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June 21, 2011 8:44 am at 8:44 am #1069687I can only tryMember
am yisrael chai
“last word in the 1st message is decode?“
You got it!
“I’m not a proponent of getting drunk in the middle of davening on ???? ????“
Likewise, I just couldn’t think of any other situation that a person davened everything up until shemona esrai, and then had a sobriety issue.
Hmmm, let’s think about this one…
“How did u manage that?“
Back channel communications – that’s all I can say ?
June 21, 2011 4:14 pm at 4:14 pm #1069688hanibParticipantokay dr. pepper, which means i have no clue what you’re saying. what’s a transcedental function?
i think i should just retreat quietly. seems like my question is like that a 4 year year old might be asking on the gemara when he only knows the aleph, beis.
when i clicked on, what you said to click on – it came to something about pi, and the number kept getting closer and closer to the numerical value of pi. now my brain has no clue what pi is, but it has been programmed to think at the mention of pi – 3.14, 2pir, and pi r squared and circle. so first question that comes to my brain is what does pencils falling on a table have to do with pi.
i’ve never heard of the formula you mentioned, and only math equation i remember is a squared plus b squared is equal to c squared.
so, i guess my question is not answerable in plain english (without numbers) given the lack of knowledge i have.
unless, your answer is that for some reason that can’t be explained (due to my limited knowledge of math) pi is a number that comes up a lot in mathematical formulas. ?
June 21, 2011 4:16 pm at 4:16 pm #1069689hanibParticipanticot – cool way of figuring out what squeak wrote. good for you. serves them right to think of writing a private message to each other, thinking that us mere mortals wouldn’t understand.
thanks for representing us mortals! ?
June 21, 2011 4:30 pm at 4:30 pm #1069690veteranMemberbinahyeseira
my brain has no clue what pi is
Pi is a number between 3 and 4. A convenient number, but just a number.
so first question that comes to my brain is what does pencils falling on a table have to do with pi.
You know that a circle’s circumference is 2*r*pi. You also know that a full circle has 360 degrees. Putting the two together, you get a convenient way to measure angles without using degrees called radians. Mathematicians use radians instead of degrees as a way of further alienating the nonmathematical population. Also because it can be more convenient.
A full circle has 360 degrees and 2*pi radians. If you want to say 90 degrees in radians, it would be pi /2 (because 90 is 1/4 of 360). Now you know how any problem that involves angles involves pi.
June 21, 2011 4:49 pm at 4:49 pm #1069691Dr. PepperParticipantFrom Wikipedia
A transcendental function is a function that does not satisfy a polynomial equation whose coefficients are themselves polynomials, in contrast to an algebraic function, which does satisfy such an equation. In other words, a transcendental function is a function that “transcends” algebra in the sense that it cannot be expressed in terms of a finite sequence of the algebraic operations of addition, multiplication, and root extraction.
Hope this helps.
?
June 21, 2011 5:14 pm at 5:14 pm #1069692hanibParticipantMathematicians use radians instead of degrees as a way of further alienating the nonmathematical population.
LOL!
June 21, 2011 5:16 pm at 5:16 pm #1069693hanibParticipantHope this helps.
?
thanks, now it’s perfectly clear to me.
June 21, 2011 5:17 pm at 5:17 pm #1069694hanibParticipantðŸ˜‰
June 21, 2011 5:56 pm at 5:56 pm #1069695sheinMemberRiddle 1:
A family lives in a round house, they leave there daughter there alone one day, and shes murdered. Working at the house is the butler, the maid, and the chef. The family asks the chef “did you kill the daughter?” He said “no, i was preparing dinner”. They asked the butler “did you kill the daughter?” he said “No, i was hanging up the coats on the coatrack.” They asked the maid “did you kill the daughter?” she said “no, i was in the corner reading a book.”
Who killed the daughter?
June 21, 2011 5:58 pm at 5:58 pm #1069696YW Moderator80Membermaid
no corner in round house
pretty dumb maid
June 21, 2011 5:59 pm at 5:59 pm #1069697sheinMemberRight! Was that too easy? ðŸ™‚
June 21, 2011 6:02 pm at 6:02 pm #1069698I can only tryMemberThe chef.
If it was a round house, it must have been an igloo and the heat of cooking would’ve melted it.
(Why did they need a chef? For the sushi, of course.)
June 21, 2011 6:04 pm at 6:04 pm #1069699hanibParticipantveteran – thanks! that actually made sense to me.
June 21, 2011 6:06 pm at 6:06 pm #1069700I can only tryMemberAhh, but it says the chef was preparing dinner, not cooking it.
Therefore, since the chef, butler and maid all deny it, and they have a chezkas kashrus, they must all be innocent.
The daughter comitted suicide after misbehaving – she was told to stand in the corner and went mad trying to find it.
June 21, 2011 6:07 pm at 6:07 pm #1069701YW Moderator80Membericot
not sure if you are kidding but i had that same idea
however 1. she didnt say it was an igloo, but thats a minor point
2. i think eskimos cook in the igloo, isnt that the main reason for the chimney? i think the heat just hardens the walls.
June 21, 2011 6:10 pm at 6:10 pm #1069702YW Moderator80MemberCooking is done over a seal oillamp. A soapstone pot is hung over the lamp, continuously providing a soup or cooked meat whenever it is needed. The hunters catch seal, caribou and fish which the women prepare and cook. Sometimes meat is left to freeze and thin slices cut and eaten raw.
Read more: Life in an Igloo  eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/about_6513672_lifeigloo.html#ixzz1Pw3USvGR
June 21, 2011 6:14 pm at 6:14 pm #1069703I can only tryMemberNo potato kugel? How uncivilized.
(Yes, I was kidding. If you’re starting to think like me, get help. Fast.)
June 21, 2011 6:40 pm at 6:40 pm #1069704blinkyParticipantHow did she die? This is a very intriguing story
June 21, 2011 6:44 pm at 6:44 pm #1069705YW Moderator80Memberblinky yes it is interesting.
icot already explained the cause of death.
suicide secondary to insanity.
June 21, 2011 6:55 pm at 6:55 pm #1069706blinkyParticipantIcot They serve cold cuts instead
June 21, 2011 6:57 pm at 6:57 pm #1069707am yisrael chaiParticipant“secondary to insanity”
ahh, that explains her thinking, reshaping the rounded house with her in a straight jacket…
(no wonder she couldn’t get to the corner)
June 21, 2011 7:56 pm at 7:56 pm #1069708veteranMemberA family lives in a round house, they leave there daughter there alone one day, and shes murdered. Working at the house is the butler, the maid, and the chef. The family asks the chef “did you kill the daughter?” He said “no, i was preparing dinner”. They asked the butler “did you kill the daughter?” he said “No, i was hanging up the coats on the coatrack.” They asked the maid “did you kill the daughter?” she said “no, i was in the corner reading a book.”
Who killed the daughter?
We don’t know who killed the daughter. All we know is that the maid is a liar. In fact, I bet no one killed the daughter – the narrator is probably a liar too. And once we determined that the narrator is a liar, there is no reason to believe that the house is round, either.
I can’t believe I didn’t visit this thread before!
June 21, 2011 8:11 pm at 8:11 pm #1069709YW Moderator80Memberveteran
you are right
in the real world.
however this episode took place in Riddle World
which has its own rules and logic
in Riddle World there are people who always lie
there are unlabeled boxes of fruit which no one is allowed to look into but is free to remove one piece from
and other such anomolies.
June 21, 2011 8:11 pm at 8:11 pm #1069710blinkyParticipantI just thought of something. Whose coats was the butler hanging up?
June 21, 2011 8:28 pm at 8:28 pm #1069711EnglishmanMemberAre you the maid blinky? You sound quite guilty.
June 21, 2011 8:40 pm at 8:40 pm #1069712blinkyParticipantNot at all! After moderator 80 said that the maid is dumb…no way! I won’t take credit for this murder.
Im an investigator
June 21, 2011 8:44 pm at 8:44 pm #1069713veteranMemberEsteemed Mod
Is in not likely that in Riddle World there are some narrators who always lie?
Even if we assume the narrator is completely objective and truthful, what evidence do we have against the maid? I would argue that her lie points to the state of her mind affected by the tragic news and not to habitual lying. I would guess that upon investigation her true alibi will be discovered. On the other hand, the butler and the cook displayed shocking coolness under the circumstances. The callousness could indicate premeditation or the fact that they are habitual liars.
Everyone knows that the butler always did it, so it makes sense that he would be unaffected by the murder much like a homicide detective is completely desensitized. Thus, the cook is the most likely culprit.
June 21, 2011 8:50 pm at 8:50 pm #1069714YW Moderator80Memberyour logic is staggeringly impressive!
nevertheless you fail to understand Riddle World
im not capable of explaining it but it its rules are consistent and have their own logic. which is often quite illogical. kind of like quantum theory.
i once visited there. you can check out anytime you want, but you can never leave. i would recommend staying away.
June 21, 2011 9:09 pm at 9:09 pm #1069715I can only tryMemberFood for Thought
1??????? ?????????
??????? ?????????
2??????? ???????
??????? ???????
3????????? ?????????
????????? ?????????
4??????????? ???????????
??????????? ???????????
5????????? ???????????????
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
????????? ???????????????Clues:
1) An explosivelyformed snack.
2) Soemone who is an expert at stunts; a showoff.
3) Soft drink “Tab” was an early type of this.
4) “Oaf” and “Punchy” were cartoon characters who promoted this drink (the generic name of the nonalcoholic variety).
5) Use the letters that go in the dotted boxes of the first four answers to form a twoword description of nature’s perfect food.
Bonus: list the common name of that food.
June 21, 2011 9:15 pm at 9:15 pm #1069716YW Moderator80Member1. puffed wheat
2. my brother
3. fodder for j.a.p jokes
4. doesnt ring a bell
5. dont think thats possible
June 22, 2011 10:55 am at 10:55 am #1069717I can only tryMemberbinahyeseira–
“serves them right to think of writing a private message to each other, thinking that us mere mortals wouldn’t understand.
thanks for representing us mortals! “
That’ll teach them to be smart!!
Lets hear it for the proletariat!
Moderator80–
“1. puffed wheat” ==> pretty close, actually
“2. my brother” ==> hi, bro!
June 22, 2011 10:56 am at 10:56 am #1069718I can only tryMemberIce Cream, You Scream
The puzzle is as follows:
Alpha was given the product of the first number multiplied by the second.
Beta was given the sum of the first number plus the second.
Charlie was given the result of the first number minus the second (it was not a negative number).
Professor Garlick then asked his children if they knew the numbers.
They answered in the following order:
What were the numbers that allowed the Garlick children to enjoy their favorite Blueberry, CookieDough, MintChip ice cream sundaes?
(from a puzzle magazine. except for the icecream flavors)
June 22, 2011 2:38 pm at 2:38 pm #1069719am yisrael chaiParticipantPerhaps we can collaborate as we did in that cute country jumble puzzle.
This is what I have so far:
1. pop corn
2. ?
3. diet soda
4. fruit punch
Anyone have #2?
June 22, 2011 2:46 pm at 2:46 pm #1069720am yisrael chaiParticipantIcot
It seems that several digits fit the bill, so how are you isolating to one set of 2 digits?
June 22, 2011 6:36 pm at 6:36 pm #1069721I can only tryMemberam yisrael chai
You’re 3for3 with the “Food for Thought” puzzle.
The one you’re missing is a popular fast food.
============================
On the “Ice Cream, You Scream” puzzle, there are only two numbers that work for all four children to correctly get the answers.
The order of the “Yes” answers is important – Delta couldn’t have solved her part without the prior “yes”s.
If you would like a bit of a hint:
– neither number is zero (Alpha’s product must be unique)
– 4 and 2 aren’t the numbers because their product is the same as 8 and 1. This can be extrapolated to other numbers, too.
– It can’t be a double number (11, 22, 33, etc.), because those will always subtract to zero.
If you’d like to cheat:
1) Create a list of all unique twonumber combinations in columns A and B of a spreadsheet. You can omit zeros, doublenumbers, and revered combinations (e.g. 18, 81).
2) The formula for column C will be A*B. All rows that have nonunique column C values can be eliminated.
3) The formula for column D will be A+B. All rows that have nonunique column D values can be eliminated.
4) The formula for column E will be AB (or BA – whatever the larger minus the smaller is). All rows that have nonunique column E values can be eliminated.
5) The formula for column F will be (D + E) / C. All rows that have nonunique column F values can be eliminated. Only 1 row will be left.
June 22, 2011 8:13 pm at 8:13 pm #1069722am yisrael chaiParticipant2. hot dog
5. spud pudding
potato kugel
funny
June 22, 2011 8:50 pm at 8:50 pm #1069723veteranMemberWhat in the world is spud pudding?
June 22, 2011 11:55 pm at 11:55 pm #1069724I can only tryMemberam yisrael chai–
Not bad atall – you got it!
(Funny??? I never joke about potato kugel ?)
veteran–
Spud Pudding = Potato Kugel
Spud = Potato and potato kugel is sometimes called potato pudding.
I thought it might be too obscure, but “am yisrael chai” proved otherwise.
June 28, 2011 1:42 am at 1:42 am #1069725I can only tryMemberIce Cream, You Scream – Answer
The two numbers are 1 and 5.
The following are the possible numbers that would give Alpha a unique result to “a * b”, assuming the two numbers are different and neither is zero:
12, 13, 14, 15, 17, 19, 25, 27, 28, 35, 37, 39, 45, 47, 48, 49, 56, 57, 58, 59, 67, 68, 69, 78, 79, 89.
Of the above groups, the following would give Beta a unique result to “a + b”:
12, 13, 14, 15, 25, 79, 89.
Of the above groups, the following would give Charlie a unique result to “b – a”:
15
Delta is given the result of “((1 + 5) + (5 – 1)) / (1 * 5)” which is 2. Delta didn’t even need this result, as Charlie’s “yes” answer left only the one possibility, anyway.
Yum, Yum. Blueberry, CookieDough, MintChip ice cream sundaes.
(Unfortunately, the Garlick’s taste in icecream flavors wasn’t as astute as their logic skills.)
July 26, 2011 4:43 pm at 4:43 pm #1069726am yisrael chaiParticipantIcot
It’s been a month, more than enough time to give up the decoding secret for which you have permission from Squeak…:)
July 26, 2011 4:48 pm at 4:48 pm #1069727am yisrael chaiParticipantWhat was Moshe Rabeinu’s last name?
??????? ðŸ™‚
July 26, 2011 4:50 pm at 4:50 pm #1069728am yisrael chaiParticipantWhen must one daven ????? ???? a second time if he eats or drinks something? (It can be any food or drink; it doesn’t have to be coffee.)
July 26, 2011 5:12 pm at 5:12 pm #1069729am yisrael chaiParticipantAnswer:
If someone davened sh’mone esrei in middle of seudas shlishis (before bentching), AND forgot Atah Chonantanu, AND ate or drank something afterwards (before bentching, before making havdala), the halacha is that he must daven sh’mone esrei again.
July 26, 2011 9:25 pm at 9:25 pm #1069730Dr. PepperParticipantThis was posted here before (spelling mistake and all, on page 22 if you give up).
Enjoy
There are two unknown whole numbers, x and y, both greater than 1, and less than 100. One mathematician, Mr. Product is given the product of these two numbers, while another mathematician, Mr. Sum is given the sum of these two numbers.
The following conversation takes place:
Mr. Product: I do not know the numbers.
Mr. Sum: I knew you didn’t knew the numbers.
Mr. Product: Now I know the numbers
Mr. Sum: Now I know the numbers, too.
What are the numbers?
July 26, 2011 11:12 pm at 11:12 pm #1069731am yisrael chaiParticipant1 <x <100
1 <y <100
Since Mr. Product can’t figure out the #s, then the product of x*y has multiple factors and x & y can’t both be prime #s.
How would Mr. Sum know that Mr. Product wouldn’t know the #s?
I dunno.
Mr. Sum knows the sum of x+y. The sum cannot be even, since all positive even integers can be expressed as the sum of 2 prime #s. (TRY IT, you’ll see, and that will be your fun for this summer…)
Therefore, the sum must be odd.
If the sum is odd, then one number is odd and the other is even.
(TRY IT, you’ll see, and that will be more fun for you this summer…)
If one # is odd & the other # is even, then the product must be even.
(TRY IT, …ok, you know this by now ðŸ™‚ )
So what we have so far:
– X&Y are not both primes
– x+y is odd
– x is odd & y is even (or viceversa)
Now it’s trial & error (mostly error…)
July 27, 2011 1:13 am at 1:13 am #1069732I can only tryMemberam yisrael chai
OK.
Typically, in cryptogram solving, you would look for things such as letter frequency, doubleletters, frequent letter combinations, singleletter words and other patternrelated items.
Replacing all D, R, P and E left this:
Replacing all M and T left this:
Replacing all I, O, W, N and A left this:
MEET AT ‘D MIDTOWN MANHATTAN
===========================================
What was Moshe Rabeinu’s last name?
??????? ðŸ™‚
Same last name as the famous author of Westerns ?
===========================================
I wonder if he had said boruch hamavdil, would he still have to daven again.
July 27, 2011 5:06 am at 5:06 am #1069733am yisrael chaiParticipantIcot
Welcome back!
I got about just as far as you wrote, maybe a drop more (I had asked you previously if the last word was decode), but did so differently, so could you please continue your process?
(I was decoding in a “guessing” way also but I thought there should be a more methodical way of decoding)
Also, how did you link Joseph’s post to “this post?”
And why did you use that post as an aid?
TIA
July 27, 2011 5:08 am at 5:08 am #1069734am yisrael chaiParticipantCan someone explain in a methodical, clear way the continuation of the solution for the product/sum riddle above?
July 27, 2011 12:03 pm at 12:03 pm #1069735I can only tryMemberam yisrael chai
Welcome back!
Thank you, but I haven’t gone anywhere.
OK, to continue:
The first word on the second line is clearly “MONDAY”. This gives us the Y, leaving:
MEET AT ‘D MIDTOWN MANHATTAN
The last line pretty clearly is “SAY OK WHEN YOU DECODE”
This gives us the S, K, U and C, leaving:
MEET AT KD MIDTOWN MANHATTAN
SAY OK WHEN YOU DECODE
The first two words on line 3 are clearly “ILL HAVE”.
The cryptogram is now solved, except for the time.
Also, how did you link Joseph’s post to “this post?”
Like so:
<strong><a href="http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/theriddlethread/page/8#post17125">this post</a></strong>
The “strong” tags bold the text, and the “a” tags make it a link.
And why did you use that post as an aid?
As a demo of “shortcut” usage in decryption.
Can someone explain in a methodical, clear way the continuation of the solution for the product/sum riddle above?
“Dr. Pepper” did so, where the riddle was originally posted. He started with odd/even and prime number logic similar to yours.
==========================
To find the “haiku” thread, go to Google and put the following line, verbatim, in the search window:
haiku site:http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom
August 2, 2011 4:55 pm at 4:55 pm #1069736splendaMemberDr. Pepper
How did you translate squeak’s message? I ask since ICOT missed one component using his method and you didn’t.

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