qwerty613

To the group

I think we should understand why studying Chassidus and Kabbalah is so important to Chabad. I used to listen to Rabbi Butman when he was on the radio on Motzei Shabbosim. On numerous occasions, he said that when Moshiach comes there will be no more conventional Talmudic study, rather we’ll only learn the Kabbalistic interpretations of the Gemara. Since Lubavichers believe that we’re already in Yemos Hamoshiach they’re trying to replace Talmudic study with the study of Chassidus. Last week my son met a Lubavicher who told him, “Learning Torah without Chassidus is like ordering a steak meal and only getting served french fries.” edited

To sechel83

The problem with Chabad is not that you learn Kabbalah although it ‘s insanity that you encourage kids to do so. The problem is your attitude towards learning. Instead of looking for truth you cherry pick Chazal to prove that the Rebbe is Moshiach edited

To Menachem Shmei
Your point is well taken. I was simply addressing sechel who never tops touting Kabbalah as the answer to all questions. If Lubavichers supplement Gemara with Chassidus that’s great, but if everything is Kabbalah not so much. Btw the Rabbi I generall. Turn to when I need clarification in the Gemara is Rabbi Zajac Chabad of La Cienega who’s an i credible Talmid Chachsm and a wonderful person. As for my remark abput 6 year olds I was speaking Lav Davka to make a point.

To sechel83

“Why shouldn’t we learn Kabbala?” For many reasons. Edited But let’s not get personal. In the aftermath of the Shabbetai Tzvi debacle, an edict was established for Ashkenazic Jewry that only those who are forty, married, and fully versed in Nigleh can then take on esoteric Torah. Chabad violates this Psak so they are Chotim. And we’ve seen throughout our history the danger of Kabbalah in the wrong hands. It started with Yoshke, continued with Shabbetai Tzvi and now we have ignorant children in Crown Heights who consider themselves Mekubalim. There you have my answer. edited

To sechel83

Funny how you can’t spell “funy”. What is your point? Maybe others understand your postings but I rarely do.

To the group

The last time I checked Israel was a country. It’s a democracy with a Knesset the whole nine yards. Now we have a group of American Jews who want to tell Israel how it should be run. That’s a terrible Chutzpah. One of Rav Shach’s main complaints against the Rebbe is that he tried to “Mish Arein” into Israeli politics from Brooklyn. We’ll have a Torah-based society when Moshiach comes, but for now, we should keep our mouths and Seforim open.

To the group

Yesterday Menachem Shmei said that the Eibishter is the center of his universe. Today he reaffirms that the Rebbe is god clothed in human form. It follows then that Shmei’s Eibishter is the Rebbe.

To Menachem Shmei

The issue of “god clothed in human form” was discussed in earnest on August 15,16(but it was mentioned at other times.) Sechel83 stated that in 1962 the Rebbe declared that he was “god clothed in human form” and since Rav Moshe didn’t protest we see that he accepted it. I responded that Rav Moshe most definitely never heard such a statement. Ultimately sechel83 backed down from his statement which led you to write on August 16th 10.01 PM that you don’t understand sechel’s retraction since the Rebbe clearly said that he’s “god clothed in human form” So there you have one posting where you endorse this idea. Don’t worry I’m not going to ask you to keep your word and leave the CR. I only wrote this to demonstrate my integrity. Dr. Berger wrote in his book that 8 prominent Chabad Rabbis stated that the Rebbe was god clothed in human form. He didn’t make things up. As emerged from your thread it’s common knowledge and generally accepted in Chabad that the Rebbe is god incarnate C”V.

To Menachem Shmei
I don’t understand why you get so bent out of shape by my comments. If you think they’re the rantings of a lunatic you should ignore them. I never respond to personal attacks and when I was on VIN I was called every name in the book. As for your claim that your life revolves around the eibishter. You might want to check out your thread(question of an ignorant). Ypu spent about a month trying to convince me that the Rebbe is god clothed in human form, and I clearly answered that there’s no place in my life for AZ

To sechel83

As you stated last week, “It’s the Rebbe and not Hashem who provides sustenance to the world, so what, if anything is G-d’s function?”

To Always

Thank you so much for your latest comment, because you nailed it. Any rational person recognizes how far Chabad theology is from actual Judaism. I know that Lubavichers mean well and I certainly agree that they do much good, but I pride myself on being devoted to the truth and so I must tell it like it is. If Sechel83 can actually state that Tanya teaches that the Rebbe is the source of all blessings
does anything more need to be said?

To Moderator

Obviously, I know that a significant percentage of my posts don’t get through, but I’m okay with that because each one takes me just a minute or two to write. I greatly appreciate the fact that you allow me to express my views about Chabad. I believe that sometime, hopefully in the near future, Hashem will make His presence so manifest

Edited 

To Menachem Shmei and Sechel83

You guys have me confused. Menachem is angry because I reported that the two guys said that the Rebbe supports them but sechel says that it’s open in Tanya. So I have another one. At this past year’s Seudas Moshiach the Rabbi declared, “We have no reason to be afraid because Hashem and the Rebbe are protecting us.” So is it a 50-50 partnership or what?

To Lostspark and Menachem Shmei

Let me tell you an interesting story. Before I came to YWN I was disputing Chabad on VIN. Since Lubavichers aren’t capable of advancing substantive arguments they just resorted to name-calling and so I left that site and joined YWN. When the war started I called for a truce with Chabad. I checked out VIN for war-related updates and commented on how impressed I was that so many Jews were becoming committed to Mitzvos. One fellow, who had viciously insulted me, remarked that he was shocked that we could agree on anything. The same thing occurred a week later. I told him that if we could make peace it would give Hashem tremendous Nachas, but he didn’t respond to that overture. I fully understand that Lubavichers will not be swayed from their beliefs, but why don’t you guys get into discussions that are nondenominational? Now we’re talking about the war let’s hear your opinions. I know that there are many exceptionally bright Lubavichers.

To Menachem Shmei
What difference does that make? And let’s assume that I’m getting material for Dr. Berger’s next book So what? Attack me on the facts bit you can’t because you know that Chabad teaches itsinions that the Rebbe.runs the world.

To Menachem Shmei
If I didn’t explain this in my earlier posts I’ll explain it now. During the week I attend a Shul whose Rabbis are all Chabad. The congregants are Russian Jews who follow Chabad practices since that’s tje only Judaism they’ve ever experienced. On Shabbos I go to a Litvish shul but it’s a rather long walk. The Rabbis know that I’m against Chabad theology but I keep my mouth shut because we have a marriage of co venience. I daven each day for the Amud and I have a shul that’s near to where I live. Tbe Rabbis are brothers and they’re lovely so we get along. It’s as simple as that. Of course I take advantage of the opportunities to personally witness Chabad kefirah and I then share it with tje group. Please feel free tl ask me any question
you’d like. edited

To always

We’re in agreement. We have to do whatever we can to give Nachas to Hashem. This is a very dangerous time. Yes we know that ultimately Hashem will send Moshiach but who knows what terrible things we’ll have to face before his arrival. I alpreciate our exchanges because you clearly have ypur head on straight.

To Lostspark

No I’m not. Please explain it to me. I really never heard pf it.

To Always

I can accept that we can’t definitively explain catastrophic events, but do you agree that they are caused by our sins or do you agree with the Rebbe that things just happen and there is no rhyme or reason?

To ujm
That’s your opinion and as far as I’m concerned you have no credibility. I asked a simple question to the group, specifically the Lubavichers, “Did the Rebbe have a different view than the Friediker Rebbe vis a vis the Holocaust?” Based on what I’ve read and been told by Lubavichers the Rebbe held that the Holocaust couldn’t be explained while the Friedike Rebbe said it was a punishment from Shomoyim for the breakdown of Yiddishkeit in Europe. It’s not such a difficult question. But, as I’ve learned from the months I’ve spent on this site, Lubavichers rarely answer any question. So again, would someone please answer, rather than obfuscate the question.

To Menachem Shmei

Why not make things easy for everyone. You’ve proven your expertise regarding Chabad lore. So elucidat the last two Rebbes’ opinions vis a vis the Holocaust. Did they agree it was a punishment? Or did they agree it wasn’t a punishment? Or did they disagree? Of course you won’t answer tbe question because you know the Rebbe didn’t agree with the Friediker. But tbe answer is simple. A Chosid can’t disagree with his Rebbe unless the Chosid is god clothed in human form.

To Always

Thanks for your comments. You clearly know more about the subject than I do. When I make statements they’re empirically based. The point is that the Yetzer hora wants to lull frum Jews into thinking that they’re perfect and the problem is with the freier. It’s definitely not that simple.

To Avirah
I think that this is a case where your position and the Chabad view can both be justified. On the one hand, there are Jews who are totally entrenched in Aveiros, consider Norman Finklestein, as an example. He continues to support the Palestinians and refuses to criticize the Oct 7th massacre. On the other hand, I used to think that the Rebbe was off the wall for positing that all Jews would be redeemed by Moshiach. I think and/or hope that recent events are preparing the world for Moshiach, and I find it very encouraging that a number of Jewish celebrities(nonobservant) have stepped up on behalf of Israel. Along those lines, I paid a Shiva call a few weeks ago to the family of a Russian Jew. I worked with the father who was a lovely person, but we focused on the events in Israel. I was so impressed by their concern. One daughter asked me if I could help her get her Mezuzas checked. So yes the Pintel Yid is active in many Jews that might be thought of as Rachokim. In contrast, the psychos who continue bashing the “Zionist state” are probably irretrievably lost even if they have long-payos and only eat Cholov Yisrael.

To Sechel83

Let me change the narrative. The Rebbwe has a Sichah in which he explaons why he holds that Moshiach will redeem every Jew including Roshoim. A Lubavicher taught me the Sichah about a year ago. If you’re familiar with it then we can discuss it. If you need me to tell you where this Sicha is ask me and I’ll speak to that Lubavicher. The fact is, however, that the Rebbe did not accept the Gemara in Chelek of 1/300,000.

To sechel83

The Vilna Gaon had a brilliant insight, “The simplest answer is the truth.” Your Rebbe rejected the Gemara in Chelek. It’s possible he had a valid rwason for doing so and so he’s not definitely a Kofer,  You can’t change the facts. You cancite all the Gemaras you want but they have nothing to do with 1/300,000. Sorry, no one is buying what you’re trying to peddle. Also no mainstream Jew accepts that the Rebbe or any of the Nesiei Chabad were prophets.

edited

To always

Thanks for weighing in, it’s tiresome to go back and forth with sechel. I think it’s time to take a step back. It should be clear to all that neither side will budge the other. This thread was started to convince mainstream Jews that the Rebbe will return to life as Moshiach. Obviously, every rational Jew rejects this. My reason for writing is so that people who are impressed with Chabad, because of their wonderful outreach work will recognize that Chabad’s belief system leaves much to be desired.