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Tagged: Roger Williams
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May 2, 2025 12:20 pm at 12:20 pm #2394463ujmParticipant
What would be the best way to peacefully dismantle the State of “Israel”?
Make it an international zone under US military control? UN? A completely other suggestion?
May 4, 2025 3:17 am at 3:17 am #2394561yungermanSParticipantAll of klal yisroel to IMMEDIATELY wake up for serious teshuva and Achdus together as one loving nation begging Hashem forgiveness and Hashem will then be able to send Mashiach already bkarov and THEN THE STATE OF ISRAEL WILL IMMEDIATELY BE DISMANTLED
May it happen very soon
May 4, 2025 3:17 am at 3:17 am #2394615akupermaParticipantBest way would be for the Rabbanim to all work together, replace the Medinah with a restored Malchus of Beis Dovid (perhaps under a Regent), and establish a Jewish state.
To deal with the Arabs, first the Jews in Eretz Yisrael have to realize that the Arabs will never settle for at least the appearance of control. The original agreements made after World War I would have led to a large Islamic state (including all Arabic speaking area east of Suez, with an autonomous Jewish homeland – rather than a Jewish state ruling over the Palestinians. This was sabotaged by the British with the help of the French, Italian and Russian governments – the Brits were afraid they would end with a replacement for the Ottoman Empire, but much more powerful, controlling Suez and access to their empire in India. The only proposal that would win would be a large Islamic state, in which the Jews of Eretz Yisrael would be willing to avoid acting in a manner offensive to Islam (the gays would probably have to move to Europe or America, as would most other seculars) – but that the Jews of Eretz Yisrael would be focused on security and being able to be frum, and not on bossing around the Muslims. The IDF would have to avoid being so threatening to the Muslims, but remember that in the Middle East, every Tom, Dick and Harry has their own militia.
May 4, 2025 3:17 am at 3:17 am #2394616provaxxParticipantAllowing disgusting שונאי ישראל like you to voice their opinion
May 4, 2025 3:17 am at 3:17 am #2394617SQUARE_ROOTParticipantIf the State of Israel were dismantled, there are two possibilities:
Either the Jews remain in the land of Israel OR they leave the land of Israel.
If the Jews remain in the land of Israel, without the Israeli Army to protect them,
they would all be killed, slaughtered, annihilated, murdered and massacred.Some of the surviving women and children would become SLAVES to Muslims.
This has actually happened before, so what I say is historical, not merely theoretical.If the Jews would leave the land of Israel, then approximately
8 million Jews will become homeless refugees.
Which countries will accept approximately 8 million Jewish refugees?I cannot think of any country or any combination of countries
that would accept even half that number of Jewish refugees,
or even half-of-half that number of Jewish refugees.If millions of Jews were massacred, the nations of the world
would interpret that as G*D abandoning the Jewish people,
which would be a very great Chillul HaShem,
which would cause even more persecution against Jews.If millions of Jews became homeless refugees, the nations of the world
would interpret that as G*D abandoning the Jewish people,
which would be a very great Chillul HaShem,
which would cause even more persecution against Jews.Last but not least, dismantling the State of Israel,
even “peacefully”, is the fantasy of every neo-Nazi,
radical anti-Semite and fanatical Jew-hater.The fact that UJM agrees with millions of neo-Nazis,
radical anti-Semites and fanatical Jew-haters
SHOULD be a very big warning that he is pointed
in the WRONG direction; but just as radical anti-Semites
and fanatical Jew-haters refuse to listen to logic,
the Chareidi anti-Zionists also refuse to listen to logic.The Chareidi anti-Zionists will eventually go to the
same place in Gehinom as the millions of neo-Nazis,
radical anti-Semites and fanatical Jew-haters.
They will be neighbors and roommates in Gehinom.PS: The so-called “peaceful” dismantlement of the State of Israel
would soon result in the complete destruction of:
[1] Every synagogue in Eretz Yisrael.
[2] Every yeshivah in Eretz Yisrael.
[3] Every mikvah in Eretz Yisrael.
[4] Every stone in the Kotel.May 4, 2025 3:17 am at 3:17 am #2394619HaKatanParticipantThe Satmar Rav wrote that if the Zionists were to go to the UN then they would figure out a way (which obviously would not include risk to Jews R”L).
May 4, 2025 3:17 am at 3:17 am #2394640yankel berelParticipantImpossible.
May 4, 2025 3:17 am at 3:17 am #2394729provaxxParticipantHow can YWN post such vile disgusting antisemitism and censor my response to this antisemite?
May 4, 2025 3:17 am at 3:17 am #2394735provaxxParticipantShame on YWN for allowing shmutz like this to be published
May 4, 2025 3:17 am at 3:17 am #2394763Ari KnoblerParticipantWhat a saddening, shameful thing to write. אַ ווייטיק איז דער מאַמען
May 4, 2025 3:17 am at 3:17 am #2394837doom777ParticipantA Jewish state guided by Torah
May 4, 2025 3:17 am at 3:17 am #2394838doom777ParticipantA Jewish State guided by Torah, devoted to serving Hashem
May 4, 2025 3:17 am at 3:17 am #2394840simcha613ParticipantUJM- I have bitachon that Hashem chose the right mode of governance that we need now for Eretz Yisroel, and we should all be thankful to Hashem that it exists, and work together to ensure that it’s the best it could possibly be- religiously, economically, and safe.
May 4, 2025 1:10 pm at 1:10 pm #2394906ZSKParticipantWhat on earth is wrong with you?
May 4, 2025 1:10 pm at 1:10 pm #2394907yankel berelParticipantI cannot believe that satmar rav said to go the UN to be shomer umatsil millions of your sisters and brothers from the barbarities of the two legged monsters walking certain areas of the ME.
Which UN member nation will donate their own boys to be butchered in defense of some Jews in some faraway land ?
Can you name that nation ?
Can you also answer – honestly of course – what that nation will say when ten of their youth will have died ?
When fifty of their youth will have died ?
When five hundred of their youth will have died ?
—Can you [honestly of course] tell me what happened to thousands of innocent civilian Bosnian boys under UN protection in the 1990’s ?
What exactly did the UN do ?
—
Can you [honestly of course] tell me what happened to the innocent Jewish boys under British Mandate Protection, in Hebron and all over the Holy Land , in the 1930’s ?
Thats how much you can rely on the UN ….
—
You yourself would not trust even one hundred dollars of your own private savings to said protection ….And you seriously propose to blindly deposit countless entire families to their sense of rahmanut and yashrut ????
.
.May 4, 2025 1:10 pm at 1:10 pm #2394927anon1m0usParticipantUJM,
You are worse than the meraglim! The meraglim only said Loshan Horah against Eretz Yisroel when it was controlled by the Cannanite nations. You are saying Loshan Horah while it is under Binai Yisroel’s control! How much worse will your punishment be?May 4, 2025 1:10 pm at 1:10 pm #2394981Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantLast century fights between ideological organizations are currently irrelevant. Medinah is a democracy, so when majority of jews would will something, it will propagate to the government. So, hopefully more and more Jews will vote for Ehrlicher Torah true representatives, and both anti torah and haters like the op will be irrelevant.
May 4, 2025 1:10 pm at 1:10 pm #2395036SQUARE_ROOTParticipantFor HaKatan:
I do not hold by the Satmar Rav and I do not care what he said.
He was one of the most over-rated Jewish leaders of all time,
an insignificant person whose entire community is based
on total isolation from world — not only isolation from non-Jews,
but also total isolation from all Jews who are not Satmar.Satmar is not a valid shita; it is an extremely severe mental illness,
and the Satmar Rav does not deserve any praise for being their leader.Half of Satmar is permanently on welfare, and don’t get me started with
true stories about Satmar chassidim behaving worse than animals.May 4, 2025 1:10 pm at 1:10 pm #2395054smerelParticipantRav Yosef Elya Henkin was the very few Gedoley Torah from out of the Satmar orbit to have opposed voting in the Knesset elections so he was no Zionist. Unlike the troll question asked here and most of the anti-Zionist answers given here he was truly not a Zionist. But as Rav Yosef Elya Henkin wrote in the name of Rav Ozer Grodzenki, most of the anti-Zionist kanoim are no better than the Zionists themselves when it comes to the Gimmel Shavous and hsigarus b’umos. They happen to have a different vision than Herzl but they also want to control and conquer the state of Israel and install a government of their liking in the name of Judaism. What makes them different than Ben Gurion? There is also the Jabotinsky wing of Zionism, and the Kanoim wing of Zionism. Perhaps the kanoim are more aggressive, standoffish, confrontational and have been far more successful in turning people away from authentic Judaism over the past few decades. than the other wings of Zionism. But they all share the same goal. Control of Israel and installing a government of their liking while claiming to speak in the name of Judaism.
May 4, 2025 1:10 pm at 1:10 pm #2395066HaLeiViParticipantIt is obviously not something that we can imagine doing safely and reasonablely before Hashem sends Moshiach and sets him up with the correct government.
Our job is to be meritorious enough to bring about the era of Moshiach in the most pleasurable way, אחישנה. It is NOT our job to advise Hashem how He should move the pieces. And, we do a terrible job each time we think we can figure out the next step.
May 5, 2025 11:18 am at 11:18 am #2395160EvalimoshavloParticipantAfter UJM makes Aliyah he can discuss dismanteling the state.
We can start with his house.
It can become the new UNWRA headquarters.May 5, 2025 11:18 am at 11:18 am #2395161ubiquitinParticipantUJM
easy you use some euphemism like “transfer” “elimination” always refer to it passively and pretent its peacul
So while you hope for the “elimination ” and removal of yidden , the rest of us know that many before you have had the same stated goal
elah bechol dor vedro omdim alainu lechalaseinu.Hashem saved us from them he will save us form you desire too
May 5, 2025 11:18 am at 11:18 am #2395167SQUARE_ROOTParticipantsmerel said:
“Rav Yosef Elya Henkin wrote in the name of Rav Ozer Grodzenki,
most of the anti-Zionist kanoim are no better than the Zionists themselves
when it comes to the Gimmel Shavous and hsigarus b’umos. ”=======================================
MY RESPONSE:
Can someone please provide us with an exact source for this statement?
I thank you in advance.
May 5, 2025 11:18 am at 11:18 am #2395169Yaakov Yosef AParticipantujm – What is the point of this pyromaniac question?
I’ll try to help you anyway.
If you are a normal anti-Zionist, you daven that Hashem should bring the true Geulah, at which point the secular State will cease to exist. In the meantime, learn, daven, do mitzvos, have fun, and get a life.
If you are one of the several dozen lunatics worldwide erroneously referred to as ‘Neturei Karta’ (no connection to the historical Neturei Karta of R’ Amram Blau z”l), you daven that Hashem should bring the true Geulah, with lots of exiting fire and brimstone for everyone you don’t like, and hope you aren’t on the fire-and-brimstone list yourself, at which point the secular State will cease to exist. In the meantime, learn, daven, do mitzvos, have fun, and get a life.
If you are non-Zionist (regular Chareidi), you daven that Hashem should bring the true Geulah, at which point the secular State will cease to exist. In the meantime, learn, daven, do mitzvos, have fun, and get a life.
If you are Religious Zionist, you daven that Hashem should bring the true Geulah, at which point the secular State will turn into a Torah State under Moshiach. In the meantime, learn, daven, do mitzvos, have fun, and get a life.
If you are a Ben-Gvir type of guy, you go up to Har Habayis, and while you’re there you daven that Hashem should bring the true Geulah, at which point the secular State will turn into a Torah State under Moshiach. In the meantime, learn, daven, do mitzvos, have fun, and get a life.
If you are a die hard Left wing secular Israeli, you try everything you can, legal or otherwise, to ruin what your Sabba Rabbah worked so hard to build. Then you get burned out and go off to Thailand to ‘find yourself’, end up in jail/hospital/who-knows-where, and the Lubavitch Shliach bails you out. Then you go home, go to Arachim/Ohr Sameach/Aish/anyplace (no intention to leave out anyone who is mekarev Yidden), and you start davening every day that Hashem should bring the true Geulah, at which point the secular State will get it’s act together and do Teshuvah. In the meantime, learn, daven, do mitzvos, have fun, and get a life.
If you are a kid who’s bored, trying to see how many angry responses you can get with you’re one-lined piece of narishkeit, you really should grow up, and start davening every day that Hashem should bring the true Geulah. Hopefully already before then, both you and the secular State will get your act together and do Teshuvah. In the meantime, learn, daven, do mitzvos, have fun, and get a life.
I hope one of these answers suits you.
May 5, 2025 11:19 am at 11:19 am #2395191confusedmommyParticipantThe gvirim should get together and buy the state back and bring the Gedoilim to be in charge.
PoshutMay 5, 2025 11:19 am at 11:19 am #2395218mdd1ParticipantSquare root, you may not insult the Satmar Rov — he was a big Talmud Chocham. You do not have to follow his shita, but you may not mevaze him.
May 5, 2025 11:19 am at 11:19 am #2395219EvalimoshavloParticipantI suggest that ujm make Aliyah before making suggestions of how to dismantle the Jewish Homeland granted to us by Hashem himself.
Then we can first dismantle his house and turn it into UN headquarters in the middle East.May 5, 2025 11:19 am at 11:19 am #2395222HaKatanParticipantYankel Berel:
It’s in Al HaGeulah, if memory serves.Regarding your questions, including:
“Can you [honestly of course] tell me what happened to the innocent Jewish boys under British Mandate Protection, in Hebron and all over the Holy Land , in the 1930’s ?Thats how much you can rely on the UN …. ”
The Zionists invaded the holy land decades prior to the ’30s, and stirred up all that mayhem there in the Holy Land against the wishes of the Jews there, not to mention the Holocaust and the rest. The Chevron Pogrom was a result of Jabotinsky’s “Betar” group and more… In general, during the British Mandate period, the wicked Zionists fought and terrorized both the Arabs and the British – who did indeed send their children overseas to give a home to the Zionists (whom they mistakenly assumed were representing Jews). This is in stark contrast to the real Jews who had cordial relationships with the locals long before the Zionists invaded the holy land around the turn-of-the-century.
But I am not claiming that the Satmar Rav meant peacekeepers. I assume he meant a transfer of sovereignty. The truth is that, as the British stated after the Balfour Declaration, the Zionists read much more into the Balfour Declaration than the British intended – and had written. In that Declaration, they wrote that their Sovereign wants to make in Palestine – a “Home” for the Jews – not a “Sovereignty” for the Zionists – which will not negatively impact the rights of other peoples (Arabs) living there.
What should have happened is that Moshiach should have come, if not for the Zionists fooling people into praying for their idol “State”. Until that point, what should have happened is that Palestine would have become an overseas territory of some sovereign nation (UK or other), with essentially national councils for Jews and (liHavdil) Arabs for them to each handle their own internal affairs.
The truth is that Jews live far more safely in countries all around the world under gentile rulers/democracies than they do under the wicked Zionists.
May 5, 2025 11:19 am at 11:19 am #2395223HaKatanParticipantprovaxx and other Zionists:
Given that Zionism is the greatest rebellion against G-d by far, and is therefore far more anti-Jewish than anything out there, anyone who criticizes the Zionists are actually pro-G-d and pro-Judaism. It is the Zionists that are sonei Yisrael.SQUARE_ROOT:
As a Zionist idolater who also probably doesn’t even know that the Satmar Rav wrote sefarim, let alone having ever opened any of those, it would be silly for you to attempt to assess the greatness of the Satmar Rav. The truth is that since idolatry is irrational, it is Zionists and other idolaters who are the ones self-afflicted with mental illness, R”L L”A.You claimed that Satmar advocates “not only isolation from non-Jews, but also total isolation from all Jews who are not Satmar.”
This is, of course, false. Satmar runs a self-sufficient community, which is indeed admirable, and they very much care to avoid joining with reshaim as per the Torah and as expounded by Chazal. Many other communities also “do their own thing” though not with the success that Satmar is blessed by G-d in doing so. The “Modern Orthodox” community and Chabad are two examples. However, Satmar helps everyone, not just Satmar. If anyone G-d forbid has needed to be in a major hospital and has seen the Satmar Bikkur Cholim room, where you have Satmar women – with ten (or more) of their own children – who go and cook and prepare – and then deliver to those hospitals – food for those in need there, no matter the background of the recipients, then they know that your hateful statement is false.May 5, 2025 8:36 pm at 8:36 pm #2395438commonsaychelParticipant@Square Root,
The short men and fat women in Satmar get married unlike your pet peeve about the other communities,
As to your allegation that Satmar does not help anyone but themself, it was Satmar Bikur Cholim who brought you hot food during your hospitalization in the pyc ward.
May 5, 2025 8:36 pm at 8:36 pm #2395446smerelParticipant>>>Can someone please provide us with an exact source for this statement?
See the end of the second volume of Kisvei Rav Yosef Elya Henkin where he discusses haskafa issues and some of his articles in Torah journals in the early 1950s where he strongly, strongly writes against the behavior and secondary haskafas of the anti-Zionist kanoim.
May 5, 2025 8:36 pm at 8:36 pm #2395521HaLeiViParticipantYaakov Yosef, thanks for your wonderful response!
May 5, 2025 8:36 pm at 8:36 pm #2395561☕️coffee addictParticipant“Given that Zionism is the greatest rebellion against G-d by far, and is therefore far more anti-Jewish than anything out there“
“However, Satmar helps everyone, not just Satmar. If anyone G-d forbid has needed to be in a major hospital and has seen the Satmar Bikkur Cholim room, where you have Satmar women – with ten (or more) of their own children – who go and cook and prepare – and then deliver to those hospitals – food for those in need there, no matter the background of the recipients, then they know that your hateful statement is false.“
Hakatan,
Therein lies your mistake, if Netanyahu, Smotrich, or even Lapid needed services from Satmar Bikur Cholim they would give them with happiness whereas regarding a mumar we are told we don’t save him rather we try to drown them
May 5, 2025 8:36 pm at 8:36 pm #2395572Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipant> stark contrast to the real Jews who had cordial relationships with the locals long before the Zionists invaded the holy land around the turn-of-the-century.
Look at last 100 years of Middle Eastern history. Do you see how Arabs are treating each other? They kill each based on religion, sect, tribe, political party, drinking habits … If no zionists came to EY, Jews of old yishuv – and Jews in sepahardi countries – would have ended up under Nasser, Yasser, Saddam, Aytollah and ISIS. And those Ashkenazi Charedim (majority) who came after the zionists would have ended up being killed by Nazis and Commies or assimilated in goldene medinah. And even those most evil Israeli commies ended up playinh soccer on Shabbos rather than being commie leaders in USSR, still an improvement for themselves and the world.
May 5, 2025 8:36 pm at 8:36 pm #2395583yankel berelParticipant@yaakov yosef
I loved your post.
.May 5, 2025 8:36 pm at 8:36 pm #2395585yankel berelParticipantSR could not have written such a thing.
You have not answered what happened to the thousands of innocent Bosnian boys under UN protection .
You have not said what happened to thousands of innocent Yazidi’s under arab sovereignty.
You have not said why you think that the lot of the Jews in EY would be any better than that of the yazidi’s in Iraq ?
Or of that of the Druze in Syria ?
No matter who is to blame for historical events . This is totally irrelevant here. Ask any yazidi .
There are plenty more than the yazidi’s to ask these questions in the ME. You can start with them.
It is time for you to open your eyes to the realities of life. And what is likely to happen chvsh.
.May 5, 2025 8:36 pm at 8:36 pm #2395595SQUARE_ROOTParticipantTrying to dismantle the State of Israel peacefully is like
grabbing an ax, and using the ax to cut a lamb’s head off,
without killing the lamb.Just as it is NOT possible to cut a lamb’s head off,
without killing the lamb, it is also NOT possible
to dismantle the State of Israel peacefully.This should be obvious to every person whose IQ is above 75,
but some Jews have been brainwashed by extreme anti-Jewish hate.UJM and HaKatan have still not explained where 8 million
Jewish refugees are supposed to go to,
after they dismantle the State of Israel “peacefully”.I cannot think of any country or any combination of countries
that would accept even half that number of Jewish refugees,
or even half-of-half-of-half that number of Jewish refugees.May 6, 2025 2:08 pm at 2:08 pm #23956341ParticipantGiven that 10 million people live in Israel and the Arabs aren’t shy about how they want to kill Jews, do you think it’s possible?
May 6, 2025 2:08 pm at 2:08 pm #2395644yankel berelParticipantKatan is using realities from one to two hundred years ago to experiment with the lives and well being of countless yiddishe families in the twentyf irst century. .
There is no country in the world who is interested in sovereignty over EY , willing to sacrifice their own youth to keep aliens safe and secure in the face of the most barbaric and violent monsters on the face of this planet.
This is as clear as day, to anyone not blinded from seeing the sun.
Unlike katan and ujm whose extreme and inflexible brainwash are blinding them from seeing what’s obvious and right in front of their own noses.
.
.May 6, 2025 2:08 pm at 2:08 pm #2395651HaKatanParticipantAAQ:
You’re totally inventing those ideas.Had the Zionists not invaded, the entire area would have remained peaceful, and Jews would have been able to continue to live in not only Palestine but also in Arab countries in even better conditions than they already were living, as the world “modernized”.
This is besides for examples like the Yemenites who had been living in Yemen – and were religious, too – since Bayis Rishon! But when the Zionists got their evil paws on the Yemenites, the evil Zionists shmaded them and did world-class terrible things to the Yemenites, their “fellow Jews”.
Palestine, in particular, would have been Western/Christian owned, with local religious control for Jews (and, liHavdil, Arabs). But the Zionists ruined it all, on every level.
May 6, 2025 2:08 pm at 2:08 pm #2395652HaKatanParticipantI find it amusing (but sad) that the Zionists are so enamored by their idol that they cannot possibly consider how any political situation could work other than their Zionist idol in power there. As mentioned, the simplest political solution would be to implement what the original Balfour Declaration had intended: Christian political control of the area, with local Jewish (and liHavdil Arab//Muslim) religious affairs for themselves.
May 6, 2025 2:08 pm at 2:08 pm #2395676anon1m0usParticipantI think the Jewish world would benefit if we can dismantle Satmar peacefully. We, as Jews, would experience less sinas chimum, and Moshiach will finally come.
May 6, 2025 2:08 pm at 2:08 pm #2395681anIsraeliYidParticipantHow about a not-so-peaceful dismantlement of ujm and those of his ilk, who are dangerously close to being Rodfim? Their mindless nattering provides philosophical cover and support for those would would kill all Jews in Eretz Yisrael – thereby actively endangering the lives of close to eight million Jews. Note that I do NOT call for physically attacking ujm, and he should be left alone – but he should think about what he’s saying before posting it.
@Square_Root – the Satmar Rav, R’ Yoel Teitelbaum Z”L, was a major Talmid Chacham who was helpful to and cared for any Jew who came to him for assistance. You and I may think that his Hashkafa was deeply misguided, but his Ahavas Yisrael was unquestioned – so your critique of him is misguided. His successors, on the other hand, are a different story, and some of them definitely meet the description that you’ve given – but you should be careful to get your facts right before posting.\an Israeli Yid
May 6, 2025 2:08 pm at 2:08 pm #2395762Standard TimeParticipantCompletely other suggestion.
I don’t really know for sure what goal you are envisioning for the “dismantlement” of Israel, and depending on what your imagined future is, my proposal outlined might make sense or it might not. However, I am assuming the best and I so I am assuming that your vision is that many different kinds of people, including Jews, would be able to live in the land area that many people call “Greater Israel”. They would live together without ongoing fighting, under one government. The government would collect taxes and build roads, normal government things. The people living in this area would be able to pursue their religious lives fully, without persecution or fear of persecution.
If that is the scenario you are going for, then you should study how the secular American constitutional republic (many people call it a democracy but technically the US is a constitutional republic) came to be, especially Roger Williams: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Williams who is an early theorist and politician who created the separation of church and state we have in the US, which has allowed Jews in the US to thrive.
May 6, 2025 2:08 pm at 2:08 pm #2395776Standard TimeParticipant(same post as before but I deleted the link to Roger Williams wikipedia page)
Completely other suggestion.
I don’t really know for sure what goal you are envisioning for the “dismantlement” of Israel, and depending on what your imagined future is, my proposal outlined might make sense or it might not. However, I am assuming the best and I so I am assuming that your vision is that many different kinds of people, including Jews, would be able to live in the land area that many people call “Greater Israel”. They would live together without ongoing fighting, under one government. The government would collect taxes and build roads, normal government things. The people living in this area would be able to pursue their religious lives fully, without persecution or fear of persecution.
If that is the scenario you are going for, then you should study how the secular American constitutional republic (many people call it a democracy but technically the US is a constitutional republic) came to be, especially Roger Williams who is an early theorist and politician who created the separation of church and state we have in the US, which has allowed Jews in the US to thrive.
May 7, 2025 10:44 am at 10:44 am #2395939HaLeiViParticipantFor those wondering, The Satmar Rov ZTL and Rav Miller ZTL were not actually in favor of actively undoing the state, although they complained about its founders and government. But they stressed that it would be a dangerous endeavor. The Satmar Rav did say that you should Daven that it happen in a peaceful and safe manner. How that is possible, is not important for us to figure out.
Rav Miller ZTL was against Israeli concessions. He said they were dangerous.
Now, if you don’t believe that you should Daven for such a thing, and you strongly believe that the current state is a wonderful asset for Jews and Judaism, fine. But how does that turn promoters of this wish into Nazis, murderers and Rodfim?
There is a very spacious area in between the extremes. You are welcome to join normal society. In the meanwhile you may want to follow Yaakov Yosef A’s advice.
May 7, 2025 10:44 am at 10:44 am #2395980chiefshmerelParticipantPaging UJM, HaKatan, and the other anti-Zionists on this forum:
So you blame the Hebron Massacre of 1929 on Zionists. I won’t debate that because it won’t help, but can you explain why the Ottomans massacred Jews there in 1517? Or the Egyptians as well in 1834? Ditto for Safed, same years.
Political Zionism didn’t exist before 1870s (estimating generously) and the Jews of both cities weren’t exactly taking sides with the Mamluks in the former case, nor the Ottomans in the latter. Is Occam’s Razor so controversial when concluding that antisemites have always existed in and desiring Eretz Yisrael?
And by the way, UJM, your suggestion about the UN taking over gets excessively dumber as the years go by. I am certain even the Satmar Rebbe wouldn’t have said that in 2025 (his successors certainly have not said so) as the UN gets more hostile.
Plenty of genocides are occurring across the world. Based on a quick search of the UN website, the word “genocide” appears 286 times. But when you search there for certain ethnic groups suffering genocide in 2025, nothing comes up. The word “Druze” does not appear on the UN website even once (notably not in reports or transcripts of speeches). Ditto for “Maronite”. “Sufi” comes up once as a culture with no mention of genocide. Nothing about persecution of Yazidis either.
Do you blame anyone for not wanting the UN to take over the Holy Land?May 7, 2025 10:44 am at 10:44 am #2396033yankel berelParticipantSilly katan cannot stop his rambling about things WOULD have been .
He should open his eyes to the things AS THEY ARE.
Imagine a dr who treats his patients according how they would or should have presented …
Time to wake up to reality, mr katan !
Reality is there is no formula now which will safekeep your own brothers and sisters.
Besides if you are willing to sacrifice them on the altar of your ideology …..
Which sounds eerily similar to your constant accusations against your own opponents – those despicable zionists ….
Maybe you will find yourself in good company after all ….
Don’t they say ‘opposites attract’ ?
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.May 7, 2025 10:44 am at 10:44 am #2396060lakewhutParticipantEven if you want to claim that the Zioniss are to blame for Arab antisemitism the feelings wouldn’t cease and would create a very big sakana to Jews around the world. So we have to make the best of it and fight for Kedusha Eretz Yisroel as much as possible. The return of Jews to Israel has been a harbinger of the baalei teshuva movement of the 60s and til today many Israelis whose parents aren’t frum are finding their way to Torah.
May 7, 2025 10:45 am at 10:45 am #2396072Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipanthakatan > Had the Zionists not invaded, the entire area would have remained peaceful, and Jews would have been able to continue to live in not only Palestine but also in Arab countries in even better conditions
thanks for addressing my argument. So, you are suggesting that all dictators in Middle East are due to Zionist influence? There would be no Sunni-Shia wars? No socialist countries? No Al Qaeda or ISIS? They all sprung up because of the Zionists? Yazidis and Christians and Kurds would also live happily with their Muslim majority? Are India-Pakistan wars also due to Zionists? Chinese communists killing millions also?
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