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Lashon Hara is negative TRUE speech. Therefore, whether or not evrything that was posted is true ro not it is ASSUR. And now each person who posted any negative comment about ANY Jewish community MUST ask mechila fro EVERY member of those communities- which is nearly impossibble- I wish you all much Hatzlocha! And next timeif you really have a question as such pr would liket o fixe the Jewish spiritual problems speak to your local Orthodox Rabbi for advice and guidance rather than this forum, as everyone has access to such a thread and it just leads to more aveiros and Kitrug from Shamayim. Do we really want more suffering and pnishment to come down to our friends and family because of this Lashion Hara and added prosecution this thread is bringing?
Yes, in fact I did. Unfortunately, I am not on the level where I don’t have to press the ‘submit’ button. However, I am currently working on my Emunah and Bitachon, thank you for being the shaliach to remind me again. It should serve as a zchus for you.
DaasYochid: “Of course, but do you really think asking the people peddling the alternative garbage will listen if you ask them nicely to stop?”
“Divrei Chachamim Bnachas Nishmaim”
Also, as far as your Pikuach Nefesh Doche Lashon Hara…. Check with your Rav to make sure that this situation does warrant these types of responses.
DaasYachid: (I was not trying to push any agenda with regard to the vaccine fight) That may be true, however if you can obtain your same goals through speaking Lashon Hara and not speaking Lashon Hara, then without the Lashon Hara is forsure the better option. Also, I am NOT in any way measuring anyones level of Emunah, I leave that up to Hashem, He does not need my help. However, hishtadlus is to be done on a very personal level with Daas Torah. Therefore, for those who are pro vaccines that is what they believe their Hishtadlus is and they are following their Daas Torah. For those who are anti the vaccines, they believe that giving the vaccines are not included in their hishtadlus, nothing to do with level of emunah but rather different ways of viewing the situation.
And what every single person, no matter which thought opinion or idea he follows must recognize that ultimately it is the Ratzon Hashem that will come out. For an anti vaxxer to believe that by not giving he vaccines their child will be 100% protected from autism is also a lack of Emunah and a belief of Kochi Veotzem yadi, and for a pro vaccinator to believe that it is the vaccine that is protecting him is also a lack of emunah.
Honestly, I think that Klal Yisroel in general has this Emunah aspect that WE need to work on, especially in these most trying times in every aspect of our lives, aside from this vaccine fight.
I would like to mention a few points that I think everyone should read before continuing to post on this thread.
1) It is childish and Asur to be calling people names and to post derogatory comments in general and even more so on such a public forum. There is a Pasuk in the torah which says “Lo seleich Rachil beamecha” which is the source for the Issur of Lashon Hara. The Chofetz Chaim enumerates all of the various Halachos which are included in the Issur, and I strongly advise that everyone gets a copy and learns it ASAP. Also, in the Halachos for 9 Kislev, The Chofetz Chaim writes how these halachos do not apply to a malshin, as he removed himself from the category of amisecha, he describes a malshin as someone who purposefully goes to a non Jew (in this case to the secular government) and tells on fellow Jews. ( As someone proudly videoed he plans on doing to those who practice alternative medicine)He says that such a person is considered in the same category as a Kofer and an Apikores….
Therefore, I highly suggest that each and every one of you think 3 times before you post a comment and make sure it is permissible.
2) Hashem with His infinite wisdom created humans with the ability to do in this world, an example would be the advancement of science and medicine. People are constantly researching and coming up with data to further progress and advance. Hashem gave us the opportunity to use our minds and faculties, yet with a caveat, we must remember Hashem is the one Who is really in charge.
Rav Hirsh in his sefer “Horeb” explains the Mitzvos practically-how they manifest in our everyday life. Mitzvah number 3 is Avoda Zarah/Shituf. Rav Hirsh on page 6, paragraph 8 (in the English translated edition) explains the hashkafic aspect of avoda zara as follows, “Beware, then, lest you take any creature and, instead of subordinating it to God, place it by the side of God as a deity, or, worse still, as your god.” We have to take care to remember that it is Hashem Who is in charge and it is Hashem who makes us sick and Who heals.
Yes, the vaccinations according to many Gedolim are ok to give and even necessary to give as a part of the necessary hishtadlus. However, we must remember that the outcome has nothing to do with the Hishtadlus we did. We must daven to Hashem and have faith in Him alone to protect us against the diseases, not in the vaccinations. And for those who are immunocompromised and can’t take the vaccinations, obviously that is not the necessary hishtadlus for them and they have to daven . For those who do not vaccinate, there are Gedolim who say taking a vaccination is Assur al pi Halacha and does not constitute hishtadlus but rather borders the terrible belief of “Kochi Viotzem Yadi”. Therefore, now that everyone is doing their necessary hishtadlus we must daven that Hashem protect us all, not just from the measles, but from anti Semitic massacres as well as car accidents, and all else. We must remember WE DO NOT CONTROL THE WORLD. HASHEM IS THE GOD AND HE AND ONLY HE HAS POWER. No it is not the doctors who know the best, nor the pharmaceutical companys, not the alternate medicine practicers. Therefore, when there was a measles outbreak we should get together for a yom tefilla to storm the shamayim o protect us not force mass vaccinations on everyone, perhaps Hashem is trying to send us the message that we are not in control and all we have to do is accept it and apply it to our lives, and hopefully then we won’t need any other messages through scary means.
(I am a Limudei Kodesh teacher, and attempt to impart Emunah into my lessons to hopefully penetrate and prevent the secular world from taking away all the Emunah, yet now with all this hype of the vaccines causing the protection and the antivaxxers causing death and illness, coming from the student’s schools and homes, how I ask you can I hope to impact them with these Ikrei Emunah if everyone else whom they respect is sending the opposite messages?!?!)