From Dooms.

“Folks, PROOF 2Cents is a Liar:”

Hey, you dont need any proof, I am OK with you calling people names, But can we act like grownups and look at the data for a moment?

Why would my integrity matter here unless you do not care about the facts?

Or you assume that we all makeup facts like you do.

Dooms,

“he Fraud is that Phillipine Vaccine Schedule has only a FRACTION of ALUMINUM that the CDC Schedule has”

You know that until you do not prove what you wrote, no one will take your word for it.

“BEFORE 1992, the Fake researchers ONLY counted autistic children in HOSPITALS. AFTER 1992, the Fake researchers included autistic children who were living at HOME (outpatients)! There are TEN TIMES as
many Autistic Children living at Home then in Hospitals.”

Which Danish study are you referring to, there are a number of them, they are all very large.

I actually took the time to read the Danish study that was published in the NEJM titled “A POPULATION-BASED STUDY OF MEASLES, MUMPS, AND RUBELLA
VACCINATION AND AUTISM”
Nowhere does it state that there has been a change in 1995 on what type of patients they were focused on. furthermore, some of the same patients that have not gotten the MMR vaccine have also not gotten other vaccines, yet the rate of autism was the same.

This is the conclusion;
“There was no association between
the age at the time of vaccination, the time since vaccination, or the date of vaccination and the development of autistic disorder.”

yet you and the radical website age of autism have figured out that this is just a fraud.

maybe you are referring to this study? (JAMA Pediatr. 2013 Oct;)

“CONCLUSIONS AND RELEVANCE:
Our population-based recurrence risk estimate is lower than the recently reported estimates from clinical samples. Our results demonstrate no time trend in the ASDs recurrence risk as seen in the ASDs prevalence. The difference in the recurrence risk between full- and half-siblings supports the role of genetics in ASDs, while the significant recurrence risk in maternal half-siblings may support the role of factors associated with pregnancy and the maternal intrauterine environment in ASDs.”

Also, you do know that age of autism is not a source, you make a claim like this, you DO need to prove it.

“AFTER 1992, The Danish Government CHANGED the Definition of Autism to a more inclusive one.
THAT is ANOTHER REASON, why the number of children diagnosed with Autism Went Up!!!”

Source?
Also, are you implying that the increase in autism is due to a changed definition? if so, does this also disprove your notion that vaccines are the cause for the increase in autism?

“3. All the Researchers were Employees or had Close Connection to Vaccine Industry which they did NOT
Disclose. This is FRAUD.”

Other than they reaching conclusions and findings that are inconsistent with your belief, is there any reason that you are making these accusations?

“4. One researcher, Poul Thorson, was indicted on 22 counts of Fraud and fled USA and is on the Most Wanted Criminals List. These are the “Holy Researchers” employed by the CDC!”

First off, its Thorsen not Thorson. Second, he has stolen money from the CDC, this is not a secret and has nothing to do with his research.
Third, he was not the lead researcher on any of the studies regarding vaccines.

I have posted multiple studies that clearly show that vaccine safety has been extensively researched and all studies have come to a similar conclusion, vaccines are safe.

I am sorry that you need to resort to twisting the truth and making up facts, the rest of the world prefers to rely on real studies and not gotcha statements that are far from the truth.

Sorry if you feel offended or as an outcast, that is what people like you are. ‘Alternative’ people, that have a dislike to evidence and research-based medicine.

While the arguments against billing seem serious, its bassed on an assumption of the facts.

A lot of hypothetical stuff. Do the areas that already bill including Catskill send bills to the patients?

More studies proving vaccine safety and debunking myths by radical anti-medicine websites.

Study of total population showing no change to Autism despite completely stopping to vaccinate. (PMID: 15877763)

“RESULTS:
The MMR vaccination rate in the city of Yokohama declined significantly in the birth cohorts of years 1988 through 1992, and not a single vaccination was administered in 1993 or thereafter. In contrast, cumulative incidence of ASD up to age seven increased significantly in the birth cohorts of years 1988 through 1996 and most notably rose dramatically beginning with the birth cohort of 1993.
CONCLUSIONS:
The significance of this finding is that MMR vaccination is most unlikely to be a main cause of ASD, that it cannot explain the rise over time in the incidence of ASD, and that withdrawal of MMR in countries where it is still being used cannot be expected to lead to a reduction in the incidence of ASD.”

Immunization Safety Review: Vaccines and Autism. institute of Medicine, The National Academies Press: 2004

“The committee rejected a causal relationship between the MMR vaccine and autism as well as a causal relationship between thimerosal-containing vaccines and autism.”

Review of autistic children shows no regression that is related to the MMR vaccine. PMID: 16729252

“There was no evidence that onset of autistic symptoms or of regression was related to measles-mumps-rubella vaccination. The implications of these findings for the existence of a ‘regressive phenotype’ of ASD are discussed.”

No difference in developmental disorders despite not being exposed to thimerosal. Fombonne E, et al., Pediatrics. 2006; 118(1): e139-50

“CONCLUSIONS:
The prevalence of pervasive developmental disorder in Montreal was high, increasing in recent birth cohorts as found in most countries. Factors accounting for the increase include a broadening of diagnostic concepts and criteria, increased awareness and, therefore, better identification of children with pervasive developmental disorders in communities and epidemiologic surveys, and improved access to services. The findings ruled out an association between pervasive developmental disorder and either high levels of ethylmercury exposure comparable with those experienced in the United States in the 1990s or 1- or 2-dose measles-mumps-rubella vaccinations”

No association between Thimerosal and autism. Hviid, et al., Journal of the American Medical Association. 2003; 290(13):1763-6

“CONCLUSION:
The results do not support a causal relationship between childhood vaccination with thimerosal-containing vaccines and development of autistic-spectrum disorders.”

Increase in autism when thimerosal was discontinued showing no correlation. PMID: 12949291

“CONCLUSIONS:
The discontinuation of thimerosal-containing vaccines in Denmark in 1992 was followed by an increase in the incidence of autism. Our ecological data do not support a correlation between thimerosal-containing vaccines and the incidence of autism.”

Thimerosal-containing vaccines do not cause autism. Stehr-Green P, et al., American Journal of Preventive Medicine. 2003;

“CONCLUSIONS:
The body of existing data, including the ecologic data presented herein, is not consistent with the hypothesis that increased exposure to Thimerosal-containing vaccines is responsible for the apparent increase in the rates of autism in young children being observed worldwide.”

Levels of mercury in children after receipt of thimerosal-containing vaccines. Pediatrics Feb 2008, Volume 121.

After 5 days there were no detectable mercury levels, the half-life of intramuscular ethyl mercury is substantially shorter than that of oral methyl mercury.

Lower rate of autism in children vaccinated with the MMR vaccine vs those that are unvaccinated. Budzyn D, et al., The Pediatric Infectious Disease Journal.

“RESULTS:
For children vaccinated before diagnosis, autism risk was lower in children vaccinated with MMR than in the nonvaccinated (OR: 0.17, 95% CI: 0.06-0.52) as well as to vaccinated with single measles vaccine (OR: 0.44, 95% CI: 0.22-0.91). The risk for vaccinated versus nonvaccinated (independent of vaccine type) was 0.28 (95% CI: 0.10-0.76). The risk connected with being vaccinated before onset of first symptoms was significantly lower only for MMR versus single vaccine (OR: 0.47, 95% CI: 0.22-0.99).
CONCLUSIONS:
The study provides evidence against the association of autism with either MMR or a single measles vaccine.”

More studies.

No correlation between MMR vaccine rates and autism. JAMA. 2001;285(9):1183-118

“Results Essentially no correlation was observed between the secular trend of early childhood MMR immunization rates in California and the secular trend in numbers of children with autism enrolled in California’s regional service center system. For the 1980-1994 birth cohorts, a marked, sustained increase in autism case numbers was noted, from 44 cases per 100 000 live births in the 1980 cohort to 208 cases per 100 000 live births in the 1994 cohort (a 373% relative increase), but changes in early childhood MMR immunization coverage over the same time period were much smaller and of shorter duration. Immunization coverage by the age of 24 months increased from 72% to 82%, a relative increase of only 14%, over the same time period.
Conclusions These data do not suggest an association between MMR immunization among young children and an increase in autism occurrence”

Another study disproves Wakefield’s findings. Davis RL, et al., Archives of Pediatric and Adolescent Medicine. 2001;155(3): 354-9

“Conclusions Vaccination with MMR or other MCV, or the timing of vaccination early in life, did not increase the risk for IBD.”

Study of 535,544 vaccinated children found no association between the MMR vaccine and Encephalitis, Meningitis or autism. Makela A, et al., Pediatrics. 2002; 110: 957-63 (PubMed 12415036)

“CONCLUSIONS:
We did not identify any association between MMR vaccination and encephalitis, aseptic meningitis, or autism.”

Study of 537,303 Children fails to find a correlation between the MMR vaccine and Autism. Madsen KM, et al., New England Journal of Medicine. 2002;

“CONCLUSIONS:
This study provides strong evidence against the hypothesis that MMR vaccination causes autism.”

Dooms.

These were muy words:

“there was no request by Congress.”

If this is a lie, then be so kind to show us all the request that was submitted by Congress.

German Study.

“Parental asthma and nasal allergy increase asthma incidence in offspring up to adulthood. Avoiding tobacco smoke exposure during pregnancy, receiving vaccinations in early childhood, and starting day care between 1.5 and 3 years of age might prevent or delay the development of asthma.”
-American Academy of Asthma

“The prevalence of allergic diseases and non-specific infections in children and adolescents was not found to depend on vaccination status.

Protective vaccinations are among the most important and effective preventive measures in modern medicine (1). They make a substantial contribution to reducing the probability of contracting many infectious diseases as well as their severity. The immediate goal of a vaccination is to protect the vaccinated person from a disease. Achieving high rates of vaccinated persons additionally results in the so called herd immunity.

-PMID 21412506

“We use data from the Cebu Longitudinal Health and Nutrition Survey (CLHNS) in the Philippines to link vaccination in the first 2 years of life with later physical and cognitive development in children. We use propensity score matching to estimate the causal effect of vaccination on child development. We find no effect of vaccination on later height or weight, but full childhood vaccination for measles, polio, Tuberculosis (TB), Diphtheria, Pertussis and Tetanus (DPT) significantly increases cognitive test scores relative to matched children who received no vaccinations. The size of the effect is large, raising test scores, on average, by about half an SD.”

By Dooms,

“2cents claimed there WERE 2 studies on vaxxed vs unvaxxed but those studies
were really vaxxed vs vaxxed. And when this was pointed out, 2cents claimed that we were discussing
MMR vaccine and not why the CDC refuses to do a vaxxed vs unvaxxed study!!! And now 2cents claims that
I was shown to be “incorrect” when 2cents was PROVEN a LIAR (again! )”

This seems to be getting pretty personal, yet since you have a hard time comprehending something as is evident by you just repeating the same thing over and over, I guess we will just have to go in circles until you finally get it.

Autism was the discussion at the time, I have provided you with a number of studies that have shown no link between MMR and autism.

The only vaccine that was blamed for autism was the MMR shot, I guess you have a reading problem as I clearly have written that these studies were about the MMR shot. Vaccinated vs unvaccinated.

As per Doom,

The link between the MMR vaccine and autism is encephalitis.

This is how it works, measles can cause encephalitis, so the vaccine can probably also cause it.
Encephalitis can cause autism (its not the case, but this is the claim).

Yet encephalitis is rare, especially in pediatrics.

What are we supposed to make out of this.

Does this actually mean that autism is a genetic disease? Can it actually be the case, so the studies which show that people with siblings that have been diagnosed with autism are more likely to be diagnosed with autism, regardless of vaccination status, are actually correct?

Dooms,

“Why won’t CDC do the Retrospective Study as had been requested by Congressmen???”

You mentioned this earlier, and shown to be incorrect. Sonwhy bring this up again?

ubiquitin,

They currently are making money, all these fundraiser events and donations.

I do not think that anyone is implying that they will not have profits which means monies that exceed their expenses.

Hatzolah has a grassroots response, which means they need to outfit each member with a complete set of gear and medications, most of these have expiration dates and require preventive maintenance and repairs. This is an expense that the average ambulance service does not have.

I am under the assumption that these monies will cover their operating budget yet they will still need to purchase ambulances. I do know that agencies that collect insurance money still need grants to purchase ambulances it is not like there is excess money, it just helps enormously cover their day to day expenses.

I do wonder if someone is able to shed light on the technical questions such as copays and billing to those without coverage, I am sure something has been worked out as other hatzolahs already are billing for years and Central hatzolah has already done so in the Catskills.

Dooms.

Your making it very easy, you are just going in circles this has been discussed earlier in this very thread, yet you seem to not get it.

“Because FAKE STUDIES are designed to prove whatever the Corporation/CDC PAYING for the study wants!
This is what the Editors of the Most PRESTIGIOUS MEDICAL JOURNALS say! See below:

Editor of The New England Journal of Medicine “It is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgment of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines. I take no pleasure in this conclusion, which I reached slowly and reluctantly over my two decades as editor of The New England Journal of Medicine”

Richard Horton, editor of The Lancet, wrote that “The case against science is straightforward: much of the scientific literature, perhaps half, may simply be untrue. Afflicted by studies with small sample sizes, tiny effects, invalid exploratory analyses, and flagrant conflicts of interest, together with an obsession for pursuing fashionable trends of dubious importance, science has taken a turn towards darkness”

Actually, if you read the article, R. Horton actually writes that the science has greatly improved we now need to implement the updated and clean up old practices.

The first paragraph (you do not even attribute it to the writer, seems like you didnt fully select all when you copy/pasted).

Below is what has been written about this earlier.

“a. Dr. Marcia Angell, to use this as an argument against vaccines is silly, she is a big believer in science, in the very same claim against published data she also makes the claim that alternative medicine has gained popularity yet, in reality, we should not acknowledge them, as only pure science should play a role, her concern was that we no longer use pure science in medicine to the extent that we should use.”

In the future, it would be appreciated if you actually read the articles in its entirety rather than just posting snippets that seem to further your agenda.

These people were all for science, they would discard anectodal stories in a heartbeat, they just wanted science to be even better.

Once again, interesting how Dooms is so engrossed in labeling me as a liar. Yet the lie was that I responded to dooms post that the studies that were presented were vaccinated vs unvaccinated, I still stand by that.

It is children that were vaccinated with the MMR vaccine, vs children that were not.

I guess this is a big deal for dooms, but the fact still remains that there has been no link between MMR vaccine and autism.

This was the discussion at the time regardless of how dooms wants to twist this.

In no way was I am implying that these studies were for other vaccines, autism was ONLY blamed (by Wakefield) on the MMR vaccine. this was a direct response to that.

Now to your other question, yes there have been numerous studies on diseases that have increased recently, RETROSPECTIVE studies that clearly show no link between vaccines and these diseases.

Dooms,

“Here is 2Cents Lying that there ARE vaxxed vs unvaxxed retrospective studies. But when I checked out the studies that 2Cents “pointed out” they are NOT vaxxed vs unvaxxed!!! And 2Cents writes that she KNEW they were not vaxxed vs unvaxxed when she posted that they WERE!”

A. In case anyone was complimenting Dooms on being only on the facts and not on the name calling, well here you have Dooms calling me a liar, Guess what, your an idiot.

you know you are an idiot? Because myself and others have addressed this very point you just made numerous times, yet you continue to bring it up as if you are adding some substance.
Yes, this IS a retrospective study, and yes, it is limited to the MMR vaccine, where have I lied??

I have mentioned this many times, this is about the MMR vaccine, which was the topic at the time that this was posted, however you are either very dumb or just a fraud so you hang your arguments on twisting the truth which is why most people that actually rely on true facts and true data are not with you in your cult-like anti-medicine belief.

B. I have asked you specifically, what exactly do you want should be studied that has not been studied?

C. Autism, that has been the claim against the MMR vaccine, that has been proven to be non-existent.

D. All other diseases that we are seeing these days, have been studied with no correlation between the diseases and the vaccines. In fact, the vaccinated group has shown to have less of these diseases.

E. SIDS, no correlation, in fact, there is a significant reduction with vaccinations. Just in case you will twist this one, not just SIDS has seen a significant reduction, postneonatal mortality, in general, has also seen a significant reduction, so whichever way you or your people at these radical fringe blogs want to twist this, there is a reduction. (lol to the comment about nurses standing by with crash carts for infants that are being vaccinated).

F. The history of anti-vaccine is not recent, this has been ongoing since the very start. From claiming that smallpox is not dangerous to the point of arguing that disease is caused by the mind and the ‘germ theory’ is not true. Of course, we have Wakefield with his fraudulent study that began blaming the MMR vaccine on autism.
His study was confirmed to be a manipulation of incorrect facts, he reported results that were false and did not even take the effort to defend his writings.

So once again, where did I lie in this thread (I can point to numerous times that you have either intentionally lied or simply just posted what others have lied about) and also, what study are you looking for?

Dooms,

“Based on WHAT STUDIES did Vaccine Industry CHANGE the Vaccine Inserts from Recently Vaccinated ARE a Risk of spreading Disease to Recently Vaccinated are “little risk” of Spreading Disease???”

Why are you giving out homework?

If you really want to know, do a quick search, its the age of information. One example below.

PubMed15106106

Dooms,

“But you are WRONG! These studies compare Vaxxed Children with Vaxxed Children – only difference is some got MMR and some did not! So it is NOT a Vaxxed vs Unvaxxed Study as You Provaxxers said it was.”

You are correct, this is only focused on the MMR vaccine, this is what I intended to show when I posted these studies.
Are you acknowledging the safety of the MMR shots by now moving away from the MMR and acknowledging these studies only to focus on other vaccines??

are there any specific vaccines that you make any claims to?

Lucy,

Not sure what your point is, this seems like a pretty clear advisory and warning from the pharmaceutical company, not a whitewash.

in fact, it seems that the inserts you are quoting is in line what was published in Pediatrics.

“Apnea occurring within 72 hours (peak, 12–24 hours) of administration of DTwP vaccine to ELBW infants <31 weeks’ gestation was described in up to 12% of recipients of whole-cell pertussis-containing vaccines in some studies”.

Once we’re at it, any viral or bacterial infection for these smaller infants are considered dangerous and deadly.

Dooms,

”
“I asked you if these studies were vaxxed vs unvaxxed and you said yes, they were.
NO, they are NOT. I don’t blame you. The researchers and government”

This is not fraud, not sure why you have to label them like this, its only focused on the MMR vaccine, why does this constitute fraud??

For now, can you lay to rest that there are studies comparing children with the MMR vaccine to children without the MMR vaccine which show that there is no difference to autism?

What other studies are you looking for?

There are studies comparing cognitive test scores that were done in the Philippines. Vaccinated children scored better.
Regarding asthma and allergies, vaccinated children had a lower rate of those.

If the primary reason as to why Mr Rowe is stepping down was due to this being against daas torah, this would be a very valid reason and Mr Rowe should have said so, not just mention in passing reference that Rav Epstien also holds of his opinion.

“2scents and Milhouse are clearly pushing an agenda, are you a pediatrician that get paid for vaccinating your patients?”

I cannot speak for others, but I prefer to base my position on facts and real science. When you or others oost nonsense and expect to get away with it, all I do is expose the truth. that in its own is an agenda.

Now of course, once you reach a point of not being able to validate the conspiracy you so strongly believe in, you just blame everyone of being involved.

If only your agenda would be to know the true facts you wouldn’t be so defensive, you would appreciate that lies and made up data is not something most people are ok with.

Daas,

All of this is assumptions, there are a number of other hatzolahs that collect from insurance and have been doing this for a very long time.

Has it impacted their care to the community in a negative way?
Do these areas base transports decisions on insurance compensation?

If the answer is no, then these assumptions are proven to be incorrect.

The answer is no. It so happens to be that the hatzolahs that have been collecting insurance are known to go the distance and transport decisions are based on the patients needs.

Mammele,

In that case, insurance will not compensate for the transport to the distant facility and will only pay the cost of s shorter transport.

Unless there is a justification such as a required intervention that only the further facility is able to do.

A. What fraud? They should have a quality assurance system like every ems system has, all documentation should be reviewed, if done properly there shouldnt an issue with fraud.

B. Insurance does not dictate what treatment should or should not be done, they may refuse payment, yet the ems responders do not treat according to what insurance pays.

Besides, government already controls ems treatment and protocols.

C. I hope they have a solution to the legal technicalities.

However this is already done for a very long time in a lot if different hatzolah systems, if it works for them, it should work for others.

Ubiquitin,

You make valid points and I am not familiar with the structure. However you call them private and for profit, are the hatzolohs that already collect private and for profit agencies?

Is it a bad thing that they no longer will be dependent on our donations to cover their operating budget?

Health,

I read most of that case, there is no mention of the cotwatch, furthermore, the court acknowledges that there is no evidence that the shot was connected to the SIDS, there were many other possible factors including the fact that the child was born prematurely and was recently taken to the hospital for respiratory complaints.

Also, the child was found face down, with a pillow and loose blanket.

Yet the court ruled that the parents do not have the burden of proving the link, and the pharmaceutical company has not proven that there was a different cause to the SIDS.