Avi K

LU,

2. It is impossible to run an army where everyone insists on a different hashgacha. The Army rabbinate will decide and disobeying will be considered mutiny.

3. There is no such thing as daat Torah regarding strategy and tactics. Rabbis will only pasken on military ethics – and they will have to have military experience or consult people who do.

5. Only if they have passed a very difficult exam given by the Army rabbinate. Even then they will be required to learn in army battei midrash, give shiurim to sodliers and publish peer-reviewed articles.

4. What about when they are in battle or on patrols?

7. Nonsense. Who decides who is more or less religious. Better a “less religious” officer who is better militarily.

8. What about when they are in battle or on patrols?

Ubitquin,

2. If there would be a coercive monopoly on water you would be correct(. However, in a free market for water competition would do the job. The latter is far preferable as the former causes shortages and black markets.

3.
a. I have stated before that hasagat gevul is related to property rights. Free enterprise also recognizes that one may not steal or commit fraud. However, the halachic definition of property is sometimes different than the American definition.
b. The article also brings Rav Soloveichik, the Beit Efraim (C.M. 26) and the Tel Aviv Beit Din (Piskei Din Rabbaniyim 4:9-32) as disagreeing. Kim li like them. Moreover, the article ends with the Aruch HaShulchan’s statement (C.M. 15:6) that present all cases must be presented to dayanim who are Torah scholars and who understand the intricacies of business. The Gra, in fact, states that a dayan must have wide secular knowledge in order to pasken correctly. Rav Kook also said that a bet din that decides labor disputes must have dayanim who are knowledgeable in Economics.

Ubiquitin
1. My father z”l bought the calculator in NYC. My point is that free enterprise is the most efficient way to keep prices down. The lot of the poor has increased tremendously under it. In fact, the poor today live much better than medieval kings. Price controls, on the other hand, cause shortages and black markets. Yes, the Halacha recognizes reality. The Gemara has many examples where takkanot were not instituted or repealed because of negative consequences.
2. Pills cost much more in the US because of crony capitalism. This is not free enterprise. If the price police the SA mentions would be engage in anti-coercive monopoly activities which promote competition they would serve the purpose of the halacha (see the Wikipedia article on antitrust laws in the US in the section on Theory).

Ubitquin,

You truncated the halacha in the SA. It says “necessary for life” (שאין לו לאדם להרויח בדברים שיש בהם חיי נפש). Today as is well known that nothing is in that category as everything has substitutes. I personally have a friend whose wife never eats bread or matza except at the seder. I also do not eat bread on weekdays except for seudot mitzva (e.g. a siyum). I also know a bit about Jewish and general history and economics. Free enterprise results in lower prices. When I was in college forty-five years ago my father z”l bought me a simple four-function calculator for $85. Today, that same calculator costs $8.99 (I just checked) – despite the CPI is about 5.8 times higher. On the other hand, price controls always cause shortages and black markets – even where the latter was punishable by death. In Israel there was rational just after the State was established – and almost everyone was involved in the black market. Finally it had to be repealed.

The issur of ribbit is also mostly as inapplicable today as carrying on Shabbat. Every financial institution in Israel has a heter iska (and really it is not certain that a corporation needs one) just as every community (except for one moshav that has a large Karaite population) has an eruv. The issur of ribbit is in YOreh Deah and not Choshen Mishpat for a reason.

Ubiquitin,

That was said regarding small, closed communities living under hostile regimes that had no concept of the rule of law and extremely restrictive tariffs . In such a society there was no choice. Today we live in a global village with free trade agreements (BTW,Sefer Chassidim says about restrictions of trade “the land was filled with hamas”) and substitutes for everything. I, in fact, know people (including myself), who do not eat bread at all (almost) on weekdays.

I would like to suggest that hey way to carry out this halacha in our time is to deregulate the economy and allow the Invisible Hand (of Hashem) to do its work.

Kitov, that is a form of “lifnei iver”. Who says that what is right for Reuven is right for Shimon?

Golfer, actually it goes back to the deposing of Rabban Gamliel (Berachot 28a). The Gra says (Even Sheleima 2) that the Torah is compared to water because it makes everything grow – flowers and weeds. However, the Torah scholarship is not an inheritance (Nedarim 81a). By “elite” I meant someone who is superior in his own right.

Mod, don’t you mean a toen rabbani?

Yes. That’s what I meant

Ubitquitin,

1. I was suggesting lowering her sights and sending her to a less academically demanding school. Are there no such schools? My analogy should have been obvious.
2. The very strong implication was that the suicide was because of this.
3. She wrote that she changed some of the facts.
4. Obviously the writer thinks that an acceptance was coming to her.

Golfer,Talmidei chachamim have always looked down on amei aratzot. See Pesachim 43b. This exists in all societies and in both directions. In college towns there are tensions between the college people and the “townies”. Rabin hated Peres because the latter never served in the military (this is very common and there are also rivalries between different services and intelligence agencies). Even in socialist movements there were tensions between intellectuals and workers. I myself was rejected for a summer job driving a taxi because the boss did not like “college boys”.
The fact of the matter is that elite schools, both in secular and Torah studies, are necessary to develop those who are gifted. This is why NYC has specialized schools and why the business community donates to them. A person who is not accepted should be sameach b’chelko and move on.

What does “unfavorable scholastic achievements” mean? Did she get poor grades? If so, I don’t see why other parents should care. However, her parents should have explained to her that she would not succeed in a school that demands scholastic excellence and looked for a less demanding school. What do you want? That she should be given good grades just to make her feel better? I went to public schools in NYC. I was accepted into a “specialized” HS but only received middling grades there. I accepted the fact that while I was not exactly the tail of a lion I was far from the head. For this I thank my father z”l who told me at a very young age that no matter how good you are there is somebody better. Some of my friends were not accepted so they went to a regular HS. That’s the way the ball bounces. Some of them are now doing much better financially than me so it seems that Hashem really does decide how much parnassa each person gets.

On the other hand “unfavorable scholastic achievements” could be a euphemism for disruptiveness (“some of the details were altered”). If she indeed committed suicide over this apparently she was not very stable. This would explain the opposition of the other parents. IMHO if so they were right. They do not have to endanger their children because one girl’s parents miseducate her and will not seek proper help to undo the damage.

AY, many gedolim supported it.

Joseph,
a. I see that you are a baal hotzaat shem ra. In other words, you have an ownership interest in HSR.
b. The Maharal does not say that. On the contrary, he says that the oath not to make aliya en masse is connected to their oath not to persecute us “too much”. It is pure nonsense to say that they are yehareg v’al yaavor. Only the three cardinal sins are in that category (or any other mitzva that they are trying to force us to violate in order to destroy Judaism) – and that is to what he is referring.
c. I have already refuted the claims about the three oaths in this venue several times. For your benefit I will repost.
1. The pesukim cited refer to the kelei hamikdash, not the people.
2. They are aggadata. Aggadata cannot be understood literally (Rambam, Intro. to Perek Chelek). See also Responsa Chatam Sofer OC 51 at the end – and also note that the Maharshal has separate perushim on Halacha and Aggadata).
3. They are not brought down in any of the codes.
4. According to Rav Chaim Vital they were only for 1,000 years (Intro. to Sefer Etz Chaim 8).
5. According to Rav Meir Simcha the San Remo conference repealed them as the other nations agreed.
6. According to Rav Soloveichik (Kol Dodi Dofek) Hashem has called.
7. The other nations violated their oath not to persecute us too much on several occasions (Crusades, Chmielnitzky massacres, pogroms, Petlura massacres, Holocaust). Thus, the deal is off (Sotah 10a with Rashi d”h huchal shevuato shel Avimelech and Shulchan Aruch YD 236,6).

If there are no specifics how can anyone render an opinion?

CTl,
1. That means that they will be making much more than there peers who remained in public service.
2. How is having to justify an indictment to supervisors better than having to justify it to a grand jury?

Iacisrmma, you are correct but the pension (assuming one worked five years, which is the minimum for vesting) is based on years of service and final salary . That means that the pensions they will receive thirty years down the line will be very small and even smaller if inflation reawakens.

Yehudayona,
1. I second you. I personally was never on a jury although I almost was (after I was selected the judge decided the split the trials of the two defendants and dismissed us) but my father a”h was on both a state jury and a Federal grand jury. From what he told me it was very fair. In fact, the state jury was going to acquit except that the defendant said to the complainant at the stationhouse “I didn’t rob your store” without being told that he was specifically accused of that.
2. So? Kim lei b’d’rabba minei. Learn the third perek of Makkot and you will see that in Halacha we also pile on every possible aveira (the record is six for eating a wasp – Makkot 16b).

Yytz, no system administered by human beings can be perfect. I consider it unfair that prosecutors have to turn over exculpatory info but defense attorneys may not reveal the reverse. What are “overly punitive laws and unfair policing practices” is also in the eye of the beholder. At least at one time Manhattan prosecutors considered themselves lucky to get convictions because juries identified with the defendants. In fact, the reason why the British did not introduce it in EY was that they thought that Jewish jurors would automatically acquit Jews and Arab jurors would automatically acquit Arabs. They had three-judge panels with one Jew, one Arab and one Britisher. The majority decided. As for highest percentage of citizens incarcerated, the US is No. 41 in overall crime rate and No. 14 in violent crime rate.

Iacisrmma, benefits are not what they used to be and only are good if one stays for life. Apparently they do not make up for the salary differential for most people as in NYC they have to demand a three-year commitment in order to justify the expense of training people.

CTl,

1. Where can your associates expect to be in five years and where can a prosecutor who stays expect to be?

2. How is the prosecutor’s ability to indict without even a grand jury better for the defendant?

3. Obviously in a large city there will be much more work. That is part of being in a city. Everything is a trade-off. See Ketubot 110b.

4. A. Paul Spinella, who is a defense attorney, of the Hartford Courant does not share your view of the system (Reanimate Grand Jury, State Prosecutor System).

Pigs are hypocrites. They have cloven hooves but do not chew the cud. They are kosher outside but not inside. In any case, there is only a prohibition against owning non-kosher animals whose meat is eaten. It is part of the gezeira against making business out of non-kosher meat(as opposed to selling meat that was later found to be tereif).

Yytz,

1. Rav Moshe did not share your rav’s concern (IM CM 2:68). BTW, a ben Noach can be executed (according to the Chelkat Yoav and Rav Aharon Soloveichik that is only a maximum penalty) for violating any of the sheva mitzvot. If a person goes down to the level of murder he has certainly already violated several of them.

2. The Torah system is only for a time when Am Yisrael are all tzaddikim and crime is very rare (Maharal, Chiddushei Aggadot Makkot 7a). In “normal” times it would result in hefkerut (Ran, Derasha 11).

3. Who says that there are no attorneys. The witnesses are also accusers and according to Prof. Nahum Sarna there was a public prosecutor in Tanachic times whose title was Satan (which can mean “accuser” or “enemy”). Chazal speak of kategors and senigors in Heaven so apparently it was in use in their time. They also say that anyone, including the judges, can speak for against the defendant (Sanhedrin 32a).

4. One can also say the opposite. Being that the prosecutor does not want a loss he will decline to prosecute, as is his right, where he does not think that there is a strong chance of obtaining a conviction.

5. The defense attorney’s job is also to see that justice is done and not rack up acquittals. However, he is just a macho as the prosecutor. In amany case he is even a former prosecutor who decided to make more money.

Yitz,
1. How do you define “overzealous”?
2. Unfortunately I had experiences with this type in my youth.
3. You still have not answered my question about white-collar cases.
4. While it is true that YCT lists him on their “rabbinic advisory board” at the beginning of the article he only lists positions at Stern College (which machshirs him in my book) – and BTW, the YU website has his shiurim and Columbia and NYU law schools. While Rabbi Weiss has moved significantly to the left it could be that Rabbi Berman did not. In any case, he was quoting Rav Soloveichik.

3. Actually it was Hillel and he did not “come up” with anything. That is a Conservative contention. He only activated a possibility that always existed.

4. Once again, capitalism is the system of private ownership of the means of production. Regarding the definition of a free market, see the Wikipedia article, which gives two opinions. An example of socialism would be a government pizza authority – which would probably make lousy pizzas (when they are available) except, of course, for party members. As George Orwell wrote in Animal Farm everyone is equal but some are more equal (In Hebrew it is even better:
כולם שווים אבל יש ששווים יותר),

5. Onaat mammon is fraud. However, if the seller says that the market price (if there is a market price) is such and such but he charges more (or vice versa) there is no onaah.

3. Not at all. The halacha differentiates between charity and business loans.

4. You keep trying to put the chainek back up. if the new guy lives in the city or at least pays taxes and does not block the way to the existing store, and certainly if he sells specialty pizzas, it is muttar. While there are some restrictions are simply protections of proprietary rights. See Hasagat Gevul: Economic Competition in Jewish Law by Rabbi Chaim Jachter (on-line).

Joseph,

1. Once again you demonstrate lack of Torah knowledge. The secular authorities have the right and obligation to punish people according to their own standards of proof (see CM 2). Rav Moshe even wrote in a letter to then NY Gov. Hugh Carey in support of the death penalty (IM CM 2:68). The reason, as I understand it, is that the bet din’s job is to enable the sinner to atone whereas the secular court’s job is to maintain public order.

2. Even in Halacha there is the concept of a “kol shelo posek” or “kol ha’am meranninim”.

Joseph,

1. People who sit in kollel when they should be working are hurting Am Yisrael by spreading the limited cake of kollel stipends among too many people. Thus, many who do have a future in Torah are discouraged and go to work and those who do not fail to do what they were put in this world to do – in which case they will have to come back and try again,

2. The Chazon Ish says that bitachon is not standing in the middle of a highway and trusting that you wiln not be hit by a car. it is doing hishtadlyut and trusting that whether it panned out or not is good.

With more opportunities for parnassa I would be able to get out of overdraft iy”H.

Ubiquitin,

3. It only forbids it to/from another Jew in the context of tzedaka (see the SA that this is considered the second highest level). The heter iska was developed because it was never intended to allow someone to do business by freeloading on someone else.

4. In Halacha a person has a proprietary interest in his livelihood.

Yitz, I agree. Averecihim should be held to the same standards as (l’havdil) graduate fellows. Teach and help the rabbanim with research. Later on, publish or perish (and I mean in peer-reviewed publications, not pop books that just cull halachot (preferably the most machmir so that no one attacks them as apikorsim).

Ubiquitin,

1. There is a limit to how much one can squeeze from the taxpayers, as Rehavam ben Shlomo discovered. I would first cut costs by putting severe limits on the malpractice suits and awards. According Halacha if someone is certified (מומחה לרבים) he is only liable for gross violation of professional standards.

2. Group insurance is not limited to working people. It can be sold to members of a fraternal organization, for example (and originally, as De Tocqueville notes in Democracy in America this was the norm before the New Deal.

3. As “pure capitalism” simply means that there is only private ownership (except for certain public goods like police) limitations do not make a society non-capitalist.

4. Marx actually wanted a dictatorship of the proletariat and eventual withering away of the state. Capitalism implies a free society. In Marx’s society no one would be allowed to compete with the socialized businesses.