The Peaceful Dismantlement of the State of “Israel”

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  • #2396078
    Avi K
    Participant

    Why does Malchut Bet David require dismantling Israel c”v? France is now on its fifth republic (constitution) without being dismantled. Satmar, l’havdil, has already been dismantled. There are two rebbes who are at odds with each other. For example, in 2016, one endorsed Hillary Clinton so the other endorsed Trump. They even battled over assets in a secular court.

    #2396080
    SQUARE_ROOT
    Participant

    What would be the best way to peacefully dismantle the Neturei Karta?

    Place them all in permanent cherem?

    Ban them from entering all Orthodox synagogues and Jewish organizations?

    Ban them from entering Eretz Yisrael, even temporarily as tourists?

    Expel all of them from Eretz Yisrael, permanently, forever?

    Throw all of them in Israeli prisons, with no parole, until they all die?

    Send all of them to live in Iran?

    Have the Rabbis declare all of them to be non-Jews?

    I suggest that ALL of these ideas be implemented, as soon as possible!

    #2396095
    Duvidf
    Participant

    The sad reality is that half of the Jewish nation subscribes to liberal secular democracy the other half of observant Jews on one level or another bought into Satmar ideology that wipes the Mitzvos of conquering and settling Eretz Yisroel out of the Torah. There are only a small fraction of Torah true Jews left in the world who still believe in all 613 mitzvos without exception includind the Mitzvos of conquering and settling Eretz Yisroel. Shimon and Levi today would have to belong to the small fraction who unfortunately are the most hunted today by the Israeli secular government. The Israeli GSS or Shabak has a special “Jewish department” who hunt and persecute anyone suspected of belonging to these true Jews. At one of the Otzma Yehudi rallies Rabbi Dov Lior encouraged the group not to worry about their popularity as also in Yetzias Mizrayim it says וחמושים עלו בני ישראל ממצרים only a small fraction merited to leave as the others were not worthy… By Mechiras Yosef and the Meraglim the Majority were wrong and the minority were right… Avraham Avinu was a Yachid vs many as was Moshe Rabenu, Yosef Hatzadik, Dovid Hamelech, Yirmiyah Hanavi, Yeshaya Hanavi, Mordechai Hatzadik, Matisyahu Kohen Gadol and more… At the end of the day in the Torah we find being afraid to conquer Eretz Yisroel is the sin of the Meraglim, going to conquer when it is not the time is the sin of the Maapilim. What it all depends on is if Hashem is commanding to do it now or not. The fact that we have no system of appointing legitimate Rabbis to a Sanhedrin or some sort of supreme Rabbinical court is the main churban of our times. All we have are way to many groups each claiming they and their Rabbis are the truth and all the others and their Rabbis are invalid.

    #2396340
    SQUARE_ROOT
    Participant

    HaKatan said:

    “Had the Zionists not invaded, the entire area would have remained peaceful,
    and Jews would have been able to continue to live in not only Palestine
    but also in Arab countries in even better conditions
    than they already were living, as the world “modernized.”

    __________________________________________________________________
    MY RESPONSE:

    If you are not a Navi [prophet], then you cannot know
    what would have happened. You can only guess.

    Additionally, the Middle East was not “peaceful”
    because the Ottoman Empire, which ruled the Middle East,
    was at war during World War I and other wars.

    Additionally, Jews in Muslim lands were often
    persecuted and killed, even before Zionism.

    Even when Jews in Muslim lands were not persecuted,
    they were never legally equal to Muslims.

    __________________________________________________________________
    Duvidf was correct when he said:

    “…observant Jews on one level or another bought into
    Satmar ideology that wipes the Mitzvos of conquering
    and settling Eretz Yisroel out of the Torah.”

    And that comment helps to explain why Religious Zionism
    is the true Derech HaTorah, that was received by
    Moshe Rabbeinu on Mount Sinai and taught
    to his loyal student, Yehoshua HaNavi.

    #2396346
    somejewiknow
    Participant

    @duvidf
    What issue do you have with the Satmar Rebbe’s psak in his “Maamar Yishuv Eretz Yisroel”? Why do you accuse him of ignoring mitzvos he invested so much time in teaching the halachos of?

    #2396381

    chiefsmerel > The word “Druze” does not appear on the UN website even once

    This happened before. League of Nations had a charter to protect minorities in Central European countries between WW1 and WW2. Jews in Baltics, Poland, Czechoslovakia, etc often complained, together with German, Russian and other minorities providing pressure on those governments. In 1930s, Jewish organizations decided to complain about treatment of Jews in Germany – and were told that German Jews are not registered as a minority.

    #2396385

    Avi > Why does Malchut Bet David require dismantling Israel c”v?

    Good question. By Rambam, zman moschiach will be only different in that the non-Jews will not oppress Jews. Having a state with an Army is definitely a step in the right direction.

    #2396387

    Duvidf > The fact that we have no system of appointing legitimate Rabbis to a Sanhedrin or some sort of supreme Rabbinical court is the main churban of our times.

    This is not the only one. Current Batei Dinim have a very narrow area to operate – kashrus, marriages, yeshiva curriculum, days to say tahanun … maybe that is why they are spreading out into politics. R Soloveitchik writes about that – we first lost dinei nefashos at the end of 2nd commonwealth, then karbonos … he says that he remember his grandfather R Chaim dealing with business problems brought to him, we do not have a lot of those. So, maybe start asking dinei mamonos from your beis din and they’ll have less time to make pronouncements about WZO voting.

    #2396426
    HaKatan
    Participant

    lakewhut:
    It’s not “even if”; Rabbi Dr. Soloveichik openly admitted that, and it is simple reality. As well, the reason their parents aren’t frum is Zionist shmad, and that shmad is ongoing, too. That seems to get lost in the whole excitement about the “teshuva” movement there.

    AAQ:
    Did you see any suggestion like that? Why go off-topic with nonsense? The point is that when the Zionists invaded they shattered the peace enjoyed by Jews in the Middle East (and caused the Holocaust) and lit on fire the entire region due to their Big Lie that they represent Jews when, in reality, it is only G-d, the Torah and its sages that are representative of Jews.

    yankel berel:
    The point is that, as the Brisker Rav told the Chazon Ish, it is true that gezeirah raah avida liHiBatla, but that applies only when it is recognized as such. That recognition is lacking, even after many decades and unspeakable and ongoing destruction due to Zionism.

    #2396447
    Duvidf
    Participant

    The sad reality is that half of the Jewish nation subscribes to liberal secular democracy the other half of observant Jews on one level or another bought into Satmar ideology that wipes the Mitzvos of conquering and settling Eretz Yisroel out of the Torah. There are only a small fraction of Torah true Jews left in the world who still believe in all 613 mitzvos without exception includind the Mitzvos of conquering and settling Eretz Yisroel. Shimon and Levi today would have to belong to the small fraction who unfortunately are the most hunted today by the Israeli secular government. The Israeli GSS or Shabak has a special “Jewish department” who hunt and persecute anyone suspected of belonging to these true Jews. At one of the Otzma Yehudi rallies Rabbi Dov Lior encouraged the group not to worry about their popularity as also in Yetzias Mizrayim it says וחמושים עלו בני ישראל ממצרים only a small fraction merited to leave as the others were not worthy… By Mechiras Yosef and the Meraglim the Majority were wrong and the minority were right… Avraham Avinu was a Yachid vs many as was Moshe Rabenu, Yosef Hatzadik, Dovid Hamelech, Yirmiyah Hanavi, Yeshaya Hanavi, Mordechai Hatzadik, Matisyahu Kohen Gadol and more… At the end of the day in the Torah we find being afraid to conquer Eretz Yisroel is the sin of the Meraglim, going to conquer when it is not the time is the sin of the Maapilim. What it all depends on is if Hashem is commanding to do it now or not. The fact that we have no system of appointing legitimate Rabbis to a Sanhedrin or some sort of supreme Rabbinical court is the main churban of our times. All we have are way to many groups each claiming they and their Rabbis are the truth and all the others and their Rabbis are invalid.

    #2396496
    SQUARE_ROOT
    Participant

    UBIQUITIN said this on 2025 May 1:

    HaKatan:

    Your anti-Zionism is always funny,
    but this one might be my favorite:

    “Zionism is an extremely strong force of assimilation.”

    This is the exact opposite of the truth

    Zionism, as evil as you think it is,
    is the strongest antidote to assimilation.

    Intermarriage without Zionism, eg in America, is over 50% .
    In Israel it is negligible.

    In Israel, as you may know, all can read and write Hebrew,
    making it much easier to come back.

    CONCLUSION:

    HaKatan wants to “dismantle” the one country in the world
    that has the lowest rate of intermarriage: ISRAEL.

    #2396735
    Evalimoshavlo
    Participant

    Best excuse for staying in the Golus and fattening your bank accounts.
    Dismantle Isreal so that you don’t feel guilty siting in Lakewood or Brooklyn or Money etc.
    No Israel. No guilt.
    Sounds like middle ages jewphobia.
    More sinister than our worst enemies!

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