלויי”? האט ער אויף דערויף געענטפערט: דער תירוץ אויף דערויף איז א פשוט’ער, ס’שטייט “לא משקרי אינשי” – זיי זיינען ניט בגדר פון “אינשי”! עכ”ל, והמבין יביןthe Rebbe believed that the Holocaust was a Gezerah and therefore it shouldn’t be discussed. The Friediker Rebbe, on the other hand, basically held like Rabbi Miller that the Holocaust was a punishment from Shamayim for the breakdown of European Jewry.
Again, as I mentioned in my previous post, nuance and context is very important.
Your quotes of the Rebbe and Frierdiker Rebbe are anything but that.Did the Rebbe ever say that the Holocaust “shouldn’t be discussed”?
Did the Frierdiker Rebbe ever say that “the Holocaust was a punishment from Shamayim for the breakdown of European Jewry”?Please provide the statements that you’re actually referring to, and then we can properly discuss it.
the expression pops up in indices and descriptions provided by editors, who assimilated in part into general community and lost sensitivity.
My point is that using the term “kiruv rechokim” is not any assimilation. It depends on context.
The publishers of the Rebbe’s seforim in Kehos can hardly be classified as assimilators.
I showed how even the Rebbe used it in a certain context.
Nuance is very important here. No one said the term is ossur, it is just disliked in certain contexts.I agree, I brought quotes from L Rebbe about that. But, to clarify the issue, maybe someone can find L Rebbe’s quotes where he used the word kiruv?
There are many. Here are some:
לקוטי שיחות חלק ט”ו ע’ 496 (“הדרך לקירוב הלבבות ליהדות ומצותי'”)
אגרות קודש חלק ח ע’ צז (“דורך קירוב קען מען אויפטאן מער ממה שע”י דיחוי וריחוק… לקרב את אחיו וב”ג תחי’ יותר לדרכי היהדות)It is necessary to point out that while there may be general dislike for the term קירוב רחוקים, this is not to say that it is completely taboo. The term does get used in Chabad circles in certain contexts (e.g. in the indexes in back of the the Rebbe’s seforim, you can usually find an entry called “קירוב רחוקים”).
As a matter of fact, I have actually found one place (I think it’s the only one) where the Rebbe himself writes a private response using the term קירוב רחוקים!
נלכה באורחותיו ע’ 220. וכ”ה בליקוט מענות קודש תש”מ ע’ 17:
“כיון שמוכרח קירוב רחוקים, ובמילא צ”ל הפעולה צעד אחר צעד”
However, in that context the Rebbe is specifically highlighting the idea that they are (meanwhile) רחוקים (he actually underlined the word) in the context of the manner of dealing with them.I remember a SCOTUS decision during his brief Presidency that stopped me from being forced to say Christian prayers in a public elementary school.
“Almighty God, we acknowledge our dependence on Thee, and we beg Thy blessings upon us, our parents, our teachers, and our country”
What exactly makes this Christian? The fact that it’s in English?
Sounds like a translation of Modeh Ani to me.
“I acknowledge before You, living and eternal King that You have returned my soul to me with mercy, great is Your faithfulness.”CTL, were there other prayers that they forced you to say in your school?
If they’re smart, they’ll inject them with subcutaneous tracking devices.
And if they’re even smarter, they won’t tell us about it.
Please answer the following questions, so we can evaluate your expertise in this area…
Then entire idea of the CR is for people to hash out their non-professional opinions on random matters that they know little about. No one is claiming that this is a military panel.
But what does that have to do with Zionism?
I just saw in an internal shlichus journal a photo title; shaliach X and a mekurav at a yechidus
The idea of kiruv in itself was never a no-no in Lubavitch.
Perhaps we named our work “shlichus” while the name “kiruv” is mainly used by other organizations, but you’ll ALWAYS find the term “to be mekarev a Yid” or “someone brought a mekurav” – going back all the years.There may be more of a dislike in Chabad for the term “kiruv rechokim” since we try not to label a Jew as rachok.
Hence, it WOULD be surprising if a Chabad magazine would say: “Shliach talking to rachok. Trying to be mekarev”
especially if they were arrested only for opposing the regime (as opposed to terrorism)
Many of those being released have attempted to kill Jews; they should have received the death sentence long ago.
JERUSALEM RESIDENTS BEWARE! Terrorists Who Attempted Murder May Be Released To Their Homes
By halacha, killing non-combatants is only allowed if Ha-Shem, or at least a Navi, or at least a Kohen Gadol with Urim ve-Tumim says its okay.
Source in Shulchan Aruch?
its the sicha of Purim תש״ט in the foot note at the end ״ער האט אונז געשיקט אין גלות און ער וועט אונז ארויסנעמען אליין גייט מען ניט״
Indeed, the Rebbe Rayatz expressed this often. (See his letter from ח’ מנ”א תש”ח (אג”ק חי”ג) – regarding “הכרזת הציונים מלכות ישראל”. Also י”ד אייר תש”ח (אג”ק ח”ט)….)
The Rebbe also spoke about this often, perhaps even sharper than the Rebbe Rayatz.
My point remains. No change in ideology. But there was a change in manner of vocalizing opposition.
P.S. The Rebbe once wrote to someone:
וכמה פעמים אמר כ”ק אדמו”ר (מהוריי”ץ) נ”ע גלוי, ובפעם האחרונה אמר זה בשנת תש”ט-תש”י, שאף שיסד כפר חב”ד בארץ הקודש ת”ו, אבל אין כל שינוי בהשקפת ליובאוויטש על הענין דארץ הקודש ת”ו ואביזרייהוMenachem,
are you also as strict regarding movement members who sign another “infamous nigunim” of maschihistim or you are more understanding about that?I was wondering how long it would take for a thread on Chabad’s attitude to Zionism to become a thread about the Rebbe being Moshiach… Only 15 posts in!… 😏
5783: look at שיחת אחרון של פסח תש״ט to see what was the שיטה of the Rayatz towards the state of Israel in his later years
I’m sorry, I couldn’t find anything in the source that you gave, please be more specific.
P.S. I would like to clarify again that by “change” – I’m referring specifically to the MANNER of opposition, not ch”v a change in ideology.
The Rebbe Rashab (and Rayatz in his early years) fought strongly and publicly to prevent the actual establishment of the “state”.
However, once the state became more of a reality, the manner of public opposition changed by the Rebbe Rayatz and the Rebbe, despite the fact that they continued reject the zionist ideology (as can be found in their sichos).
Lostspark:
Great question!
My response as a Lubavitcher:
Since the “founding” of the “state” in 1948, Lubavitch has become less VOCAL about their opposition to Zionism, the reasons for which are discussed in the sefer mentioned by sechel, and other places.
(This change was already brought about by the Rebbe Rayatz. As a matter of fact, the Rebbe was much more vocal about anti-zionism than his father-in-law was in his later years).Due to this, unfortunately, there are Lubavitchers nowadays who are ignorant of our shita on zionism and may confuse strongly supporting Eretz Yisroel with promoting zionist symbols r”l.
The Rebbe was adamantly opposed to the hanging of the flag, singing hatikva, celebrating yom haatzmaut, and even referring to Eretz Yisroel as “state of Israel.”
The Rebbe stripped his נשיאות from Tomchei Tmimim (the central Chabad yeshiva) in 5715 when they allowed a balebos to sing “הניגון הידוע” (the Rebbe wouldn’t even refer to it by name) at a dinner.
On a separate occasion, the Rebbe wrote that singing this can interrupt Hashem’s brochos to the institution.The Rebbe railed against the concept of אתחלתא דגאולה in no uncertain terms, even saying that this idea has brought much darkness and hardships to klal Yisroel (I won’t get into specifics due to the public nature of this site).
At the Lag B’omer parades, children would march with American flag and Tzivos Hashem flag, but the zionist flag was not allowed.
B”H, most Lubavitchers and shluchim know this info, and keep a proper balance between supporting the Yidden in Eretz Yisroel while rejecting the zionist ideology and symbols.
Unfortunately, there are indeed some who are either uneducated on the subject, or were unable to withstand the נסיון of appealing to the wider Jewish public and have allowed such symbols and ideologies to infiltrate their Chabad Houses, etc.
These are B”H not many (though they may be vocal), and I and others have done our best to reach out to these people and influence them to correct their ways.
It’s also important to note that some may call themselves Lubavitchers while being totally rejected by Lubavitch. Figures such as Shmuley Boteach who has been banned by Chabad rabbis and doesn’t represent us whatsoever.
In conclusion: No, Chabad is not zionist. Our IDEOLOGY has not changed one iota from the times of the Rebbe Rashab (as opposed to the manner of vocalizing our ideology).
P.S. Joining IDF is a completely separate issue that has nothing to do with zionism. However, I would still venture to say that it’s still the same type of bochurim that you described (though I wouldn’t describe them that way) who join, because for the most part, the way for yeshiva bochurim to protect Eretz Yisroel is solely through limmud hatorah.
Re magen davids: While there are issues with the symbol, it’s in no way comparable to the zionist flag.
I strongly agree with Marxist.
Avira, the problem isn’t (necessarily) with “politicizing a tragedy” – rather doing so during this time of war. Same goes for all those who are looking for government officials to blame. All of this can wait.
Resigning in a time of war would be a cowardly and dangerous move.
Let’s wait till the dust settles to start pointing fingers.
It seems pretty clear what the results will be; anything else is wishful thinking.
Biden and Trump are WAY ahead of any other nominee, so they will probably run against each other.
In the last four years, despite many people coming to dislike Biden, it seems that there was an increase of many more never-Trumpers, but not many more never-Bideners.Consequently, if Biden won last election, there isn’t much of a reason for him to lose this time.
If he stole last election, there isn’t much a a reason for him not to steal it this time.The best hope for Trump would be a third party. While they wouldn’t win presidentship, it could take many votes away from Biden, paving the way for Trump.
Something to think about is what will happen if (when?) Trump loses the election.
Is it possible that he would incite something terrible? Even without much incitement from his part, we saw January 6. Trump had to remain (somewhat) diplomatic since (a) he still had a chance to win 2024, and (b) he wanted to stay out of jail.This election, Trump (probably) has neither of these incentives, and it’s possible that in his self-centered rage (which is definitely not foreign to Trump’s character, whether you hate him or love him) he could incite something never seen before.
He has enough supporters who would go through fire and water for him even if he would “stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody.”
Could we possibly see something similar to the BLM riots, but this time by people who own (lots of) guns?
I just pray that he won’t direct any anger at the “Jewish traitors” that he often complains about… We know who usually suffers first from political unrest, may Hashem protect us…
These are just my thoughts. I wonder what others have to say about this
I must say that I like 741’s point