July 29, 2008 2:40 am at 2:40 am #1166281
“nobody here bashes the gedolim”? You just did in the other thread about tzinius! (And you are hardly the only one.) You made choizek of Rav Shmuel Kamenetzky, Rav Ephraim Wachsman, Rav Mattisyahu Solomon et. al. by making pathetic jokes about what they said regarding the tzinius crisis. They said there is one, YOU (in you great wisdom, greater than theirs obviously in your personal evaluation) said they are wrong.July 30, 2008 12:12 am at 12:12 am #1166282BogenParticipant
What kind of question is WHY Yidden are the best?
We just are!
We are G-D’s CHOSEN NATION!!July 30, 2008 2:11 pm at 2:11 pm #1166283WolfishMusingsParticipant
I still find it interesting that no one answered my question from the first page. The best WHAT?
The WolfJuly 30, 2008 5:32 pm at 5:32 pm #1166284
The best Nation.
The best People.
The most holy people.
The chosen nation.
Why did Hashem choose us?
Because we were and are the best!July 30, 2008 9:08 pm at 9:08 pm #1166285yoshiMember
We may have the “potential” to be the best, but unfortunately some do not achieve it.July 30, 2008 9:38 pm at 9:38 pm #1166286williMember
We yidden are the best
better than the rest
when put to the test
we pass it with zest!
when something’s on our chest
or we find ourselves all messed (up)
just turn to the “west”
He hears every request
our bitachon keeps us “fest”
I’m not saying this in jest
jews are hardly depressed
because we feel so blessed!!July 30, 2008 9:40 pm at 9:40 pm #1166287
Some look at the cup as half full. Others see it half empty.July 30, 2008 11:52 pm at 11:52 pm #1166288Pashuteh YidMember
Willi, that was beautiful. Did you write it yourself?
Were you trying to say that we rise to the crest whenever we get dressed?July 31, 2008 8:10 am at 8:10 am #1166293
That was a great poem, willi, and deep too. maybe you should send it in to the yated.July 31, 2008 8:46 am at 8:46 am #1166294
Pashutah: When we say that Yidden are the best, we refer to TORAH yidden. Because it is the Torah that defines a yid. (of course even if someone is not frum he can still be Jewish, but he hardly carries the flag of Judaism, nor is he recognised as a Jew) So Weitzman, Olmert and the (non religous)zionists are not part of this discussion bichlal. And your whole dugmah with the 98% just doesnt make any sense.
Yes, when we count the Jewish population, we include ALL jews, but even if we wanted to say that when we say yidden are the best we include all 2%, every rule can have exeptions without invalidating the rule.
Anyway, what was your point? That Olmert and Weitzman are really “the best” along with us, or that we are as bad as them?July 31, 2008 8:56 am at 8:56 am #1166295
Dr. Pepper, I like your idea. Here’s a true story. I heard it from a shabbos guest recently.:
He was backing his car out one day when he banged into another car. He got out and searched around but he didn’t find anyone. So, he stuck a note on the windowshield with his contact info and drove off. Two days later, he gets a call from an autobody shop in regards to the incident.
The Yid said, “oh I’m glad you called.I would like to pay for the damage”
The mechanic said, “I just have one question for you: Are you an orthodox Jew?”
The Yid said, “Yes. Why do you ask?”
He said, “I knew it. The car you banged into belongs to a client of mine who was just here this week fixing her car. She had just picked it up when you banged into it again, so understandably she was very upset. When she brought in her car, I said to her, that from experience I bet you that this is an orthodox Jew. If it is, i told her I’d fix the car free of charge.” And he did.
As Pesach krohn would say, You know who made the kiddush Hashem? Not just the guy who wrote the note, but every other Orthodox Jew who did the same, and shaped the goy’s opinion on Jews.
That’s a Yid!July 31, 2008 9:07 am at 9:07 am #1166296
First of all, you can be dan lkaf zechus the bikur cholim guy. Maybe he didn’t see you trying to pull into that spot until it was too late.
2.I think it’s a bit presumptious of you to decide that he probably forfeited his schar for the mitzvah or that he blew it. That is Hashem’s cheshbon, not yours. However, you instead can ask yousef where else besides for by the Yidden do we see the concept of Bikur cholim, and the massive chessed machine that satmar bikur cholim runs is nothing to sneeze at.
mi keamcha yisroel!July 31, 2008 9:31 am at 9:31 am #1166297
Some people feel uncomfortable with the word “best” here. (I’m not sure why but to each his own)Maybe they would feel more comfortable with this well-known idea.
I think it’s the RaMBaM who classifies the differnt life forms. The lowest is the Domeim, the inatimate object. The next level is the Tzomeach, the plant. Next is Chai, animal, and the one above that is Medaber, the human being who is defined by his intellect and ability to speak. Each level is superior to the one before. But there’s another level which is called Yisroel, who is the most superior of all . The point is that we are as different from the goy as a human is to an animal.
We may look the same, and sometimes act the same, but our neshama has a completely different make-up. we are simply from a different min alltogether.
We are as different to the Amim as Kodesh is to Chol, and as Ohr is to Choshech, as we say in avdala, because Hashem made us different.
This idea is not supposed to make us feel gaavah, but it’s supposed to imbue us with a higher sense of purpose and mission in this world.
Another point I see to this discussion, is that some people have the unfortunate affliction to always go looking in the “fields of moav” for greener pastures. They look to the goyim for inspiration or wisdom. But the truth is that the Wisdom is with us, because we have the Torah which is the source of all wisdom.
A case in point: Many paople like to read parenting books written by non-Jews. The machanchim in the Torah world warn us against this because they are filled with many anti-Torah ideas which we may not always pick up on. But another reason is because they simply will not work! Because those books were written with the goyish kid in mind. A Yiddish child has a different neshoma and therefore a different spiritual make-up! So how can it work for a Yid?
It’s true we have problems in our community (many of which are inumerated and exagerated in the pages of these rooms) But as a group, we are b”h in far better shape than the goyim, spiritually, emotionally and socially. If all you can see is that we are supposed to be better, but we aren’t, maybe you should examine yourself, and/or see who you associate yourself with.July 31, 2008 3:14 pm at 3:14 pm #1166299anon for thisParticipant
Do you mean to say that you would never use any medication/ medical procedure/ medical research that’s been tested on animals, or non-Jews? After all, if an animal or a non-Jew (I’m not equating the two, obviously) are so different from you, anything tested on them wouldn’t work for someone on your level of existence. Or would you never use anything invented by someone who isn’t Jewish?
Actually I think it would be more correct to say that certain natural laws apply to every category of existence. For example, gravity affects all existence, including domeim. Every living creature, including Tzomeach, needs some form of food & water. Similarly, Chai, M’daber, and Yisroel all have certain natural drives. And obviously M’daber & Yisroel are similar in many ways too: all people have a capacity for intellect & morality that’s non-existent in animals. The difference is that Yisroel has another spritual dimension that M’daber lacks.
Just as medical advances & scientific discoveries apply to M’daber & Yisroel apply to all of us, so too can other innovations, including parenting books (assuming that these have been checked for anti-Torah ideas).
I think that all of us agree that as Jews we do have a higher spiritual purpose; as such, we should expect more of ourselves than of the non-Jews around us, and comparisons to non-Jews are therefore irrelevant. Rather, we should all be the best we can be. After all, to follow your argument, would you bother writing about how you are superior to an animal?July 31, 2008 4:57 pm at 4:57 pm #1166300
Your car accident story reminds me of a couple of incidents that we had.
The first occurred several years ago in Kensington when we sideswiped a double-parked car. We left a note for the owner. When he called back we ended up arranging for him to have it repaired at a nearby collision shop (Speedy Rental / Dahill auto repair, run by two Chasidishe brothers [Abe and Yanky], very erlich, nice and reasonably priced). The owner of the damaged vehicle turned out not to be Jewish, so it is nice to hear that this type of thing makes a good roishum. There is a yetzer hora to run away, but bottom line is that we were supposed to lose a few hundred dollars, and we certainly would have lost it another way (aside from the genaiva).
The second incident comes with a shailo.
Somebody parked one night edged into our driveway about a foot-and-a-half. When we pulled into our driveway we damaged part of his car that was edged in. We left a note, and in this case it turned out the person was a young frum guy, who had only edged into our driveway to make room for the person behind him. Legally we were obligated for the damage, so we paid most of it (he was mochel about fifty dollars).
My question is:
Although we paid since legally we were liable and dina dimalchusa dina, if dina dimalchusa did not apply here would we still be responsible here? Would he be responsible for our damages? This is not nogeah limaseh, but I am curious as to the halacha.
Opinions are welcome, but if someone (who knows hilchos mamanos and nizikin better than I do) can point out a basis for what they believe the halocha should be I would appreciate it.
Thank you.July 31, 2008 9:01 pm at 9:01 pm #1166301Native IsraeliMember
my answer to the question,”why Yidden are the best”:
the list is forever
just listen to lipas tizke l’mitzvas song(after tisha b’av)July 31, 2008 9:48 pm at 9:48 pm #1166302rabbiofberlinParticipant
mmm…”Think BIG” you wrote; (of course,even if someone is not frum he can still be Jewish……nor is he recognized as a Jew) HUH? is he or isn’t he a jew? By the way, last time I learned the first mishne of “chelek” it said “kol yisroel jesh lohem chelek le’olam habo”. The world “kol” in hebrew means – i think- “ALL”. SO, I would say that weizman, einstein even freud may be part of this discussion,sinply becuase Hashem Yisboraxch gave us jews that great matonoh “torah’ and all wisdom, even secular wisodom derives from it.August 1, 2008 1:44 am at 1:44 am #1166305
I can only try:
Your story of the guy blocking your driveway brings up some very interesting halachic points. One point I wish to address is that since the other party was a Yid, by dinei mamanos between two yidden, halacha applies as to who owes who money (or does not owe.) Dina dmalchusa dina is irrelevant in this regard.
In fact Maran Hagoen HaRav Eliyashev Shlita paskened that dina dmalchusa dina never applies between ben adom lchaveiroi (even non-dinei mamanos situations.) Others disagree with this, but regarding mamanos matters I don’t know of anyone who paskens dina dmalchusa dina applies.
Regarding your other halachic inquries, I can’t accurately respond.August 1, 2008 3:53 am at 3:53 am #1166306
anon for this:
“Do you mean to say that you would never use any medication/ medical procedure/ medical research that’s been tested on animals, or non-Jews? After all, if an animal or a non-Jew (I’m not equating the two, obviously) are so different from you, anything tested on them wouldn’t work for someone on your level of existence. Or would you never use anything invented by someone who isn’t Jewish?”
You either miread or misunderstood my post. I said we look the same but we have a different spiritual makeup. that means that in the physical wrelm we most certainly would benefit from medicine, etc tested on non-jews. in many ways we are similar to animals too, as you said.
But all the rest of your post is taking the warped idea and running with it.
As far as using parenting books, that’s different, because there we deal with the emotional/spiritual component of the child. So I don’t agree with your conclusion, that “Just as medical advances & scientific discoveries apply to M’daber & Yisroel apply to all of us, so too can other innovations, including parenting books (assuming that these have been checked for anti-Torah ideas).”
“I think that all of us agree that as Jews we do have a higher spiritual purpose; as such, we should expect more of ourselves than of the non-Jews around us, and comparisons to non-Jews are therefore irrelevant. Rather, we should all be the best we can be. After all, to follow your argument, would you bother writing about how you are superior to an animal? “
I didn’t start this post but I assumed the the purpose was to encourage people to take pride in our abilities and uniquness and recognize the obligations we have thefore. Unfortunately some people who post their comments here seem to be unaware or deluded in this regard.August 1, 2008 4:14 am at 4:14 am #1166307
I can only try
Thanks for your interesting stories. As far as the halacha question, dinei mamunos questions are very intricate and you’d be best off asking a competent rav.
It seems you have an unusual knack for distorting or misreading the posts. But maybe I was not so clear, so I’ll try to clarify.
“mmm…”Think BIG” you wrote; (of course,even if someone is not frum he can still be Jewish……nor is he recognized as a Jew) HUH? is he or isn’t he a jew?”
meaning, he IS technically, halachically a Jew without question. But he is not RECOGNIZABLY JEWISH. If you look at him or talk to him you may not know he is a jew, and he may not know it either. (unless you are one of those experts who can always spot a jew by his nose..:) The point of this sentense in the post was to say that when we say “Jews are the best” we dont mean that the Jewish “race ” is a superior race. Saying so would be like what the Aryans claimed. Rather it is the Torah which we keep that makes us the best. Jews by birth, who were raised without torah, behave just like goyim. And a goy, who converts to Judaism are included in the term “Jews are Best”
Also, what in the world does the mishne have to do with anything. Kol Yisroel yesh lahem chelek refers to the world to come. we are talking about how people behave in this world. Weitzman etc, surely received a share in the world to come. I don’t know what type of share, but again, I don’t think they were the focus of this conversation. see thepost by NativeIsrael, it expresses it beautifully. Those organizations are only run by Frum People.
“…einstein even freud may be part of this discussion,sinply becuase Hashem Yisboraxch gave us jews that great matonoh “torah’ and all wisdom, even secular wisodom derives from it. “
This too seems circular.The torah contains all wisdom- true. But does that mean anybody that majors in any wisdom should be part of the discussion?. The fact that Einstien and Freud were Jewish is completely BESIDE THE POINT because they did not study the Torah and extrapolate its wisdom to arrive at their conclusions.August 1, 2008 3:23 pm at 3:23 pm #1166309
There are 4 levels: Inanimate [Domem], Sessile Life [Tzome’ach], Animal Life [Chai], and Human [M’daber]. The level ‘Jew’ [Yisroel] is the invention of some egotistical Jews. There is no such level.
Levels: Inanimate, Sessile Life, Animal Life, Man.August 1, 2008 8:55 pm at 8:55 pm #1166311
Gut Shabbos to all.August 3, 2008 3:21 am at 3:21 am #1166313rabbiofberlinParticipant
think big, well thank you for the clarification that “recognized’ means actual physical recognition.
My point about the mishne was that jews have an inherent zechus to be Jewish, regardless of how they behave in life. This, obviously, makes every jew special, even if he is totally separated from Klal Yisroel. I guess that I am allergic to a sentence that says : “Jews by birth, who were raised without, behave just like goyim”. Maybe. But I sure would not say anything negative about any jew. This is ultimately the essence of “ahavas yisroel”, to love every single Jew, regardless of where he is spiritually or what he does in life. Ultimately,we are all responsible for vour Jewish brothers and sisters.
Concerning your remark about wisdom and its roots. If you believe that the Torah is the source of all wisdom , then all wisdom will emanate from it, wherever it lands. So Einstein and Freud indeed do receive their wisdom from the Torah. And maybe, just maybe, they being born Jewish gives them an extra edge. How else would you explain the absolute abundance of Jewish Nobel Prizes , especially in the sciences. Maybe it is the fact that they were born jewish and in their neshomo, they are Jewish?August 3, 2008 7:04 am at 7:04 am #1166315
Give me a break:
As I wrote in my post, I think it’s the RamBam who added the last level, “Yisroel”.(but I’m not sure) I would be more careful before I call the Rambam an “egotistical Jew”, especially since all you’re doing is displaying your ignorance. If you have never heard of a concept, it doesn’t mean it was “made up.”
This is a concept i learned in school several times, but since i’m out of school for a while, I don’t remember the source. Maybe some of the Talmidei chachamim on this blog can help me out here and take “Mr. break” out of his ignorance. I will also, bez”h try to research it.August 3, 2008 7:38 am at 7:38 am #1166316
rabbi of berlin:
You write: Maybe. But I sure would not say anything negative about any jew.
Really? are you the one who calls litvish people
“elitists” and the the biggest “sonei yisroel”?
Do you recognise the post below:
“found the editorials nauseating. It is an elitist, arrogant approach to yiddishkeit, which has become the trademark of the litvishe Jewish world. Smug, feeding upon the medinah they so hate, dismissing anyone who does not agree with them. i wonder what Rabbi Lipschutz would have written in 1945…”
–or the next one?
“Unfortunately, the litvishe oilam has become so extreme and so narrow-minded “
(Or did you by any chance mean its only not okay to say anything negative about anti-Chareidim?)
“Ultimately, we are all responsible for our Jeish brothers and sisters.” That is one thing we agree on.
as to your last piece, I said, ” they did not study the torah and extrapolate its wisdom to arrive at their conclusions.” It’s a foregone conclusion that any real wisdom which is true stems from the torah. The reason why there is an abundance of Jewish Nobel Prizes in my opinion is because the Jews have passed down from the ages many special qualities, such as incisive thinking, questioning, perseverance (hasmadah), etc, honed through generations of learning gemara.
BTW (don’t answer if you dont want to) Are you the rabbi of berlin who lives in monsey?August 3, 2008 6:27 pm at 6:27 pm #1166317
I can only try:
Please report back your Rav’s comments on this, as I’d (and I’m sure others) would be interested.
Also, if you think about it, if your original assumption would have been correct, it would essentially have meant that secular law would override halacha anytime they were in conflict, due to dina dmalchusa dina. That would obviously be wrong.August 5, 2008 4:31 pm at 4:31 pm #1166318
I will B”N do so.
If the rav I ask gives his OK, I will also mention his name.
I am a terrible procrastinator, so it may not be that quick, but since at least one person is now waiting on this the incentive to get up and ask exists.
The reason I will ask the rav for his permission to quote something in his name is that in the past I asked Rav Belsky shlita for a psak and then asked if he could be quoted to others he gave the OK, but when I asked a Rosh Yeshiva about kashering a microwave for Pesach, he said technically it was OK, but it shouldn’t be done, and when I was leaving yeshiva to enter the business world I asked my Rosh Yeshiva about shaking hands with women and he said “it is muttar, but you shouldn’t” – I took the last two statements as applying for me personally, and not for public attribution.
One note about dina dimalchusa – I was told that it may apply even where it contradicts halacha, such as capital punishment in the USA, since it has a malchus shel chessed and the punishment is applied fairly to all people. This is NOT a psak I was given but it was mentioned during learning by someone whose learning I respect.August 5, 2008 9:06 pm at 9:06 pm #1166319
I can only try:
Thank You! Looking forward…
Capital punishment is not carried out by Yidden (in America.) So I don’t see why it would even be a question if dina dmalchusa would apply to it or not. (They secular courts will carry out such a sentence.)August 15, 2008 4:30 pm at 4:30 pm #1166336ujmParticipant
I agree wholeheartedly!August 18, 2008 6:17 pm at 6:17 pm #1166337BogenParticipant
What is there not to agree with such a fact anyways (that Yidden are the best)?
Its like “agreeing” that 1+1=2.August 25, 2008 9:37 pm at 9:37 pm #1166338DocParticipant
shuali said this on a post in the main site, and I thought it worthwhile and appropriate reposting to this thread:September 12, 2008 5:45 pm at 5:45 pm #1166339
We’re not. Jews and gentiles are like lions and tigers – we don’t mix, but we’re not BETTER, just DIFFERENT. Got that, “Rabbeinu” Joseph?September 12, 2008 6:37 pm at 6:37 pm #1166340
No. We are BETTER. (And certainly not worth arguing with an abortion/toeiva supporter such as yourself.)September 14, 2008 7:05 pm at 7:05 pm #1166341favishMember
to give me a break your comment here, page 5, is in synct with your deyous nifsudos on you postinr regarding the mccain ad that you desperately wanted to be deleted…sp bnoygayah here like on mentoined just take one sample of myriad og good the am yisroel have which cannot be duplicated by anyone is ‘hatzolah ‘, no it cannot and too long to elaborate we will have to touch too many pratim so we leave it to the reader imagination .September 14, 2008 7:42 pm at 7:42 pm #1166342charliehallParticipant
Last month I attended a research conference in Spain. I was the only guy there in a kipah. As the conference was ending I wanted to print out my boarding pass for my trip back to the US. The bank of computers to be used by the conference participants was being shut down. I found the speakers’ ready room, which still had one computer that was still turned on. I asked if I could use if for a few minutes to print out my boarding pass and the technician said it was ok, even though he was clearly in a hurry to get out of the building before he was kicked out.
He asked where I was going and I told him “Newark”. He complained that he was unable to print out his boarding pass. I asked him why, and he said, “security”. It turned out that the technician was a secular Jew from Israel and his airline required that the boarding pass only be issued at the airport. He was a model of good midot and helped me print out mine, though! I think he realized that there was another Jew he could help, and he went out of his way to do so even though it cost him time.
I was proud to be a Jew that day. So was he. My brother Jew.September 14, 2008 9:23 pm at 9:23 pm #1166343
Prove it!September 14, 2008 10:50 pm at 10:50 pm #1166344SarahBMember
“Why Yidden are the BEST!”
We as a nation stick together, and watch out for each other, that incident which just happened in Williamsburg, is proof of that.September 14, 2008 11:31 pm at 11:31 pm #1166345
That is an example of the wonderful acts of kindness that Klal Yisroel performs. But we aren’t better because we’re Jews.September 15, 2008 1:50 pm at 1:50 pm #1166347
Another proof Yidden are the best:
Ever heard of a goy still trying to find someone he inadvertently damaged 13 years ago to pay him back?September 15, 2008 2:25 pm at 2:25 pm #1166348
Give Me a Break said:
“That is an example of the wonderful acts of kindness that Klal Yisroel performs. But we aren’t better because we’re Jews.”
Please define better. If you mean that we commit less crime, more kindness, etc. than you must bring statistical proof, which I do not have. (If you do, please post public data statistical proof one way or the other).
If you mean loved by Hashem, we are his children and they are not.
If you mean able to fulfill the purpose of creation, we are able to and they are not. (they do have the ability to become Jewish and do so, but not while they are in their current state).
The poster was asking with examples of kindness by Jews, which he wanted people to publicize. If you do not have any examples, then you do not add anything to the discussion.September 15, 2008 4:39 pm at 4:39 pm #1166351squeakParticipant
You want statistical proof? Here is some:
97% of all crimes are perpetrated by Jews.
-source: Weimar Republic.September 15, 2008 8:13 pm at 8:13 pm #1166352
Everyone knows that Joseph has the biggest Jewish ego the world has ever seen. Also, if you’re “at work,” why are you on the computer?
Thanks.September 15, 2008 9:04 pm at 9:04 pm #1166353
Give Me a Break:
1) Don’t know him, but not Mekabel.
2) An understanding boss/company who doesn’t mind as long as the job is done.
3) Still didn’t answer the question posed. However, if you do not wish to answer, I will try not to bother you further on this thread. One is not responsible to answer all those who have questions.
You are correct, and as such statistical proof would not be proof. After all, even today it is illegal in some countries to be jewish, so you could say all Jews are criminals! Thank you for the point.September 15, 2008 9:25 pm at 9:25 pm #1166354
I think I mean to quote the Wolf on this one:
At the risk of sounding silly, let me ask you to qualify your statement:
Yidden are the absolute best WHAT?
Posted 2 months ago #September 21, 2008 10:09 pm at 10:09 pm #1166355
“Why Yidden are the BEST!”
I dunno, why?September 22, 2008 3:19 pm at 3:19 pm #1166356
Because we even tolerate a nice person such as yourself.September 22, 2008 3:44 pm at 3:44 pm #1166357SarahBMember
“Why Yidden are the BEST!”
Give Me a Break “I dunno, why?”
Joseph “Because we even tolerate a nice person such as yourself.”
Ha Ha Ha that cracked me up! There’s another reason right their. Our sense of humor!September 23, 2008 12:52 am at 12:52 am #1166358
No joke. Who else would tolerate Give Me a Break?September 23, 2008 12:17 pm at 12:17 pm #1166359
I would.December 9, 2008 5:57 am at 5:57 am #1166360
Nu, lets hear more reasons Why Yidden are the BEST!
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