Maricopa county audit

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  • #1975291
    jackk
    Participant

    There has now been testimony from a observer of the recount who says :
    ” I watched the GOP’s Arizona election audit. It was worse than you think. Cyber Ninjas is hunting for bamboo fibers and cheese dust.”
    “I expected it to be unconventional. But it was so much worse than that. In more than a decade working on elections, audits and recounts across the country, I’ve never seen one this mismanaged.”

    “I was stunned to see spinning conveyor wheels, whizzing hundreds of ballots past “counters,” who struggled to mark, on a tally sheet, each voter’s selection for the presidential and Senate races. They had only a few seconds to record what they saw. Occasionally, I saw a counter look up, realize they missed a ballot and then grab the wheel to stop it. This process sets them up to make so many mistakes, I kept thinking. Humans are terrible at tedious, repetitive tasks; we’re especially bad at counting. That’s why, in all the other audits I’ve seen, bipartisan teams follow a tallying method that allows for careful review and inspection of each ballot, followed by a verification process. I’d never seen an audit use contraptions to speed up the process.

    Speed doesn’t necessarily pose a problem if the audit has a process for catching and correcting mistakes. But it didn’t. Each table had three volunteers tallying the ballots, and their tally sheets were considered “done” as long as two of the three tallies matched, and the third was off by no more than two ballots. The volunteers only recounted if their tally sheets had three or more errors — a threshold they stuck to, no matter how many ballots a stack contained, whether it was 50 or 100. This allowed for a shocking amount of error. Some table managers told the counters to go back and recount when there were too many errors; other table managers just instructed the counters to fix their “math mistakes.” At no point did anyone track how many ballots they were processing at their station, to ensure that none got added or lost during handling.”

    #1975380
    Health
    Participant

    Yesr -“The specific thing you mentioned about changing ballot dates was her not understanding how the system works and ignorance of what she was being asked to do”

    You keep posting the DemonCrats Lies!
    She wasn’t claming they told her to change Ballot Dates, but to change Mailing Dates!
    Do you Not understand the difference?
    Or do you think that we Republicans can be Fooled very easily?!?

    “A Detroit city worker who was assigned to the election has sworn in an affidavit that she and others were ordered to change mailing dates on ballots and observed supervisors “coaching” voters to cast ballots for Democrat Joe Biden.”

    And of course, there is Nothing wrong with coaching the Voters?!?
    It’s obvious that the DemonCrats have turned the US into a Banana State!
    So Stop believing all the Lies from the DemonCrats and the Media.

    #1975553
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Still waiting on my question:
    If Trump is so convinced he won, why won’t he pay for any recounts or audits?

    #1975570
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Coffee,

    One chooses to believe whatever. It does not prevent them from reading fiction and understanding it as fiction. If you understand fiction as non-fiction and non-fiction as fiction, than your belief systems are not working properly. Media should be read as media. Ideally, one with a strong foundation of truth is able to read all lines of media and get the same picture. It is not hard to pick out the narrative from any attempts at controlling said narrative. If someone only reads one type of media, it points to their inability to pick the details from the ideas. And that person is likely being played by the very standard s/he claims to oppose.

    Science is the same thing. If one can only agree with the few scientists on a given topic, That most likely points to a deficiency in knowing how to read the sciences. For example, the difference between the subjects and the systems. Science always shakes up our beliefs of scientific concepts. It never touches our sense of purpose etc.

    Your statement that the media gets paid to report or not report a certain way, is completely absurd. The marketing aspect of media is around since before you were born. And independent journalism was never threatened by it until the modern day. You could thank your super media conglomerates for changing that. You live in a bizarre world, if nation altering realities are being held from the public on the basis of a few Benjamins. And facts today are easily verifiable without the mainstream media.

    #1975663
    Health
    Participant

    NoMesorah -“If Trump is so convinced he won, why won’t he pay for any recounts or audits?”

    First before I answer – How many SN’S do you have?

    1. If there is any objection to the Certification of that State, most States require a Recount or audit by law.
    So why should Trump pay for them?
    I know because you said so – because you have TDS!

    2. If the problem is in the Computer system, it’s very hard to get the passwords.
    As far as I know, Arizona hasn’t gotten them yet.
    So Trump would be wasting his money, if the courts don’t allow him access!

    #1975675
    Yserbius123
    Participant

    @Health Clearly Republicans can be fooled easily else we wouldn’t be having this conversation. Like you’re still convinced of something despite there being a near-total lack of evidence for it.

    I’ve said it before, out of all the election judges, workers, watchers, etc. the strongest evidence is witnesses are a woman who was literally drunk and belligerent when testifying under oath and Jessy Jacob who couldn’t even give a time and date for what she thinks she saw. If that’s enough to convince you, then I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn.

    #1975747
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Health,

    They found the deleted files. Turns out these cyber experts copied the file onto the wrong format. Haste makes waste. And blokes make hoax.

    #1975754
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Health,

    I’m not so sure about this. But I think that in most states it depends how close it is. Trump asked for a recount in every state that would say for it. As I recall, his campaign had to pay a fraction of the cost of the recount in Wisconsin. And they called off the objection before it was finished. But they still took it to court. It was a puzzling sequence for people like me who really did not care much.

    Independent groups pay for audits and recounts all the time. Some supposedly independent group conducted their own audit on the 2000 election in Florida. Then some other groups joined in. It took two years until they reached a consensus. And I do not think anybody besides those groups really cared about the results. (They found that Bush won the state by getting out the vote.)

    Trump raised enough money in November and December to recount every state. His next Monte was to get a bunch of lawyers to put together flimsy cases in various courts. And almost all those lawyers were working for free. Hmmmm. I wonder what those millions were for?

    #1975763
    jackk
    Participant

    This audit is the gift that never ends.
    Arizona Secretary of State Katie Hobbs has told Maricopa County to decommission its voting machines that were touched by cyber ninjas. They can no longer be trusted.

    #1975788
    Health
    Participant

    NoMesorah – “But I think that in most states it depends how close it is. Trump asked for a recount in every state that would say for it.”

    So the reason Wisconsin was the county that the state paid for found No fraud – so why should Trump pay for the other counties?
    Obviously the Fraud was in the computer systems!

    #1975800
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Health,

    If fraud is a given, then yes. Just a little niggling point. When did it become a fact that there was any fraud? All your posts – to many to count – point out how there could have should have must have been fraud. Nothing to say that the fraud actually occurred. Or how it influenced the results. But I really do not care about that. Just explain why Trump raised all that money and did not use it on overturning the elections.

    #1975793
    Health
    Participant

    Yesr -“I’ve said it before, out of all the election judges, workers, watchers, etc”

    They put all watchers where they weren’t in view of the Ballots.
    So that in itself is a violation.
    The claim was Covid-19.
    So what should been done – less workers counting and allowed the watchers in.

    So all this evidence should require a Federal Investigation.
    I know – the feds are too busy looking for Crimes against Trump and his lawyer!

    #1975822
    se2015
    Participant

    Speaking of niggling points, I have a niggling feeling that Health is a parody account.

    #1975857
    Health
    Participant

    NoMesorah -“Nothing to say that the fraud actually occurred”

    Well that’s because you only listen to the Fake News!
    All the right wing sites say that there was Fraud.
    Go watch Lindel’s Documentary and if you find any objections to the proofs there – I’m willing to discuss it with you.

    #1975896
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Health,

    I am discussing the prompts that you post. That is my role interest. You are not alleging any actual fraud. Just the availability of it.

    #1975966
    Yserbius123
    Participant

    @Health So what you are saying is that you have no evidence of voting fraud and nobody saw any fraud happening. So what is it exactly that has you so convinced that it happened? Because as far as I can tell, Biden won the election like 99% of the world has been saying. So unless you have some really strong evidence to suggest otherwise, I’m going to stick with what the evidence shows.

    #1976055

    Not trying to start another endless unproductive debate on the election fraud…”-sigh.
    Jackk, a few points.-who exactly was the “observer”? Probably an important detail. Even if he is correct (and I have no idea whether that’s the case) there is no statistical reason to assume an errant recount would result in skewed results for one candidate over the other. Definitely not 10’s of thousands in one direction. Besides there is a lot more to audit than recounting the ballots.
    Want to discuss what shockingly hasn’t been discussed yet. The Windham NH audit. Because what they are finding there is insane. This from *Fox news*-check that, it’s actually from CNN!-“The stakes, in terms of election outcomes, are low: A recount found that decades-old machines in Windham, a town north of Boston, undercounted votes for four Republican state legislative candidates by about 300 votes and showed 99 more votes for a Democratic candidate than had actually been cast…” Now this applied to a full scale hands Trump the presidency. Not saying we should do that now, obviously not, (besides for the fact I don’t think the constitution would allow…) but can you guys now understand why I want this entire election audited???

    #1976067
    jackk
    Participant

    Tvap,
    I take what she says with a grain of salt.
    The point is that her eyewitness testimony is just as valid as the “affadavits” that caused republicans to demand recounts,a whole new election, and a mantra that the election was stolen.
    I have posted this before. The republicans don’t get to decide that they are the only ones who get to question elections.

    #1976089
    Health
    Participant

    Yesr & NoM – Just because I didn’t mention any fraud, doesn’t mean that there wasn’t any.
    Like I wrote previously -“Go watch Lindel’s Documentary and if you find any objections to the proofs there – I’m willing to discuss it with you.”
    You can believe what you want, but if you’re not willing to even hear the Fraud, your opinion doesn’t count!
    It’s sad that you will believe the Fake News Media, just because it’s in tuned with your political beliefs.

    Do you also believe that Israel is the Aggressor?
    Well you should, because the same Fake News that you listen to believes that!
    So why do you Believe that Biden won the 2020 election?!?

    #1976220

    Jackk, care to respond to the second half of my post?

    #1976267
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Health,

    You raise many excellent points.. Allow me to respond.

    1) Since you did not mention any fraud, I will wait until you do to make some sense of it.

    2) I will watch Lindel’s documentary once I get acquainted with his past opinions on close elections. It will help me to put his take in context. Please point me in the direction of his opinions on the ’00 and ’04 elections. At the very least enlighten me to his expert analysis of the fairness of the ’16 elections.

    3) Media has very little influence on my beliefs. I am willing to hear about the fraud. In fact, this back and forth started because I noticed that you only speak of possible fraud. Not actual fraud.

    4) Now for my real question. Why did Trump need all that money?

    #1976399
    Health
    Participant

    NoMesorah -“At the very least enlighten me to his expert analysis of the fairness of the ’16 elections.”

    I have no idea about his opinions on 2016 elections.
    I found out about him after the 2020 election.
    If you have a Video of him talking about 2016 election – you can share it.

    “Why did Trump need all that money?”

    IDK what money you’re talking about.
    If you’re claiming that Trump took money and didn’t use it for it’s intended purpose, then it’s up to you to prove that!

    #1976455

    Absolutely incredible what is coming out of Windham NH, and now Georgia. No wonder Democrats were so afraid of the audits. At this moment i’ll stop short of outright claiming the election was stolen, as the amount of votes proven fraudulent haven’t exceeded the margin, but that might possibly change very soon.

    #1976476
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Torahvaluesoverparty,

    Your reaction should be how can the Republicans do this even better in ’24. Think forward to the future. Not backward to closed chapters.

    #1976477
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Health,

    Trump raised hundreds of millions of dollars after the elections for political purposes. If he was convinced that he got more votes than Biden, he would have used that money on recounts and audits. Instead, it is going to his next and current campaign.

    #1976565

    N0MESORAH
    – I’m not exactly actively involved in the republican party, so doesn’t really matter what I’m focused on.
    -If we wouldn’t concentrate on finding out what happened this past November, and how to fix the wrong that was done, doing better next cycle would be pointless.
    -and after the republican party being labeled as insurrectionists for 6 months, I think it’s important that we collectively understand who were the true “insurrectionists”.

    #1976569
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Torahvaluesoverparty,

    What people focus on, becomes their reality, or sub reality. Either way, control your own consciousness.

    Nothing will be fixed. Whatever happened last time, will happen next time.

    Rigging an election is not an insurrection. Even running for office while the incumbent runs his campaign into the ground, and his political career into jail, is also not an insurrection.

    #1976570
    Health
    Participant

    NoMesorah -“If he was convinced that he got more votes than Biden, he would have used that money on recounts and audits. Instead, it is going to his next and current campaign.”

    First of all, I’m not his advisor.
    Obviously his advisors told him – it’s better to work on the future, than work on the past.
    Being that as time goes on – it’s unlikely to change whatever happened!

    2nd of all, the way I understand it, most of the Fraud was in the computer system.
    Look how Dominion is fighting in Arizona.
    The best strategy is to avoid those Complicated Computer systems.
    Work on getting the States to simplify how to collect votes.
    I remember the manual machines that just gave out a number for every candidate!

    #1976609
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Health,

    Well that answers it very well.

    And…..

    I have no idea how you understand it. But the way you post it, is that no Democrat has shown any interest in proving beyond any shadow of a doubt, That fraud could have occured. What actually occurred, does not matter enough to change the narrative.

    #1976704

    N0mesorah -“what people focus on….consciousness”-no idea what your trying to say.
    -“Nothing will be fixed. Whatever happened last time, will happen next time.”-not if the GOP works on some more “racist” “restrictive” (😉) voting laws like they did in Georgia. Exposing the fraud makes it (just a tad) harder for democrats to fight against these laws. I say “just a tad” because in truth, the exposure to fraud is actually the exact reason democrats DON’T want these laws in place. But of course they can’t say that out loud.
    -“Rigging an election is not insurrection “-I’m pretty sure it would fall under the category of insurrection, and even if not, it’s far worse than the “insurrection” of Jan 6.
    -so at the end of the day, now that the fraud is starting to be revealed, you still think the best thing for republicans to do is just close the book on elections, close the book on democracy, forget about ever winning an election again, and hand America over to communists on a silver platter?

    #1976826
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Torahvaluesoverparty,

    The best thing forthe Republicans to do, is move forward! Let’s come up with some real policy. We will ignore the extremists on the left. And we will distance somewhat the extremism of the right.

    The republicans win when they stick to small government ideas, limit public financing, and are more afraid to tax the middle class than the filthy rich. Which all plays very well into containing Biden’s success. One point that is forgotten. The RNC did not have any platform in 2020. Winning talking points means everything toTV ratings. It backfires at the polls.

    #1976865
    Yserbius123
    Participant

    Dear @torahvaluesoverparty Don’t start hocking with a different audit. You said very clearly that if the Maricopa audit doesn’t turn up anything substantial you will admit that there’s nothing to the claims of election fraud.

    #1976973

    N0mesorah, you’ve answered my question without answering my question. If the election is rigged, how does touting good policy help?

    #1976971

    Yserbius, my exact words-“speaking for myself, I know that if the R’s in Maricopa complete the audit to their satisfaction,and come up with nothing, I personally will be far more confident the election overall was secure”. A few points
    A) Maricopa officials haven’t fully complied with the Senate issued subpoena, holding back some equipment, and Dominion is holding back some passwords that is hindering some aspects of the audit.
    B) My concerns in point A are partially irrelevant, as the audit-just about a third done-hard already turned up massive red flags, the full results will be released when the audit is complete.
    C) Nothing wrong with me “hocking” with another audit. Fraud revealed is fraud revealed. My words quoted above were stated before I knew about the other audit. Obviously it’s understandable in a hypothetical situation, where fraud greater than the margins is uncovered in, say, PA, MI, and Georgia(which would overturn the election), that I don’t accept the current results even though let’s say the Maricopa audit showed no fraud. Fraud is fraud. And my I finally add that a Judge-ordered-audit in Fulton county, Georgia, is expected to soon get underway, and yes if fraud is uncovered there as well, I will definitely “hock” with it.

    #1977010
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    The theft of the election was a direct output of terrible partisanship. There are normal ways of having a political base.

    #1977012

    Oh. So us being nicer will make the radical liberals not want to steal future elections, and will make them not want to steal America. Got it.🤔🙄

    #1977032
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    No. Us sticking to our agenda will keep power in check, and will allow for more honesty in the public realm. When there is truth and justice, there is more deterrence from illegal activity.

    #1977039

    N0mesorah your being super vague. What part of our agenda are we not sticking to? How will that “keep power in check” and what does that even mean in this context? How will that lead to more honesty in the public realm? I frankly have no idea what point your trying to make, the way I see it, it’s simple. Radical democrats are trying/are going to be trying to steal elections. Literally the only way they stop is if we catch them and if we prevent them from doing so in the future via election laws.

    #1977041
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Can you name these radicals?

    I do not think anyone broke the law on the elections. At least not in any meaningful way. Maybe just the spirit of the law. Or the public trust.

    The agenda is what I laid out earlier. Small government, less public financing, and putting distance between the rich and politicians. This, the basic Republican agenda, is designed from keeping politicians from profiting of backroom deals and celebrity status. In turn, it leaves all the power in the checks and balances of the Constitution. Which prevents populist movements from destroying the system.

    Once politics best chance is by doing their jobs, they would have to be honest with the public. Otherwise, why would the public vote or support them? They would have no other vehicle other than their own integrity.

    You can not manipulate much when the population demands honesty. When the politicians are faced with the choice of being honest or not being relevant, they lose the prospect of remaining silent in the face of a stolen election.

    #1977042
    Yserbius123
    Participant

    Dear @torahvaluesoverparty sigh I really thought you would live up to your username. I had a feeling that no matter how the audit would go, you would find something to nitpick at, like one or two inconsistencies that you will use as some sort of leverage to say the whole thing must be bad. There’s never a major investigation without a few hiccups and inconsistencies. If the whole thing came out clean as a whistle it would be even more suspicious.

    It looks like, despite your comments about restoring confidence in the election, you had your mind made up before the votes were even in. Either Trump won, or the election was stolen. Like I said to @Health, to say that the election was stolen is an extraordinary claim and it would require extraordinary evidence for me to believe it. So far I haven’t even seen ordinary evidence. There isn’t even anything substantial enough to cast suspicion on the election, never mind actual evidence of fraud.

    And I’m not sure what you’ve been reading, but even the Trump worshippers over at NewsMax haven’t reported much about the audit other than the few minor issues I hinted to earlier. Pretty much every other news source is either ignoring it (like FoxNews and other right wing sites) or laughing at the incompetence of the Cyber Ninjas.

    #1977080

    Yserbius, “sigh I really thought you would live up to your username”-oh wow, taking shots here!
    if you’ve been following, the entire premise of my trust in the audit was unobstructed access to all aspects of the process of the election. Obstructing the audit likely means one thing; they’re hiding something. Not that complicated. In reality, I’m not that worried, I do think If fraud was committed, it would show up on the ballots as well.
    Not even sure why we’re even discussing this, I’ll wait until the audit is complete and the results released. As for the Windham audit, results have already been released, that is why I was talking about it.

    #1977093
    Health
    Participant

    Yesr -“Like I said to @Health, to say that the election was stolen is an extraordinary claim and it would require extraordinary evidence for me to believe it. So far I haven’t even seen ordinary evidence.”

    Like I posted back to you – call it extraordinary or regular evidence, before you say that there isn’t any, go watch Lindel’s documentary and then come back & we’ll discuss it here!

    #1977205
    Yserbius123
    Participant

    @torahvaluesoverparty You’re basically setting an extremely high bar for disproving fraud charges while setting an extremely low bar for proving them. There’s no way they would have had “full unobstructed access” to everything to your satisfaction, but what they have should be enough.


    @Health
    I had to search a little to figure out what “The Lindel Documentary” even is. It’s something called “Absolute Proof” by a guy named Mike Lindell. Anyway, I don’t really trust Lindell. He’s changed his story multiple times about the alleged election fraud, I highly doubt his “documentary” has anything new to offer. And if he does offer some massive damning evidence, why didn’t you mention it as opposed to being hyper focused on Jessy Jacob? I’m not going to post a 500 page point-by-point rebuttal of the documentary (others have already and they are pretty good), so why don’t you just pick what claim you think is strongest and we’ll discuss that?

    #1977274

    N0mesorah we’re going in circles, our whole conversation was predicated on this that the election was stolen.
    Yserbius Firstly, there’s no fraud charges to start off with that need to be disproven. There are different aspects that cast doubt, such as the 80% turnout rate. And as for “setting the bar low to prove there was fraud”-I don’t think what they found in windham is setting the bar low. Either way, you ranted how I supposedly wasn’t keeping to my word, you’ve completely ignored point C) in post 1976971, in fact I’ll turn the tables on you-now that they’ve ACTUALLY FOUND FRAUD-why aren’t you being at least a little more receptive to the idea that perhaps the election was stolen? After all, you said yourself that in the beginning, you were “on the fence” …It’s you that’s “nitpicking” here. Your nitpicking on my response to the Maricopa audit, completely ignoring everything else I’ve been saying.

    #1977303
    Health
    Participant

    Yesr -” I had to search a little to figure out what “The Lindel Documentary” even is. It’s something called “Absolute Proof” by a guy named Mike Lindell. Anyway, I don’t really trust Lindell.”

    That’s exactly my point.
    If you won’t even hear the other side, there’s nothing to discuss.
    I don’t care what you believe, but if you come to YWN and pretend you’re in the middle – you’re certainly not.
    Just be honest with yourself and admit your a Lib Leftist.

    And btw, Lindel was just the MC.
    If you’re really looking for the Truth – then watch the Documentary!

    #1977360
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Torahvaluesoverparty,

    Of course it was stolen! Trump is long out of the White House. And now one case went in front of a grand jury to indict him. Could it be we term radicals and extremists differently?

    #1977369

    N0mesorah your jumping from one point to the next, I think we’re done our discussion.

    #1977380
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    I was on one point. You tied in some things that are irrelevant! Untrue, or unclear. I did not follow you. Just to be clear, here is my one point again.

    The theft of the election was a direct output of terrible partisanship. There are normal ways of having a political base.

    #1977384
    Health
    Participant

    NoMesorah -“And now one case went in front of a grand jury to indict him. Could it be we term radicals and extremists differently?”

    You Libs are all the same. Looking to prosecute s/o because he’s successful!

    The biggest joke is the Lib reaction to Crime.
    They just had a mass Shooting in Bridgeton, NJ.
    So what did Murphy say – we need more Gun Control.
    I got News for him those guns weren’t Legal in the First Place!
    What we really need is Punishment for Crimes, but the DemonCrats are against Strict Punishment!

    #1977406
    Yserbius123
    Participant

    @Health I didn’t remember Lindell’s name, but I knew him as “The MyPillow Guy”. He immediately started screaming “Fraud!” almost as soon as the elections started, and changed the story every time an allegation he made was proven false. That’s why I don’t trust him. And I certainly won’t waste my time watching a video he put together. If there are hard and convincing pieces of evidence in the video, then by all means say them. But you can’t win an argument by saying “Well you didn’t watch these three hours of video I linked to, so you have no case”.

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