YU making false claims?

45

yu logo 2.jpg (According to a claim on a YU website) Recent statistics show tremendous growth of the University’s YUTorah.org website. The website, first launched in 2005 and now supported by the CJF is now the largest disseminator of Torah lectures online and utilizes RIETS and CJF resources for the use of Yeshiva and general Jewish community. 

In the month of February 2005, the website received 401, 929 hits. The number of hits during this March shows that the website was visited 1,487,815 times. The most popular items on the website are the thousands of lectures by RIETS Roshei Yeshiva, but many visitors take advantage of other audio and video casts, as well as Yeshiva publications made available through the site.

It is an undisputed fact that the Aish Hatorah website is the largest disseminator of Torah on the Internet. (Any simple statistics website can prove that. Example: Traffic Rank for yutorah.org: 617,216 & Traffic Rank for aish.com: 17,927)

(Yeshivaworld is not disputing the fact that the YU website is spreading Torah.)

Perhaps someone can explain this – WITHOUT – Lashon Hara (as those comments will be ignored.)




45 COMMENTS

  1. its based on hiden page link each time one wants to read something a new page opens up so it puts up the hits googel have baned some car componey in the uk for doing it the main reason is it comes up higher on googel

  2. “is now the largest disseminator of Torah lectures online” means that they are the biggest, not that they necessarily have the most hits.

    What’s the question?

  3. Why bother wasting an article/comments trying to divine the truth over who is a largest disseminator of Torah. If they make the claim gezunta heit. Just be happy that there are that many people downloading shiurim and listening to Torah.

  4. You guys are a bunch of babies. This reminds me of the days when I was in kindergarten and we used to argue which tatty had a nicer car.
    Big deal , so YU claims that their web site attracts the most hits for torah studies. Grow up and get a life.

  5. There are thousands of shiurim on Torah Web and I can’t seem to find any on Yeshiva World. Am I missing something? Are we just, once again, looking for a reason to bash YU and modern orthodoxy?

    Note: There are no Shiurim on Yeshivaworld since Yeshivaworld is a NEWS site. You know that, but are looking for some action. (It was obvious from the link attached to your screen-name)If you would have READ the article you would have noticed the following quote “Yeshivaworld is not disputing the fact that the YU website is spreading Torah.Please, cut it out – or don’t comment.

  6. There are many ways of measuring who is the largest. It can be the most hits, the largest selection, the most lectures downloaded, or the largest organization which disseminates lectures online. While the first seems to clearly be Aish, the others may well be YU. I would suggest though that maybe the headline should be less offensive so that noone should think that this is meant as an attack, since some are very sensitive about these things. I personally understand from what I have seen on this site that this is NOT the editor’s intent.

  7. Your headline is offensive and crosses into Avak Lashon Hara. Additionally, being that you are discussing Shomrei Torah U’mitzvos, you are required l’halacha to be dan l’kaf zechus. Instead it appears that you made assumptions about what “largest” meant.

    In my opinion, it is not befitiing YW to keep this article as it is currently written.

  8. I go to both websites.
    Both have high quality shiurim.
    However the post compare apples to animals(oranges are at least the same brocho).
    Aish sends emails out twice a week. to read each artcle you must click on the email to the website. This boosts their hit count.

    YU allows you to download for free. Aish charges for downloading. If one looks at dowloads YU might be bigger. If one looks at # shiurim YU is bigger.

  9. Rule #2 in your rules and regulations state: 2) Opinions are okay, but demeaning torah, halacha and gedolim is not okay. We do not want the responsibility of deciding how wrong a comment is, and if it is or if it isn’t against halacha. We are not poskim and we will always err on the side of caution.

    If your title isn’t demeaning of torah, I don’t know what is.

  10. Just a technical point here the article says ‘according to a claim on a YU website’ but I don’t believe that campusJ is a YU website.

  11. Your story read… It is an undisputed fact that the Aish Hatorah website is the largest disseminator of Torah on the Internet. (Any simple statistics website can prove that. Example: Traffic Rank for yutorah.org: 617,216 & Traffic Rank for aish.com: 17,927) …..

    unles my math suddenly became geography and went south, it looks like YU has Aish beat by just about 600,000!!!

  12. YU org is a tremendous mezakeh horabim! stop whining and maybe instead of looking for “false claims” do something positive and create your own shiurim. It’s about time the gedolim and your circle understand that the internet is here to stay and it is not going. Let’s see if they can come up with ideas to use it positively.

    In the meantime YUORG THANK YOU (i use your services).

  13. mark levin,

    I originally read it the way that you did, but I believe that it’s a rank of traffic. Thus, Aish is that far ahead in the rankings.

  14. As others have mentioned, to title the story “YU making false claims” is inflammatory, and is yellow-journalism if it was a student that made the claim, and not YU official policy.

  15. mark levin – The number is a Rank, not traffic numbers. The more traffic the higher the rank (and the lower the number). For example, Google has a rank of 1.

    This mean that there are 600,000 website that generate more traffic than YU, that still have less traffic than Aish.

  16. what is the big deal
    we should be happy that there is a sight such as yu to learn torah
    so who cares about the hits
    go look at it a start learning
    i am sure that yu didn’t lie we must have not understood what it means

  17. well said-why cant everyone just stick to their own plates- I dont see what exactly the problem is that so many yidden are using internet for torah purposes

  18. eli wrote:

    It’s about time the gedolim and your circle understand that the internet is here to stay and it is not going. Let’s see if they can come up with ideas to use it positively.

    Quite strange that you can post eli’s post. He’s smart enough to know terms like mezakeh horabim, yet he speaks of the gedolim with such contempt. You’ve filtered out much less problematic postings from me, yet this drivel gets through!?!

    I get it. When those old men get with the times, then the world will be a better place? HELLO! Why is this rotten garbage posted!?!

    Could you imagine the righteous indignation if that post had been something akin to:

    when will you modern orthodox types and your knitted kipot finally . . .

    when will you Tzioni and your leaders finally catch up with . . .

    When those types of things make it on to this site, they get blasted. When the true sonai Yisroel pop up their heads, you post it, and no one complains! What! Go ahead. Take me on now. But don’t do it unless you’ve experienced the hatred that I have from the modern “olam” and the Lubos. The world is upside down! I know that not all of the yeshivisa olam is without blemish, but the deepest sina that I’ve ever encountered is from people like eli. Usually they aren’t as bold as him!

    Before I was frum, I had long hair, and I enjoyed seeing how people sometimes judged me for my external appearance. It’s revealing. Now I proudly wear a black hat, and the judgements keep coming. From some of the very same wacky liberals that I used to hang out with and from the liberals within K’lal Yisroel.

  19. When someone asked Rav Avigdor Milller if they could put his torah on the internet, he said it’s like asking to take his torah and put it in a garbage can. For all the good that can be done through the internet there’s much more bad. Everyone knows what I mean and it’s not a coincidence what the number one googled word is (I can’t write what it is, but you should be smart enought to figure it out on your own) So I don’t think the gidolim are going to change their mind any time soon, and unless you can figure out a way to avoid the problems, I don’t think you should try to change anything.

  20. Oh, and Mark, the LOWER the number the HIGHER the ranking. First place is 1, last place is the 6 million and something ranking that all new sites begin with.

  21. Yosi Bishuk,

    I understand your angst. However, Eli’s revolting comment about Gedolim is not worthy of even a well meaning response. Don’t sweat it.

  22. this article belongs on this site, “YESHIVA WORLD” if you ever drive by YU during the day you see the most yeshivishe looking crowd around, you know black pants white shirts, tzis hanginging , sefira beards, so the yeshiva world must be informed about the growing competition befor you know it someone might wear a blue shirt in BMG.

  23. Eilu v’eilu divrei Elo–im Chaim.
    In these days of Sefirah,let us remember and learn from the events that led to losing 24,000 talmidim of Rabi Akivah ,z.t.l. and the sin’as chinom at the time of the 2nd churban. Shalom al Yisroel!Let each one contribute Torah according to his ability.

  24. (Any simple statistics website can prove that. Example: Traffic Rank for yutorah.org: 617,216 & Traffic Rank for aish.com: 17,927)

    Just for the record, this comment was not written clearly. For those, like myself, who got confused and figured at first that this was just a typo (and for the shamefully foolish who spat sharp words to the website over this) here is the explanation:

    Traffic Rank ranks websites according to how many hits it receives. They have a list of the 100,000 most popular websites (based on hits). Right now Yahoo.com ranks #1 (meaning receiving the most hits). Aish.com is Ranked at 17,927th place (I.E. the 17,927th most popular website). YUtorah.org isn’t within the top 100,000 and ranks way down at only the 617,216th most popular website (I.E. It gets much less hits than Aish.com)

    With that said and clarified I feel it is only right to mention that there are various factors involved that could greatly offset the balance of popularity of their websites. First, Aish.com links to http://www.aish.com/wallcam/, a live cam of the Kotel. This receives an incredible amount of hits, even from Non-Jews. It is quite possible that that link is what offsets the balance.

    Second, the website Campusj.com is reporting that YUtorah.org is the “largest disseminator of Torah lectures online.” However, they are purportedly quoting yucommentator.com, which clearly DOES NOT say such a thing! They just state its present growth. We have the right to challenge Campusj.com on their statement, but not the yucommentator.com. Non-the-less, I think we should give Dan Lkav Zchus and assume that the writer of that article either misunderstood the original article or got carried away in his excitement. I assume he’ll be more careful in the future.

    With that said and done, I’d like to thank the writer of this article for making me aware of a website I didn’t previously know about. Even though it goes without saying that YU has much to be desired, non-the-less we can’t deny that the lineup of Rabbanim (Gedolim) that have walked through those doors is incredible. (Not that I understand why they chose to associate with them) If the present Rabbanim who’s lectures are on line compare in Hashkafa and Gadlus to Gedolim like Rav Shimon Shkop, Rav Dovid Lifshitz, Rav Nisson Lippa Alpert, and the like, then it is certainly worthwhile to visit their site. I haven’t gone to the website yet and hope that it won’t be a disappointment.

  25. KUDOS yosi bishuk,
    I dont think anyone could have said it better!
    Im sure YW editor realizes that that comment slipped by. Lets hope
    he can delete it to but if he cant I and the rest of the “yeshiva world”
    are MOCHE for Kavod HaTorah!!!!!

  26. Thank you to everyone who pointed that out to me. I stand humbled before you.

    In reading the rest of the posts, this seems to have been a claim by a student and not the school. The emes is even if it were to have been the school, who really cares (and I am not a YU’nik). To me it doesnt make a diff if it was YU, Aish, 613, OU, etc., etc.

  27. that headline “YU making false claims?” maybe is lashon hara and mosay shem ra

    ask any Rav. I can not believe this web site would do that during sefira.
    a safek isur is worse then an issur itself!!

    It is almost impossible to do teshuva for saying lashon hara about a group. You have hurt at least 20000 jews who went to yu. I pray for your neshama that you are able to do teshuva for that. I would go to Yu and give them a letter of apology today just to make sure you cover all your bases.. It pays to be machmer!! in lashon hara during sefirah. It pays to ask an official at Yu before you make claims against a jewish organization!
    be blessed

  28. Moshe Fox,

    I’m starting to like you.

    ( :

    Sinas chinam is sinat chinam is sinas chinam.

    I don’t know if the headline reveals that there is sinas chinam. Perhaps “yeshivaish” folk wait with baited breath for the more modern world to slip, but I don’t know if it’s sinas chinam. It could be immaturity. It could be that the person holds that the modern orthodox world is not living according to daas Torah.

    The comment that I took issue with is different. If you (the hypothetical “you”) have a problem with some of the issues/dysfunctions within the olam hayeshiva and choose to be critical, I could question your tone or the forum where you ask. But no one with any sechel will pretend that there are not serious problems in K’lal Yisroel.

    When a man who is clearly semi-learned lets loose with a comment about “those gedolim,” I sense a very poisonous sinah. I would react similarly (although I wouldn’t have to b/c you’d beat me to it) if someone had harsh words for the leaders at YU or the Sefardisha Gedolim. Talmidai Chochomim and especially those who we call the gedolim are the Moshe Rabbainu of our generation.

    I stayed away from the real name calling, but for the record, I felt Eli’s comments were rishus and apikorsis. I didn’t believe that I could even address him directly. I hope he does teshuva.

  29. HaKatan’s answer was correct. By the way, the title of this post was lashon hara because it inferred that a group of Jews –a yeshiva, to be precise–are dishonest. (see “Guard Your Tongue” by the Chofetz Chaim, ed. Rabbi Zelig Pliskin).

  30. TRULY SAD. IT WOULD BE UNFORTUNATE IF YOUR SITE EXHIBITS THE CLOSED-MINDEDNESS OF SOME OF YOUR READERS. READ THE FOLLOWING THAT YOU JUST ALLOWED TO PASS YOUR CENSOR AND EITHER ADMIT YOUR OVERSIGHT OR GET ANOTHER LESSON IN JEWISH HISTORY, HALACHA, SINAS CHINOM AND ELU VE’ELU. I HOPE YOU CAN APPRECIATE THE 2 DIFFERENT AFFRONTS THIS PARAGRAPH EXHIBITS AND PUBLISH AN APOLOGY FOR ALLOWING THIS TYPE OF RHETORIC ON YOUR SITE:

    With that said and done, I’d like to thank the writer of this article for making me aware of a website I didn’t previously know about. Even though it goes without saying that YU has much to be desired, non-the-less we can’t deny that the lineup of Rabbanim (Gedolim) that have walked through those doors is incredible. (Not that I understand why they chose to associate with them) If the present Rabbanim who’s lectures are on line compare in Hashkafa and Gadlus to Gedolim like Rav Shimon Shkop, Rav Dovid Lifshitz, Rav Nisson Lippa Alpert, and the like, then it is certainly worthwhile to visit their site. I haven’t gone to the website yet and hope that it won’t be a disappointment.

    THIS PARAGRAPH INSULTS BOTH THE GEDOLIM LISTED Z’L (QUESTIONING THEIR ASSOCIATION) AND OF COURSE THE LEADING ROSHEI YESHIVA Z’L OF THE YESHIVA OVER THE LAST 75 OR SO YEARS WHOSE IDEOLOGY YOU CANNOT BEGIN TO UNDERSTAND.

  31. MR YW EDITOR:

    I don’t think this story is newsworthy.

    NOTE FROM MODERATION PANEL: Why don’t you READ the message which is located above the submit button next to every story?

    YW Editor does not moderate these comments.

  32. To DrYidd,

    It appears to me that you must have misunderstood me. Perhaps it was my brevity. First, I happen to have personally known two of the Gedolim that taught at YU and have great admiration for them, ztl.
    However, there is no question that some of powerful members of the administration of YU have made decisions for the University that have not been sanctioned by Gedolim. Are you going to stand up and state that when Rav Mordechai Gifter, ztl came out against one of the administrators of YU on an issue of Tznius (or lack of it on campus), he was acting out of sinas chinum? I would hope not!
    Understand, I am not implying that the people that attend YU are bad and not to be associated with, Chalila! I am, however, directly stating that there are those in power at YU that certainly take the yoke of Psak into their own hands ASSUMING they are fit to do so (when they are not). It is those questionable Jews who I wonder how these gedolim of YU were able to tolerate working for. This is what I’m referring to.
    You are too quick to jump to conclusions. Instead of questioning me and my believes, you’ve decided what I believe and have called me a sonei yisroel. Perhaps you’re being too unfair? Just perhaps?

  33. If you’d look at the front page of The Commentator, you’d see that it endorses itself as “the official student newspaper of yeshiva college and sy syms school of business.” nowhere do i see that it represents RIETS, which is an “affiliate” of yeshiva university.

  34. To the YW Editor:

    Has anyone contacted the writer of the questionable article for a response? I’d like to know if he stands by his claim, clarifies it, or retracts it. His response may quench the fire.

  35. MH Magid – read my comments again. i did not say anything about the administrators (whoever you might mean) or R. Gifter z’l. I repeat: 1) You should learn from (all) gedolim not be so quick to question their behavior, something you repeated again! 2) Your choice of gedolim to list probably reflects your hashkafa – it is not the dominant hashkafa of the yeshiva, one to which you probably have not had much exposure. and i repeat: ANOTHER LESSON IN JEWISH HISTORY, HALACHA, SINAS CHINOM AND ELU VE’ELU, particularly the last item, would be useful! It would help you undertand both the gedolim you questioned and those you (carefully) omitted.

    BTW, I did not use the term sonei yisroel and certainly did not accuse you of being one. I do not know enough to determine that, and always prefer not to presume. but if you keep writing you may start tilting in that direction. Your last post was more intemperate than your first.