qwerty613

To coffee addict

“I don’t think yeshivish people make it a point to earn as much money as possible”

Sure and when a Ruby Schron property triples in value he refuses to take the money because he’s yeshivish and doesn’t need it. Dude what planet do you live on? There are super rich yeshivish Yidden who wear black hats and white shirts and you can be sure they stay at the finest hotels.

To the group

The other day I asked Rabbi Menachem Shmei a seemingly innocuous question, “What’s your opinion of the flyers being posted throughout the city which declare that the Rebbe is Moshiach?” Rabbi Shmei ignored the question and I’ll offer an explanation for his inaction. The fellow responsible for these flyers is a twenty year old kid who knows nothing about Nigleh or Nistar but he is certain that the Rebbe is Moshiach. And why does he believe this? Because it’s been drummed into his head since he started breathing. And this is why every Lubavicher believes he’s Moshiach, despite the fact that this proposal directly contradicts the Rambam.

To mdd1

No, sechel83 got it right, he made sure to capitalize Rebbe. By the way, it wouldn’t kill you to apologize for misrepresenting what I said. I made it clear that it was my Rov and not me who said that a Rabbi has no right to give his congregants Mussar. If you’re not able to admit you were wrong in an anonymous chat group, you certainly wouldn’t accept Mussar from your Rabbeim or anyone else. The sad truth is that when most people hear Mussar they think it applies to everyone but themselves.

To YWN

I really appreciate your printing my stuff. I know that I come from a very different perspective than the standard Yeshiva voices, but you allow me to express myself. I’ve made a concerted effort to tone down my rhetoric because I don’t like being edited.

To Coffee addict

If watching TV is equal to eating in Burger King why don’t the Gedolim ban Pesach vacations? All the 5 star hotels have TV’s in every room.

To the group

I decided to investigate the question about owning and/or watching TV. To that end I asked Rav Google if there’s any Halachic problem associated with TV watching. The only response was from a Rabbi Aron Moss who is a Chabad Rabbi in Sydney Australia. He didn’t mention any prohibition. He simply said that he prefers to avoid the box. There were about fifty follow up comments and none of them mentioned any Halachic issues. I still plan to ask my Rov tonight, but my strong suspicion is that it’s not Halachically prohibited rather it’s against proper Hashgofoh. As to why I don’t follow the prevailing Hashgofoh, that’s my choice, but don’t tell me it’s like eating a cheeseburger. Again, I will speak to my Rov tonight and ask him and then report to the participants.

To Rabbi Menachem Shmei

Now that we’ve hopefully demonstrated that we can be civil to each other let’s see if we can converse. In your original posting, you said that you want to engage with observant Jews. What you’ve obviously learned is that going from the Mechallels to Torah Jews is an enormous jump because the former know zilch about Judaism. The Rebbe famously said that every Jew is a descendant of the Avos. That’s true and so each Jew has the potential for greatness. I’ll speak for myself. Those who know me now and 35 years ago are amazed by the transformation. So I believe in Kiruv and I embrace the Rebbe’s vision of spreading the light of Torah throughout the world. This said Judaism is at all times, rational, and therefore there are statements from Chabad which cannot be justified, starting with the assertion that the Rebbe “IS” Moshiach. I he was anointed King of the world it would not be a secret known only to a group that professes to have mastered the esoteric. As for the belief in Chabad circles that Judaism is not rational because it’s Kabbalah based, well this defies Rambam’s essential premise. If you guys are rejecting Rambam no problem, but then stop learning his works if you deny them.

To Rabbi Menachem Shmei

I have good news for the thread. Bli Neder this will be the last time I respond to any of the remarks you direct at me. Let me explain this decision. I am a person of truth. To that point, I will be meeting with my Rov tomorrow. If he tells me that it’s Asur to have a TV then it goes and I will share this with the group. What I find offensive about you in particular is that you lie in order to demonize me to the others. The Torah says Midvar Sheker Tirchok but those words mean nothing to you. Let me give two examples. Last week I said that few in this thread can match my logical ability or my love of truth. In order to convince the participants that I’m egotistical you quoted me as saying, “Few can match my logic and love of truth.” intentionally taking out, “in this thread.” You did it again later in the week when I admitted to the posters that I’m ignorant with regard to learning having started relatively late in life. You twisted what I said to read, “You admit you’re ignorant about Lubavitch” and then you added that despite my knowing nothing about them I nevertheless attack them. How insecure and pathetic that you have to lie to try to win a meaningless argument with me? As for your comment that I’m wrong about ujm being Chabad. That’s possible. But Rav Moshe and Rabbi Miller were also wrong about Chabad so I guess I’m in good company. LOL and checkmate.

To Avira
I hope you realize how desperate the Lubavichers are. Before I joined you and Neville were the leaders against Chabad.Now Rabb Menachem wants to win you over because he knows he can’t deal with me.

sir, this isn’t color war

To Rabbi Menachem

Instead of getting Haskamah from Avira why don’t you go the source? I didn’t say that I’m ignorant about Chabad I said that I’m ignorant in general as compared to many of the participants including you. You guys are far more learned than I am. You study Sefarim that I never even heard of. This is what I admitted, but this does not, in any way, detract from my ability to lash out at Chabad. edited

To ujm (Joseph)

I read your attachment and was quite surprised. Apparently, you believe that there will be a time when every Jew has to give Din V’Cheshbon. Now that’s interesting because the Chabad Rabbi of the Shul I attend said that according to the Rebbe, no one will be punished if they sin and there’s no such thing as Gehinnom. But let’s say you’re right. How will you face Hashem when He asks you if you believed that the Rebbe was “G-d clothed in human form?” And if you answer no, He’ll then ask you why you didn’t protest against your landsmen who do? The Gemara in Shabbos says that one who fails to protest against evil is given the same punishment as the sinner. Joseph, you focus on the fact that I watch an hour of TV a day, but you ignore the fact that I learn seven hours a day. You Lubavichers can try all you want to make me look bad, but it ain’t gonna work. Elul’s coming, wake up and renounce your false religion. We’ll gladly welcome you into the fold.

To the group(mainly the Yeshivish)

Since I’ve revealed some personal information let me share some more. Rabbi Dr. Mechel Schiffenbauer ZTL and I are(were) cousins. His father and my paternal grandmother were siblings. I can attest that Mechel was far greater than what you’ve been told in the FJJ. Every Erev Shabbos for years he’d call me(my wife usually answered, she was crazy about him). Do you know why he called, I mean we didn’t have that much in common. He told me numerous times. It’s because I was his only observant relative. Our families came to these shores in 1912 and basically everyone fell victim to the American spiritual Holocaust. On my mother’s side, I do have a fantastic modern Orthodox cousin. Interestingly Mechel connected with him a few years before Covid took him because one of my cousin’s daughters was in Mechel’s class(he was a Biology professor). The point is that Mechel, myself, and my cousin represent three different expressions of Orthodoxy, but we respect and love each other because we all believe in Hashem, Torah, and Mitzvos. Is that so difficult for people in the Yeshiva world to understand? Edited Again I rail against Chabad because they only believe in Torah and Mitzvos.

To Avira
I would be interested in your sources regarding TV, but if it’s just Rabbi Miller’s opinion that TV is considered Sefarim Chitzonim that’s just his view and my Rabbonim totally rejected it. I’m glad that we’re able to engage in a civil discourse despite our differences.

To Avira

I don’t consider myself yeshivish and therefore I believe I’m more open minded than you. I respect the entire spectrum of Orthodoxy except of course, Chabad, which is clearly not a legitimate expression of Judaism. There’s a shul on the Lower East Side which is pretty far left,(though it’s officially Orthodox) and I go there occasionally because I like the Rabbi. My Feinstein connections question my attendance but I tell them that I’m a grownup and I can decide for myself what’s right or not. As you can see my attitude doesn’t shtim with someone like Rabbi Miller who felt that his congregants should blindly follow his every word. Just for the record, I’m quite Makpid on every Mitzvah particularly learning, but, and don’t throw me out of the thread for this, I watch some TV. Let me quote my Rav, “A Rabbi is nothing more than a role model and he has no right to tell his congregants what to do. This may not be your way but it works for me.

To Avirah

I was told unequivocally that the Halacha states that anyone killed because they’re Jewish goes to Olam Habo. I asked this question after the Pittsburgh shootings. Frankly, Rabbi Miller’s opinion makes more sense to me but this is what I was told, and the people I asked were heavy hitters. I readily admit that I’m not a scholar but I do have a logical mind and a strong sense of truth and I check my opinions with unimpeachable sources. I’ll give you another example. Rabbi Miller said no turkey on Thanksgiving, but Rav Moshe permitted it. Who do you think I, as a Lower East Sider follow?

To Avira

Rabbi Miller said he wasn’t a Gadol and I agree with him. Look it’s really a meaningless argument. I don’t think that there is a definable way of judging who is and who isn’t a Godol. As I see it, it’s completely subjective. I would appreciate it if someone in the thread would explain how one attains the status of a Godol BYisrael. By the way, if you want to call Rabbi Miller a Gadol that’s certainly your right, but my Rabbonim do not think of him that way.

To Rabbi Menachem Shmei

By all means I’ll call you Rabbi. Why not? If you’re lying then you’ll have something else to explain to Hashem beside the fact that you insulted me and refused to apologize.

To Avira

So it seems that you consider yourself qualified to decide which Jews who were murdered, were killed Al Kiddush Hashem and which were not. Do you agree that all 6,000,000 million Jews who were slaughtered, died Al Kiddush Hashem or was it only the Shomrei Torah U’Mitzvos? I spoke to Poskim on this question when the Jews in Pittsburgh were killed and I was told unequivocally that any Jew who is killed because he’s identified as a Jew dies Al Kiddush Hashem and is guaranteed an immediate ticket to Gan Eden. As an interesting aside, that Posek told me that Rabbi Miller wouldn’t agree with this Psak. I understand that you’re a follower of Rabbi Miller but he was not a Posek and he was not a Godol, but he was definitely a great man and a great Marbitz Torah. His opinions, however, don’t stand up against the consensus of Poskim.

To Menachem Shmei

“The title for someone killed Al Kiddush Hashem is HY”D as I wrote not rabbi” So you would refer to R Elchonon Wasserman ZTL as HY’D without the honorific because the Nazis killed him? Look you made a mistake. It’s not the end of the world. But the problem is that your Gaavah won’t allow you to admit it. By the way you also owe me an apology for calling me arrogant and ignorant. And what do you think about the “FACT” that the Feinsteins, as currently constituted, don’t like Chabad? Curious to see how you’ll try to squirm out of that one.

To Avira

I’m shocked by your statement. I am by no means a follower of Rabbi Kahane but he died Al Kiddush Hashem and you have the temerity to throw dirt on his grave. Now you and n0mesorah both have some serious Tshuvah to do. The good news is that we’re almost in Elul so it’s perfect timing.

To Menachem Shmei

Apparently, you’re taking a shot at me because I admitted I’m not a Talmid Chacham. Despite what you’d like to believe that doesn’t Passul me for this thread. One of the points you keep repeating is that Rav Moshe thought well of the Rebbe. I won’t challenge that, however, I know, as a fact, that this is no longer the opinion of the Feinsteins. As I mentioned, I’m a doctor and one of Rav Moshe’s grandsons is a patient, and he is completely in lockstep with my view. And he’s not the only member of the family who feels this way, but I’m not at liberty to give any more details. Now you’ll ask, how could they argue on Rav Moshe? The answer is simple. A Godol is not a “god”ol. Anyone can challenge his views, yes even family members. I’ll give a second proof of this. Rabbi J.B. Soloveitchik was good friends with the Rebbe, but that didn’t stop Rav Hershel Schachter, his Talmid Muvhak, from publicly stating that many Lubavichers daven to the Rebbe instead of Hashem and calling this idolatry.

To Menachem Shmei

Let me explain my situation. I daven in a Chabad shul in my neighborhood. I listen to the Rabbi’s speeches and read the materials he brings in. From these sources I’ve learned about Chabad and the Rebbe. In a similar vein, for many years I attended a yeshiva run by Rabbi Avigdor Miller’s Talmud Muvhak. From the Rosh Yeshiva I learned Rabbi Miller’s shitas. In addition, I grew up on the Lower East Side and developed lifelong friendships with the Feinstein families. Finally, despite going to Yeshiva, I wasn’t fully frum until I turned 30 and I didn’t begin seriously learning until I was fifty. Long story short, I don’t have the time nor the ability to study all the available sources firsthand as I’m a practicing doctor and I learn Gemara about 7 hours a day. I agree that it’s best to study original sources but I’m doing the best I can to arrive at the truth. As for your comment that I theorized the Rebbe’s opinion. That’s incorrect. What I said is what I heard in shul, and I trust that the Rabbi accurately reported what the Rebbe said because he was reading one of the Rebbe’s letters. If I misrepresent any of the Rebbe’s views, by all means correct me. I’ll then check it out to verify what you said. I readily admit that most of the people in the thread have more Torah knowledge than I, but few can match my logic and love of truth.

To Menachem Shmei

I stand corrected. So we see, according to Menachem, even Crown Heights accepted Rav Moshe as the Posek Hador. So now we return to my basic point. If Chabad wanted to establish the Rebbe as a Novi why wouldn’t they seek out Rav Moshe’s Haskomah? The answer is simple because there was never any question of the Rebbe being a Novi while he was alive. This is nothing but an invention of his followers. What I believe the Rebbe did say, because I heard this from a Lubavicher, is that every Nasi Chabad had Ruach Hakodesh. But Ruach Hakodesh is NOT nevuah. As Avira correctly stated, Nevuah begins with “Koh Amar Hashem” or some equivalent expression that G-d spoke to the person. I can’t believe that we’re spending so much time arguing about such a simple and basic principle. That’s what happens when the other side loses its capacity for rational thought.

To Menachem Shmei

Did n0mesorah ask you for help in dealing with me? I made him an offer. If he wants me to answer his challenge he has to do public Tshuvah for insulting Rav Moshe. It’s surprising that you’re defending him since he agrees with normative Judaism that Rav Moshe was much greater than the Rebbe.

To n0mesorah

When you admit that what you wrote about Rav Moshe was slanderous and you publicly apologize, I’ll respond to your challenges. You don’t have to remind me that I haven’t answered. It’s totally intentional and it’s because you’ve behaved like a boor.

To n0mesorah
You’re denying that you insulted Rav Moshe? You stated that there was a global campaign to discredit him. Your intention was to make it seem as if all the Rabbis in the world were renouncing him. Anyone reading that post would come to that conclusion. Now you clarify your statement. Sure there were Poskim who disagreed with his position but everyone accepted him as the Gadol Hador. Now the reason you implied otherwise is because I said that he could have tested the Rebbe as a Novi and you needed to find some way to reject that idea. Have you no shame? That’s a rhetorical question?

Let’s take a step back. What we can discern from this and similar threads is that Lubavichers believe that the Rebbe is Moshiach and that he is(was) a Novi. Not long ago England crowned a new king. The event was witnessed by hundreds of millions throughout the world. Chabad is telling us that the Rebbe was anointed Moshiach, essentially making him king of the entire world, but no one knows about it. There’s not even a YouTube clip. And as for his being a Novi, one of the posters said this was proven during the 6 Day War. At that time Rav Moshe was the unquestioned Gadol Hador. All that was needed was for the two to meet and Rav Moshe would have tested him. As Avira correctly stated, Nevuah is definable, it’s not voodoo. Chabad wants us to trust them at their word. No chance. We are a stiffnecked people. Finally, how ridiculous is it to suggest that the Rebbe understood Pshatim in the Gemara that no one in the last 2000 years knew?