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To ARSo
Why have you stayed away? Let me start by noting that the Lubavitchers no longer contribute. Initially, they were replaced by Shimon Katz and Yedl who are both decent guys. They wrote that the Chabad beliefs are all nonsense, but we should dismiss them because only a handful of Lubavitchers actually believe them which is total baloney. They realized that we weren’t buying that nonsense, so they disappeared to be replaced by LA Boy and rescue. To their credit, they don’t deny that Chabad as a whole, rejects the concept of punishment, but what they’re saying is that they think that this is a valid position within Judaism, which of course is insane.
To rescue
Could you elaborate on the contradictions and technicalities that I’m guilty of because it’s hard to address generalities. BTW, are you Shomer Torah Umitzvohs? From your posts, it seems like you do whatever feels right to you.
“Let me quote the Rabbi of the Chabad shul I attend,”…Of course that’s insanity,…All the statements coming out of Chabad are lunacy, but they’re based on the central lie of Chabad which is Schneersohn’s Kefirah that all Jews will be redeemed by Moshiach.
“Until there’s a Psak, the Chabad religion is not officially idolatrous and therefore I am permitted to Daven there and eat their food. Moreover, I get along very well with the Rabbis.”If you truly believe that it’s idolatrous etc. Then why are you waiting for an official Psak? Either you don’t actually believe it or you do but you can’t be bothered to drive a little bit further to daven with a minyan so you’re making excuses that there’s no official Psak yet so it’s ok. Btw there was a Psak from the talmidi hagra and over the last 250+ years there’s been other groups also that paskened that chabad is a cult that chassidus in general is a cult etc etc. Who would you actually accept a Psak from because if that’s what you’re looking for you have it already. Is malkiel saying chabad is not invited to the siyum hashas because they’re not part of klal yisreal enough for you? If I get along with Christians am I allowed to join them also for their services?
Like I’ve written before, it seems the only person you know anything about in chabad is manis Friedman and the rabbi of the shul you go to and both have said things that sound like kefira to you but because no bais din in today’s day and age has officially made a Psak against them and you obviously refuse to accept the Psak din of other battei dinim over the last two centuries you convinced yourself that it’s ok to go there since they have a minyan even though the rabbi believes in things that are kefira in your opinion. Ironically you remind me of the not frum people you say chabad is not helping. A lot of them have “feelings” for God and they’re “religious in their heart” so there’s no need for them to manifest it into the physical by doing actual mitzvos etc. So you believe chabad is kefira but it’s too convenient for you so just thinking it and writing about it here on YWN is enough for you but in practice you’ll keep eating their food when traveling and even daven in one of their shuls on a daily basis purely for convenience…AAQ, you don’t get earlier than Rishonim in mussar, and, for example, the Orchos Tzaddikim and Chovos Halevavos don’t focus on punishment at all.
I have no problem responding the fact is that in general chassidus was based on knowing about God and how God cares about us etc. While mussar was based on how bad we are. It could be things have changed over time but those are what the original sifrei chassidus and mussar were based on.
In general mussar is based on sor may’ra and chassidus is based on assay tov.
One is about correcting what you’ve done wrong the other is about becoming a better person and then naturally you’ll correct what you’ve done wrong.We are meant to fear gehinnom but we are not meant to live in fear of gehinnom. There’s a mitzvah to love God and there’s also a mitzvah to fear God. The question is which one are you putting more focus on… In my siddur in the berachos before shema it mentions loving God more than it mentions fearing him so that’s what I like focusing on
Coincidentally this is the perfect time of year for this conversation. The reason a lot of people hate pesach is because of all the chumros they grew up with so when they grow up and have their own home they go the opposite extreme and instead of keeping some chumros they just go to a pesach program where they don’t have to do anything and they eat everything offered there…
I have no problem with believing in gehinnom and how scary it is but there are more positive mammorei chazal that I like to focus on morerescue is already up to criticising hazal ….
who knows whats next ….
what you write comparing chassidus and missar, like “In general mussar is based on sor may’ra and chassidus is based on assay tov.”, is TOTAL nonsense.
both types of seforim deal equivalently with both aspects. Noam Elimelech, probably the most universal teach, influencer, and learned sefer in Chassidus, is fully entrenched in the “sir me’ruh” emphasis. Mesilas Yeshurim, arguably the most learned missar classic sefer today, is fully entrenched in the “aseh tov” emphasis.
The whole distinction is foolish and could only be said by someone who hasn’t learned either seforim. I mean, look at sefer HaTanya, which is well invested in “sir me’ruh”…
since I’ve joined this conversation, let me be do the wonderful mitzvoh of being moche the disgusting commentor @rescue and his decrepit words laced with kefira and disgrace.
I appreciate those who are smart enough to ignore him and not answer his antisemitic stupidity
LA boy: “I have no problem responding the fact is that in general chassidus was based on knowing about God and how God cares about us etc. While mussar was based on how bad we are. It could be things have changed over time but those are what the original sifrei chassidus and mussar were based on.
In general mussar is based on sor may’ra and chassidus is based on assay tov.
One is about correcting what you’ve done wrong the other is about becoming a better person and then naturally you’ll correct what you’ve done wrong.”Absolute and total garbage! But it’s not your chiddush. It’s the same garbage Lubavich has been spouting since before I’ve known anything about them.
Which “original” sefer mussar is based on how bad we are, and not on improving ourselves?
You know what happens when people live in an echo chamber and they deal with no adversity. They become delusional and weak get over it
To the group
Let me share a story. There was a Chassidishe Gadol who lived on the Lower East Side. I was his dentist until he passed away in 1995. In 1998 his grandson, who’s Bobov, took over his Shteller. We became friends. Occasionally, I spend Shabbos on the LES. When I do I go to that Shul for Mincha Maariv and the Rabbi speaks during Shalosh Seudos. Several months ago, I complimented him, “When you mention Litvish Rabbis like the Gaon you speak with the same reverence as you do when quoting Chassidishe Rebbes.” He responded, “Torah is Torah.” This is how I was raised. This concept of Chassidish Torah versus Litvish Torah is a canard. There is only one Torah for all Jews. Now I spend all my time on Gemara but when I was finding my way I focused on Mussar. I don’t recall ever reading a statement about hell. Mussar teaches a person to recognize how the Yetzer hora is playing with our heads and it presents strategies in dealing with him. That’s it.
To yankel berel
LA boy and rescue are lost souls. That’s why they’re siding with Chabad.
LA Boy seems to talk plain rubbish
I cannot speak for rav malkiel re habad & siyum hashas
but – between ‘not inviting habad’ to the siyum , and ‘not being part’ of klal yisrael
between those two , there is a huge distance
can’t imagine in my wildest dreams rav malkiel paskening that a get with habad witnesses will result in mamzerut
are they ‘part of’ ? …. yes
are they … ‘THE valid spokespeople’ …. for our age old judaism ? ….. no
what qwerty is saying — as long as their edut is not turning subsequent children into halachik mamzerim
their presence counts for a halachik minyan
that does not mean they do not continuously spout their absolutely unacceptable opinions as if they would constitute authentic judaism
and that also does not mean that calling out those opinions is somehow a contradiction to counting them as part of a minyan ….
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.LA boy, can you explain why the Arizal said that one is to learn sifrei mussar all year round? He’s quoted in the Ba’er Heitev 603:1 (as well as in the Mishna Berura there, but of course, that’s not a source for you).
The Baal Hatanya in Hilchos Talmud Torah also says to learn sifrei mussar. Why?
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