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The looks, shapes, and sizes of people reminds me rather of the Victorian era circus.
You enter the circus and pass by the Big Fat Lady or the Dwarf. You see the Tall Man over 10′ high and the Bearded Lady. They greet you with a cherry “Hello” and you walk on by horrified and wary.
Then you walk through the Hall of Mirrors and proclaim “Do I really look that fat?” walking further through you then declare ” Am I that small and wiry looking?” and further on “Is that scary odd looking person really me?”
We spend too much time looking and judging. We envisage a world of utopia, perfection. But it’s not like that. The world is like a circus made up of all sorts but underneath all are human beings with emotions and feelings.
Stop being petty and judgmental about size 2 and 4 and 10 and 14’s etc. Stop judging Chassidim. Stop saying everyone wants a slim, pretty spouse. This whole thread is getting so out of order and I am surprised at some of the comments being made which show a shallowness in many people here. Some people truely see beauty within. Some of you may find that hard to believe but that’s sorry for you that you find it hard to believe. Some people, chassidim or otherwise after a short meeting or several feel comfortable enough with the other person to agree to make a life together and good luck to them that they are not on a cosmetic level as others. Don’t assume they are not happy. Why shouldn’t they be?
I am fed up reading the comments about people gaining weight after birth, and how they look before or after dating/marriage/birth. I am fed up with some of the senseless and stupid comments being made on this thread. I am truely staggered at some of the immature remarks being made. They are not befitting frum people. They are not befitting polite, well mannered people full stop.
As I have said before, the written word is mighty powerful and some comments here have been made before thought. Think before you write.
Noitallmr. For your information if you read up on Walmart you will see that in the UK, Asda, is part of the Walmart Group. Does this help you understand the size and set-up of Walmart?
Take 6 women in six different environments but identically dressed and all six will give off a totally different impression.
It’s not so much the sheitel, but more the wearer and her overal demenour. Take into consideration her mannerisms and speech and that’s the overall impression you’ll get.
true tznius comes from within and how a woman, and man for that matter, project themselves outwardly is how they choose to project themselves and how they want to be seen.
Moshiac will come when everyone stops judging his fellow man and starts to look at himself from in and out, honestly and ruthlessly! Moshiac will come when we all stop being holier than thou and Moshiac will come when our tefillos are heard by Hashem in the true spirit of their meaning.
Please permit me a few moments of your time to respond here.
Many of you seem to be skirting around the issue. If you keep kosher and are particular about kashrus in general then don’t go to Starbucks, full stop, end of paragraph and end of conversation.
Irelevant a Rov said you may go and drink the coffee or whatever. Irrelevant you need to use your computer. Please, don’t tell me that in the State you live there is not a single other outlet for you to go to.
By avoiding places where a religious issue of any sort may arise you avoid being in the position you found yourself. The end. Any response is merely an excuse and is therefore not excusable.
In response to the point raised in respect to what people are or not appalled at, let me answer that as well, although I do not proclaim to be any more knowledgable than the next person in any particular field.
We all look up to the word image. Image controls the world. The image of the President, the image of the local Mayor, the image of the Rabbi and his family and our own image. What we can hide, we do. It makes one feel better and in some cases superior. That does not make it right nor does it correct the situation. But if one can we pretend it’s not there then maybe it will simply go away.
It takes a very strong person and in some cases a heartless person who can say, I’ll deal with this issue openly and honestly and I don’t care about the consequences. Yes, my children will be hurt and embarrassed and yes it will affect them. yes, my parents and wider family will also suffer, but hey, this must be dealt with. This is not about attention seeking this is about real human feelings and reality.
Life isn’t like that and nor is reality. The reality is that we shy away from situations we cannot face because we cannot foresee the consequences and a fear grows that we cannot control. It is not that we don’t want to deal with the matter it’s more a case of not knowing how to deal with the wider consequences.
Teenagers are young adults. They are no longer children but they are not quite adults, although most teenagers I meet would have one believe they know more about the world and the problems contained therein than any adult! Not even adulthood helps with some of the issues arising today.
Maturity of life comes with having lived a few decades as an adult. Having seen life, death, sickness, riches, poverty, children turning away from religion and life in general – suicides, alcohol, drugs. These problems that adults have lived through give them the right to comment. No teenager has the right to say what adults are or not appalled at. That sounds as though the teenager is challenging the adult.
Nor do teenagers know of the sleepless nights many an adult has over the problems facing teenagers, or young adults, as I would like to call them. Don’t assume, it’s dangerous.
It would be far better for the troubled teenager to continue looking for the right guidance than to turn away and say no-one wanted to help or listen. Perseverance is the key word here. Not excuses. An excuse is a cop-out, a way for avoiding the issue and does not show any maturity at all.
Apologies for the lengthy reply and if the end result is a little of the beaten track. Thank you.
What is Modern Orthodox? what is Liberal? what is Charedi? what is yeshivish? what is Baal Habatish? They are all labels and in each country, city and community they have a different meaning. In the USA Modern Orthodox is totally different from Europe. Baal Habatish is used in Europe but is rather derogatory in Israel. Yeshivish is used in the US but not in Europe. Labels, labels. We love labels. But where do they leave us. The leave us judgemental.
If we see a man in a shtriemel etc walking/talking with a person wearing a kippa srugar and jeans on shabbos we think, hey what’s that all about? If we see a man walking with a woman who is wearing pants and short sleeves, we think, oh dear not very religious are they.
Who mixes with who is nonsense unless you know the circumstances. Try just a little not to be quite so judgemental.
But the truth is we are all prejudiced. We like to think we’re not but we are,if we’re honest and let’s be honest here.
A person who became religious building himself up from nothing yet has internet or a tv no-one would judge. He keeps shabbos and a Bedatz kosher home and sends his children to wonderful heimish schools and we applaud him. Yet a person from an extremely religious home who has become modern in his lifestyle is heavily judged.
We tend to have a more holier than thou attitude and I cannot explain it. Perhaps it makes us feel better of ourselves when in deep reality we are not.
This post is full of cliches and I find cliches so easy to write but very rarely thought out but it sure makes the writer feel better.
The reasons why a mother feels so distressed at her daughter’s current situation and the daughter responding are private. No-one on this site knows these people (to the best of my knowledge) and yet advise is being dished out,left, right and centre. None of us have sat down with all parties concerned to listen to all sides. None of us know what really has gone on irrelevant of who says what. As I have said, words are easy and are not necessarily what is really meant.
As much as I would love to say, there, there, it’ll be alright, who am I to say anything on the matter.
I do know one thing. Whether the daughter concerned or the mother for that matter want to reach out to each other via this forum let them. Don’t give your strong opinions that may make matters worse. Try thinking before you write so that both sides may take some comfort from the words.
My own hope is that over time daughter will, through the trials and tribulations of life come to her own conclusions and may those conclusions be the right ones and bring her the ultimate happiness that she is seeking together with the love and support of her family.
Welcome to the extraorindary, illogical (to adults) world of children / teenagers.
Firstly all cereals with the exception of shredded wheat and natural oats are full of salt and sugar but that’s neither here nor there.
Children as well as adults go through phases and making too much of an issue will create more of a problem. Yes, Dinner time is dinner time and if the 12 year old doesn’t want what is served ask him/her what they would prefer but do try to give it at the alloted time of your dinner. Try asking why they don’t want what your wife has made. Maybe they are not yet hungry. Maybe dinner is too early. Ask what the problem is. 12 years old is old enough to sit and talk with the child.
Treat the 12 year old as a budding teenager and you will find that you are quite capable of getting an acceptable response
I seldom put forth my views in reponse to a post and like to remain as my name says a Nobody.
I have, however given though to this post and am adding my 10 cents worth.
Pro Freikeit is a strong statement to make and I think it was made without thinking too deeply what this means and the consequences of it. To be pro freikeit implies being anti-religious. Anti religious is not the same as non religious and non religious is relative to the circumstances and people.
If someone on this site is non religious then surely kind words and not harsh opinions are better served. The mere fact they have logged on to this site and not some other speaks volumes.
This site has people from all walks of life and who are we to judge anyone. It is better to listen and offer warm words of encouragement than to be judemental which ultimately pushes people away.
I come across people from different backgrounds and varying degrees of frumkeit. I have learnt never to voice an opinion but to open my heart and ears and listen to the underlying message.
Someone who has gone off the derech (an expression I don’t like by the way) has not necessarily lost the plot, lost their mind, nor are they necessarily running away from something or someone and we are not to judge their reasons why, as often there is no true logical or analytical explanation. However, we do have to keep our hearts open and to be there when the time comes to pick up the pieces without question.
My heart and soul goes to those who are crying for help in one way or another and don’t even know it. I wish I could wave a magic wand and make it better for everyone but I realise that’s not possible. So instead I sit and listen and wait.
I do not think it is rude or insulting for someone to say why they are no longer frum and there is no reason they should not give a reason on this or any other forum. Maybe they need annonymous non judgmental frum people to hear them out and help them and listen to their cry. Nor has anyone the right to say they have only themselves to blame. That is a strong opinioned statement made rashly without thought.
I do not expect everyone to agree with what I have said but I would like to think everyone on this site giving their opinions has some maturity to think carefully into what they put into writing. Don’t write for the sake of it. Think first of what your words mean and how they will be taken and the consequences.
Ultimately we will all need to account to Hashem in the Beis Din Shel Ma’aloh all our words, deeds and actions – just as we’ve just said on Rosh Hashonah and Yom Kippur. How quick some people forget these holy words. How quick we brush aside what we have davened for and how quick we are to slip down the road of not so nice thoughts, words and actions.
End of drosho!
You know there are many bochurim short of cash and their parents are not in a position to help them out as much as they would like. So they get tempted in order to ease the cash flow. Many a good, honest and trusting bochur and sem girl have been tempted by the offer of ‘pocket-money’ or a trip via wherever in return for delivering a package. Not everyone is worldly enough to suspect the package could be drugs. Who thinks that mayo or peanut has something else stashed inside it?
Can you honestly say you would scrape out a jar of peanut butter or mayo just to make sure? Can you honestly say you would wash every dollar bill to make sure there are no drugs absorbed in them? Of course not!
However we must all be alert. Please continue to daven for these boys. I heard that the israelie Government are trying to negotiate that they serve their time in jail in Israel.
Whatever the outcome, draw a lesson from this,teach your kids to be alert and take note yourself
Nameless – I have heard this story before and whether it is true or not is not the point up here for debate. It is whether you have the faith to believe or ridicule. It is a fabulous story that brings me out in chills each time I hear it and reminds me of the power of Hashem and the Heilige Neshomas.
Lesschumras the point of your story was very clear and your late father believe me is deriving tremendous nachas from his futute generations here.
I would also like to point out today on erev Yom Kippur that it is not only the power of speech but also the power of the written word that we need to remember and ask teshuva for.
Please everyone double check what you write, remember the feelings of others and guard your typed word…..
G’mar Chasima Toiva
Just me – the info they are doing does not have to be negative but some people just feel uncomfortable or dirty to use another word when delving into another person’s life. Please remember this is being done to ensure that they obtain correct and detailed information – a shidduch is for life