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Also I’m done with this conversation, you can review the tshuva with a real Rav and ask if this issue is comparable to a case of treif meat
No, but the issue involved in coed schools is not literally walking into a classroom with with boys and girls in it. The issue is being in an environment that may store up inappropriate thoughts or lead to inappropriate actions. Similar to going to a mall, or a water park ect.
Exactly, you must build other schools.
While gathering funds and finding rabbaim for two schools, what do you do? That doesn’t happen quickly. If you come up short on money and teachers, what do you do?
Lchatchila you build, you search for better options. When it’s not there, may you send a frum child or teen to a coed school or in those circumstances, or must you sit the school year out?He is clearly speaking lchatchila as he answers it’s assur to have mixed classes and stresses you must go to a non coed yeshiva. He does not address when no such option exists, do you mix, go to public school, or not go to school at all.
Kol shecain if there are such schools, no? Granted it’s assur to choose a coed school over a separate school. But a coed school over public, or an unlicensed home school? In that particular case, do we say they’re equally assur, so better public school to involve fewer Jews in an aveira, or a coed Yeshiva high school to get at least some Torah. I don’t see where R’ Moshe is addressing that specifically.
He very clearly says it’s not always assur, there are cases it would be allowed.
I think they don’t really understand what assur means
I believe he says attend, not open. Is there a psak from American gedolim that say it’s always assur to send to coed schools, even in cases where the parents can’t send out of town? I’ve seen a few tshuvos in passing, not an expert. Rav Moshe seems to say co-ed schools should be avoided, but I don’t think he says assur always to attend.
He says you can open and attend if needed. Im not sure what financial situation is considered nescesary, just that if the schools are not financially stable enough separately, you can (or should) combine them otherwise people would send to public schools. It sounds like sending out of town to separate schools is clearly a better options, im just saying there no reason to say what this school or community is doing is clearly assur.
Rav ovadiah Yosef says co-ed yeshivah high school is better than public school, for communities that can only support one school. There are number sh’ut seforim that discuss it.
To the op, Shmuely yanklowitz has said in an interview I heard that when he covered a second time it was more chareidi (his words), and he was living in Lakewood before moving more towards open Orthodoxy?.
I tried to find some sources for it, couldn’t come up with anything
My shabbos Tallis is non slip, weekday is regular, slight difference
On a side note, how about the Whitehouse officially not mentioning 6 million Jews killed in the Holocaust because “all innocent people suffered” during the Holocaust. I voted Trump, but that statement Literally sounds like a Holocaust deniers prepared it.
It’s time for the truth, just about everyone pasken like R Shlomo Zalman ztl, and is machmir unless it’s tzarich gamur. Does Rav Dovid hold you can never use a shabbos elevator? ( And a shabbos elevator is really the same as a regular elevator in the case you are discussing due to not pushing buttons).
Joseph, no. I’m saying some rishinom don’t hold that there is a strict “halachic line” of calf, knee, above knee, ECT…, that hold its dependent up to a point, and when the gemmarah refers to calf it was not to give halacha definition. I know that is not the halcha. They all to my knowledge hold a tank top would not be allowed as well.
The only difference is a borderline case, “at the knee” that when your sitting might be iffy. Some people have said that is clearly assur, I’m saying we pasken it’s assur.
Ym moderator 29, that is specifically not the context of the sources I gave. What you are saying is the Sevara to argue, (Wich is the psak we accept) and is based on the language and names of the parts of the body the gemarra uses. But other rishinim and achronim specifically do not distinguish above the calf, knee, above knee, ECT..
Clarification: upper arms and Above the calves
Shulchan Aruch Orach Chaim 75:1 talks about how tznious is dependent to your surroundings
Rashi in Kesubos 72a includes calf as such a case, Kaf Hachayim 75:2 includes calf and arms, and I believe Rav Moshe also includes calf and arms as depending on your community but I need to double check. ( They all say body/low neckline is always ervah).
Bottom line it is not completely clearly Assur by chazal, there are many more sources who hold arms and knees are not always ervah.
Lilmod ulamemaid, Previous posts address halacha of tznious, please provide sources for where chazal state above knees and above elbows is completely Assur.
David Rosenthal, check out topic Izhbitza chassidus and open Orthodox
Open Orthodox say they follow all “Cardinal Precepts” very carefully and even more than most. because they take more rishonim into account.
I saw the letter from the moetzes hagedolah about OO, is that what you are referring to by stating “OO has been declared off-the-map of Orthodoxy” by rabbanim?
Open Orthodox basically does not believe there is Torah Hashkafa. They openly say that we should find a way to make Torah reflect what we feel is right, and follow or own moral senses. Example, find a way to have women rabbis, activily support homosexual right to marriage, ECT…
They openly say they do these things because they are the right thing to do, therefore do it. And just because the Torah seems to not support it, look harder and be more creative and you’ll find a support