Israeli opposition leader Yair Lapid has put forward a revised draft law aimed at enforcing military and civil service obligations among Charedim, telling members of his Yesh Atid party that the stipulations of his proposal “will lead to a real equality of the burden.”
“The state simply cannot continue to transfer funds to those who evade service,” Lapid argued. “The new law will be clear and simple: those who evade will not receive money, those who do not serve in the army or civil service will not receive allowances from the state.”
“Whoever enlists, the state will do everything to make it easier for him and help him,” he added, and suggested that that the incorporation of Charedim into military service could negate the necessity for proposed extensions of mandatory service and reserve duty periods.
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21 Responses
What hate? We are in the middle of a war for our survival. It is in the best interest of the Charedim to help in the war effort, especially the ones who are not sitting and learning all day.
YWN- Not sure how this has to do with ‘Attacking Charedim’… It kind of makes perfect sense to compensate people that hand over a few years of their life for public service.
Maybe a little self-introspection into how Aguda conducts itself regarding policies can also do some good. I’m referring to Gafni cooking up deals with the labor and Arab parties in exchange for voting against removing the anti-Semite Ofer Kasif from the Knesset. Really? When is Aguda gonna stop making their beds with the enemy for the sake of making a couple of bucks?
I’m strongly in favor of removing the draft all together. I’m not convinced that there won’t be enough soldiers. If you don’t understand that the Jewish state is worth fighting for let it fall. Frum people are more likely to join without coercion.
I am not sure why this is called hate. He is just asking that everyone carry the burden of protecting the country equally. The same way people leave learning and davening to take a hatzolah call people can leave learning to defend the country.
Lapid, Rot in the garbage you are sewing, when this war is over, this Chareidi Grams will take to you to court…..take every shekel you have and donate it to every Yeshiva….so that no one turns out behaving like you or resembling a body or dis easement like you have to Israel,
There is much to criticize about Lapid and his attitude/statements toward religion, but this particular pronouncement is not one of them. Even if you disagree with him, there is no hate here.
an Israeli Yid
YOU DON’T UNDERSTAND… YOU DON’T NEED TO UNDERSTAND!
THE RULING OF THE GEDOLIM IS AND WAS CLEAR – no army service for Bnei Torah!
OUR GEDOLIM ARE PEOPLE WHO COMMIT THEIR LIVE FOR TORAH AND YIDDISHKEIT WHILE HELPING THE KLALL IN ALL MATTERS.
Here come a few heretics, who rarely open a Jewish book, NEVER ever learned any mussar and trying to lecture our GEDOLIM who engrossed in Torah 24/7 – WHAT A CHUTZPAH –
to the moderator: why do you allow these kefiroh comments on you website.
Lapid, was a no goodnik, is a no goodnik and will continue to be a no goodnik.
Hell is too good for him.
This is not hate. Even a kallah mei’chupasoh goes to a milchemet mitzvah, certainly a male from the BM.
When bnei yisroel went to conquer eretz yisroel, reuven gad and half of Menasha wanted to stay on the other side of the yarden (ultimately negating their responsibility to fight to conquer the land). This got moshebvery upset and it was only after they convinced him they would lead the fighting did moshe accept.
Yehoshua went to fight amalek and others
Avraham went to fight to save lot
Shimon and leavi went to save Dina
Yaakov prepared for battle with eisav.
David killed countless
Shimshon- thousands
Chashmonaim….
Etc…
Leaders are the first to battle.
I have to side with lapid
Can someone please explain to me what is so terribly evil about having chareidim doing sheirut leumi?
Hold it guys; ONE SECOND…
There’s lots of validity to say that if the gedolei Yisroel say no; it’s no. If Lieberman is willing to sit and discuss with the Rabbis, that’s acceptable and well favored over media attacks he does in this ugly fashion in a sit that should call for achdus.
There’s a more unpopular stand amongst some chareidi circles (not only Satmar and NK and their likes), that have a different take. I thought about it myself but seems like some chilonim (I even read it on a news flash from them), understand this:
First: I’M not satmar or NK!
Chareidim (I’ll use “we”, “us”) in general, are not zionistic. We can be respectful but demand FULL respect from the government. The antagonizing against every Torah value and how they step on everything and anyone that wants to be an am kodosh, is unforgivable. Period. To many (not all), the government and its Zionist aspirations, are NOT welcomed. The main reason for voting for the right was to ensure some basic needs we need, in addition to some control over the yiddishkeit in Israel (not working too well). (Of course the beauty of yiddishkeit should never be pushed down someone’s throats, but respect for values that are trampled in public needs to be stopped.)
Security and safety is another reason as we have our doubts about how government handles terror threats and actions. We did not vote for settlements, attacking Arabs, discriminating against other faiths (Greek church spitting), and other nationalist behavior.
As many gedolim – some I know from today, and others from yesteryear, and more from the time of the country’s inception and ideation that led to the creation. They were extremely vocal against the movement and it was a shaas hadchak that we have a state. Chazon ish, brisk, and others accepted that there’s a state and showed hakoras hatov to government agencies and appreciated them but never agreed to the zionistic ideas.
The following is the point I thought is a reason (although not primary or heard from our gedolim), along with many non hareidi:
Hareidim, being anti state, feel that it’s the left that created this mess, which eventually led to massive killing of Israeli citizens and abhorrent behavior from the government, including heresy. It’s the obligation for the children of the ones that were pro government to clean the mess that their parties (the left), have created.
Meaning (me speaking): we’d rather have worked out a deal in the beginning of the state, which would have been preceded by a different ideation, other than nationalism, with the neighbors. Please understand that I’m talking historical that the Arabs started the main riots and killing (including Hebron), after tens of thousands ascended to Israel with desires to take land. I DON’T EVER condone what the ym”shm Arabs did; the big question and debate was if we’re really better off being a state and moreover a nationalistic state that requires so much military or a shared area to live together and build together!
In an event where hareidi would constitute a majority or if there’s NO way out due to situations I’d rather not spell out r”l, everyone needs to take out arms to fight for the existence of the people in the holy land and it’s communities.
Does this make any sense? Can it be “at least”, debated?
“Whoever enlists, the state will do everything to make it easier for him and help him”
This is a LIE!! This is being proposed with bad intentions. It’s part of a larger plan (since the early days of Zionism) to reduce “Jewishness” to nationality and remove Hashem and HIs Torah from the Jewish People. This must be opposed.
Replying to “thehardtruth”;
“I have to side with lapid”
Can you please look up for me Lapid’s “military service”?
@ccb45 we cant go back in time. its very hard to end a state. its even harder to dramatically change the state. not taking responsibility of participating in state issue because ‘it wasnt our fault’ is simply immature.
Lapid and his father before him have always hated the chareidim.
Please don’t fall for this balatant electioneering from Lapid, who refused to join a unity government after Oct 7, and who through proteksia did his army “service” by editing army magazine and didn’t even complete basic training.
And he has the chutspa to claim morality over army service?
Only the hesder rabbanim, who are a small percentage of Torah yidden hold that milchemes mitzva applies today, however none of our gedolim ever sanctioned that view, neither recently nor in the previous generation (who would have doubled down on that view further had they seen how ultra-secular the army and supreme court have become today). and you know that if bochurim would go to jail rather than be drafted so yes this is just stirring hate to gain election publicity.
We cannot imagine what terrible anxiety and suffering the parents of children in the IDF are going through and it is true mesiras nefesh that can’t easily be compared, but please don’t channel this imbalance with turning on the yeshiva world, the delicate status quo held since the founding of the state, and give succour to this argument which will only allow the miltant secularists to gain power at Torah’s expense.
Lapid is an animal!! No we’re not going to the army because it’s indoctrinating us with left wing Zionist propaganda. A state that has atheists like Golda Meir and Teddy Hertzel Yimach Shemo v’Zichro as their national heroes is not one worth risking one’s life for.
@5475
I am not saying I believe everything lapid says to be correct of even that his intentions are even the tiniest bit pure.
Are chareidims blood any more pure that they should sit out while their brothers sacrifice their lives?
A better point would also be that the soldiers most saught after throughout tenach were those most connected to hashem. If chareidim believe they are the most holy ones-even more so reason to send them to the front lines.
@thehardtruth
My comment was obviously not regarding the rational not to serve, but you for sure know that the environment in the the army is highly secular in & out, and please don’t make the silly & lazy comparison to tenach era, you can look up in the חומש the guidelines for serving…
@Yanky1998
i do agree that going into the army means a lot of issue, but:
my question is: what happens with ‘lo saamod al dam reycha’?
Hard for me to see how to avoid that issue;
I also saw a tshuva which quoted the Gem in B.B. regarding the Talmidey Chahomim
not having to pay for the city fence, since they dont require protection
I am not sure if that is really an argument to pater from Lo Saamod;
in any case , the tshuva also mentioned , that if the Chachomim demand the fence, and therefore show they need it for their protection, they have to pay;
I did see a video in the kikar shabat site, One of the very known Poskim was visting a wounded soldier in the hospital when the alarms for incoming rockets went off, and he quickly ran to the protected area of the hospital;
Also: was Dovid Hamelech not a talmid chochom? and he surely took part in a lot of wars;
sensibleyid
I hear you but there’s so much to write. I just know that It’ll be non-popular so I can just put some pointers.
Torah Military values vs Government Military values.
Torah immunity to kill vs Government immunity to kill.
Torah law vs International law.
Soldiers feeling comfortable to strike, using the “following orders”, when they don’t feel comfortable with it. There are MANY that are speaking out on their own will…
Religious freedom vs Army-halacha-compromises, when not required.
And some more…
I have no problem btw to hear from anyone regarding any of these issues but I feel all would apply to me! Please help me understand otherwise.