Dear Editor,
I heard a story this past Shabbos and I found it very interesting, and inspiring.
My husband came home from shul on Shabbos morning and seem preoccupied. He told me the following story:
There is an old man in shul, Mr. G. Mr. G has been in the shul for nearly 50 years. He is retired now, and is the first one to unlock the doors and the morning, and the last one out after ma’ariv. On Shabbos he makes the coffee and sets out cake for the daf after the hashkomo minyan, and before yom tov dusts the shelves and sets out the machzorim. Mr. G has outlasted four rovs of the shul, and is a walking encyclopedia of minhagim (the shul has Litveshe roots but with some Chasidishe minhagim based on the founders’ home towns in Europe). He can be seen in the shul at any hour of the day, saying Tehillim or learning mishnayos, or reviewing the sedrah “just in case” the ba’al koreh is sick.
The shul has a new rov who came to the kitchen a few Shabbosim ago and asked Mr. G to modify the way he makes the instant coffee on Shabbos. We have had a daf shiur for 30 years; Mr. G explained the to the rov that in three decades the way he handles the hot water and coffee has never been questioned. The rov explained that certainly there are dei’os that hold it is OK, but that he wants to abide by chumros that may be of a minority opinion, but ensure that anyone can eat.
So, last Shabbos in shul, Mr. G began making coffee the new way. A younger man who assists Mr. G wrinkled his nose and shrugged, and made a comment to the effect that a new young rabbi ought not change the way things are done. And this is the inspiring part:
Mr. G stopped and looked at the young man (my husband saw this) and said, “Dovid, I have been making coffee at this shul for 40 years, and 30 years every Shabbos for the daf. No one has ever questioned by abilities in a Shabbos kitchen, and meshulochim by the bus load have eaten in my house. But, the morah d’asra of the shul is the morah d’asra – we hired him to lead us. And if he tells me to switch the way I make coffee, then I change the way I make coffee. And if he asked me to make coffee while standing on one foot, well, then, I would do that, too. Because kavod ha’rov is kavod ha’rov, and a morah d’asra is a mora d’asra. And if at 85 years old I listen to a 30 year old rov, then I guess you can, too.”
My husband said the coffee last Shabbos was the best he’s ever had!
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38 Responses
If only all of us had the same kavod hatorah…. It would definitely put certain blogs out of business !!!
This is one of the most beautiful things that I have read!!
Brought a tear to my eye. Mr G should come to my shul. He could teach a number of ’30 year olds’ here a thing or two.
BEAUTIFUL!
IF ONLY THERE WERE MORE MR. G’s IN THE WORLD…
I agree with the moral of the story, i.e., “Because kavod ha’rov is kavod ha’rov, and a morah d’asra is a mora d’asra.” But is anyone bothered by the concept of incorporating minority opinions into everyday practice? My Rov says that not every “chumrah” is an “intelligent chumrah”. If that were the case, ein ledavor sof.
Hashem Yerachem….no more chumras were ruining the torah that hashem gave us!!!!
Mr G was Maarich Yamim – and should continue to be Maarich Yamim – as he is a truly Ehrliche Yid.
Mussar Haskel, a lesson for us all. We may disagree with the p’sak halacha of the rabbonim but we have to listen and show respect.
The story is mamesh beautiful!! The Rov answered in an appropriate fashion explaining that he would like to ensure that EVERYBODY could drink the coffee. I would just like to take a step back and wonder: what if the Rav had just said to Mr. G. ” because I hold of this chumra”. If Mr. G would have grumbled & groused, would we have said that he’s right or not?
This is truly a beautiful story.
But here is another one :
Rav Shimon Schwab SZ”L returned once from his yeshiva in the Lita to his home town in Germany. On the way he stopped to daven in a city. He did not like the way a certain Halocho was handled in that Shul.
After Davening he approached the Gabbai to tell him that this approach was against the “Remo”.
The Gabbai answered him : “Young man, I see that you know Shuchan Aruch. But you must realize, that the Minhogim in our Shul predate the Remo by many years.”
Is Mr. G really LIPA?
Thank you for such a powerful lesson. Forget about personal kovod – we’re on this world so temporarily – let’s remember THAT.
“So hab wir es immer gemacht!!!”
So why change now” (I’m being sarcastic!)
Many times we do things out of habit and never bother to study the halochos. No matter how old we are,we always have to study and correct our errors. If the new Rov was just adding a chumroh to ‘flex his muscles’,then I’d say,”don’t rock the boat”.But we older folks must learn to respect the younger talmid chochom who knows the halochos and is hired to strengthen our mitzvo observance. Many young men do not know that we use a shinui of first pouring the water into the cup and then adding the coffee (or tea,etc.)They also are unaware of what may or may not be added to the hot water.Just because they dress ‘frum’ and sit in kollel,does not guarantee they know the halochos. I’ve seen this at the minyan I sometimes attend. So,let’s all listen to our rov,or ,if not,why hire him?
mi k’amche yisroel
if i am not mistaken the chazon ish holds that if it is very hot then it doesn’t make a difference if it is a 3rd vessel. so if the rav wants to be concerned about the chazon ish’s opinion, that is his rule for the shul.
Mr G surely has a wonderful place in Oilom Habo waiting for him!
Does the “G” stand for “Gadlus?”
I think all of the people complaining about the Kol Korei regarding Lipa questioning the Gedolim who signed should take a lesson from this story.
This is a very nice story and I commend Mr. G. on his respect for his young Rav.
However, I sometimes get the feeling that if we compare Shtetl life and all it’s minhagim compared with today’s “updated” version of being frum we would be shocked.
Many of you would consider the “old way”, Modern Orthodox at best. I find that very disturbing…
#14 I think you might have missed the point by writing:
“If the new Rov was just adding a chumroh to ‘flex his muscles’,then I’d say,”don’t rock the boat”.But we older folks must learn to respect the younger talmid chochom who knows the halochos”
The point of the letter is that we have to follow the Morah D’asra period. (Even if what the Rov said was a crazy chumra! and even if he did do it to “flex his muscles.)
What a wonderful story. It is quite a picker-upper after reading anti-rav comments on the popular Lipa thread.
mitvah lefarsem!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Great story!! I think we all can learn from this that when a Rov says a Psak – listen.
#14 is missing the point. Of course, the Rav should be followed. However,the issue I have is the obsession with chumras. Somewhere along the way the equasion has become chumra=more frum. It is clear from the initial letter writer that there was nothing wrong with how Mr. G prepared the coffee. If an individual chosses to be machmir and rely upon a minority opinion, that is his choice and prerogative. But the key is, it was not the shul’s chumra. If I were a member of that shul, why should I be forced to adopt a minority-based chumra?
Very nice…………except for taking kovod harav off the deep end. Mr G said that ‘And if he asked me to make coffee while standing on one foot, well, then, I would do that, too. Because kavod ha’rov is kavod ha’rov, and a morah d’asra is a mora d’asra.’ I would hope that Mr G. used the xample of standing on one foot just as an exageration to emphasize a point and nothing more. If it was meant seriously,that is unfortunate. The Rov may be a talmid chacham and fine person, but I do not see any reason to supsect that he is a re-incarnation of a member of Sanhedrin, whose psak must be followed without questioning. Unfortunately, there is a tendency today to mix up leading and holding us by the hand, between true Gedolai Yisroel and fine Rabbonim. I am not sure where we draw the line, but a 30 yr old Rov ??? Also, the comment that ‘My husband said the coffee last Shabbos was the best he’s ever had’weakens the story instead of strengthening it.
What would have been if the coffee was lousy ? Does that show that he should not have listened ? Does the ‘fact’ that it was the best cofee(possibly thinking that, made it true) prove anything ?
#14 wrote “If the new Rov was just adding a chumroh to ‘flex his muscles’,then I’d say,”don’t rock the boat”.But we older folks must learn to respect the younger talmid chochom who knows the halochos”The rov explained that certainly there are dei’os that hold it is OK, but that he wants to abide by chumros that may be of a minority opinion, but ensure that anyone can eat.”
I absolutely agree that the Rav must be respected and followed. What I’m questioning is why the entire shul was required to follow a minority-based opinion adopted by some members of the shul. Everyone has the right to adopt a higher personal standard for themselves; that is what defines a chumra. If it was normative halacha, it wouldn’t be a chumra. Somehow, over the past 30 years, we have equated chumras with frumkeit. Kol Hacovod to someone adopting a chumra. However, chumras should not be imposed upon others.
wow! Touching!!!
שאל אביך ויגדך, זקיניך ויאמרו לך
Something is wrong in this story. How could a Rov have said that coffee made according to some valid shitta could not be drunk by others? It is a derabonnon of maaseh shabbos and as such would be permitted to be drunk by those who are themselves not meikel(See PMG and MSB)
The reason why it tasted better because it was taster’s choice, dark roast special edition.
maybe a wrinkle is, what sort of chumrah affects everyone, and what sort of chumrah is “beneath the radar” – i.e., if the coffee issue involved use of an additional kli for pouring purposes, then that is an element that is transparent to the guy who drinks the coffee in the blatt room, since it affects only the fellow making the coffee, who must pour twice – and if the intent is to enable everyone to have a cup of joe during shiur, then why not
if the chumrah is one that we would be matztriach the tzibur (say, a kehilla in a place where cholov yisrael is not readily available and someone one day says, “OK, cholov yisrael only from now on”) – well, maybe that should raise some eyebrows
ultimately it’s up to the kehilla who hires the guy – if a rov’s approach is not consistent with his kehilla, he’ll know –
Something is wrong in this story. How could a Rov have said that coffee made according to some valid shitta could not be drunk by others? It is a derabonnon of maaseh shabbos and as such would be permitted to be drunk by those who are themselves not meikel(See PMG and MSB)
He obviously meant that people who are machmir with this chumra would not drink the coffee. Why not do it in a way that everyone would?
I think the point of the story is that we should learn from an 85 yr old man (he should be maarich yomim) to respect Daas Torah. All the mechutzofim who are the first to bash rabbonim and daas torah should take mussar here and do tesuva.
But no, these azai ponim need to question this rovs reasoning (bec theyre presumabley smarter and more learned than Mr. G) and bash this rov here as well.
#19 – I couldnt agree more with your point. However you must realize that in each generation there are different obstacles, different challenges, and in different generations we have the efsharut to perform different mitzvot/humrot. For example today we are able to inspect greenery for bugs better than in past years. They didnt have suction devices, light boxes etc etc…You may say today why do we have to be so medakdek in something which probably was impossible to have done 100% years ago (since its still impossible today to do 100%)…In response ill tell you that in those days their shochatim were the most kadosh people possible. They surely didnt have issues like the monsey scandal etc…they would only eat meat from someone directly who they knew and trusted. Also, today I feel we need more humrot than previously to help our bond with boreh olam. In the past generations even the simple mans emunah was rock solid…today when theres so many challenges out there we need to further strengthen our bond with hashem…so while I agree with you that too many humrot are hard and sometimes can even be looked at as an annoyance, sometimes its necesary
I, too, finished reading wiyh tears in my eyes. All of you who went off on a tangent regarding the validity of chumros – please, treat yourselves to a soapbox (or a therapist) so you can work out your issues without cluttering the talkbacks.
While Mr. G is to be admired for his disposition, I, not having such a disposition, have to question the Rov. Instant coffee is cooked long before you ever see it. Putting into a kli shani, which most people do, is already chumrah. Sugar likewise is cooked. They boil sugar cane to get the sugar out. Everybody puts the milk in after the hot water, once again you have cooked (pastuerized-that means boiled) milk going into a kli shani. If the rov wants everybody to be able to drink the coffee, those that have a problem with this procedure can make their own or drink it at home. There is vort from the heim, a Roov that everybody likes is nisht ken roov. A Roov that nobody likes is nisht ken mensch.
I would like to ad the following anecdote. There is a shul in monsey that on Yomim noraim is very overcrowded, mostly by Litvishe viber that do not set foot place for the entire year. They block the stairs the lobby and the entances in such a fashion that men cannot get out of the main sanctuary, even the kohanim have a very difficult time getting out to wash for bircas kohanim. I asked the rov (A chasidisha, a tremendous Talmid chochim) and he replied: “The previous Rov, (who was also a tremendous talmid chochim) who knew what was going on, was not moicheh, and therefore I cannot be moicheh.
When the new rov feels that it’s his duty to micromanage the way Coffee had been made for 30 years according to a minority chumrah so that “everyone can drink the coffee.” I have to ask “Who is the ‘everyone’ that hasn’t been there in the last 30 years and obviously managed?” There is something to be said for respect for the minhagim of a place, especially if they are in concert with mainstream halacha.
#35. the storyteller left out the exact details of what was being done with the coffee. so i wouldnt judge without knowing the facts. the main point is that in your saying from der heim, is that a ruv who nobody likes doesnt have a kehilla (nobody listens to him)hence is not a ruv by default. r’ avigdor miller ztl says theres a special place in gehinom for rabbonim who dont give mussar/ rebuke .
what an inspiring story and lesson to all of our us as well as the young people of our generation, many of whom don’t want to listen to anyone of authority such as rebbe’s, moros etc. (maybe not even parents) i think it should be read or printed and passed out to all high school kids. if even a handful take the lesson and apply it to their lives it would be worth it!
#29, excellent point. I knew there was a moral to this story.