Below are exerts from studies with information where this was published, unlike dumb doom (sorry for the name calling, but now that you have repeatedly resorted to the name-calling, it is about time I give you a label)

Vaccines not associated with Autism. (PubMed 23545349)

“This case-control study of more than 1,000 children compared the total exposure of antibody-stimulating proteins and polysaccharides in children with autism spectrum disorder (ASD), autistic disorder (AD), or ASD with regression to the total exposure in children who were not diagnosed with any form of autism. The children included in the study were aged 6- 13 years, but authors studied their exposures from vaccines during the first 2 years of life. Results showed that the odds of developing any of the three forms of autism studied did not rise with increased exposure to antibody-stimulating proteins and polysaccharides.”

Timely vaccination during infancy has no adverse effect on neuropsychological outcomes 7 to 10 years later. Pediatrics June 2010

“RESULTS: Timely vaccination was associated with better performance on 12 outcomes in univariate testing and remained associated with better performance for 2 outcomes in multivariable analyses. No statistically significant differences favored delayed receipt. In secondary analyses, children with the greatest vaccine exposure during the first 7 months of life performed better than children with the least vaccine exposure on 15 outcomes in univariate testing; these differences did not persist in multivariable analyses. No statistically significant differences favored the less vaccinated children.
CONCLUSIONS: Timely vaccination during infancy has no adverse effect on neuropsychological outcomes 7 to 10 years later. These data may reassure parents who are concerned that children receive too many vaccines too soon.”

Lancet, Volume 351, Issue 9112

“No evidence for measles, mumps, and rubella vaccine-associated inflammatory bowel disease or autism in a 14-year prospective study”

Lancet. 1999 Jun 12;353(9169):2026-9.

“Our analyses do not support a causal association between MMR vaccine and autism. If such an association occurs, it is so rare that it could not be identified in this large regional sample.”

Kaye JA, et al., British Medical Journal. 2001; 322:460-63

“The data provide evidence that no correlation exists between the prevalence of MMR vaccination and the rapid increase in the risk of autism over time.”

Dooms.

“There were other explanations why Vaccinated kids scored higher in school (NOT the vaccines)!
The Vaccinated children had:
1) had mothers with more education,
2) had higher socioeconomic status,
3) lived in larger homes,
4) had more toilet/sanitation access,
5) had fewer siblings,
6) had better-nourished mothers,
7) had more breastfeeding as infants

…than the UNVACCINATED!”

Exactly, it so happens to be that the uneducated do not vaccinate.

Dooms,

Below is from The Encephalitis Society:

Measles, mumps and rubella (MMR) vaccine is a very effective way to prevent against these diseases. All three of these infections are important causes of encephalitis, and before MMR vaccine was introduced all three infections were common in the UK.

The vaccine is unequivocally safer than letting children catch the diseases. In a study carried out in Finland between 1982 and 1986 of over half of million children, it was found that the incidence of encephalitis in the three months following a MMR vaccination was no different to the overall incidence. The example below compares the risk of measles with the risk of MMR vaccine.

Measles

1-3 in 1,000 children contracting measles will develop encephalitis concurrent with the measles infection. 10–15% of those children will die and a further 25% will be left with permanent neurological damage.
1 in 1,000 children with measles will develop post-infectious encephalitis.
1 in 25,000 of children (1 in 5,500 children if they are under 1) with measles will develop subacute sclerosing panencephalitis (SSPE) which has a fatal (death) outcome.
1-2 in 1.000.000 children who had vaccination will develop encephalitis from the vaccination which is less than the incidence of all types of encephalitis.

Dooms

“Doomsday: “Why won’t CDC do the Retrospective Study as had been requested by Congressmen???”

2cents: You mentioned this earlier, and shown to be incorrect. Sonwhy bring this up again?

Folks, See how 2cents keeps on lying?
Throughout this thread I and other Anti-Vaxxers kept asking why CDC won’t do a Retrospective Vaxxed vs Unvaxxed Study. 2cents claimed there WERE 2 studies on vaxxed vs unvaxxed but those studies”

First off, why are you pondering to the ‘folks’ instead of focusing on what you are writing?

You asked why the CDC doesnt comply with Confresses eequest, this has been discussed that there was no request by Congress.

Is that a lie? Has this not been discussed?

Your a phony, actually your not a phony just an alternative person with an alternative agenda and alternative comprehension.

Dooms,

A. Which children vaccines contain Thermisol?

B. MMR vaccine is the one that was blamed for autism, hence the reason for the studies disproving the made up claim.

C. Children that did not receive the MMR vaccine are not in line with the CDCs schedule, yet there has been no chnage in autism rates.

D. If Measles causes encephalitis, why is the wild measles better than the vaccine?

E. Below is from The Encephalitis Society:

Measles, mumps and rubella (MMR) vaccine is a very effective way to prevent against these diseases. All three of these infections are important causes of encephalitis, and before MMR vaccine was introduced all three infections were common in the UK.

The vaccine is unequivocally safer than letting children catch the diseases. In a study carried out in Finland between 1982 and 1986 of over half of million children, it was found that the incidence of encephalitis in the three months following a MMR vaccination was no different to the overall incidence. The example below compares the risk of measles with the risk of MMR vaccine.

Measles

1-3 in 1,000 children contracting measles will develop encephalitis concurrent with the measles infection. 10–15% of those children will die and a further 25% will be left with permanent neurological damage.
1 in 1,000 children with measles will develop post-infectious encephalitis.
1 in 25,000 of children (1 in 5,500 children if they are under 1) with measles will develop subacute sclerosing panencephalitis (SSPE) which has a fatal (death) outcome.
1-2 in 1.000.000 children who had vaccination will develop encephalitis from the vaccination which is less than the incidence of all types of encephalitis.

Ubiquitin,

No one wants any change in Hatzolahs care, it seems we are all in agreement to this.

Now if the concerns you listed are the same ones the opposing side has, it seems that this can be worked out so that all of these concerns are handled.
Once those concerns are handled it would seem that you would also be in favor of billing.

Or is it your opinion that the concerns raised cannot be handled and the people in charge are not capable of handling them?

Studies are one thing, reality is another…
– We practice evidence based medicine, you would need studies to know the reality.

Parents are coming in to our own Doctors immediately after vaccines, with issues that never occurred before.
– You know that how?

They’re being told that those issues are normal occurrences and have no relation to vaccines, based on these studies that you so stubbornly cling to…
– You know that how?

(If I can address my doctor here:)

Reality check: Do the experiences of your own patients match the picture painted by all these studies?
– Yes they do.

Reality check: If parents keep telling you that this child was perfectly normal a few days ago, and now he’s not the same…
– They do not say that.

Reality check: If babies keep dying of SIDS within days of getting their shots…
– babies are not dying, there has been a significant reduction in SIDS (and all postneonatal mortalities), Also this is a lie, you do not have access to the SIDS cases and their records, the ones that do have not found a correlation.

Does that match what the studies are suggesting?
– Yes.

If something keeps occurring again and again, shouldn’t that set off an alarm?
– If being the keyword.

Take a look at “Hear this well parents speak out” for a small sampling of testimony.

Why are studies more conclusive than the patients that are walking through your very own doors?
– It is not.

With all respects to your Royal Highness PhD: You claim to be pro-science, but seem to be a total block head when it comes to reality unfolding right in front of your nose…
– Says the one who makes up reality.

As long as you keep giving multiple vaccines in a single visit (so you never know which vaccine caused an issue), and keep claiming that vaccine injuries are completely unheard of (so you can keep ignoring any connections)…
– Connections to what?

How can you ever claim to have the truth?
– why not? You obviously have an agenda here, you despise medicine, evidence-based medicine that’s your thing, why are you accusing others of lying there has to be at least a number of doctors that are sincere?

You’re just a parakeet for what you learned in med school, not a real scientist.
– Ok, They do teach the science of medicine which you do not believe in, you are parakeet of ‘alternative’ people vs doctors that have spent years earning a degree in medicine, evidence based medicine.

Dooms,

I would like to copy and paste my original post here, lets who is lying and who is twisting the truth.

“Dooms,

“2Scents – explain to my WHY CDC refuses to do a Vaxxed vs UnVaxxed Study?”

There are many explanations why it is not ethical not to vaccinate a group of people just for the purpose of a study, however the data is pretty clear, See below. (of course you only accept made up and twisted data that supports your theory, not true data).

JAMA 2275444

Conclusions and Relevance: In this large sample of privately insured children with older siblings, receipt of the MMR vaccine was not associated with increased risk of ASD, regardless of whether older siblings had ASD. These findings indicate no harmful association between MMR vaccine receipt and ASD even among children already at higher risk for ASD.”:

This was my first post about the JAMA study, Does it seem like I am attempting to imply that the study was not focused on the MMR?, actually I clearly write that this is about the MMR!

You then asked if this was vaxxed vs unvaxxed, the answer was in the affirmative, this was the case, oh.. if it is not ALL vaccines then its a lie, not sure what you are trying to gain by becoming too complicated and deviating from the actual facts. Oh, you are an ‘alternative person’..
You to call someone a liar and then use this as part of an argument, just exposes you for who you are. As I noted multiple times you are a fraud and twist bits and pieces to get your point across.

You are no better than the original anti-vaxxers in the 1800s that believed in all crazy stuff, those that were against the germ theory and believed that disease originates in the mind, those that believed that the vaccines are just a way to murder the masses. Those were all ignoramuses and would probably be institutionalized today based on their ridiculous beliefs, you are no better.

Dooms,

“Folks, was the debate on Why CDC refuses to do Vaxxed vs Unvaxxed ? Or a debate on MMR Vaccine as 2Cents lies? (and calls me an “Idiot” for saying the debate was on Vaxxed vs Unvaxxed study)”

I am actually enjoying this, now the focus is if what I posted was a lie or not, great! now facts are not important and you consider this a win to a debate.

However, as I have pointed out many times, this is not a debate I am looking to win rather the facts and truth is what form my opinion, the study was to compare MMR vaccinated vs unvaccinated. The discussion was about autism which was only blamed (by wakefield) on the MMR vaccine.

Unlike you, I have not told you to go an google anything, I have posted actual studies with the intention that you and others will actually review them, these are not lies or twisting the truth. this is the actual truth.

If you had the impression that I intended to imply that the studies I listed concluded something else than I implied, I had made this clear earlier that this was not the case, so what is your point here?

Also, you have not responded, do you now acknowledge that the studies showing that the MMR vaccine is not linked to autism (which was the only vaccine that was blamed to cause autism) prove that there is no link?

What OTHER studies are you looking for?

You just keep on accusing me of lying, this is not about me, this is about the facts, seems like you have a problem with the facts, so you just hang on to accusations. fine with me.

Lucy,

“Good to see someone who’s done their research, well done to you and for sharing it here. Most people just assume the science on vaccines has already been performed, it is only those who look deeper who discover that it hasn’t”

Nothing personal against Doomsday, however almost everything that Dooms posted was proven to be incorrect, most of the posts are directly copied from age of autism site, not sure why you are patting dooms on the back about this.

Lucy,

“I’m illustrating the fact that when you get away from the whitewashing sites and articles, you do see the industry themselves admitting that vaccines can cause crib death/SIDS.”

Or, you see how the healthcare industry actually advises of these risks which means that this should be taken into consideration, not an admission not a whitewashing.

This is actually THE websites that advise about the safety of vaccines, they do advise about this very concern.

Lucy,

“If one looks at the package insert for live vaccines such as MMR, there are warnings given that you can shed the virus onto others.”

From Merck.

“There are no reports of transmission of live attenuated measles or mumps viruses from vaccinees to
susceptible contacts.”

From CDC website:

“Some vaccinees intermittently shed small amounts of virus from the pharynx 7-28 days after vaccination. However, studies of greater than 1,200 susceptible household contacts and experience gained over 20 years of vaccine use failed to identify transmission of vaccine virus. These findings indicate that vaccinating susceptible children whose mothers or other household contacts are pregnant does not present a risk. Rather, vaccination of such children provides protection for these pregnant women. ”

No whitewashing here.

DaasYochid,

This is from the Study.

“Abstract
We use data from the Cebu Longitudinal Health and Nutrition Survey (CLHNS) in the Philippines to link vaccination in the first 2 years of life with later physical and cognitive development in children. We use propensity score matching to estimate the causal effect of vaccination on child development. We find no effect of vaccination on later height or weight, but full childhood vaccination for measles, polio, Tuberculosis (TB), Diphtheria, Pertussis and Tetanus (DPT) significantly increases cognitive test scores relative to matched children who received no vaccinations. The size of the effect is large, raising test scores, on average, by about half an SD.”

Of course, this is just a correlation, does this mean that vaccines actually make people smarter? Probably not.
This would not be a reason for one to vaccinate, nor is this part of the argument.

There might be other factors on why children whose parents decided to vaccinate them scored better. However, if the results would have been the other way around, I am sure that the anti-vaxxers would have been all over this.

Dooms,

“The point is, Recently Vaccinated children CAN be contagious”

Where are you taking this from? You just concluded that you erred and this is not the case.

DaasYochid,

“What it comes down to is that on several levels, accepting insurance is likely to have a negative affect on Hatzola’s effectiveness, as well as increase the likelihood of a chillul Hashem occurring.”

Why do you say so?

This has been done by many different Hatzolahs yet there has been no change on the side of patient care, this is only on the financial end.

Furthermore, at times Hatzolah would ‘privatize’ transports, this usually occurs when they cannot get members to respond to a call, now there will be an incentive for those that manage the organization to have sufficient coverage and cover all calls, otherwise it means a loss of revenue and more difficult to cover their operating budget.

again, the members will still be volunteers, the structure and character would not change. Only instead of completely relying on funds from the community, they will get much more by collecting insurance money that is already there, it only needs to be collected.

I am not dismissing the argument on the opposing side, I have no clue about the specifics and it may very much be that there are valid reasons against billing insurance for transports that they already do, I just have just not yet heard a valid argument.

Sariray,

Without even addressing your other points, incorrect statements mean lies, she lied and has an agenda.

Now before repeating additional statements, it would make sense to actually verify them.

Anonymous,

There are billing companies that handle this, they would reach out to the hospital to obtain insurance information.

Regarding Polio in India, grossly incorrect.

Vaccinations were below 60% until the government got involved, India is currently Polio free a direct result from vaccinations.

Not only are the facts incorrect, they actually prove the opposite.

Joseph,

Here are some of the answers

A. Polio never existed.
B. It never killed anyone, never paralyzed anyone.
C. Its still here, just under another name.
D. It decided to disappear on its own.
E. All the above.

There are a number of technicalities such as copays and documentation, I hope they have this all figured out.

I do not believe that the infrastructure or the patient care side, which is what we, the public is exposed to will change one bit. Other than having more finances for better equipment and more stuff that will enhance patient care.

They will still remain a volunteer agency regardless if they collect insurance or not.

From what I understand Catskill Hatzolah has already collected from insurance and several other areas are doing this for many years, has that had any negative impact on their patient care, are those areas now considered ‘private’ or they are still volunteer based?

The members are not getting paid, instead insurance is being collected to cover operating expenses and purchase of new ambulances and equipment.

The Hatzolah model seems to have a greater cost compared to the traditional ems model, they need to outfit individual units vs just outfiting an ambulance.

Regardless, I am not very familiar with the opposing positions and I am sure that there compelling arguments against collecting insurance money.

Dooms,

Other than a few Facebook posts and some silly radical anti-medicine sites, I have not seen any information about the CotWatch you so strongly hold by.

As requested earlier, it would be appreciated if you can point me in the direction of more information. So I do not have to take your word for it. (it has to be more than her word, or some blog or Facebook post),

Even modern apnea monitors are worthless, they beep nonstop and are grossly inaccurate, let alone the monitor that she alone designed a very long time ago.

Dooms,

“I have a saved copy of the 2014 John Hopkins Patient Guide which DID state that the immunocompromised should avoid recently compromised. You can still see the 2014 Patient Guide online. Also the Vaccine Inserts
used to say that recently vaccinated can shed the virus for 6 weeks and should avoid the immunocompromised.”

Your point?

The data shows otherwise, the advisories and patient guides have been updated to reflect what the data shows.

You, on the other hand, refuse to acknowledge that data and facts are what matter, so you will keep copies of old outdated manuals and live by them.

Dooms.

“Talking to yourself? Aren’t you the one who repeated the Lie: “There are NO studies linking Vaccines with Autism except for the fraudulent study by Wakefield.””

Why is it a lie? I am still waiting for you to point me to one such study so I can review it.

Besides, the point was that YOU are just repeating stuff that have been refuted and earlier, yet you just repeat it again and again.

Dooms,

I admire your persistence, despite being proven incorrect you still keep on repeating the same statements as if they are facts.

Dooms,

“Well the Provaxxers went crazy attacking Dr. Scheibner because she was not a Medical Doctor or a Medical Researcher but a GEOLOGIST! As if that matters! The ProVaxxers could not refute what Dr. Scheibner
PROVED so they resorted to attacking Dr. Scheibner.”

I wrote a response to this, not sure why it did not go through.

Basically, her work was proven to be incorrect, the data she used was incorrect I will not go so far as to say she intentionally did so, yet I would not be surprised if she was bent on reaching her predetermined conclusion and falsified the data.

In short, in 1993 she wrote that in her book that vaccines are the main reason behind SIDS, however from 1992 until 2006, vaccine rates in Austraila went from 53% to 92%.
In the same time, SIDS had a 81% decrease.

There are numerous studies that actually prove that vaccines are associated with reduced SIDS, (PubMed 17400342).

You mention that her Cotwatch breathing was used to win compensation, where is your source to this claim?