Forum Replies Created
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Posts
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To DovidBT
There are no questions about Chabad’s Mitzvah performance. That’s impeccable. The problem is the belief system that they’re espousing. It’s a major concern to say the Rebbe is Moshiach, that he’s a Novi, that he runs the world and that he’s god clothed in human form.
To yedl
I apologize for calling you a liar. I would argue that you have no basis upon which to posit that Manis doesn’t mean what he said. He was interviewed by Rabbi Efren Goldberg who challenged him on his statement that Mitzvahs are optional and he refused to recant. I’m impressed that both you and DovidBT have continued the discussion. Generally those who defend Chabad offer one argument and when it’s refuted they disappear.
To the group
You’ll notice how Hakatan clammed up when I asked him to provide proof that Hitler said that he hated Jews because of the Zionists.
To the group
About a week ago yedl stated that those who blame the Rebbe for Chabad’s deviation from Torah true Judaism are “consistent.” He implied that we’re consistently wrong, but he’s correct, we are consistent, because when you tell the truth you don’t have to check your facts. In contrast, the Chabad apologists can’t get their stories straight. Yedl conceded that Manis Friedman did make these heretical statements, but then he tried to excuse it by saying he didn’t mean them. But DovidBT posited that no Chabad Rabbi ever said that Mitzvahs are optional. They really should read each other’s posts before formulating their lies. So why can’t (won’t) the Chabad shills admit the truth, that Chabad is great, but, at the same time, it’s an invalid expression of Judaism? Because it’s very difficult for people to come to grips with truth that goes against personal biases. Yedl said that he’s frum today because of Chabad. That’s wonderful. but it’s no reason not to be Modeh Al Haemes. As for AAQ, since that fool has nothing to add to the discussion. he plays the Qwerty is crazy card. That and a token (or Metrocard) won’t get you very far today.
To Hakatan
Please provide the source for Hitler yms having made such a statement.
To the group
Let me share a story. A good number of years ago I met Rabbi Eliezer Ginsburg shlita in Flatbush. He didn’t know who I was but he gave me a Sholom Aleichem. I responded, “I bought your Haggada a few years ago and I use it at my Seder every year.” He began to gush over me, “Thank you so much. This means so much to me.” Rabbi Ginsburg didn’t need my Haskama, but a kind word goes a long way. Unfortunately, most people who post on line like to insult others. They invent Heterim by arguing that it’s all anonymous. What they’ll discover is that Hashem is all knowing so why not offer encouragement? It doesn’t cost anything.
To the group
We’re dancing around the subject of Chabad Kiruv so I’d like to inject a note of reality. It’s not possible for Chabad to “make people frum” because the Chabad belief system is incompatible with our Mesorah. I’ll explain by relating an incident. About 15 years ago, I attended the Jewish National Retreat, Chabad’s annual convention. At one lecture the Rabbi(don’t recall his name) related the following: “There was a Yemenite boy in Israel about 20 years old who decided to become religious. So he went to one of those “heh, heh, heh” Kiruv Yeshivos(he meant Aish Hatorah). The first day he was there the Rabbi said, “For every Mitzvah you do you get rewarded, and for every sin you get punished. And you know what they do when they punish you? They put you in hell and burn you with coals.” He came back the next day and the Rabbi kept adding more coals to the fire. Finally, at the end of the week the kid couldn’t take it any more and he told the Rabbi, “Why don’t you go to hell?” Then the boy came to Chabad and he found love and now he’s happy. When Manis Friedman said that no Jew can be punished today, he meant it literally because this is the Chabad tradition. But this flies in the face of everything the Torah holds true. Chabad ‘studies” Pirkei Avos but that’s all based on reward and punishment so it doesn’t mean anything to them. Just as they reject Rambam’s criteria for Moshiach. So all Chabad can do is encourage people to do Mitzvos, again emphasizing that Mitzvohs are not obligatory. It also follows that since there’s no punishment for sinners Chabad sees no distinction between those who keep the Torah and those who reject it. Two weeks ago, Chabad got the nonagenarian atheist Israeli judge Aharon Barak to put on Tefilin and now they’re celebrating. Their belief system is completely out of whack. However, this doesn’t mean that they shouldn’t work on the disenfranchised. They’re able to reach people who are out of the purview of mainstream Judaism.
To the group
Jerry Seinfeld had a great joke, “Imagine that there were aliens who came down from “Yenimsvelt” and were observing humans. They’d see dogs relieving themselves and some person picking up for them. Who do you think they’d think is the master?” I thought of this when looking at this thread. If Hitler was alive and was reading it, he would be in Heaven thinking that Jews hate themselves as much as he hates us. How can someone be an Orthodox Jew and not have any basic sense of Menschlichkeit? The NK supporters hate any Jew who they perceive as a Zionist, even if that person is far removed from the Zionist credo. On the other hand, there are frum Jews who have taken it upon themselves to ridicule accepted Gedolim because they take exception with their views. There are certain basic ground rules that must be followed. I haven’t joined in this thread because it’s a Chillul Hashem to say the least.
To Lanky
I have no problem with handing out compliments. Hey, I like your idea for a thread, and that’s why I’m commenting on it. Let me share a personal experience. I write a weekly Dvar Torah which goes out to two of the shuls I attend. It’s unique because I draw Mussar lessons from rock music. When I started about a year ago a few people complimented me. Lately that’s stopped. I’m tempted to ask these people if they still like what I write, but I’m reluctant to do so, because it will look like I’m fishing for praise. Really, what I’m looking for is feedback so I can improve my writing.
To yedl
I appreciate the fact that you have responded to my posts. This shows menschlichkeit but it doesn’t mean that I’m going to give you a pass for what you wrote. You claim that Manis doesn’t mean what he said. Rabbi Miller said, “When a person says something he means it.” We don’t dismiss Mamdani who spoke of globalizing the intifada. Moreover, a few weeks ago there was a thread on VIN which discussed a certain Jewish lowlife (his name escapes me.) As you can imagine, several people pilloried this individual, but then this Lubavich woman excused him as being confused because of the long, bitter Golus. Where do you think she got that from? Not satisfied, I’ll go one better. Manis also said that Mitzvohs are optional. He challenged the definition of Mitzvah as commandment and said that the Mitzvahs we do fulfill G-d’s needs. He was challenged by Rabbi Efren Goldberg on this point, and he refused to back down. So, with all due respect, you have no basis to claim that Manis doesn’t mean the Kefirah that he spouts. By stating that I’m obsessed with Manis you’re implying that I’m unhinged. Nothing could be further from the truth. And when Shlomo Cunin says that the Rebbe runs the world, he also means it Kipshuto. It’s time for people to face the facts about Chabad. While they do much good, their belief system doesn’t jibe with our Mesorah.
To DovidBT
I’m not disagreeing with you. My point is that Chabad and its supporters constantly conflate Kiruv and getting people to do Mitzvahs. So, we’re told that they are Mikarev Yidden all over the world and it’s not true. They try to get Jews to do Mitzvohs. That’s a good thing, but they should be truthful as to their actual mission statement.
To yedl
You ask me to define the word frum, so I’ll do my best. Chazal teach that Hashem and the Torah are one. This means many things but among them is that just as Hashem is indivisible so is the Torah. One cannot say that he believes in Hashem and in the Rebbe, as many Lubavichers do, so too one cannot say that he’ll keep those Mitzvohs that are to his liking. Does that mean that every frum Jew keeps the Torah perfectly? Certainly not. But, for example, if someone spoke Loshon Hora and then he said, “I’ll have to be more careful the next time, he demonstrates that he accepts the Mitzvoh in principle and so he would still qualify as frum. As to your point that it’s Chabad’s approach to take it one Mitzvoh at a time. I have no problem with that. What I take exception to is the propaganda that Chabad is Mikarev Yidden all over the world. Putting on Tefilin on a 90-year-old Mechallel isn’t Kiruv. It’s not a bad thing to do, perhaps, in that merit he’ll get Olam Habo, but it’s deceptive to claim that this is Kiruv.
Now that I’ve answered your questions, would you care to answer mine? Rabbi Manis Friedman has stated that no Jew today can be punished because of the long, bitter Golus? Do you agree with him? He also said that Mitzvahs are optional and we keep them because G-d has needs. Do you also agree with that statement?
To yedl
I totally agree with you. I once read that the Rebbe wrote to one of his early Shluchim who was disappointed because no one had shown up at his Chabad House. The Rebbe said (I’m repeating this from memory so the quote may not be 100% accurate), “If you’re at this place for fifty years and one Jew comes there and makes a Brocho on a can of cola this makes it worth your having been there.” The point is that Chabad, contrary to what we’re told, is not a Kiruv organization it’s a Mitzvah organization. Kiruv means bringing people close to Hashem. This demands total observance. That doesn’t mean that the person changes overnight, but that’s the ultimate goal. Chabad simply wants people to do Mitzvos but there’s no formal commitment to become Shomer Shabbos, keep Kosher etc. On occasion, that happens, but it’s the exception which proves the rule. I also agree with you about the first category. It was the Rebbe who created this brand of Judaism, where Mitzvohs are optional. Now that I’ve responded to your missive, would you care to comment on Yankel Berel’s post that there is a fourth group of Chabad critics, those who see the Rebbe as a great, but flawed individual?To anon1m0us
I loved your point, but this isn’t reserved for those who post on line. People generally learn to convince themselves that their position is correct. To that end they latch on to a Chazal and reject any equally valid statements which differ with their Chazal.
To yedl
I’d like to address two of your comments. First, I agree with your assessment that today’s iteration of Chabad was crafted by the Rebbe e.g. the belief that he’s Moshiach and that he’s a Novi etc. But you dismiss those who criticize the Rebbe by arguing that we’re guilty of committing terrible sins. Throughout Jewish history there have been Talmidei Chachamim who were challenged. Shabbetai Tzvi, Doeg and Eisav immediately come to mind, so how can you just write off those who have questioned the Rebbe’s positions?
To Square_Root
You’re right that Chabad won’t listen but it isn’t Chabad that we have to reach, it’s the non-Lubavichers who defend them . I hope that proud sefaradi is going to make them think
To Square_Root
I agree with you that Gedolim are humans and sometimes they are flawed, but it’s best to be cautious rather than to call them out. On the other hand, those who attribute god-like qualities to Gedolim, e.g. ruach Hakodesh, Daas Torah etc should be called out, because they’re totally lost.
To Proud Sefaradi
A blessing on your head for your wonderful post. Hopefully, the Chabad apologists will have something to think about.
To somejew
You’re making an excellent point which I’d like to expand on. The Gemara says that we thank the one who serves the wine, but we have to remember the One who owns the wine. capcom63 is correct when he shows Hakaros Hatov to the Rebbe for his outreach efforts, but of course he must understand that the Rebbe was simply Hashem’s shliach. I would like for capcom63 to comment to see whether he recognizes this basic principle, because many Lubavichers believe that the Rebbe functions independently of Hashem.
To capcom63
I am stridently anti-Lubavich but I readily acknowledge the good that it does. Are you willing to discuss the issues that have been raised about Chabad?
To DovidBT
That’s your decision. Far be it from me to tell you what to do.
To yankel berel
Whether it’s YYA or AAQ or Shimon Katz, there’s one constant, a blanket refusal to discuss the facts. I’d like to focus on Shimon Katz, because he’s basically a Mensch. Mr. Katz acknowledges the issues with Chabad but chooses not to get into the fray because his only concern is with the Rebbe’s teachings, which he holds in the highest regard. I learn, using Artscroll Gemaras. When I’m stuck on a point, which happens on occasion, I go to this Lubavicher named Rabbi Zajac. He’s an outstanding Baal Masbir. Do I care if he believes the Rebbe is Moshiach? Not in the least. Do I care if he thinks the Rebbe was/is a Novi? Not at all. I don’t understand why Mr. Katz can’t continue learning the Rebbe’s Torah if he discovers that the things we’re saying about him are true. I grew up idolizing John Lennon. As I got older I learned that he was a lowlife. It didn’t make the slightest difference to me, because I’m only interested in his music. Would you care to comment?
To yankel berel
John Lennon had a song called “Nowhere Man”. He sang, “Doesn’t have a point of view, knows not where he’s going to, isn’t he a bit like you and me?” That sums up AAQ. He latches on to some irrelevant factoid in order to avoid honestly discussing the subject. Obviously, it’s possible for a person to have a college education and be a Yirei Shomanyim. However, if someone makes questionable statements, we might assume that they came from his secular studies. Yesterday, VIN posted that Mamdani and Mandy Patinkin “celebrated” Chanukah together. Posters hurled the expected epithets at Patinkin who decries Israel’s illegal and brutal occupation of Gaza, but one Lubavich woman wrote, “There are so many Jews who are lost and confused because of the long, bitter Golus.” I told her to keep her Manis Friedman Kefirah to herself. Chabad was trained by the Rebbe to excuse every sinner. The sinners, of course, love Chabad, but the Torah demands that we speak out against those who distort its truth.
To yankel berel
You’re wasting time dealing with AAQ.
To DovidBT
I consider myself intelligent and would like you to challenge me with one of your questions. I’m a quasi-BT. I went to yeshiva growing up, but I paid no attention. I didn’t find myself religiously until I reached my 30’s.
To E120
You made a very generic statement about Chabad beliefs. Would you care to share what you think are those beliefs? Since I Daven in a Chabad shul. I see first hand how Chabad interacts with its minions. I’ll share this story. A few years ago, the first day of Sukkos came out on a Sunday night. It rained all day Sunday and it looked like eating on a Sukkah would be a washout for the first night. As it turned out the rain let up enough so that we could eat in the Sukkah, although it was drizzling. A guy sitting next to me said, “Thank you Hashem for stopping the rain so we can have the Mitzvah of eating in the Sukkah. One of the Chabd Rabbis overheard him and said, “That wasn’t Hashem, it was the Rebbe who made the rain stop.” Immediately another fellow in the Sukkah said, “Everything we have in our lives comes from the Rebbe. “And his friend added, “We live in the shadow of the Rebbe.” Would you care to comment?
To E120
I fully agree with your post. The criticisms that I’ve leveled at Chabad speak to its distortions of Judaism, but that really isn’t a factor when it comes to dealing with the unaffiliated. I’ve never seen a Lubavicher actively try to make someone a believer in the Rebbe as a deity.
To yankel berel
I was just making the point the Rebbe took ideas from the Nazis and the Communists. In no way am I equating Chabad with either of those two monstrous regimes.
To The Group
I would say no, but I’ve gained a lot because the posters provide much useful information. My particular area of interest is Chabad and it was the Lubavichers who really educated me as to their unusual form of Judaism. I’m pretty skilled at being able to discern the truth and so I’m able to tell when people are speaking Emes. So, I’m grateful to yankel berel and several others who don’t look to bash, rather they simply offer their understanding of the facts.
To akuperma
I guess the only solution is that we all convert to Islam. Yes I’m kidding. The Gemara warned that the situation will be very frightening at the time of Moshiach’s arrival. Perhaps this is what we’re now experiencing.
To Lakewhut
I disagree with your premise. I think that all those who criticize Chabad on YWN agree that the Shlichim serve a valuable function and we encourage them in their efforts.
To Yankel Berel and mdd1
Since your comments mirror each other I I’ll address them concurrently. SQUARE _ROOT said that Lubavichers think that they’re better than all other Jews. That’s factually true. Twenty years ago I attended a YI which had a Chabad Rabbi. He’s the one who said that the Rebbe is the reason the world was created. At the time his oldest daughter was ten years old. I asked him how he’d react if she fell in love with someone from Lakewood who learns. He told me that it’s a stupid question because Chabad is the highest form of Jew. I know an ex-Lubavicher who married a mainstream Jew. She told me that in school she was constantly told that Lubavichers are better than all other Jews. The fact that Chabad accepts all Jews into their club doesn’t negate the fact that Chabad thinks of themselves as the true representative of Judaism.
Now let’s look at the Hitler factor. Rabbi Sacks said that the Rebbe studied Hitler and said that the yms wanted to kill every Jew, I’ll save every Jew. That statement itself is troublesome as it’s an indication of his hubris. The Vilna Gaon said that everything one says is a lie. I don’t believe that the Rebbe’s real reason for building his Chabad Houses was to save Jews. I think he did so to fulfill his dream of global domination as Dr. Berger said. And I believe that he studied how Hitler taught his people that they are the Master Race and he similarly taught his Chassidim that they are better than all other Jews.
I thank you for challenging my statement but I stand by it. I would love to discuss this further and if you can refute me I will certainly recant my position.
5ttttyyuuuuioiikkkkkkllllllllllllllkkio9
To Yankel Berel
I want to expand on your last post. Rabbi Chaim Miller wrote a respected translation of the Tanya. In the introduction he talks about the fighting between Chassidim and Misnagdim. He quoted the Baal Hatanya as saying that because of the vitriol of the Gaon, the blood of Chassidim flowed like water. There are several problems with that statement. First,cthe Gaon was 52 at the time and the undisputed Gadol Hador. The Alter Rebbe was only 27. He would never dare attack such a giant. Second, no Jews were actually killed during that contretemps. Third, if Chassidim would have been killed you can be sure that Misnagdim would have also died. Jews don’t turn the other cheek. I mentioned these points to my Rav, Rabbi Moshe Plutchok and he told me about the Kherson forgeries. Lubavichers forged letters and attributed them to the Baal Hatanya. This was to keep the war going. As an example when the Baal Hatanya came out of prison he ended up in the home of a Misnagid named Notkin. He said that the few hours he spent with Notkin were worse than the entire time he was imprisoned. Number one, that’s ridiculous. Second, it’s Loshon Hora and the Baal Hatanya would never intentionally sin. I’m amazed that Shimon Katz, who’s a very good Jew supports a religion of liars.
To yedl
Your point is valid. I was just responding to the Lubavicher on vin who said that all real Yidden learn Chabad Chassidus. But of course you’re right.
To Right Jew
You are 100 percent correct. Chabad likes to play the “it’s only a few crazies ” card but none of the leaders has ever challenged any of their insanities.
To lakewhut
I don’t understand your point. I never said anything about Chabad in Israel.
To SQUARE_ROOT
I’d like to address your last three points. First, the Shulchan Aruch of the Baal Hatanya is totally Kosher and shouldn’t be challenged. Second, you’re absolutely right that Lubavichers are taught that they are the “Master Race of Judaism.” As Rabbi Sacks ZTL said, “The Rebbe studied Hitler and said that he would save every Jew to counter what that maniac did.” That’s not the only thing that Schneersohn learned from Hitler. He also learned how to take control of the minds of all his Chassidim. Finally, you said that Chabad has the hidden agenda to convert real Jews to their false religion. It’s not a hidden agenda. On Monday night Chabad held a major farbrengin in Lakewood in honor of Yud Tes Kislev. They’re crazy enough to think that they can take control of that bastion of Torah because they think the Rebbe runs the world. Tonight they’re staging another Yud Tes celebration in the Altneu Synagogue on the Upper East Side. The Baal Tefillah of the shul is Chabad so he probably arranged it. They play the “we accept every Jew” card and people think their religion is a valid representation of Judaism.
To the group
Several years ago, Dovid Lichtenstein interviewed a Talmid of Rav Shach and asked him what bothered the Gadol Hador about the Rebbe. This Rabbi answered that it was two things. First, he was annoyed by the proliferation of Chabad holidays which indicated the formation of a new religion. Second, Rav Shach didn’t appreciate the Rebbe butting into Israeli politics. He felt, correctly, that he was the Gadol in Israel and the Rebbe had no right to get involved. Of course, the Rebbe felt that he was Nosi of Israel from the time he was three years old. Yesterday, a thread began on VIN announcing that there was a Yud Tes Kislev event in Lakewood. One fellow commented, “All real Yidden learn Chabad Chassidus.” No all real Yidden learn Gemara. If they have time in the day, they can also learn Chassidus, but not necessarily the Chabad variety. Rabbi Shmuel Butman used to have a radio program on Motzei Shabbos. He would routinely say, “When Moshiach comes there will be no more Shnayim Ochzin Bitalis.” Yes, there will be Shnayim Ochzin Bitalis, but only the Kabbalistic interpretations of the Gemara.” He would continue, “For two thousand years those Rosh Yeshivas have had their fun, but their time is coming to an end.” I don’t believe that all Lubavichers have this attitude, but it’s not uncommon. The Gemara is forever and it’s the Ikkar of Torah study.
To Shimon Katz
While I happen to agree with the things that Yankel Berel said about the Rebbe, I stayed away from that discussion because I knew it would upset you. If you want to believe that the Rebbe was a Tzaddik, please feel free to do so. I owe you a tremendous debt of Hakaros Hatov for calling out YYA, and I don’t forget the kindnesses that are done for me. Thank you again and please don’t leave the thread.
To yedl
Thanks for posting the excerpt from that letter. YYA continues to allege that I’m not reliable, but I don’t lie. I take my name of Yaakov very seriously.
To yankel berel
I’ll quote my dear mother A’H. Ein Hartz felt vi di anderer. You’ve supported me so many times on YWN. I consider you a friend even though we don’t know each other.
Square_Root
Your last post was wonderful. Far more frum Jews are going lost than BT’s are being produced so this calls into question whether Kiruv is worth all the money and effort. I don’t think it is. There’s one question that can be asked, “Why pick on Chabad? I don’t think that any of the other mainstream Kiruv organizations have been successful in stemming the tide of assimilation.” The answer to that question is that the Rebbe guaranteed that he was going to save every Jew, while the other organizations never made such ridiculous assertions.
To the group
I’m going to take a surprising position and support Eval. In 1972 (I think), Rabbi Kahane spoke at the Bialystoker Shul on the LES. He railed into those who don’t make Aliyah. I was a teenager at the time. I felt he was right, but I didn’t want to go because I felt that I could have an easier and “better’ life in America. In retrospect, I think I was wrong. The Gemara says, “Rachmana Liba Boi.” Hashem wants our hearts. The fact that so many Jews who could have gone to Israel haven’t done so is not a good thing. I think we should apologize to Hashem if we’re in that group. I’ll just add one point, “For all of us who are now living in Chutz Laaretz, how many will leave our cushy lives and go to Israel when Moshiach comes?” Let’s discuss this point. Eval opened a very important subject.
To Yaakov Yosef A
Apparently, Shimon’s Mussar got to you and your last post was written in a civilized manner and so I’ll respond in kind. Let me state, up front, that the YWN Coffee Room isn’t a court of law nor a Bes Din and so my only obligation, as a Torah Jew, is to speak the truth. Whether you choose to accept what I say doesn’t concern me. With that preamble I’ll address your points. You say that you’ve never seen in Chabad seforim the story of the Rebbe deciding that he was Moshiach after a dream he had when he was three years old. That may be so, but this is what that Rabbi told me and he’s part of a very Chashuv Chabad family. I’ll add another point that this Rabbi told me. The Rebbe had an ongoing correspondence with Zalman Shazar, a Lubavicher who became President of Israel. In one letter, Mr. Shazar asked the Rebbe why he doesn’t address him as Nasi Yisroel, so the Rebbe told him it’s because he had a dream as a child of who the real Nasi is and so he can’t give anyone else that title. The implication is obvious. Mow do I think the Rebbe was a Novi? Obviously not. But I know that the Chazakah in CH is that he was. How then would you explain why Chabad came to that insane conclusion? As for Manis Friedman. A Godol Biyisrael named Rav Aharon Feldman said he’s a Kofer and presented the video in which Manis states that a Jew can do any sin he wants and nothing will happen to him. Manis also said that today Mizvahs are optional. Rabbi Efren Goldberg told him that this is Kefirah and Manis laughed in his face. If you want to know what Manis meant, then you can call him. I know a Kofer when I see one.
To Shimon Katz
Let me say, at the outset, that I like you and I like your style. You’re the first person to call out YYA. He’s a totally despicable liar. He accused (Dec 4th) me of stating that the Rebbe committed horrible crimes for the basest of motives. Absolute sheker. What I said is that the Rebbe’s goal in establishing Chabad houses was not Kiruv (that might be a side benefit) rather it’s to conquer the world. Why do I say that? Because Dr. Berger told me this about 10 years ago and I trust him. I have more proof, but my main issue is with the Kofer Manis Friedman, who said that any Jew can do any sin and nothing will happen to him and that Mitzvahs are optional. I gave you the site, it’s up to you to view it, it’s all there. Now I’ll address your point. I call Chabad a different religion because their emphasis is on the Rebbe and not on Hashem. That’s why Rabbi Cunin stated that it’s the Rebbe and not Hashem who runs the world. As far as my Davening in a Chabad shul. As I told YYA, it’s not a Chabad shul. There are three Chabad brothers who run the shul but only a few of the congregants are Chabad. I’ve been friends with these Rabbis for twenty years and they are definitely not idolaters although they do believe the Rebbe is Moshiach and that he’s a Novi. If you need further clarification of my position, I’ll be happy to provide it. As to your other point, by no means do I believe that Lubavichers act as missionaries. I’ve been to Chabad houses at various locations, and I was treated beautifully. So no I don’t think that when one accepts Chabad hospitality it comes with strings attached. Again, I’ve been studying Chabad for about 25 years so my positions are very clear cut. Since you’re a Mensch and you’re not trying to catch me in a lie like that lowlife, I will gladly answer your questions. I have nothing to hide. The only thing wrong with Chabad is Schneersohn, but they won’t give up on him because they were taught that he is their world. As one fellow in my shul said, “We live in the shadow of the Rebbe.” Finally, I harbor no delusions about changing your mind. I simply want the opportunity to present my proofs without being unmercifully and unfairly attacked and insulted for telling the truth.
To Yankel Berel
Let’s take a closer look at YYA’s latest post. He asked, “What is Shimon Katz being Mechadesh that I wasn’t?” With this YYA is saying that he endorses the positions of Shimon Katz. This means that he agrees that that the Rebbe isn’t Moshiach or a Novi. Of course, now that YYA has joined the team the insults will end. Let’s develop the subject of the Rebbe being Moshiach. According to actual Jews, the person who will be Moshiach will be the one who meets the criteria set forth by Rambam. Chabad follows a different system. They hold that G-d told the Rebbe that he’s Moshiach. I’ll explain. I asked the Rabbi of the Chabad shul I attend when this Moshiach business started and he told me, “When the Rebbe took over in 1951, he announced he’s Moshiach.” Then I asked him why Chabad thinks the Rebbe is a Novi and he told me that when the Rebbe was three years old, he had a dream in which Hashem told him he’s a Novi and he had a vision of himself sitting on a throne with millions of people bowing down to him. Now that YYA has joined the fold of real Jews he can add some clarifying points. Isn’t it great to work together?
To 25TQ9lm5B
So, it was the Rebbe himself who made that guarantee, and since he’s a Novi it obviously came true. So, explain how Menachem Mendel Litzan was able to kill himself, explain the murder of Rabbi Kogan and the Mumbai massacres. The answer is simple; the Rebbe wasn’t a Novi and so his promises, including that he’s Moshiach and he will save every Jew, mean absolutely nothing.
To Shimon Katz
Go to Musings of a Litvish Yid May 25, 2025 and you’ll see the video in which Rabbi Feldman calls Manis a Kofer for stating that no Jew today can be punished no matter what sin he commits. As for Friedman’s statement that Mitzvahs are optional. AFAIK that’s a Youtube video when he was interviewed and challenged by Rabbi Efren Goldberg. I can assure you that I don’t make things up. That’s why the “sicko’phant is so afraid of me, it’s because he knows I’m telling the truth. I see that you’re somewhat interested in the truth and so I laud you. One point for you to consider, “Why hasn’t the Chabad leadership called out the crazies?” The answer is simple, “Shtikah Kihodaah.” The fact that there’s a treasure trove of great Torah from Chabad doesn’t change the facts that YB and I are presenting. If you enjoy the Rebbe’s Torah, by all means study it. And people who like Chabad should avail themselves of Chabad hospitality but make no mistake their religion is not Judaism.
To yankel berel
I’ll just add one point. Until Gimmel Tammuz it was universally agreed in CH that Moshiach can’t come from the dead. When the Rebbe died, they did a 180 and followed the Gemara which said that Moshiach can come from the dead. However, a significant percentage of Lubavichers never changed their original view and so they maintain that the Rebbe never died just like “Yaakov Lo Mes.” Shakespeare wrote, “Vanity thy name is woman.” “Insanity thy name is Chabad.”
To YYA
When you were asked a question, by YB non-political and yours truly, you adamantly refused to answer, but I have no problem responding to your query. At no time did I ever say that “every” Lubavicher is an idolater and a Kofer. The Chabad Rabbis in the shul I attend, (the congregants, with a few exceptions,) aren’t Chabad are definitely not idolaters or Kofrim. You know, for someone who writes well, you’re kind of stupid. Checkmate dude.
To Shimon Katz
YYA, the Chabad “sicko”phant, gave you another warning, that you shouldn’t accept any “Loshon Hora” from me about Manis the Kofer. I assume you saw the video in which Manis stated that no Jew, no matter what sin he commits can be punished today. He thus gave a blanket Heter for any Jew to violate Shabbos, eat pork on Yom Kippur etc. In addition, YYA left out a critical point, “I’m not the one who declared Manis a Kofer, that was Rabbi Aharon Feldman, a recognized Gadol who said it. (that’s in the video) YYA said that he isn’t interested in Rabbi Feldman’s opinion. This makes sense given how slavishly the “sicko’phant defends Chabad. Rabbi Feldman has consistently called out Chabad. And he knows whereof he speaks.
To Shimon Katz
I’d like to thank you for ignoring YYA’s warning and responding to my post. You’re a mensch, unlike that Chabad “sicko”phant. Reading your post, I don’t think we’re that far apart. You agree that there are Lubavichers who think the Rebbe is “god clothed in human form.” And you agree that there are Lubavichers who believe that the Rebbe is a full-fledged Novi i.e. G-d spoke to him. Where we disagree is that you think that such Lubavichers not the norm or even represent a small percentage, rather they’re just a handful of crazies. From my perspective the crazies are quite common. The other point of contention is that you want to dismiss the Kofer Manis Friedman as a YouTube Rabbi. That’s disingenuous on your part. He’s perhaps the most influential Chabad Rabbi in the world, or at least in the top five. Just consider this. When the Rebbe died, mainstream Jews were told that the belief in the Rebbe being Moshiach was limited to the crazy Meshichists. That was a lie from the start. Chabad tailors its propaganda for the people it’s trying to fool. In any case, I thank you for your post and if you’d like to continue the discussion the ball is in your court. I have plenty of anecdotal evidence to prove my contentions.
To Shimon Katz
You’re a popular person. The last three posts all directed their comments to you. So the ball is now in your hands. Will you accept what Yankel berel and I said or will you follow the primordial snake who goes by Yaakov Yosef A? As you see, YB and I are in lockstep and there are several other posters who also agree with us on all these points. What about YYA? He comes to warn you about how evil I am. You’ve read my posts. Do I sound like a “raging bull”? Of course not. As I’ve stated on numerous occasions, I’ve been a dentist for forty years (still practicing) and I write a weekly Dvar Torah over the internet which has many fans including a number of great Rabbonim. It’s ludicrous to suggest that I’m dangerous. But YYA is a Chabad shill and he’s deathly afraid that people like you will come around to our side. Several months ago the question about Chabad’s dubious belief system came up in a different thread. YYA claimed that he could answer all the challenges against Chabad but he chose not to because it would lead to Bizui Talmidei Chachomim. In this thread he again said that he can answer the challenges but he doesn’t want to get into a discussion with a crazy hater like me. I declared in a post that I would stay out of the discussion if he’d answer the questions, but he ignored my offer. When I call YYA a liar it’s on merit. When he calls me a deranged hater, he’s just hoping to fool people like you. Now let me add two points. Recognizing that the Chabad belief system is flawed doesn’t mean that one has to reject Chabad. I attend a Chabad shul six days a week(Shabbos and Yom Tov are the exceptions). I get along beautifully with the Chabad Rabbis I know with one exception. Second, you challenged my contention that Manis Friedman said that Mitzvahs are optional because Chabad has Mitzvah campaigns. I didn’t say that Chabad rejects the term Mitzvah, rather Manis doesn’t accept that a Mitzvah, is a commandment of Hashem. He holds, instead, that the Mitzvahs are good deeds and so they’re optional. Rabbi Efren Goldberg from Boca interviewed Manis and challenged him, but he doubled down and repeated that Mitzvohs are optional. Again, as opposed to YYA, YB and I offer facts and sources that are easy to find. Now it’s up to you to determine if you want to follow the truth or that snake in the grass.
To Shimon Katz
I will be most happy to respond to your post. Let’s consider point number four. This opinion has been expressed by Rabbi Manis Friedman. He believes that Mitzvahs are optional. He rejects calling them commandments. In his “opinion” G-d has “needs” and when we perform His Mitzvahs, we are fulfilling those needs, but we’re under no obligation to do so. He further stated that no Jew today, no matter what sin he commits can be punished, because of the long, bitter exile. I personally saw the videos in which he made those claims. To see it yourself look up Rav Aharon Feldman calls Manis Friedman a Kofer. Obviously, he was not censured by Chabad and so we can assume that they agree with him. As for the Rebbe being a deity. Dr. Berger, in his book, stated that 8 senior Rabbis from Chabad’s flagship Yeshiva, Oholei Torah, declared that the Rebbe is “god clothed in human form.” To what extent this is accepted in CH I can’t say, but it’s out there. One Lubavicher on YWN wrote to me, “In 1962 the Rebbe announced that he’s “god clothed in human form.” Rav Moshe didn’t protest and so we see that he accepted it. I responded that no one on the LES ever heard such insanity so why would Rav Moshe say anything. More on this point. There is a YouTube video of Rabbi Shlomo Cunin, who is chief Chabad Rabbi of California, stating that the Rebbe runs the world and “HE” will take us out of Galus. The date of the video is Dec 10, 2008. Finally. the question of the Rebbe being a Novi. This is universally accepted by Chabad. I will share what is being disseminated by Chabad to unwitting Russian Jews. Usually, these cards are in Russian, but this one was in English. “Baruch Hashem. We must publicize to all people of the generation that we have merited that G-d Almighty has chosen and appointed a man, a person possessing free choice… to be your judges and your advisors as well as the prophet of the generation. This includes publicizing the main prophecy the prophecy of immediately to redemption and at this very moment, behold this one (Moshiach) comes.” Obviously, the Rebbe’s picture is on the card and at the bottom we get the Yechi invocation. There’s a reason that YYA is fighting so hard to suppress these facts. He’s their shill and he’s desperately afraid that this information will come out. But he knows it’s all true. That’s why I call him a liar. Just like someone who has testimony and refuses to testify is called a sinner. Please feel free to ask me or the others like Yankel Berel any questions you might have. Everything is out there. We have no reason to attack Chabad. In fact, we don’t attack them. We praise the good things they do, but there’s an idolatrous element to their religious beliefs and it must be called out. I would ask you one question, “Do you have any interactions with Chabad? I live in a community where there are about 30 Chabad Rabbis, so I have extensive dealings with them. Plus, I have their reading materials, (unfortunately most are in Russian) but enough are in English for me to get a full picture of their religion. Watch how YYA tries to counter what I’ve written. He’s more fanatic in his defense of Chabad than the Lubavichers. Sadly, for him, if he says I’m lying there are plenty of others on YWN who will confirm whatever I’ve said. As YYA noted, my name is Yaakov, but unlike that Yaakov I don’t lie.
To chaim_baruch
Beautifully said and I have nothing to add.
To ujm
Please explain how they misguide others.
To Shimon Katz
Your point is well taken. We all agree that Chabad does, or at least tries to do, much good. The term “low benefit kiruv” was an unfortunate choice.
To yankel berel
As is often the case, you hit the nail on its head. No one is challenging the fact that Chabad serves a valuable function(s). We’re just calling into question its dubious religious beliefs. Liars like YYA will only look at the former, because he can’t, as the expression goes, “handle the truth.”
To the group
YYA sinks to a new low by suggesting a commonality between those who criticize Chabad and those who support Neturei Karta. The differences should be manifest, but YYA is a talented wordsmith, and he may have fooled some into sharing his point of view, so let me debunk his theory. NK posits that Zionism is the root of all evil. Fine, but they never advance any cogent arguments to that point. They simply regurgitate this nonsensical mantra. In contrast, critics of Chabad clearly articulate our issues; the belief that the Rebbe is a deity, that he was a Novi, that he is Moshiach, that the Torah laws are no longer obligatory. The second major divide is that Neturei Karta calls for the elimination of the State of Israel. Having been labeled the “most strident anti-Lubavicher”, I can categorically state that I wish no harm to Chabad. In fact, I encourage all their activities and would like to see them grow exponentially. My problem is with Chabad theology which is not a valid representation of Judaism. Unlike the coward YYA who hides in his bunker when challenged I will respond to any challenges against my position.