Forum Replies Created
The little I know, we often do judge character when it comes to cases that affect the rabbim. Carlebach gave smicha to women, amd was a instrumental in women of the wall, both thi gs we activilely dissascociate with. I don’t know of anyone who goes to hear women of the wall or yct rabbis on certain topics because it lifts them spiritually and than separate from them because of there other behaviors. Carlebach really pushed his ideology and from what I know we do cut ties with leaders of dangerous movements like that. But for some reason, we just like his songs and they get a pass.
To be clear I’m talking about his ideology, and actions in his shuls, removing mechitzos ect. Not his personal character or negiah issue
I understand, and grew up I. Shuls that ocasiionaly used his niggunim, but I would think not using his songs is clearly the right thing. He pretty openly pushed for some shocking thing, bordering on conservative ideology. We wouldnt use conservative “good tunes”
Clarification post: I’m wondering how some communities use his niggunim, give some controversial ideas and practices he used, even when they were clearly against what these communities stand for.
Thanks for all the responses, much appreciated
Yichusdik, you aren’t discussing what yeridos hadoros is at all, I don’t understand what the point of saying those authors quote past authors is. Your post was in response to low level. This is in the context of yeridos hadoros. Are just saying intelligent atheists are around? Russell routinely described himself as agnostic, in Why I’m not a Christian as well as his essays in religion and science., ect. That was the scale. Your post seems to me like a forced opportunity to mention atheists names. Even your response doesn’t seem to have a point other than you are familiar with atheism, but doesn’t say why it might be more developed than past athiesm, or more developed than past theology wich would be heretical to judaism. You’ve read one book of Dawkins (the one everyone read), know a lot about existesialism due to two courses therefore speak to sartre positions, and own one of Russell’s works wich has the least of his own opinion in it. But you’re an Orwell expert, and heard Hitchens speak. I maintain your post was very disingenuous.
If you’re interested In Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris ect., Dennett is the best of the lot
ychusdik, yeridos hadoros would compel us to compare those thinkers to minds of the past, not just ask if they’re intelligent or not. It also clear from your post you haven’t read their works(names are incorrect – not just spelling – and not differentiating agnostic and atheist even though you mention both terms, no mention of any particular work), it’s disingenuous to call others out.
Catch yourself, the absence of evidence to support the claim of gravity is evidence that there is no gravity even though no evidence was brought to discredit the theory of gravity.
Here is how people use the phrase “lack of evidence …”,
Lack of evidence for theory A doesn’t mean it’s been discredited (not no evidence is not the same thing as evidence)
However If I claim A because of observation B (usually how theory are born), and B doesn’t really happen, I do not need to evidence against your claim A, because you’ve given an expectation of B. Often, there isn’t an expectation of B. If I come along and say C is inconsistent, that’s evidence against.
Bemigman, read my first post, that is what I wrote above. It wasn’t clear because the second was a follow up.
I am not confusing it with burden of proof. Absence of evidence can be actual evidence if whatever you are claiming calls for a specific result and the result doesn’t come through. That would be evidence that the claim is incorrect. That is not burden of proof.
Catch yourself: A catchy quote is an oversimplification and completely misses what evidence is supposed to be ie support a claim. Absence of evidence isnt evidence against is only because there may be other evidence. Certainly if you’ve ruled all possible evidence out, that is evidence against whatever was trying to be supported. The less evidence there is, the less reason to believe it, and as you rule out possible evidence, the less likely there will be reason to believe it. With is evidence against, as it moved you in another direction, even though at some point it is possible to swing the other way. Reiyah is a proof if I’m not mistaken.
If what you are trying to prove creates a strong expectation of evidence, than the absence of evidence is evidence against.
E.g.. it snowed all day and just stopped, but there is no snow outside. The absence of evidence to the claim makes it evident that it did not snow all day.December 28, 2017 8:07 pm at 8:07 pm in reply to: New Details About Ger That Got Married And Is Now A Rebbe #1439043
I read his bio on the above link, ( I may have been sent somewhere else from that page) where he described his path to Judaism, and what went into his chassidus. He lists what he’s versed and learned in, zero mention of gemarah. He lists many many other things. I wish him hatzlacha, but I doubt he’s qualified to lead a chassidus
I’m an urban planner/engineer. Community input meetings are common and usually at night, but in my experience those are the latest nights. As you may already know, A LOT of collaboration, and A LOT of communication with people out of your office, inevitably leading to A LOT of lost time due to confusion. Addiitionaly, A LOT of government red tape. The pay is decent but not a fortune, and actually differs a lot regionaly, so I cant speak to thst really.
To chabad shlucha and sechel and others. I don’t know how you made it this long. These chabad threads were unfair when the mods edited shlucha for “chashash apikorsus” (doubtful). They allowed a comment in calling the Rebbe some kofer from Russia.
We also allowed a comment calling the Rebbe Nasi Hador. The facts are up for discussing, apikorsus is not.
What you are saying is an explanation on a source can’t be it’s own source. The Rebbe said it can the the reason the rebbe is correct. Chabad isn’t really saying that (even if they are using those words). EG. If you ask where the ramabm got a halacha, you can give the lamdus of where it came from, but I can ask why he is the lone opinion, and the only reaponse is his own svara. Thus he has a source that no one agrees with, and his way of understanding is his own source. Similar to lubavaitch understanding the rambam and different understandings of the Zohar ect. That’s true of pretty much all machlokes. The Rebbe may be wrong, but Chabads way of thinking is really not illogical if his argument is sound, wich chabad for whatever reason thinks is.
Seriously curious, Is there a reason someone like the Chazon Ish isn’t also nasi hador? He created a frum community and hareadi movement in Israel. Is it simply he didn’t say so? Would there be a way to verify? And if not, does Chabad believe in an infinite number of moshiach or nisiam ha door? Let me Kno when if this was answered in other posts. Thanks for the discussion and holding up to the daggers
Is there a reason someone like the Chazon Ish isn’t also nasi hador? He created a frum community and hareadi movement in Israel. Is it simply he didn’t say so? Would there be a way to verify? And if not, does Chabad believe in an infinite number of moshiach or nisiam ha door? Let me Kno when if this was answered in other posts
@Put the gun down, put down your gun, someone skimmed 7 pages of posts instead of reading and remembering each Lubavaitcher position it’s really not a big deal. His point was his experience with Chabad.
Burntface, what do you mean lubavaitch has less? Lubavaitch has a tremendous amount of Torah from alter Rebbe to tzemach tzedek, RASHAB, ect. Do you mean Crown Heights?
@moshiach chat, can you please source where the called himself a Navi? Other lubavaitch and knowledgeable people of course can answer
professor Menachem Friedman of bar ilan in a published a study on chabad history, says the student records of the Rebbe as a student in Berlin, and in Paris state he never graduated and dropped many courses
Rso raises a good point about the Rogotchover. I’ve read the Rebbe never actually earned an engineering degree as well. I’ll find the author who published that. anecdotally, I know a fair amount of adult lubavaitch, and they believe a lot of what some would call bubba meisas. Candle height at havdala determines shidduch, Hitler never took his shoes off ect.
Somewhat important backround, It should be noted, the opening perakim is the Tanya establishing his take on Tzadik vetov like/ Vera love/ Beinoni on a number of stiros between a number of gemmarahs. So the ideas of yetzer hara ect.. are his explanations on aggadici gemarrahs and statements chazal made and should be analyzed as such. its based in specific statements in chazal. Chabadshlucha didn’t go into that, because its the coffee room, and some commenters seem to be assuming the tanya just said those things. Nothing to do with moshiach stuff, just the questions on Tzadik and different pesukim.
Daas yochid, you think like a meshichist
Are there leading mishichist rabbaim, that are respected scholars that really write about and defend their position?November 20, 2017 10:45 pm at 10:45 pm in reply to: Does “Chasidish” refer to both Satmar and Lubavitch? #1407832
responses to responses that don’t follow the what the original response was for?!?! The posters are too charged to realize they’re saying things nor in relation to what they think they’re responding too. Sad even for an online forumNovember 20, 2017 10:45 pm at 10:45 pm in reply to: Does “Chasidish” refer to both Satmar and Lubavitch? #1407828
This thread is one hot mess
Gaon, and many more routinely cite the Moreh, but my impression (sort of confirmed in earlier comments) is that in more Yeshivish communities it is not studied, even when dealing with machshava. Many other sources come first, and Moreh won’t be metioned, even as a Daas Yachid the way in a halacha shiur a Daas Yachid would at least be metioned.
Twisted, Interesting, for what age group? Do you mind me asking what type of school or yeshiva?
I think it really is supposed to be the Rambams position of the basis of a Torah outlook. Im confused by what you mean by apologetics. Apologetics of what?
Haleivi, you said the complaints are his “about his Taamei Hamitzvos (which don’t show up in the Yad), his explanation of the Merkava, and the implied dependence on the Torah being agreeable to philosophy.” That’s really what I was curious about. Granted he was considered wrong for lack of a better word, people still learn those sefarim in areas of halacha. We often don’t pasken lehalacha like the Rambam, but that’s important for our understanding halacha. That is also true in machshava. Is the sefer really more out of bounds than a typical daas yachid?
I have a bachelor’s in philosophy and have, not a doctorate or anything but I think enough backround to make the call. He does say parts of it would be misunderstood by the masses, but that just as easily could mean he’s not as influenced by secular philosophy as it may seem, and we are misunderstanding his writing. Rambam/Moreh nevuchim’s approach was influenced by Aristotles style, but really only in a small area discusses his positions and conclusions. It is mostly a discussion of what he says is the correct approach to understanding difficulties in Tanach, and certain Miztvos. The Greeks didn’t deal with that.
I have not learnt more nevuchim beginning to end, but I can say with certainty less than 25% deals with greek or secular philosophy. The overwhelming majority of it is simply Rambam discussing Torah inyanim.
The ikkrei emuna are philosophy based, unless simply writing them in a halacha sefer makes them not. They are not based on mefurash pesukinm or spelled out in any gemarra as halacha.
He lists ikrei emuna based on what a torah Jew can say about and believe about hashem, olam haba, ect., Based on tanach and Shas, interpreted non literally based on his philosophical approach. It’s very clear in how he writes this in yesodei hatorah and especially his peirush hamishnayus.
We accept the Rambams definitions of what a torah Jew believes, (which was debated at the time,) but not his in depth explanation of Torah beliefs. Seems very strange. Why would we reject his philosophy work for being to philisophical but not his philosophy
Chocos ha levavos and the Kuzari were also Arabic, they were both translated and seems they are more widely studied. I find it hard to believe that we ignore a sefer simply because it’s too difficult. If that were the case it comes out we infer Ramabams Hashkafa from his hallachik works out of laziness.
Freddyfish, you seem very naive to what a drug problem is. It’s not people walking around in a daze high as a kite all day. You really wouldn’t know.November 5, 2017 12:25 pm at 12:25 pm in reply to: The Pug CRISIS in the Jewish community is UNDERrated!!! #1395813
My neighbors growing up had a pug, and I now have a pug and he’s great!September 9, 2017 10:15 pm at 10:15 pm in reply to: “Marriage counseling hastens divorce far more often than it saves a marriage” #1359311
Based only on my experience with divorced friends and aquaintences, i think the divorce problem starts before marriage. People getting married are not ready, and don’t know what to expect. Divorce rates are rising as the social fabric deteriorates.
Unrelated question: has anybody ever met someone who divorced, and then wished they had stayed married to their previous spouse?
Unrelated question 2: Joseph, are you married? If so, how long? (If that’s over the line mods can delete)
To Neville Chaimberlin: I was looking for what Chabad or Breslov says the reason is, that certainly doesn’t mean it’s correct or even grounded in reality. However, the idea that a demographic would just show “scorn” with no proclaimed reason is completely absurd. The “Chabad doesn’t like anyone” response is frankly insulting to my ability to discern a few interactions and comments I may have had vs real Chabad culture, history and sociology.
I have heard Chabad Shluchim speak highly of Aish and Hillel, and know they work together. It nice to hear you’re not antichabad
Shlichus seems to me to be entirely different than what most people call kiruv. It’s nothing like Aish, or Ohr Sameyach, Gateways, ect. Shluchim do some kiruv, but really they’re extreme volunteers that do things for people including teaching and kiruv.
Ive got some clarification. Historically Chabad and Breslov we’re in good terms like many of you have pointed out. Breslovers, particularly in Israel distanced themselves a lot ( to be kind) from Chabad during the heights of the “yechi” days. I heard from a Chabad chasid living in Israel that even the na nachs mocked lubavaitch and were more respected than Chabad. Starting from the 70’s, and I would personally guess it’s better now. But some Lubavaitchers haven’t forgiven Breslov who are also sort of outsiders
I saw that quote and translation on Facebook from D Kaplan and r markel. I don’t know if you saw it there, but many comments mentioned that they were surprised, because Chabad and Breslov don’t like each other.
Unless someone in that house would actually talk to the police or Shomrim, it wouldn’t help either. Police possibly would be better equipped to help, but it will likely be a long road.
Also I’m done with this conversation, you can review the tshuva with a real Rav and ask if this issue is comparable to a case of treif meat
No, but the issue involved in coed schools is not literally walking into a classroom with with boys and girls in it. The issue is being in an environment that may store up inappropriate thoughts or lead to inappropriate actions. Similar to going to a mall, or a water park ect.
Exactly, you must build other schools.
While gathering funds and finding rabbaim for two schools, what do you do? That doesn’t happen quickly. If you come up short on money and teachers, what do you do?
Lchatchila you build, you search for better options. When it’s not there, may you send a frum child or teen to a coed school or in those circumstances, or must you sit the school year out?
He is clearly speaking lchatchila as he answers it’s assur to have mixed classes and stresses you must go to a non coed yeshiva. He does not address when no such option exists, do you mix, go to public school, or not go to school at all.
Kol shecain if there are such schools, no? Granted it’s assur to choose a coed school over a separate school. But a coed school over public, or an unlicensed home school? In that particular case, do we say they’re equally assur, so better public school to involve fewer Jews in an aveira, or a coed Yeshiva high school to get at least some Torah. I don’t see where R’ Moshe is addressing that specifically.
He very clearly says it’s not always assur, there are cases it would be allowed.
I think they don’t really understand what assur means
I believe he says attend, not open. Is there a psak from American gedolim that say it’s always assur to send to coed schools, even in cases where the parents can’t send out of town? I’ve seen a few tshuvos in passing, not an expert. Rav Moshe seems to say co-ed schools should be avoided, but I don’t think he says assur always to attend.
He says you can open and attend if needed. Im not sure what financial situation is considered nescesary, just that if the schools are not financially stable enough separately, you can (or should) combine them otherwise people would send to public schools. It sounds like sending out of town to separate schools is clearly a better options, im just saying there no reason to say what this school or community is doing is clearly assur.