The Rabbinical Council of America, having taken note of the recent ruling of the Bet Din Elyon (Rabbinic Court of Appeals) of Israel, nullifying certain conversions performed by the State Conversion Authority led by Rabbi Chaim Druckman, has today issued the following statement:
Having reviewed the ruling of the Bet Din Elyon in detail, and being fully mindful of the respect due the rulings of duly constituted rabbinical courts in their respective jurisdictions, the RCA finds it necessary to state for the record that in our view the ruling itself, as well as the language and tone thereof, are entirely beyond the pale of acceptable halachic practice, violate numerous Torah laws regarding converts and their families, create a massive desecration of God’s name, insult outstanding rabbinic leaders and halachic scholars in Israel, and are a reprehensible cause of widespread conflict and animosity within the Jewish people in Israel and beyond. The RCA is appalled that such a ruling has been issued by that court.
We have been assured by Israel’s Chief Rabbi Rav Shlomo Moshe Amar, who is also the President of the Rabbinical Courts System of Israel, that in releasing this ruling the court in question directly countermanded his instructions and policies. He has confirmed that the ruling has no legal standing at this time. We commend Rav Amar for his positive role in this matter since its very inception in the Ashdod regional court.
We add our rabbinic voice to those of others who have called for a thorough review and repudiation of the actions of a select few of the Bet Din Elyon, who in this ruling as in other previous instances, have sought to undermine the Conversion Authority.
For this reason, and others, it is more important than ever that the Conversion Authority be strengthened in its important work in bringing about halachicly proper conversions to our faith and to the Jewish people.
Given the very public nature of the challenge posed by the ruling in question, we call on the Chief Rabbis of Israel to reaffirm their support of the Conversion Authority and its leadership in clear and unambiguous terms at the earliest possible time. Until that will happen, each passing day will cause reprehensible anguish to halachic converts, irreparable harm to the fabric of the Jewish people, and a considerable debasement of the good name of Torah, halachah, and tradition.
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25 Responses
Oy, we are missing Reb Moishe who could pasken in these matters….
A slap in the face to gerim.
When will Mashiach come, messages must be given in the proper way with careful scrutiny and investigation. (none of that occured)
it is interesting that you left out the lead in to the above statement:
” Leviticus 19:33 : “You (plural) shall not oppress the convert in your land.”
Commentary of the Netziv: “The plural form of the verse teaches us that a third party who sees the oppression of a convert and does not protest is also guilty of oppression.””
Anyone following the activity of R’ Druckman’s conversion process since its inception and with even a basic knowledge of requirement for geirus, should be surprised that it took so long for a Beis Din to invalidate these conversions.
As a ger, this is the reality on how hard it is to be a Jew, and how divisive we can be as Jews. Seems, no matter how hard I try to be a proper Jew, as a ger, the non-ger Jews are against me, and all other gerim. This makes me disgusted with “Black Hats, Frum from Birth, and the Charedi. For no matter what we, as gers, do, we will never be accepted as real “Jews.” This is how many of us feel after this situation came to light. Ostersize us, but we, the gerim, will prevail.
Nochamol? You have personal insight? You are a posik? You are a “Torah Jew?” To me you are a perpetuator of hatred. A direct action against “..love the ger amongst us.” Then again, if you feel no shame….
Im not sure what the real story here is, but the issur of opressing a convert is completely irrelevant. We need to know if this Rav was corrupt and if he is, then regardless, no matter how nice or sincere they are or whatever, they aren’t Jewish. It’s not people picking on converts, it’s a question of the reliability of that rav and whether he’s lied and ruined all these peoples lives.
urbmase #6
The high criteria for accepting geirim is in fact neccesary and inorder for the geirus to be accepted and create acceptance from the cross sector of Judaism including those you appear to find disgusting. The parties who have compromised on those, mind you ages old, guidelines are complicit in creating these questions in the minds of all if a geirus was done properly. We take geirus very seriously in that it concerns not only our social relationship with the party in question but also as it relates to various halachic issues which are tantamont eg marriage.
The RCA in particular has some rabbis who are known as geirus factories. Thus they’re dispute here, I find, not worthy to prove the justice of Rabbi Druckman’s cause
The RCA should now begin to realize just how precarious a deal they made with the Chief Rabbinate in Israel. They are beholden to the rabbis they condemn in their statement.
once again rav chaim zonenfeld ztl gets vindicated for opposing the founding of a beis din “elyon” as everyone knew until that time the famous mishna that no beis din can annul the words of an other beis din unless its greater in wisdom and numbers…. sad.
Not surprising that it is the RCA coming to the defense if the “conversion courts”. The RCA also has no standards regarding kabalas ol mitzvos. I remember a local RCA “Rabbi” explaining to Federation that since he could not accept a Ger who does not accept mitzvos, he doesn’t ask!!!
To urbmase: Of course there is no excuse to treat a true Ger any less than a full Jew. On the contrary we must love a convert even more. However, care must be taken to delicately differentiate between sincere Gerim like yourself presumably and between the insincere ones. Your anger should be directed towards these insincere converts and those who accept them unquestioningly and cause suspicion on yourself and others.
first perek in idiyos mishna 5, for the quote above ” ein bes din yachol levatel divrei bes din chaveiro ad sheyihei gadol mimenu bchochma ubminyan”
Better to be a goy tzaddik than a sinning Jew. A “ger” who converts without COMPLETE acceptance of ‘KOL HATORAH KULO’ is NOT a Jew,nor a ger.He will think of himself as a Jew and will compare himself to a Jew who was born a Jew but keeps nothing and believe himself to be a better Jew when he’s not. A person born to such a “ger”even if he’s a very good person,is still not Jewish. A Jew who is born to a valid Jewish mother but keeps nothing,doing all the aveiros,is still a full-fledged Jew,albeit a sinner.
Case in point “Natan Levi of Lakewood”
Sorry to say the least, This is what happens when the Goverenment of the State of Israel gets involved in Religion when they should have no business, never mind on opinion on a Bais Din.
A Bais Din that is under the jurisdiction of the Gov. has no legal status at all & this is the big issue here & Geirus should not be done in mass production but rather on an individual basis in order to be acceptable.
These comments from the other related posting are relevent here. This is a very serious issue and can cause terrible issurei bee’a and mamzerim and false Jews
As a ger, by Harav Fienstein, shlita of the MTJ Yeshiva, I find this ruling to be devisive, and disrespectable. To be a Jew is not easy. For the love of Hashem we are apart of Klal Israel. If a ger does an overa, or breaks a Shabbat, that person is still a Jew. , although he messed up severly, he is still a Jew., .
Comment by urbmase —
Hopefully this matter can be resolved quickly and without further pain to the geirim in question and klal yisrael. This type of political maneuvering by certain “Rabbis” only divides klal yisrael and further reduces the observance of Torah and the stature of Batei Din.
Comment by Left Brooklyn —
urbmase (#1),
nobody claims that if a ger authentically accepts the mitzvos, but once in a while does an aveirah, that (s)he is not a jew. Of course (s)he is. Nobody is perfect.
The issue is with geirim who officially accept to live a lifestyle according to the torah but then live as totally secular jews. The problem is that if their lifestyle proves that they were never sincere in their acceptance of the mitzvos, then their original geirus was a phony fraud.
That in no way diminishes the status of an authentic ger such as yourself. (If HaRav Dovid Feinstein shlita was megayer you, I don’t think anyone in their right mind would question the validity of the geirus).
Comment by charlie brown —
A true Ger, who fully accepted the Torah way of life, and lived in accordance with it, if he deviates from observance at a later point in life, is considered a Yisroel Mumar, as per Rambam and the Shulchan Aruch. He remains a Jew forever, even if failing to observe a single Mitzva, as long as at the time of conversion he was an upright Jew. You seem to be in the Ger Tzedek category, and, as such, who in his right mind would challenge your gerus?
Yet, those who never intended to keep a thing, and openly defy the very religion they profess to join, clearly remain gentiles, as per their birth. There is absolutely nothing wrong with being one, and a goy who observes the 7 mitzvos has his share in Olam Haba. However, every human being has enough sense to understand that when you sign a contract, you have to abide by it, and when there are policies within, you must adhere to. So, forgetting Rabbinic reasoning for just a second, common sense dictates that if one never accepted to fulfill an agreement, it is void from the beginning, and any person who wishes to convert surely can understand that argument. How then, can one come later and claim that his conversion was valid, if he alone knows that it was as fictitious as a Brooklyn Bridge sale?
The bottom line: INTENT. As for this ger, to use the words of the late Charleton Heston, “…from my cold dead hands..” will my Love for being a Jew be taken from me. Am Israel Chai!
To urbmase:
I am not a hater of geirim.
It’s just that the approach that R’ Druckman was using from day one was so obviously wrong. The Rabbonim should have stood up then and protested and seen that it was done correctly and not have waited so many years!
The psak of the Rabbonim here was correct, but the damage done was caused by both sides; R’ Druckman for doing what he did and the Rabbonim because they waited so long to object.
A true ger tzedek who is learned somewhat would realize that the issue is not personal. If he is a Jew, he must be treated like a ger tzedek. The problem is only that he may not indeed be a Jew. In that case, he can do it again under the auspices of a reliable, universally accepted authority, and settle the issue. Did I miss something? The issue is not unsolvable.
lakewooder2,
>first perek in idiyos mishna 5, for the quote above ” ein bes din yachol levatel divrei bes din chaveiro ad sheyihei gadol mimenu bchochma ubminyan”
And don’t forget things -“SHE’AIN Bais din chaveiro yachol l’vatlo AFILU IM KAYN GADOL AYMENU BICHOCHMO UVIMINYAN. She’afilo ba’in Eliyahu uvais dino umatirin, ain shomim lahem.” Like pas yisroel and cholov yisroel (gevinosum).
Ayin peirush hamishniyas l’haRambam z”l shum, and Yerushalmi Shabbos 1:4. OU please take note.
And while there is a mitzvah of V’ahavtem as hager. It also says: “V’ger od dor 15 (24)…”
-Pesikta
1. the ISRAEL RABBINAT court leader was sherman, a former israeli soldier.
2. he paskened because he was either following direct order or trying to pleass RYSE, which makes his decision invalid, and him too.
3. his logic makes R’ Goren mamzerim pesak 100% correct, thus he is going against his godol.
4. he is a mechayiv bnafsho paskening in front and against his rebbies shitos and clear psak that the gerus was good
5. obviously then this whole is a megillacutie pandering to the masses and needs no response, he might as well pasken that .. is moshiach.
the “so called charedi olam” that was against the rabbanut[ brisk, c”i, etc, are now CONTROLLING the rabbanute.
doesnt anyone see the false haskofot of these tzaddikim gaonei hador who go against all they clainmed in the past to make machlokes nad hefker petriske in am kaddosh vnivchar.
Genug
WHAT???
I think some of the supporters of the annulment of gerrus have forgotten that Sephardi Chief Rabbi Shlomo Moshe Amar, a reknowned posek, has attacked the decision of the court as well. Are you going to say that he is makel?
For those who say that the RCA is lax on conversions, I am in shock at the charges being made which I know, from personal experience, are not true. I am a ger tzedek whose conversion document was signed by RCA members 27 years ago. My study then took a year, even though I had already had, and rejected, a conservative conversion for two years. I was required to break up with my girl friend (who was unwilling to become shomeres Shabbos). I was required to spend every Shabbos in an Orthodox home to learn how things were done and to break my lease and move into an Orthodox neighborhood (at more than double the rent) even though, in theory, I could have stayed with friends until my financial situation improved. Since then, I’ve completed Shas once, and I’m half way through my second Daf Yomi cycle. On a dare from Rabbi Yehezkel Danziger, I translated the last page of Kesubos for Art Scroll, and received editorial credit (this was to celebrate my 20th year as a Jew). My daughter went to a top Israeli seminary and married a yeshiva bachur. No, most other RCA converts do not accomplish this much, but they must and do establish their commitment to Torah observance before even being brought to a beis din. I do know one or two converts who later backslid, but that does not mean that at the time of their conversion they were 100% sincere. In the same time, I know many more frum from birth yeshiva boys and seminary girls who went off the derech. Yet, I do not suggest that they were never Jewish. They and the lapsed convert are held by the same exacting standard G-d holds all Jews.
A great rav once told me that black hat Jews who insist on diminishing the Jewishness of others are guilty of loshon hara and cannot, therefore, say that they personally have any more yirras shamayim than anyone else. I suspect that many who have commented here should consider their words in this light.
#27. Baruch Hashem, said perfect. Yofi!!