As the Plesner Committee convenes to map out the new state law regarding conscription into the IDF, HaRosh Yeshiva HaGaon HaRav Aaron Yehuda Leib Shteinman Shlita is consulted as how chareidi MKs are to act.
According to a Yated Ne’eman report, Degel HaTorah MKs Moshe Gafne and Uri Maklev visited the gadol hador on Tuesday, to receive direction on the matter.
The rav was briefed as to ongoing efforts to formulate different plans to induct chareidim into the military or national service, tenacious efforts that are being described as unprecedented.
“There is no room for discussion and no place for compromise. There is no reason to sit with them” the rosh yeshiva is quoted as saying. “There is absolutely no possibility to tell them to begin learning Torah at the age of 20 or 30 for those are years they must toil in torah and that alone”, Rav Shteinman is quoted as adding.
The report adds Rav Shteinman addressed “the place”, referring to the IDF as one with “many problems and torah prohibitions. We may not consider sacrificing a single neshama chas v’sholom and we may not tell a bachur who wishes to study today not to study. There is no place for compromise. This is dinei nefoshos mamosh!”
(YWN – Israel Desk, Jerusalem)
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10 Responses
Sounds like the Rav is giving a green light for bochurim who choose to enlist to do so, as long as those who choose to learn are able to do that.
I honestly don’t understand this position. When the State was created in 1948, the gedolim established the exemption for students who were planning on becoming full time rabbis who needed this time to prepare for semicha etc…then the charedi community applied this to every frum person claiming that is impossible to be frum and in the army. Now, when the army has become much more ‘frum friendly’ and hesder (joint yeshiva/army) programs are flourishing, the rabbonim again are changing their view, making it clear that they just don’t want to support the medinah or to be part of the general klal – no matter what.
It is clear that even when the govt/army would allow charedim to serve shorter terms, in all frum units, with mehadrin food, no tznius issues and to be part of a full time yeshiva with rabbonim and halachic/hashkafic guidance, the rabbonim will still say “NO”.
We have dug ourselves a hole we can’t get out of now…
Actually a compromise would be very easy if the Hilonim were: 1) willing to have the army conducted according to Jewish values and customs (imagine one big Nahal Hareidi, perhaps with some small marginalized units for hilonim that can’t stand kosher food or Shabbos); 2) willing to accept that someone learning full time (which doesn’t mean 20 hours a week smoozing in a Beis Medrash) is contributing to national survival. At present most yeshiva exemptions are people who want to be Baal ha-Batim, but the only option if they refuse to serve in the treff army is to stay in yeshiva – if offered the option of serving in the army without having to struggle to do mitsvos, most would do so.
But what sane person would want to serve in the army in a unit similar to the American buffalo soldiers (a segregated unit for people deemed to be of low worth to those in charge) or in a situation where they would have to say “we’ll fight the zionists as if there were no Arabs, and the Arabs as if there were no zionists.”
Our gedolim have wisely chosen to “rodef shalom” by telling the zionists we are too busy learning to join them in their war – the alternative is to tell them they are heretics, bigots and fools who are endangering the survival of the Jewish people, as telling them the truth would really get them mad. Better they should see as a parasites than as mortal enemies.
Baruch Hashem Klal Yisroel has Gedolei Hador such as Rav Shteinman and Rav Eliashev!
I heard you have all these Sudany guys comming in the borders everyday. I heard they want jobs.
Hey, Tzha”l, why don’t you draft them in and get off our backs??
To MichaelB, firstly, can you please quote a source to what you said, “(When the State was created in 1948, the gedolim established the exemption for students who were planning on becoming full time rabbis who needed this time to prepare for semicha etc…).”
Secondly, I have seen plenty of regular frum bachurim which went through nachal chareidy and other hesder parts of the army, and they are not left with the same hashkafos they went in with, (except a lot of mizrachis who originally go in with very strong outlooks on certain matters..).
Also about what you wrote at the end of your letter, “(It is clear that even when the govt/army would allow charedim to serve shorter terms, in all frum units, with mehadrin food, no tznius issues and to be part of a full time yeshiva with rabbonim and halachic/hashkafic guidance, the rabbonim will still say “NO”).” I think you have been drugged!!! The communist, chareidy hatting government would never allow that, (even if they promise now, for look at all their empty promises in the hesder corps..).
When the State was created in 1948, the gedolim established the exemption for students who were planning on becoming full time rabbis who needed this time to prepare for semicha etc…
No, they didn’t. The exemption was for anybody whose full-time occupation was learning Torah. It’s got nothing to do with any plans for a career in Rabbonus; Torah is a goal, not a means. And Torah learning is vital to the national defense. The gemara says that without David’s learning Yoav would not have won his wars, and without Yoav’s victories David would not have been able to learn. If the Bnei Torah are forced away from the gemaras, how can the country expect to survive?
Those who are not learning should, of course, go to the army, so long as the army doesn’t try to force them to compromise on halacha, as in the kol isha incidents.
did anyone notice that Gafne and maklev (Yahadut hatorah) voted AGAINST the bill to save the houses of 30 jewish families in Bet El , because Rav Shteineman told them to vote against the bill…..I will not expand upon my remarks..”vehameivin jovin”
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Rabbi Brand’s claims against the position of the Brisker Rov and the Satmar Rov as if it is against the Torah are totally out of place. It should be unnecessary for someone small as myself to have to defend those 2 giants of their generations, but unfortanately as we see people are openning their mouths with foolish words, and falsifying that which has been the position of our sages back to the days of the Talmud. It should also be noted that the Chazon Ish too held that the establishment of the State was a transgression, but he felt compelled to participate with the govrnment afterwords for the interests of the religious community. This position is also is articulated by the Steipler in Karyana D’Igarta 205. Rav Heinkin in his Tshuvos sefer also has a similar position. All of these held the establishment of the state was a violation and this was the position of most of the other Gedolim of that time and the list is too long for here.
Yes, of course, in the times of the Torah there were wars and a Jewish army, but this is not the Hanhogo during the time of Golus when we are prohibited of doing so. Cf. Rambam end of 14th Shoresh, Rabeinu B’chayei begenning of Parashas Vayishlach, Be’er Hagola 25:2,5 , Beis Yosef (in the Mehudar additions) & Bach in Orach Chaim 249.
The reason Rabbi Akiva joined Bar Kochva was only because he thought he was Moshiach. This turned out to be wrong and he was since then named Bar Kuziva (of false).
The shulchan Oruch in 329 is dealing with a case of jews who are being attacked by a mob or army or whatever it is and we have to defend ourselves. The Shulchan Oruch does not permit entering into a war in order to capture land in Eretz Yisroel. That is why he ommits the Halacha of “ein tzorin” from Shulchan Oruch 249.
The above hebrew written message says the Chareidim must do Teshuva for being partially influenced by the Brisker Rov and the Satmar Rov. NO!!! We should all do Teshuva for not following their words FULLY, as well as for many other aveiros that we unfortunately need to do Teshuva for.