The Peaceful Dismantlement of the State of “Israel”

What would be the best way to peacefully dismantle the Neturei Karta?

Place them all in permanent cherem?

Ban them from entering all Orthodox synagogues and Jewish organizations?

Ban them from entering Eretz Yisrael, even temporarily as tourists?

Expel all of them from Eretz Yisrael, permanently, forever?

Throw all of them in Israeli prisons, with no parole, until they all die?

Send all of them to live in Iran?

Have the Rabbis declare all of them to be non-Jews?

I suggest that ALL of these ideas be implemented, as soon as possible!

HaKatan said:

“Had the Zionists not invaded, the entire area would have remained peaceful,
and Jews would have been able to continue to live in not only Palestine
but also in Arab countries in even better conditions
than they already were living, as the world “modernized.”

__________________________________________________________________
MY RESPONSE:

If you are not a Navi [prophet], then you cannot know
what would have happened. You can only guess.

Additionally, the Middle East was not “peaceful”
because the Ottoman Empire, which ruled the Middle East,
was at war during World War I and other wars.

Additionally, Jews in Muslim lands were often
persecuted and killed, even before Zionism.

Even when Jews in Muslim lands were not persecuted,
they were never legally equal to Muslims.

__________________________________________________________________
Duvidf was correct when he said:

“…observant Jews on one level or another bought into
Satmar ideology that wipes the Mitzvos of conquering
and settling Eretz Yisroel out of the Torah.”

And that comment helps to explain why Religious Zionism
is the true Derech HaTorah, that was received by
Moshe Rabbeinu on Mount Sinai and taught
to his loyal student, Yehoshua HaNavi.

chiefsmerel > The word “Druze” does not appear on the UN website even once

This happened before. League of Nations had a charter to protect minorities in Central European countries between WW1 and WW2. Jews in Baltics, Poland, Czechoslovakia, etc often complained, together with German, Russian and other minorities providing pressure on those governments. In 1930s, Jewish organizations decided to complain about treatment of Jews in Germany – and were told that German Jews are not registered as a minority.

Duvidf > The fact that we have no system of appointing legitimate Rabbis to a Sanhedrin or some sort of supreme Rabbinical court is the main churban of our times.

This is not the only one. Current Batei Dinim have a very narrow area to operate – kashrus, marriages, yeshiva curriculum, days to say tahanun … maybe that is why they are spreading out into politics. R Soloveitchik writes about that – we first lost dinei nefashos at the end of 2nd commonwealth, then karbonos … he says that he remember his grandfather R Chaim dealing with business problems brought to him, we do not have a lot of those. So, maybe start asking dinei mamonos from your beis din and they’ll have less time to make pronouncements about WZO voting.

The sad reality is that half of the Jewish nation subscribes to liberal secular democracy the other half of observant Jews on one level or another bought into Satmar ideology that wipes the Mitzvos of conquering and settling Eretz Yisroel out of the Torah. There are only a small fraction of Torah true Jews left in the world who still believe in all 613 mitzvos without exception includind the Mitzvos of conquering and settling Eretz Yisroel. Shimon and Levi today would have to belong to the small fraction who unfortunately are the most hunted today by the Israeli secular government. The Israeli GSS or Shabak has a special “Jewish department” who hunt and persecute anyone suspected of belonging to these true Jews. At one of the Otzma Yehudi rallies Rabbi Dov Lior encouraged the group not to worry about their popularity as also in Yetzias Mizrayim it says וחמושים עלו בני ישראל ממצרים only a small fraction merited to leave as the others were not worthy… By Mechiras Yosef and the Meraglim the Majority were wrong and the minority were right… Avraham Avinu was a Yachid vs many as was Moshe Rabenu, Yosef Hatzadik, Dovid Hamelech, Yirmiyah Hanavi, Yeshaya Hanavi, Mordechai Hatzadik, Matisyahu Kohen Gadol and more… At the end of the day in the Torah we find being afraid to conquer Eretz Yisroel is the sin of the Meraglim, going to conquer when it is not the time is the sin of the Maapilim. What it all depends on is if Hashem is commanding to do it now or not. The fact that we have no system of appointing legitimate Rabbis to a Sanhedrin or some sort of supreme Rabbinical court is the main churban of our times. All we have are way to many groups each claiming they and their Rabbis are the truth and all the others and their Rabbis are invalid.

Best excuse for staying in the Golus and fattening your bank accounts.
Dismantle Isreal so that you don’t feel guilty siting in Lakewood or Brooklyn or Money etc.
No Israel. No guilt.
Sounds like middle ages jewphobia.
More sinister than our worst enemies!

HaKatan is using realities from one to two hundred years ago to experiment with the lives and well being of countless yiddishe families in the twentyf irst century. .

There is no country in the world who is interested in sovereignty over EY , willing to sacrifice their own youth to keep aliens safe and secure in the face of the most barbaric and violent monsters on the face of this planet.

This is as clear as day, to anyone not blinded from seeing the sun.
Unlike katan and ujm whose extreme and inflexible brainwash are blinding them from seeing what’s obvious and right in front of their own noses.
.
.

Duvidf:
The sad reality is that the Zionists have fooled many into denying that conquering the land is forbidden while in galus. Nobody, including Satmar, ever took that out of the Torah CH”V, and you are slandering them by stating that. As well, even Satmar do live in E”Y.

SQUARE_ROOT:
The fact is that this quote is of course accurate: “Zionism is an extremely strong force of assimilation.” The entire purpose of Zionism is to change Jews and Judaism from a Torah-based people of faith into an idolatrous and godless land-based gentile nation. As well, comparing the percentage of Jews vs gentiles in each country, the intermarriage rate of Torah-observant Jews in America is basically non-existent despite Jews being only a very, very small minority, while there are multiple organizations only in the Zionist paradise that rescue Jewish girls from being “married” to Arabs in their hell-hole Arab villages and the secular Jews still go to Sweden or elsewhere to find gentile “wives”.

Regarding “coming back”, only in Israel does the government poison their citizens to hate Judaism, while elsewhere the non-observant Jews are largely simply ignorant and certainly do come back when exposed to the beauty of Torah.

Evalimoshavlo:
G-d has commanded us to be loyal to the nations and not to take any part of the holy land prior to Mashiach’s arrival. G-d has also commanded us to keep His Torah. The Zionists deny all of that and convince Jews (especially those under their control) to deny all of that as well. That is indeed our worst enemy.

“Regarding “coming back”, only in Israel does the government poison their citizens to hate Judaism, while elsewhere the non-observant Jews are largely simply ignorant and certainly do come back when exposed to the beauty of Torah.“

Your premise that this is their goal might be true however this statement for sure isnt true

Just look at the Israelis that do come back even those with Zionistic lineage

If anti-Zionist Chareidim continue to call for
the “peaceful” dismantlement of Israel,
then one day, a majority of Israeli Jews will call for
the “peaceful” dismantlement of the anti-Zionist Chareidim.

BECAUSE IT WORKS BOTH WAYS!!!

“And he [Rabbi Shraga Feivel Mendlowitz] expressed
amazement that anyone who considered himself a good Jew
could possibly go seven days without thinking of
some way in which he could improve the lot of
settlers in Eretz Yisrael or otherwise improve the Land.”

SOURCE: Reb Shraga Feivel: the life and times of Rabbi Shraga Feivel Mendlowitz,
the architect of Torah in America (chapter 25, page 322) by Yonoson Rosenblum
for Artscroll / Mesorah, year 2001 CE, based on Aharon Sorasky’s Shelucha DeRachmana,
ISBNs: 157819797X, 9781578197972, 1578197961, 9781578197965

__________________________________________
PERSONAL COMMENT:

If you read the quote shown above carefully,
you will understand that Rabbi Shraga Feivel Mendlowitz
(known as: “the premier architect of Torah in American history”)
wanted ALL JEWS to help the settlers in Eretz Yisrael,
even though most of those settlers were Secular ZIONISTS!!!

__________________________________________
PERSONAL COMMENT:

PLEASE DO NOT LISTEN to Rabbi Shraga Feivel Mendlowitz,
just because he was the founder of Torah U’Mesorah.

PLEASE DO NOT LISTEN To Rabbi Shraga Feivel Mendlowitz,
just because he was principal of Yeshiva Torah Vodaas,
and taught there for 25 years.

PLEASE DO NOT LISTEN to Rabbi Shraga Feivel Mendlowitz,
just because he was known as
“the premier architect of Torah in American history.”

__________________________________________
PS: If you doubt that my quote is accurate,
then I invite you to find a copy of the book that I mentioned,
and turn to the chapter number and page number that I mentioned.
You will then see with your own eyes that my quote is 100% accurate.

So, in other words, the Zionists have no answers, as always, because the Zionist idol is simply indefensible.

But one Zionist here quotes Rabbi SF Mendlowitz who held that some Zionists were “tinokosh sheNishbu”. Plenty of Zionists were factually not that. For example, the first Zionist Dear Leader gave a (blasphemous and Zionist, of course) “chumash shiur” to his fellow heretics. He quoted from Tehillim in their pathetic excuse for a parliament.

Regardless, the greatest Torah sages who lived in E”Y including the Brisker Rav, the Chazon Ish, and many others both in E”Y and outside it, all condemned the Zionists as the wicked heretics and destroyers of G-d’s Torah and people which the Zionists obviously were and unfortunately remain so.

The Brisker Rav noted that the “State” the Zionists have achieved is the “greatest triumph of the satan since the sin of the golden calf” – and that one was a very, very big triumph as it reverted the world to the post-Eitz HaDaas status, as it is today. He also noted that the Zionists cannot possibly improve the lot of the Jews, even if they wanted to do so (which of course is not their goal) because the Torah is our lifeblood. Anything that does not fit with the Torah cannot possibly help Jews.

Nu.

Where is katan ?

Opposites attract.

Both, katan and his Zionists, are ignoring the present state of their brothers and sisters , because their blind adherence to their ideology.

Waiting for a TO THE POINT answer ….
.

In the very early 2000s, I spoke to 50 shadchanim,
by telephone, and I asked all of them:

“What are the biggest problems that harm shidduchim?”

The top two answers were: “short boys” and “fat girls”.

Short men cannot become taller, so I will not discuss them.

But fat girls can become thinner, so we must do something about that.

FAT GIRLS remain a constant problem, that cannot
be solved by giving financial incentives to shadchanim,
nor can this problem be solved by changing
the ages at which singles start shidduchim.

Instead of spending 1 or 2 years in Seminary,
which is a huge waste of money and total waste of time,
single girls should spend 1 or 2 years in a female-only gym,
or long-distance running, to become thinner.

The weight and size they lose will do more
to help them get married than ANY Seminary.

PS: On 2025 March 4th, I saw a teenage
Chareidi girl who was 5 feet tall and 5 feet wide.

In a few years, she will be attempting shidduchim.

Why should any 15-year-old Frum girl be 5 feet tall and 5 feet wide?

Why? Why?? WHY???

@SQUARE_ROOT Your words are chaval, a disgrace to the Torah and to derech eretz. How dare you publicly defame one of the greatest gedolei Yisrael of our generation, the heiliger Satmar Rebbe zt”l, who devoted his life to preserving Torah and Yiddishkeit in the most difficult of circumstances? Your attack on him is not only an attack on Satmar, but an attack on Torah leadership itself. He is well known to have been one of the biggest Ohavei Yisroel of his generation and loved every jew regardless on their personal beliefs.

It is disgusting to call any talmid chacham “over-rated” or “insignificant.” The Satmar Rav was a nasi for his generation, whose leadership and influence extended far beyond his own community, and whose principles on Torah and kedushah are still respected by thousands. If you fail to recognize this, it reveals your own spiritual devastation and a complete misunderstanding of what true Torah leadership is

Mocking the Satmar community, or any frum community, as “mentally ill” or “worse than animals” is not just motzi shem ra — it is chilul Hashem on an unforgivable scale. The Satmar community, like every other community of Torah observant Jews, is built on kedushah, avodas Hashem, and yiras shamayim. To slander them in this manner is a violation of the Torah’s fundamental commandments of ve’ahavta le’reacha kamocha and lo sa’aseh rachil.

And as for your vile comments about welfare — you’re implying that one’s parnassah or material standing reflects their spiritual worth. Is that what you truly believe? Then, according to you, the greatest talmidei chachamim who dedicated their lives to Torah and avodah should be looked down upon. How utterly misguided and dangerous that perspective is. As well as this many sattmar chassidim are involved in businesses, reflected by their trade show this month, Satmark, which is one of the biggest jesih trade shows in the world.

As well as this over a 1/4 of frum jews are anti zioist and follow the heiliger rebbe zt”l shita

I urge you to think this over and ask mechilah to the rabbonim you have publicly defamed

Has anyone here actually read the message that I placed in this discussion,
on May 12, 2025 5:03 pm? Scroll back a few comments to find that message.

I suggest we retire this thread and post somewhere else, I do not like seeing this atrocious headline in the feed.

741, when you’ll get to marriageable age, you’ll understand.

NARROWMINDED HAKATAN IS INVITED TO READ AND TAKE TO HEART THIS FOLLOWING POST. [from smerel]

——
The Brisker Rav noted that the “State” the Zionists have achieved is the “greatest triumph of the satan since the sin of the golden calf” – [KATAN]
———
This is SHEKER GAMUR and a tremendous disgrace to the Brisker Rav and Torah true Judaism.

Firstly whatever your view on Zionism is there is no way anyone can argue that they are worse than Yeruvem ben Nevat who made actual real egels and forced the majorty of Klal Yisroel to worship them. They aren’t worse than Menashe who burnt every single sefer torah in all of Eretz Yisroel (according to most opinions) and turned the Beis Hamakdush itself into a place of idol worship. They aren’t worse than the Yesvekitzia who successfully helped in the shmad of the three million people Jewish community in Russia. (The Yesvekitzia also persecuted Zionists with the same zeal as they persecuted frum people)

Secondly the Brisker Rav was of the opinion that the anti-Zionist belief that attributes the state of Israel and all of its succusses to the Sotton borders of Kefira. It elevates the Sotton to having power of a deity R”L. It is not so different (if at all) from them non-Jewish idolatrous view that all evil in the world exists because of the Satan. The Sotton does not “triumph” R’L . He does what Hashem gives him power to do.

=============

BESIDES, AM STILL WAITING FOR KATANS ANSWER TO MY -following – POST:

Imagine a dr who treats his patients according how they would or should have presented …

Any dr will tell you – you treat the patient according to their condition at the time of presentation.

Time to wake up to reality.

Reality is there is no formula now which will safekeep your own brothers and sisters.

Besides if you are willing to sacrifice them on the altar of your ideology …..
..
.

Which sounds eerily similar to your constant accusations against your own opponents – those despicable zionists ….

Maybe you will find yourself in good company after all ….

Don’t they say ‘opposites attract’ ??

.

On 2025 May 4, I wrote this comment in this discussion:

The so-called “peaceful” dismantlement of the State of Israel
would soon result in the COMPLETE DESTRUCTION of:

[1] Every synagogue in Eretz Yisrael.
[2] Every yeshivah in Eretz Yisrael.
[3] Every mikvah in Eretz Yisrael.
[4] Every stone in the Kotel.

The anti-Zionists have NO RESPONSE to this truth.

On 2025 May 4, I wrote this comment in this discussion
in which I mentioned that the “peaceful” dismantlement
of the State of Israel would result in 8 million Jewish refugees,
with no country willing to accept that many Jews and
no combination of countries willing to accept that many Jews.

The anti-Zionists have NO RESPONSE to this truth.

The anti-Zionists want Muslims to COMPLETELY DESTROY
every Jewish holy place in Eretz Yisrael and make
every Jew in Eretz Yisrael into a literal homeless person.

In addition to being a gigantic act of cruelty,
this would also be a gigantic Chillul HaShem.

That is their idea for the “peaceful” dismantlement of the State of Israel.

Any person who advocates for the dismantlement of Israel,
he is a Jew-hater and a RODAIF and a MOSAIR, and he should
be treated like a Jew-hater and RODAIF and a MOSAIR.

ujm:

We should all sing together the song that HaGaon HaRav Sholom Ber Sorotzkin shlit”a sang at his son’s chasuna a few weeks ago in Eretz Yisroel, together with the entire Yeshivas Ateres Shlomo and thousands of other attendees at the Chasuna:

<b>G-d is our King,

We are his servants

The holy Torah is our Law

We are loyal to it.

We do not recognize the Heretic Zionist Regime

Its laws do not apply to us

We walk in the ways of the Torah

In fire and water

We walk in the ways of the Torah

To Sanctify the Name of Heaven
==================================================

LOL.
ujm wants us to follow rav sorotskin ….

Is ujm USING rav sorotskin here , or
is he so taken by his new rebbi , rav sorotskin, that he encourages all of us to follow his new da’at torah ?

This Q is easily proven ….

What will ujm say when rav sorotskin will suddenly advocate for voting for the knesset or voting in the WZO ….

Think we all know the answer …..

.

This thread is still going?

1. It’s very easy to be a Zionist or an anti-Zionist from the comfort of your home in America…

2. ‘Secular Zionism’ (originally known as ‘Auto-Emancipation’ before Herzl ימ״ש found out that ‘Zion’ existed…) is the belief that Jews can be the ‘masters of their own destiny’ and solve their problems (especially antisemitism) by establishing their own state (anywhere, no connection to ארץ ישראל). That, according to them, would result in the Goyim accepting the independent Jewish State as an equal member of the community of nations i.e. ככל הגויים בית ישראל. That is straight כפירות ואפיקורסות גמורה לכל הדעות.

3. There was and is a separate idea of hishtadlus to speed up the Geulah, particularly through יישוב ארץ ישראל, (which as a mitzvah in itself may or may not apply today altogether). This idea of speeding up the Geulah through hishtadlus, but not denying that only Hashem is in control, was the hashkafah of the חובבי ציון movement, which predated Herzl by two decades, and remains the hashkafah of the various forms of Religious Zionism. It is WRT this idea (not the other one) that there were חילוקי דעות among Gedolei Yisroel of that era.

4. Fast forward 120 or so years… (I am not interested in wasting time on rehashing and debating the history, קל וחומר on klering chakiros what could have/should have/would have been if only whatever…) Millions of Yidden live here. Secular Zionism has long since gone out of style. No sane person can claim that Israel has been accepted ‘as an equal member of the community of nations’, or even is in control of its own destiny… Most (all?) of the politicians only care about political survival, not any particular ideology. Those who oppose Yiddishkeit in Israel today do so mainly in the name of Progressive/Post-Modern ideology. Religious Zionism ironically still exists, despite also being despised by the Progressives…

5. This leaves us with a practical set of facts on the ground that have to be dealt with. There are different approaches HOW to deal with the State once it exists, הלא הם כתובים על ספר דברי הימים. I do not consider myself qualified to judge תלמיד חכם זה נאה ותלמיד חכם זה אינו נאה, so I’ll leave it at that… Since we live here, unlike you, we don’t have the luxury of contemplating theoretical scenarios that start with ‘What if?’. Even Satmar etc. agree that there is no scenario על פי דרך הטבע to shut down the State any time in the foreseeable future without massive loss of Jewish life ר״ל. I don’t think any Yid not mentally ill holds that to be an option. And if NOT על פי דרך הטבע, it might as well be ended by Moshiach… Hence, my earlier post. None of this is a סתירה to not believing in either type of Zionism, just a practical reality.

@yaakov yosef

Well said.
.

According to Halachah, it is prohibited for a Jew to leave Eretz Yisrael,
and there are only a few valid heterim, such as parnassah or marriage.

If the State of Israel were “peacefully” dismantled, that would
cause millions of Jews to leave Eretz Yisrael, which is a sin.

If I remember correctly, David HaMelech compared
leaving Eretz Yisrael to worshiping idols.

Therefore, “peacefully” dismantling the State of Israel
would cause 8 million Jews to SIN by leaving Eretz Yisrael,
which is a SIN that is comparable to worshiping idols.

If I remember correctly, Rashi’s commentary on Sefer Yechezkel
teaches that Jews living outside of Eretz Yisrael is a Chillul HaShem.

Therefore, “peacefully” dismantling the State of Israel
would cause 8 million Jews to SIN with Chillul HaShem.
—————————————————————–
(Someone please find the sources for these Torahs.
I used to know these exact sources, but I forgot them.
I could find them again, if I wanted to, but I don’t have the time now.)