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There is a story about a Jew who was standing on his roof waiting for Hashem to save him from a flood. He declined the offers of a helicopter pilot and boatsman saying that he had perfect faith that Hashem would save him and therefore he did not need them and, in fact, they were threatening his emuna. After he drowned he asked Hashem why He didn’t save him. Hashem said: “Idiot! Who do you think sent the helicopter and the boat?”
CG,
1. Get a copy of “Torat Eretz Yisrael” by Rav David Samson and read it.
2. With your blame-the-Jews attitude you would fit in very well with the “genteel” anti-Semites in Britainstan. I suppose you also think that the Jews provoked the Nazis.
CG, Rav Kook said that the Erev Rav is anybody who is halachically Jewish but supports the Goyim against the Jews. This certainly fits NK who joined the PLO (its then leader was “Minister for Jewish Affairs”) and supports Iran. I also heard from Rav Yehuda ben Yishai that there is “erev raviut” – lack of belief in the Geula. As NK continues its denial (I leave whhy to the psychologists) that we are in the beginning of the Geula (atchalta d’Geula) that also fits. As they believe that the Satan is responsible for Medinat Yisrael that also makes them Satanists (or Notzrim, who believe that the Satan is Gd’s nemesis).
Crazybrit, you stated that the customs agent’s intent was to steal the stroller. I think hte whole thing is a dispute over whether the stroller is new or used. I have not seen the stroller in question so I cannot say. If Mike did not come with his baby as some posters suggested this may have aroused their suspicions that his intent was to sell it. It would certainly would have aroused mine. Unfortunately, this is very common and there are some people (yes, “frum” people) who make extra money by bringing in all sorts of things which they then sell (including things which they hold are assur such as TVs and videos).
BTW, I heard that both Rav Shimon Schwab and his brother asked about shaking hands with a woman. One was told “muttar” and the other was told “yehareg uval yaavor”. However, as I have posted before, a pesak lemaaseh takes into account all of the factors involved. This is the source of the machloket regarding listening to women singers at IDF ceremonies.
CG, Europestan? Are you for really for real? Zionism is about bringing us home, building a state where we can develop as a people and being a light unto the nations. This takes time. It’s been a long galut.
Sorry, I meant Sam.
Sanm it is indeed in Chelek 1 – in Siman 37. The teshuva can be read on-line at http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=20021&st=&pgnum=119 (at the bottom of the page).
In any case, everyone agrees that it is prohibited. The only question is is it because of lo tikravu and yehareg uval yaavor or derabbanan because of a fence and devarim mechuarim, in which case it is not yehareg uval yaavor.
Hello, you’re right about ??. However, convincing others not to supppoert these groups is definitely a toelet.As for his beliefs, all criminals think that they are doing the right thing according to there codes of behavior. Would you delete all of the references to, for example, Abe “Kid Twist” Reles’ career because of a takkanant kadmonim and the fact that he thought that he was ridding the world of “dirty rats”? He, in fact, told the Brooklyn DA that he always knew that Hashem exists and according to one story I read never carried out a “contract” on Shabbat and being that he was a Cohen never in an enclosed area. The criteria is that the actions are well-known to be prohibited. He is thus presumed to know just that either he does not care for one reason or another.
Health,
1. I have already posted several reasons for being meikal and it has been noted that Rav Ovadia and other rabbanim were personally meikal.
2. If there a machlokot within the Chareidi camp (which is not just Aguda) why shouldn’t there be within the National Religious camp (which is not just Mizrachi)?
Crazybrit, you are over on motzi shem ra.
CG,
1. The three oaths are not brought to haalcha by any of the major codifiers.
2. The Chatam Sofer says (Responsa OC end oif 51) that someone who mixes Halacha and Aggada is like someone who makes kilayim.
3. Rav Meir Simcha, who was an ardent supporter of Zionism in general and the JNF (HaTor, 2nd publising year, 3rd edition)in particular wrote (HaTekufa HaGedola pg. 174) that since the San Remo Conference there is no problem of rebelling against the Goyim. The Netziv also noted that the Zionist movement operated legally in Russia (Shivat Tzion 17). Moreover, the Goyim violated their end of the bargain (to not persecute us “too much”) on several occasions so the deal is off anyway.
4. Which nations living in the Land? The Druze, Beduin and Circassians are all loyal citrizens who serve in the IDF. The “Palestinians” are actualy an erev rav of Arabs wo came from other countries in search of economic opportunities opened up by the Zionists.
Hello, see Rambam Hilchot Melachim at the end of Chapter 3, Ran Derasha 11, Rema Choshen Mishpat 3, Avneui Nezer YD 312:46-52 and Mishpat Cohen (Rav Kook) 147 regarding the powers of the secular authorities. See also He’emek Devar Devarim 17:14 that the Am has the option of a representative democracy to carry out these powers (Abarbanel, if I remember correctly in his introduction to Parashat Shoftim, even states that it is far preferable to monarchy and also states that the people choose the judges of the batei din of three and twenty-three as they have the right to decide who will judge them. Israeli judges are chosen by a committee which includes the people’s representatives).
Hello, you’re right. I meant 8:7. Regarding the Be’er Mayim Chaim, in section 14 he states that “everyone” knows that the action is prohibited. Are there people who do not know that it is prohibited to assault and terrorize fellow Jews? In subsection 15 he says that one does not have to intend some benefit such as causing people to distance themselves from him or causing him to do teshuva when he sees people’s reaction to his malefactions. It is sufficient not to enjoy condemning him due to personal hatred, to not exaggerate and not to condemn him priavtely unless he fears him or does not want to create a machloket. He must intend leshem Shemayim to cause others to hate him so as not to learn from his actions. I cannot speak for the writer of the piece but I imagine that he does not even know the individual.
I wonder if in a previous gilgul he insisted on staying in France, Germany or Poland because the Nazis were obviously talking about other Jews (respectively, German Jews whom they considered traitors during WWI, Polish Jews whom they looked down upon as foreign and primitive and Russian Jews whom the considered to be Communists).
CG, all these groups put together make up a microscopic portion f the Jewish people. With the exception of the Badatz hashgacha (which is not acceptable to Sephardi chareidim who have their own hechsherim)nobody with the exception of journalists looking to flll space and other Charedi groups who fight with them from time to time.(Belz once put the Eida in cherem and the Yeshivish wing was angered by their attacks on Rav Eliashiv) pays much attention to them.
Health, he was judged according mishpat hamelech. See also Sefer Chafetz Chaim 8:5 that for lashon hara it is sufficient if everyone knows that he is a rasha because of the constant bad stories about him whose veracity they do not doubt. See also Choshen Mishpat 34:1 that even if only one person knows that the person is guilty it is assur for him to testify in bet din along with him because of “al teshet yadcha im rasha” (Sma).
Health, you are over on dan bekaf zechut. Are you bochen kelayot velev? As for the former IDF Chief Rabbi’s postition, is this the first time you have encountered a disagreement among rabbanim?
Very few are real atheists. In fact, Rav Kook pointed out that even in his time those who “opposed” Tora did not know what they were “opposing”. The problem is that the Medina is not run 100% according to Halacha (Rambam, in Hilchot Melachim 4:10, counts four jobs of the secular authorities: defense, fighting crime, establishing justice and spreading Tora. According to the Avnei Nezer in YD 312 they are only to stop aveirot ben adam lechavero not aveirot ben adam laMakom such as chillul Shabbat). The main problem being the civil justice system (the criminal justice system is anything the public, as the equivalent of the king, wants)is not run according to Halacha and that part of the educational system more-or-les ignores Jewish traditions. The solution is for frum Jews to make aliya, become citizens and vote for change and for Tora learners to learn and teach hilchot medina.
So far as I know you could have paid with a credit card. Perhaps the customs agent thought htat it loked new. Unfortunately, many people try to slip things in and this has led to a feeling of an adversary relationship. Contact AACI. They have counselors who help people with these and other issues involving the Israeli system.
BTW, the Americans are no better and even worse. I was asked suspiciously why my passport was issued in Yerushalayim and there was a case where an Israeli couple was expelled for having a picture of the Ben Ish Chai which the customs officials took to be Bin Laden.
I also think that the teshuva is very straightforward. The boy wanted to go out with a certain girl and perhaps was already going out with her as the introduction states that his rabbonim had tried to speak to him about it. The boy claimed that they were not over on negiah or yichud but never claimed that it was merely platonic (“reut” implies a closer relationship). “Chibba” means affection. This is, in fact, clear from the Shach in YD 157:10, where he talks about “negia derech chibba” (he specifically brings the case in the Gemara of a man who fell in love with an eshet ish) and 159:20, where he uses the term “derech chibba vetaavat biah” (as you implied, the Shach brings that there is a machloket Rishonim regarding whether this is d’Oraita or derabbannan). Rav Moshe also stated explicitly that if the boy wanted a platonic friendship he would seek out other boys (although it is true that many other rabbanim have stated that even if it does start as a platonic friendship it will perforce lead to something more, especially among teenagers). He then went on to say that even if they are not now over on yichud or negiah one thing will lead to another (thus according to the opinion that it is derabbana it is a fence around the Tora).
If someone has been convicted of violent crimes and the matter is generally known it would seem that he is muchzak barabbim as a rasha. The store owner’s problems with this mafia are also well known.
That being the case, it would have been bettr to write something along the lines of “crime does not pay” or “be warned” and some hope that he does teshuva. Just as Hashem does not desire to punish a rasha and takes no pleasure when He must do so neither should we.
Raphael, I think this was the reason for the differentiation between ceremonies and entertainment. There is also an issue of always following the mara d’atra – in this case the IDF Chief Rabbi. In the Army this is especially important being that, as is well known, for eevry two Jews there are three opinions.There have already been clashes between a rosh yeshivas’ pesakim and a chaplains’ pesakim so it could be that Rav Peretz is asserting his authority.Probably though when things cool down there will be unofficial, quiet exceptions.
Mom, Yaakov also davened and prepared for war.
Health,
1. It is only a mitzva to mock and ridicule avoda zara. Nobody holds the Medina is a divinity.
2. Zionism has alsao been supported by gedolim and frum Jews since its inception.
3. If you do not want to be part of the solution then you are part of the problem.
Health,
1. An individual soldier will not hear the same singer “all of the time”. He will not even hear singers all of the time. Only here and there when his unit is sent to the ceremony. There is about as much chance of him deloping a friendship with her as there is of someone developing a friendship with one of the Republican contenders by going to a debate.
2. Only rabbanim associated with microscopic groups like the Eida HaChareidit and NK (if they are considered a Jewish group and not a breakaway, heretical sect) assur voting. All of the rest hold that it is a mitzva. Some even support specific parties.
3. How is it easier to be frum in America? Everything is according to the Goyish calendar. To get off for Shabbat or Yom Tov you have to put in a special request. You can’t even write the Jewish date on a check. There are no mitzvot taluyot baAretz. Ramban, in fact, states that there are only mitzvot in Tumaland in order to practice for Eretz Yisrael.
4. Look inside yourself. Rav Moshe states explicitly that the boy wants to go out with a girl even though neither is old enough to think about shidduchim. “Reut” means something more than mere friendship. Rav Moshe also uses the term “dibbur leshem chibba” (speaking for the purpose of affection) and uses the word “chibba” in several other places.
5.”If you want to be friends with a girl more than with a boy there must be an underlying, even subconcious, physical affection”. You are contradicting yourself. First you say it was paltonic then you say it was the opposite. In any case, the boy did not say that he wanted the girls friendship more than a boy’s. Rav Moshe said that if all he wanted was friendship he would seek out other boys.
Josh, there is a difference between “attack” and “ridicule and mock”. There is an obligation to attack actions which are improper as did the nevi’im. However, one must refrain from ridiculing and mocking – that is to say attacking the person rather than the action.
Hello, he uses the term “leshem chibba” – for the purpose of affection.
Health, if you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem. BTW, the term “treife medina” was originally applied to the US. When Rav Aharon Kotler was trying to decide to where to escape he used the goral haGra and came up with “Aharon followed Moshe into the desert”. He understood that he was supposed to follow Rav Moshe into the desert of Tora.
Rav Kook says in his perush on the siddur, Olat Rayah, that we ask Hashem to save us from a chaver ra after already asking Him to save us from a bad person because sometimes when two good people get together (mitchabrim) there is a bad result. This, Rav Kook says, is connected to the secret of neshamot that Hashem keeps to himself. I think that the same applies to choosing a rebbe. You come acrosss a rav with whom you feel a good kesher. Whether you choose him because of his hashkafa or choose your hashkafa because of him is probably a chicken-and-the-egg question unless you are very young. As for confiding, this is dependant on one’s personality. Some people tend to keep their own counsel, others confide in just about anyone and the rest are somewhere in the middle.
From the Wikipedia article on Jabotinsky:
Obviusly Weizman did not consider saving all of Europe’s Jews a possibility in the face of British opposition. You can also google “Bergson Group”.
HaKatan, two possibleexplanations were given by a NYTimes book reviewer edited, we don’t allow links
1. Ben-Gurion was cynically writing off half of Europe’s Jews
2. He was explaining that without a Jewish state they would be doomed anyway.
This could also apply to Gruenbaum’s statement. Weizman’s obviously means that the old ones had no hope and the Zionists had to save whom it was possible to save. In any case, you do not mention the transfer plan whose goal was to bring over all of Germany’s Jews nor do you mention Ben-Gurion’s insistence that all Jews would have th right to make aliya despite the desperate economic condition of the new state. Nor do you mention the fact that the albeit controversial Rudolf Yisrael Kastner saved the Satmar Rebbe and other religious leaders.
Nor do you mention the Zionists of other political stripes, such as Jabotinsky, who warned the Jews of Europe of what was being planned to no avail.
So far as the “declaration of war” is concerned, this refers to the boycott of German goods instituted by various Jewish organizations. This was at a time when a united boycott could have brought down the Nazi government and prevented even the early discriminatory laws. After the Nazis felt strong enough there entire goal was to wipe out the Jewish people c”v. Even towards the end of the war they diverted railroads desperately needed to bring supplies to the front to bringing Jews to concentration camps.
In nay case, we are arguing about people who have long gone on to their final judgements. The State of Israel is a fact. Make aliya, become a citizen and at least vote for change.
hello, Rav Moshe is talking about a romantic phone call in the context of a teshuva about dating.
Zahava, the term is “eshet yaffet toar” (beautiful woman).
Health, this is not gilui arayot. According to some opinions it is even muttar lechatchila as I have posted several times. Therefore, it is totally appropriate for a rav to be meikal if he feels that the situation warrants. In nay case, as I have posted, the fault for the fact that Israel is not yet a completely (there are also many good points – as Rav Kook said light and darkness are blended together) tora state lies squarely on the shoulders of those frum Jews who come here but do not become citizens and vote as wel as those who choose not to come because of their love of Galut (= chet hameraglim).
HaKatan, actually the Zionists made a deal to transfer German Jews to Eretz Yisrael. They would have transferred all of Europe’s Jews if the British ym”s had not stopped them.
Health,
1. Who said he “suddenly” became an anti-Semite. He represented that faction of Islam which divides the world into the world of Islam and the world of war and sees Jihad as being a literal war against the “non-believers”.
2. Rav Kook likened this to the ignorant workmen coming into the Bet HaMikdash in their soiled clothing and muddy boots to make repairs (bedek haBayit). He also blamed the frum Jews of Europe for not making aliya when hte gatres were wide open under Sir Herbert Samuel and “taking over” the Zionist movement democraticly. This also applies today. As rabbiof berlin wrote, Medinat Yisrael is a fact. The question is (and I heard this in the name of Rav Dessler): what do we do with it? There are approximately 700-800K Orthodox Jews outside Israel. If they would make aliya, become citizens and vote this would represent approximately 12 (depending on what percentage vote as a proportion of the total voters) additional Knesset seats. Hamevin yavin.
Helath, just as there are machlokets among us there are machlokets among Moslems. The Mufti had delusions of reestablishing the Caliphate with himself as head as I have posted. If he had succeeded c”v he woiuld have reduced the few Jews (he certainly would not have allowed those expelled by the Turks during WW1 to return) to the low status they had under Moslem rule. In any case, it is a mitzva d’Oraita to conquer Eretz Yisrael and establish a state as I have already written several times.
HaKatan, if we would all convert or assimilate into secular Americathat would end the problem forever. Is that what yoou want? Anti-Semitism has nothing to do with a State or not being true-blue Americans, etc. We are hated because we are.
Sushe and HaKatan,
1.Ramban states explicitly that there is a mitzva in every time to go to war to conquer Eretz Yisrael. Some explain Rambam’s silence as his opinion that the mitzva of conquering the Land is included in another mitzva or mitzvot.
2. It is far safer in Israel than in other countries where Jews live, especially if one adds regular crime to hate crime.
Sam,
1. As I posted Rav Aviner madethe statement about an enjoyment one is compelled to receive. I quoted the Gemara as an example. Othewise Rabbi Hyya bar Abba would have said that the man must cancel his plans and not just praise him for closing his eyes.
2.Who says that aiva doies not apply to Jews? As for pikuach nefesh, there is a mitzva to go into the Army to defend the country and its people as set forth in Rambam Hilchot Melachim.
3. The Seridei Esh speaks about zemirot, song in praise of Hashem, etc. The Sede Chemed in the name of theDivrei Chefetz talks about kinot. Rabbi Bleich discusses this in his article.
4. It could be that sevral heterim are needed and I listed several.
5. That is not the way secular people think. Professional singers especially consider this an expresssion of their whole beings.How would you feel if someone would get up and leave when you started to speak knowing that it is because he disagrees with you? In any case, it is not my statement but that of Rav Yosef Carmel of EWretz Chemda. If you want to argue with him, send him an e-mail at http://eretzhemdah.org/contactus.asp?PageId=10.
6. See this statement by Rav Metzger at this site (http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/General+News/113890/Rabbi-Metzger-Comments-On-Resignation-Of-Air-Force-Rav-Ravaad.html):
Chief rabbis over the generations took part in state ceremonies, which to my sorrow included kol isha. This includes Rabbi Ovadia Yosef. They did not walk out in protest. They found their own personal solution, perhaps to concentrate on learning or something else. When I was a soldier for example I did walk out but I was not chief rabbi then.
If Rav Ovadia did not feel required to leave what can we say?
Getting back to the topic of kol isha (As I have already posted, no one today knows how to give rebuke. The Chofetz Chaim said that ????? is related to ?????. You have to prove it to him – in a way that he can accept) , there are several reasons to be meikal:
1. They do not have a choice in order to do there military service, which is a great mitzva. Merely being in a place where there is immodesty is muttar for any need (Baba Batra 57b). Rav Aviner posited that an enjoyment one is forced to get is not called an enjoyment.
2. According to many poskim issurei d’rabbanan are allowed ???? ???? (see Responsa Chatam Sofer Vol 2 Yoreh Deah 131 and Mishna Berura 330,8). This, of course, is assuming that kol isha is rabbinic – and there are such sheetot.
3. There are heterim for songs which are not intended for enjoyment (Sedeh Chemed Klalaim Maarechet HaKuf 42 in the name of Divrei Chefetz) and Seridei Esh 2:14. This would certainly apply to the types of songs sung at military ceremonies.
4. There is heter for several people singing together based on ??? ???? ?? ????? (Chatan Sofer Orech Chaim Shaar HaTaharot Yadayim 14).
5. Embarassing the singer in public where the soldier walks out (Rav Carmel).
Thus a rav can certainly allow soldiers to go to such ceremonies. The one to decide is the mara d’atra, the IDF Chief Rabbi (as ruled Rav Yaakov Ariel).
For a general discussion of the issue of kol isha see Contemporary Halachic Problems col. 2 pg. 147.
Popa,
1. The moderator will decide whether or not you are heard on this site.
2. We were talking about yehareg uval yaavor not whether it is prohibited. The rabbis realized that this was a put-on.
3. The point is that an action done under compulsion is not considered an action. See Rambam Hilchot Melachim 10:1 that a Ben Noach is patur when anus because he is not chayav in kiddush Hashem. This is the chiyuv of yehareg uval yaavor (therefore a Jew who does so because of onus is also patur as he is mevatel an asseh).
Sam, I heard that they also sang shirei Eretz Yisrael – which are also praises of Hashem. There are also heterim for other types of songs where there is no intent to get hanaah from her voice as brought down by Rabbi B;leich. Bli neder when I have some more time I will see if the sources are on the Internet.
Sam,
1. There is a similar machloket regarding shaking hands with a woman. Both Rav Shimon Schwaband his brother asked shailot (of different rabbanim). One was told yehareg vealyaavor and the other was told muttar. Regarding an individual this is fine and common but the Army obviously needs a unified pesak. The address is obviously the IDF Chief Rabbi, who is the mara d’atra (so paskened Rav Yaakov Ariel).
2.From the Chief of Staff’s tone (I heard him on the radio) and the fact that he created a stir by making a joke about it I gathered that he does not want this but needs to do it because of pressure from feminists and singers who for some reason feel personally offended. Thus, even if it is assur it is hanaat atzmo.
Regarding giving a heter, many times issurei derabbana are allowed mishum aiva. Here it is even easier as there are heterim which already exist. One is the microphone. The Seridei Esh mentions zemirot and shirei Eretz Yisrael, which might apply to the type of songs sung at military ceremonies (and the purpose of these ceremonies is morale, which is very important to combat soldiers). Another, put forth by Rav Shlomo Aviner, who is not known as a meikal on tzniut, is that any hanaah the soldier receives is against his will and therefore not halachically hanaah. There is a similar sheetta which says that any melacha one is compelled to do on Shabbat is a melacha she’ain tzericha lagufa and therefore according to Rabbi Shimon (according to whom most Rishonim pasken) it is an issur derabbanan. The Chatam Sofer, the Minchat Yitzchak and others use this to allow giving medical treatment to a Goy on Shabbat mishum aiva (Rav Gustman added that the doctor would lose his license and thus be unable to treat Jews). Rav Yosef Carmel of Eretz Chemda posited that walking out would be embarassing the singer in public. Rav Metzger, who himself does not walk out when women sing at ceremonies, said that he takes his mind off her by saying Tehillim to himself (although he added that this is a difficult heter to give to a bachur).
3. The Gemara is talking about an eshet ish. The doctors started with asking to allow him to be with her. This is clearly not allowed even for pikuach nefesh. Later they tried to bargain and went down to a conversation and just seeing her in the altogether. Obviously, this was just an excuse.
Sushe, the Zionists di not radicalize the Arabs. In fact, just after the Balfour Declaration the Emir Faisal met witrh Chaim Weizman and expressed support for Zionism from an Islamic perspective similar to what Fundamentalists are saying today although without statements about converting us chas veshalom. The radicalization was carried out by the Mufti of Yerushalayim ym”s, whjo was an admirer of yemach shemo in Germany and had delusions of reestablishing the Caliphate (under his rule, of course). Thus, in Tarpat the Arabs massacred non-Zionist Tora learners in Chevron. The mob included those with whom the Jews had long-standing good personal relations.
As for the pre-Zionist situation is concerned, for years Ashkenazim had to masquerade as Sephardim because any Ashkenazi founs was imprisoned for debts on the Churva synagogue. Not to mention the Damascus blood libel.
Popa, your prustkeit shows from where you are coming. The Chief of Staff said that there is room in the Army for women to contribute according to their abilities. The extent and its ramifications for frum soldiers is a matter for the Army Chief Rabbi, who is the mara d’atra, in consultation with the General Staff to decide.The purpose is not to make soldiers do aveirot but for what is seen as the unity of the Army. Thus, at worst it is hana’at atzmo. Actually, considering how girls behaved at Frank Sinatra, Elvis Presley and Beatles concerts (which no boy did at any concert of any female singer) there might be room for a takkana on kol ish as apparently Nature changed. However, we do not have the power to do so or to eliminate the prohibition of kol isha. Poskim, however, do have the power of heter in different situations – and this ower is preferable (Beitza 2b – and while you are dusting off your seforim look at the Tiferet Yisrael at the beginning of the masechta regarding the pronunciation of the name of the masechta).
Popa, anything which is needed for the morale of the troops is part of pikuach nefesh. Obviously there was a reason why a distinction was made between ceremonies and entertainment.
As for heterim, read Rabbi Bleich’s article on the subject in Contemporary Halachic Problems (offhand I do not remeber if it is in vol. 1 or 2 but you might benefit from both volumes).
See Mishna Berura 561:2 (written when the Turks were in control) that even when the cities of Yehuda are populated by Jews they are considered desolate so long as there is not Jewish rule. See also (if you have a version not censored by the anti-Zionists) Chiddushei Chatam Sofer Sukka 36a that any work one does in Eretz Yisrael is a kiyum of the mitzva of building the Land. Thus, the zionists were and are filled with mitzvot like a pomegranate.
HaKatan, if not for the Zionists the Arabs would have slaughtered whatever few Tora learners there were in Eretz Yisrael (as they did in Tarpat). Rav Soloveichik said that if not for the State almost all the surviviors of the Holocaust would have assimilated out of fear and depression.
Popa, there are heterim, for example, if she sings through a micrrophone. Obviously the Army Rabbinate was consulted and it was decided that there is a need which justifies relying on kulot.
What about the fact that you are mevatel an asseh (Rambam Hilchot Melachim 5:1 AND 6:4)? As we all know, an asseh is doche a lo taaseh (if kol isha is d’oraita, which is not clear). Not to mention the fact that the Chofetz Chaim encouraged young Jewish men to join Goyish armies – and asked those who planned to dodge the draft what they would do when we have our owm state and army -even though they would have to do many more issurim.
Cantgetit, Rav Shach gave each person who asked a personal pesak (as with everything else). Once, a very promising bachur felt a strong need to join the IDF (it was during wartime). His rabbanim brought him to Rav Shach and he told them not to “break” the boy. B”H he is still frum. How much more so boys who are not cut out for learning and will at best hang around the coffee machine (in Israeli slang there is even a word for them: parparim – butterflies) or at worst become part of the Shaba Charedi and terrorize their neighbors – as is happening in Mea Shearim.
Health,
1. Which gedolim? You remind me of the pashkavillim wroiters who sign “harabbanim shelita”. Which rav? The erev rav? Harav im kulam?
2. Learn Tanach – unless your “gedolim” have banned it as Zionistic. David had an army. Learn Gemara. Just as Yoav needed David, David needed Yoav (Sanhedrin 49a)
3. I doubt very much that Rav Shach stood up just because he liked his grandson. He stood up davka when he was in uniform – he stood up for the uniform.
4. Is it also assur to have dealings with the Medina in order to take or just to give?
5. Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach (I presume thaty ou have heard of him) used to go to Har Herzl to visit kivrei tzaddikim. He was very machmir that one should violate Shabbat to make things easier for combat soldiers in wartime.
I think that they are talking about a newspaper of the same name – especially as the YWN article said that the background is a dispute with Yated.
Health, who? Rav Soloveichik supported the establishment of the state. The leader of the Aguda in Eretz Yisrael signed the Declaration. Those in favor of settlement of the Land as a prelude to a state also include the Or Sameach, trhe Avnei Nezer, the Netziv and the Chofetz Chaimand the admors of Hosiatin, Ostrovtza and Gur (the Sefat Emmet)
Gatesheader, the true analogy is someone reneging on his part of a contract. In any case, Rav Meir Simcha said that being that the Goyim agreed the the establishment of the State it is not rebellion. Not to mention the fact that the three oaths are not brought down as halacha in any of the major works. Not to mention the fact that the miracles of the establishment of the State have shown that the time has come.