![elal[1].jpg](http://yeshivaworld.b-cdn.net/wp-content/uploads/2006/12/elal[1].thumbnail.jpg)
While El Al is trying to minimize damages with the Haredi public after flying on Shabbat in an attempt to return passengers who were stranded abroad because of the workers strike in Israel earlier this month, an El Al aircraft was seen flying over Tel Aviv this Saturday.
El Al announced that the flight was a test flight with no passengers and was conducted after the aircraft underwent maintenance work at Ben-Gurion Airport. The rabbinical committee for Shabbat has rejected that explanation and is continuing to call for a boycott of the national airline saying that “Shabbat is Shabbat”.
El Al announced that the flight was a test flight with no passengers and was conducted after the aircraft underwent maintenance work at Ben-Gurion Airport. The rabbinical committee for Shabbat has rejected that explanation and is continuing to call for a boycott of the national airline saying that “Shabbat is Shabbat”.
About three week ago, after the conclusion of the workers strike in Israel, several El Al aircraft took off during Shabbat in order to catch up with the delays caused by the strike and to return passengers who were stranded in different airports around the world. But the Haredim were not interested in the excuses. In response to the Shabbat flights, prominent rabbis announced that they would recommend their followers to boycott the airline.Although waves of that storm have not ceased, an El Al aircraft was spotted flying over Tel Aviv on Saturday at around 1:30 p.m. and was photographed by a visitor to the Ramat-Gan National Park as the plane was coming in for landing at Ben Gurion Airport. Ynet
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42 Responses
finish them off!! lrts go where’s the kol korah??????
How does YW Editor have a picture of that flight on Shabbos!? Somethings rotten here…
(Okay, start flaming this post. For the others, congrats on your humor.)
everybody is talking about elal, what about egged they drive on shabbat throughout the country. we should boycott them too.!
WHY NOT BOYCOTT THE ISRAELI ELECTRIC COMPANY THEY ALSO OPERATE ON SHABBOS
MAYBE THE FRUM ISRAELI’S SHOULD START USING A GENERATOR THE WHOLE WEEK
HOW COULD YOU BELIVE THE MECHALEL SHABBOS THAT TOOK THE PICTURE ON SHABBOS. EVEN IF IT’S A DIGITAL CAMERA THE DATE COULD BE PLAYED AROUND WITH.
LUZ UP ALREADY TAKE A SAFER AND GO LEARN DON’T WORRY SO MUCH ABOUT ELAL THEY’LL GET WHAT THEY DESERVE FROM HASHEM.
egged is next
i think it’s disgusting to question the gedolai hador.our job is to follow what they say,and it doesnt matter if it makes sense or not.this is the foundation of faith.where would clal yisrael be without the guidence of our gedolim.so instead of asking all your question’s you could make a kiddush hashem by trusting the gedolim with your lives. happy chanuka
To joseph. Nobody said that that picture was the one taken on shabbos, its just a picture of an ElAl plane.
“this is the foundation of faith”
Where does it say this is the foundation of our faith?
I just read the whole article. They say it was a test flight after maintenance was performed. So what’s the big fuss? And before you answer that chilul Shabbos is chilul Shabbos no matter what (which of course it is), well, it has never been news that they perform maintenance on their planes on Shabbos. Yet, that has never been seen as reason for a boycott. Why? B/c the sevarah behind the boycott is that it’s not proper for a Jewish airline to be conducting business on Shabbos. This flight is no different.
So much of the energy generated over this entire debacle is wasted. The focus is skewed. The issue is not the fact that El Al flew on Shabbos. It’s rather WHY. (This can be compared to the medical model in which it’s preferred – and more profitable – to treat symptoms rather than the cure.) The root issue here is the wholesale disconnection from Jewish identity. Rabbi Lau once said the only reason we ask such a silly question as “Who is a Jew?” is because we’ve forgotten “What is a Jew”? We can all make a fabulous cyber-tumult over this, which gets the adrenalin of opinion flowing, not to mention the smug self-righteousness that of accompanies such discussions. Or – we can acknowledge this as another manifestation of our communal sickness and get back to focusing on the cure. Reactions, boycotts, threats, and indignation will do little if there is not a corresponding and effective effort to redemptively touch the souls of the ones who made the foolish decision to fly on Shabbos.
To Gavriel: Of all the posts I’ve ever read on YW yours is the best. You seem to be the only intelligent person out there. Keep it up!
Friend of mine just told me that reb elyashiv said tmrw is the big day for decision. So we shall find out tmrw if there wil b a big kol koreh/boycott, or wil el al sign an agreement, and everythin wil b back to normal. (Going off de point slightly, there may be another strike next week, so that wil b el al’s first test!!!)
All you guys who keep going on about, lets boycott egged etc. Your all talking nonsense. Egged, elal, and every other company are mechalel shabbos, so what is this fuss all about with elal? The answer is, because they officially flew on shabbos after they officially announced a couple of years ago that they wont. Do you think they dont clean the planes or sell tickets on shabbos, of course they do but as long as a public mechalel shabbos isnt happening, the gedoilim are happy. Same with egged, in jerusalem and b brak they dont drive around but everywhere else or cleaning the busses, thats not the end of the world because ITS NOT A PUBLIC chillul shabbos.
TO LIPA,,
THE BLOGS THAT ARE RECOMENDING TO BOYCOTT EGGED OR ANY OTHER COMPANY ARE ALL JUST MAKING FUN OF THE ELAL BOYCOTT – IT’S TRYING TO SHOW HOW ALMOST ALL THE MAJOR ISRAELI CORPORATIONS ARE UNFORTUNATELY MECHALEL SHABBOS AND NOBODY IS RECOMENDING BOYCOTING THEM ,
THE REASON THEY’RE PICKING ON ELAL IS BECAUSE ELAL SIGNED A AGREEMENT A FEW YEARS AGO THAT IT WON’T FLY SHABBOS, AND NOW THAT IT DID FLY (SHABBOS)THEY’RE OFENDED THAT ELAL DIDN’T KEEP UP TO THEIR PROMISE SO THEY’RE COMING OUT WITH THIS WHOLE BOYCOTT THING, WHICH PROBABLY WON’T LAST TO LONG, ALL ELAL NEEDS TO DO IS TO LOWER THEIR PRICES A LITTLE AND EVERYBODY WILL COME BACK TO THEM
Dude, take a deep breathand try to grasp at least a glimpse of reality
El Al aircraft have flown over my house in Jerusalem every shabbat at 3pm for over 20 years on the Eilat-Ben Gurion run. Fact. Uvda. One of our humourous Shabbat events, when the children were younger, was to throw stones at the aircraft and scream “Mechalel Shabbos” as loudly as possible, as if they could hear us in a jet overhead. This passes for humor in Yerushalayim
El Al aircraft fly all day long over the hotels/beach area of TLV every shabbat in more number than my children can count anymore, and have for at least 20 years. Fact. Uvda.
You write as if this comes as a revelation to the residents of Lakewood and Flatbush, and some new event. It has been a shabbat tradition for over 20 years.
El Al established Sun D’Or subsidiary to utilize its empty fleet as shabbat charters to Eilat and European destinations over 20 years ago, and has always flown on shabbat under the subsidiary while owned by the government. Sun D’Or continues to be the most profitable venture in the El Al family, as most Israelis prefer flying on shabbat without the chareidim. One cannot blame them.
The ignorance of the American frum community to what really goes on here knows no bounds. It is truly amazing that you hold us up as some Jewish Disneyland in your eyes rather than a living, breathing country.
El Al is not the Airline of Israel. It was privatized and sold 3 years ago, and is simply a stock listed on the TASE. Go buy some shares if you want. It is no more a national airline than Virgin Atlantic or Continental. Why would the charedim agree to switch to Continental or British Airways when they also fly 2 flights every shabbat out of TLV?
On the other hand, Israir is a small private airline, and does not fly its aircraft on shabbat. One can therefore contend that they are truly shomer shabbat –but that can only last so long as they remain a 4 aircraft airline. At some point the inevitable costs of logistics of grounding your fleet for 28% of the week (including erev shabbat and hlaf of motzei shabbat until airworthy again) destroys an aitline.
Gush dan you are really saying good. eneough with threats of boycotts and lets move on in life
wow. that was detailed. yeah, I don’t think anyone is gonna have anything to say after that. but I’m curious…if this is the case, GushDan, then why is everyone suddenly making a big deal outta this now?
Gushgdan, I don’t remember seeing your name on the list of Gedolei Yisroel, when did you join?? Why can’t we all stop asking questions and simply have “Emunah P’shuta??” When any of us are on the level of Reb Chaim Kanievsky or Reb Elyashiv, we can voice our opposition but as long as we all have internet I garuntee you that we are not joining their ranks. If the Gedolim felt that we should boycott Egged then so be it but right now they have reasons to come out strongly against ElAl and we should all be accepting that and willing to follow the word of our gedolim which I’m sorry to disaapoint many of you, are ALOT smarter and knowledgeable than any of us. So stop coming up with excuses and lists of all the mechallelei shabbos in Eretz Yisrael and start working on your Emunas Chachamim.
GushDan: You made a very good point but….. Varft nisht dee shteiner ofen Shabbos. Zei zenen muksah!!!
GUSH DAN, YOU ARE 100% RIGHT!!! WE CAN NOT STOP THEM FROM ANYTGHING ANYWAY….SO LETS MOVE ON!!
TO GUSH DAN YOUR RIGHT
DON’T LISTEN TO mam Says: WE ARE NOT HASHEM’S POLICE MEN, HASHEM COULD MANAGE ON HIS OWN, WHEN IT SAYS ”HOCHEACH TOCHIACH ES AMISECHA” IT ALSO SAYS ” VELO SISA ALAV CHETE” WE JUST HAVE TO GIVE MUSAR IF THE PERPRETRAITOR LISTNES GOOD – IF NOT HE’L GET HIS PUNISHMENT FROM HASHEM – IT’S NOT OUR JOB TO PUNISH
PD87, you can move on if you’d like but a true Yid walks in the ways of our leaders; not the path that he/she feels is most convenient or fits his/her liking.
“Why can’t we all stop asking questions and simply have “Emunah P’shuta??”
Emunah Pshutah is reserved for the Ribbono Shel Olam, not for any basar va’dam, no matter how great in Torah.
“If the Gedolim felt that we should boycott Egged then so be it but right now they have reasons to come out strongly against ElAl”
Oh please, it’s not as though they are constantly thinking about which mechalelei Shabbos to boycott. What happened here is what happens with all these things. Some kanoim got it into their head to make an example of El Al, and they pressured the gedolim to sign on. Unfortunately, the signatures of gedolim on kol koreis is not worth much, unless you know the exact circumstances of how and why they signed.
TO mam Says:
IF ELAL TICKETS WOULD BE $200 CHEAPER THEN IT’S COMPETITORS WOULD YOU FLY ELAL OR PAY $200 NOT TO?
Kishke – perhaps you’d do well to read my response to you in another thread.
It seems as though you have not done so as of yet.
To quote: “Unfortunately, the signatures of gedolim on kol koreis is not worth much”
It’s statements like these that make me want to bury my head in shame.
Gush Dan doesn’t even acknowledge the fact that the Gedolim of “Eretz Yisroel” have spoken while kishke discounts their credibility entirely. And all of you think that our problems are a result of the leftists or the Neturei Karta? Consider this my kiyum of “Hocheiach Tochiach es Amisecha”.
Kishke, your post is the most ignorant and arrogant statement I’ve read on this whole matter. congratulations.
Anyone who truly wants to have some understanding of “why el al”, and not the other mechalel Shabbos, would realize that in any on going conflict (which unfortunately this is) you must pick your battles based on what is winnable. A boycott of egged for example is not winnable.
The following issues are irrelevant:
el al is now private.
el al is mechalel shabbos in other ways.
why not boycott continental.
El Al signed an agreement not to fly these routes on Shabbos. But just like the Isreali gov’t and the infamous “status quo”, they see that agreements with the Datiim can be abrogated at will without any penalty. So this is another example of stepping all over us.
But here, you are dealing with a matter where the frum community has economic muscle to back it up. Hence the boycott.
Is that so hard to understand??
Yes, if you don’t want to.
And I don’t believe that they will get everyone to fly by lowering the prices. I have more faith in the principles of our community. I also question the idea that El Al can succeed without the Hareidim, and I object to the snide comments by Gushdan. Frankly I hope I never fly sitting next to you, Gushdan.
Who are these people asking for boycotts for Egged or the Electric Company?
Probably the same ones who keep on stirring up the EL AL debate with no real knowledge of the situation nor any Halachic credibility.
If people could only be more careful with Mitzvos they have a commandment to keep, rather than shouting at everybody else for not keeping them, the world would be a better place.
Sheryl dear, My very close relatives (who are not very wealthy to say the least) stand to lose over 2000 dollars but are willing to do that and forfeit their ElAl tickets just to follow the words of the gedolim!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Some people I know asked ElAl for a refund for their tickets and received a full refund. I’m not sure they need to loose 2000 dollars.
“It’s statements like these that make me want to bury my head in shame.”
Yeah? Well, it’s facts like these that make me want to bury *my* head in shame.
Dreamer: I now read your earlier comments, and have nothing to say other than that you are either very naive or are pretending to be naive about how these things work.
Kishke wrote: “Emunah Pshutah is reserved for the Ribbono Shel Olam, not for any basar va’dam, no matter how great in Torah.”
However, Chazal openly say “ES (i.e., with) Hashem Elokecho tirro – l’rabos Talmidei Chachomim” (English: Chazal instruct us to fear Talmidei Chachomim, similarly to the way we fear Hashem.)
Yehudi Echad,
I didn’t comment previously on this thread, because I came to the painful conclusion that ostensibly frum Torah- Jews have a startling lack of Derech Eretz and a not even a modicum of Hachna’ah for Gedolim.
I don’t take these YW commentors as necessarily representative of the frum world, but like you, I am beginning to wonder if the seamy side to Klal Yisrael has nothing to do with NK or other such obvious aberrations from the norm. Naturally, it feels good to curse and shriek about the NK; at the same time, we squirm at even a hint of the need for self- examination of ways in which we ourselves do not give Nachas to HKB”H.
So thank you for your comment- I second it.
In order to concretize my own reaction to what I have seen written here, I would like to take upon myself to strengthen my family’s Derech Eretz and Emunas Chachomim at our Friday night table, through story and discussion.
I would be interested in seeing others’ ideas to address this topic in our families and communities.
FF: What does yirah have to do with emunah?
kishke: it says “v’Yaaminu b’Hashem u’v’Moshe avdo” (they believed in Hashem and in His servant Moshe)
GUSH DAN!!!!!!
FYI
ISRAIR DOES HAVE FLIGHTS ON SHABBOS???????????????
you guys don’t have anything better what to do but to comment each other . pick up a telephone and meet each other or go back to beis medrash and learn a little bit……………….
FF: They believed in Moshe b/c of what they saw on the Yam. Where does that say emunah peshutah?
To KISHKE:
“Emunah P’shuta is reserved only for the Ribono shel Olam”.
Well, he is using his reservation to have you listen to “el hashofet asher yihyeh bayomin haheim” – the Torah sages of every genaration (see beggining of Parshas Shoftim, Rashi there V 9, See also Sefer HaChinuch Mitzva 496 “MiShorshei HaMitzva…”).