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@coffee addics “Do you take all gemaras the way you want without trying to understand it?”
i do, and looked at the mefarshim in the gemarah and medrash, and would encourage anyone who reads the sicha in chelek 2, (or saw it in the yaated neeman) to see the paragraphs before and after, and the footnotes!
@yankel berel “i remember hearing” exactly my point, you “heard” that R’ matisyanu solomon had concerns and made a meeting, therefore you decide the outcome of the meeting! great job, maybe the outcome was to do nothing about it because there is nothing wrong? ever thought of that option? especially cuz they didn’t end up doing anything, no kol korahs etc, which i’m sure they would have done if they felt it neededbottom line, i think we believe in different torahs. so you say im an idolater,
i would guess that would mean that i should have a lot of pity on you guys, who look at hashem as some interesting being (to say the least)
i wont call you guys any bad names cuz i beleive Hashem and the Rebbe dont want me to do that@philosopher
what about the book “By the Hand of Hashem” Rabbi Yaakov Friedrich (Author)
you should burn the book, the rambam writes in hilchos teshuvah
Five individuals are described as Minim: …c) one who accepts that there is one Master [of the world], but maintains that He has a body or form;@philosopher i guess yaakov avinu was an … according to you
if you want to go crooked say this: because defines a rebbe as atzmus in a guf, or runs the world etc. you cant say the word “rebbe”“A] none of them said anything about themselves, always about their rebbeim with no implication about themselves”
אמר ריש לקיש ויקרא לו אל אלהי ישראל, אמר אתה אלוה בעליונים ואני אלוה בתחתונים.
“He established there an altar, and called it [vayikra lo] El” – Reish Lakish said: “And called it El, God of Israel” – he said: ‘You are God of the heavenly, and I am the ruler of the earthly.’
Bereshit Rabbah
79
Etz Yosef on Bereishit Rabbah 79:8:1
אר”ל ויקרא לו כו’ פירושו שיעקב קרא לעצמו אל (יפ”ת ונזה”ק) וע”ש:
Rashi
נוטל שררה לעצמך. שקרא עצמו אל:and here is the gemara in megillah 18a
(all the litvaks should know this gemara “cuz they learn much more gemara than us”
And Rabbi Aḥa further said that Rabbi Elazar said: From where is it derived that the Holy One, Blessed be He, called Jacob El, meaning God? As it is stated: “And he erected there an altar, and he called it El, God of Israel” (Genesis 33:20). It is also possible to translate this as: And He, i.e., the God of Israel, called him, Jacob, El. Indeed, it must be understood this way, as if it enters your mind to say that the verse should be understood as saying that Jacob called the altar El, it should have specified the subject of the verb and written: And Jacob called it El. But since the verse is not written this way, the verse must be understood as follows: He called Jacob El; and who called him El? The God of Israel.shlomo cunin was simply saying the same thing as a gemarah and medrash, whoever is honest knows that just like you dont attack the medrash or gemara for saying such a statement, rather look in the mefarshim so too dont attack r’ shlomo cunin, (a much bigger tzadik then all your rav, and rosh yeshiva)
if you want to understand the statement, for the 4th time learn the maamer hibabtzu 5668, this sefer is learned by almost every lubavitcher (in yeshiva) so we can speak in our language, just like when we talk to eachother we say or hakalul biatzmuso, and dont need to give a 9 hour class what it means like i would need to do if i wanted a non lubavitcher to understand what im talking aboutsinas chinam is hating someone for any reason besides for the following specific case:
that if one sees his friend sinning, he should hate him,
This applies only
1) to one’s companion—one’s equal—in the study of Torah and the observance of the mitzvot.
2) He has also fulfilled with him—with the sinner—the injunction, “You shall repeatedly rebuke your friend.” The word used here for “your friend” (עֲמִיתֶךָ) also indicates, as the Talmud points out, עַם שֶׁאִתְּךָ—“he who is on a par with you in the Torah and the mitzvot,” who, nevertheless, has not repented of his sin, as it is written in Sefer Charedim.
BUT as to one who is not his companion—his equal—in the Torah and the mitzvot so that (as our Sages say concerning the ignorant in general) even his deliberate transgressions are regarded as inadvertent acts, since he is unaware of the gravity of sin, nor is he on intimate terms with him,—not only is one not enjoined to hate him, on the contrary Of this situation, Hillel said, “Be one of the disciples of Aharon, loving peace and pursuing peace, loving creatures and drawing them near to the Torah.”This usage of the term “creatures” in reference to human beings means that even those who are far from G‑d’s Torah and His service, for which reason they are classified simply as “creatures”—indicating that the fact that they are G‑d’s creations is their sole virtue—even those, one must attract with strong cords of love.
FURTHERMORE , even those whom one is enjoined to hate—for they are close to him, and he has rebuked them, but they still have not repented of their sins—one is obliged to love them too.
(tanya perek 32)qwerty you still never told me what daf, so i take it you dont learn anything as i thought
@yankel berel
a} since when is there a difference between calling a different person g-d or yourself? am haaretz you, 2) the rebbe was referring to the previous rebbe, 3) rashbi spoke about himself, the medrash quotes yakov avinus words about himself.
b} personal gain? like what? the sicha is about asking a bracha or tikun from a tzadik,
c} no point arguing with facts, you read my mind better than me so… i guess your right on this one
d} its a mishnah in pirkai avos moreh rabach kimoreh shamayim as well as many other maamrai chazal. (i never understood how you can bring a pfoof from the fact that others do different)@qwerty you still didnt tell me which daf? i want to discuss the sugya with you.
“As for your Midrash., I agree with it. My name is Yaakov and so you’ve convinced me that I’m god who created worlds. But seriously if you think that Midrashim must all be accepted literally then you obviously believe that Adam had relations with every creature in the universe on the day he was created.”
Congratulations you’re now officially a Christian since you believe in the Trinity, Hashem, Yaakov Avinu and Oso Harebbe.so basicelly youre saying 1) dont accept it litterly, ok so why do you take the rebbe’s statement and cunins statement THE SAME words litterly??
espessially as ive mentioned the rebbe explains in the haara what he means by comparing it to a yerushalmi and zohar. and at greater length see the maamer hikubtzu 5668 (in hemshach 5666)so you dont beleive the medrash about adam? how do you explain it?
@qwerty “I learn Avodah Zarah, Berachos and Shabbos..Most of the time is on Berachos. I try to make a Siyum every year for my Chabad shul on Erev Pesach. By the way I take about 25 hours to learn a blatt, because I write questions and answers. ”
which blatt? lets discuss the sugya!
also anyone looked up the medrash, gemarah and zohar that calls Yaakov Avinu G-D? and creator of worlds? anyone have an issue?
@yserbius as qwertny wrote ” He said that the Meshichistim don’t bother him, it’s the Elokistim, those who believe that the Rebbe is god who worry him.” i saw the letter, he writes he heard lubavitchers in benching say “boreinu” could he thats what he heard, sometimes people hear things they assume or imagine, boreinu is very similar to moreinu.
and you looked up the medrash, gemarah and zohar that calls Yaakov Avinu G-D? and creator of worlds? you have an issue? what’s the difference?“My point is that the vast majority of non-Chabad Rabbonim hold that there’s something wrong with believing that a dead man can be Moshiach. You can learn that yourself if you just do my quick experiment. Or you can continue to sit in ignorance. Your call.”
please bring one open statement from a non chabad rov that there’s something wrong with believing that a dead man can be Moshiach, and one who says its kefira will be better.
@qwerty sorry to call you a liar, but you dont seem learned at all to me. and from your posts its a bunch of he said, he said, no logic. i would like to discuss the gemara youre learning on a different thread with you
@always i dont have the book infront of me but he quotes the kriah vihakdusha with the exact reference, changes it, and writes that some misnagdim called it kefira, typicall misnaged move, just like this thread and the yaated naaman.anyone looked up the medrash, gemarah and zohar that calls Yaakov Avinu G-D? anyone have an issue?
To Seichel
Let’s put aside Lichtenstein s program. I want to know what you think. 1. Is the Rebbe physically alive? 2. Is he Moshiach? 3. Is he god clothed in human form? 4. Does he run the world? 5. Is/was he a Novi?
1 he’s found in the physicall world more now than 31 yrs ago (see tanya igeres hatshuvah perek 27)
2 a rebbe by definition is moshiach – see kuntres inyana shel toras hachasidus
3 the rebbe is not g-d ch”v. if you want to understand what that sicha means, and why the gedolim who saw it did not have an issue with it, just like they did not have an issue with the medrash and gemarah that calls yaakov avinu “g-d” (see below) see maamer הקבצו ושמעו in המשך הידוע
ד״יום טוב של ראש השנה – תרס״ו״
והנה במד״ר אמרו ושמעו אל ישראל אביכם, אל הוא ישראל אביכם, מה
הקב״ה בורא עולמות, אף אביכם בורא עולמות, מה הקב״ה מחלק עולמות, אף אביכם מחלק עולמות וכ״ה בגמ׳ מגילה די״ח א׳ ע״פ ויקרא לו אל אלקי ישראל, אלקי ישראל קרא ליעקב אל ובזהר איתא ג״כ קוב״ה קרא ליעקב אל. וכ״ה במדרש ע״פי ויקרא לו אל כו׳, אני אלקה בעליונים ואתה אלוה בתחתונים(כ״ה הגי׳ בילקוטי). וצ״ל איך שייך לומר כן על יעקב שלמטה
the maamer goes on to explain what it means (its from the rashab)
4 see the above quote about yaakov, explanation is there what it means
5 – the rambam writes that someone who predicts the future is a navi, its one of the 13 ikrim, one must beleive so. so yes definatly.
back to you 1) is yaakov g-d? does he create worlds? if not is the author of medrash and gemara a min? an oved ovada zara????@qwerty youre such a lier, you dont learn gemarah for 7 hours a day, its not possible for a person who learns 7 hrs a day to write such kefira and non sence
“To the group
Do any Lubavitchers still keep my the 9 days? I think that the Rebbe encouraged Siyumim so that his Chasidim would imagine themselves as having already been redeemed. BTW how many of those Siyumim are Halachially valid?”
PSA chabad does not eat meat or drink wine by the siyum!!!qwerty613
I don’t know which question you are referring to, sorry
@ always ask: This book has enormous number of citations, I never saw anything documented as well as this sefer. S
So great that’s my point. (I wrote that he makes up stuff, I came acroos a hakria vihakdusha he openly twisted the words (even though he quotes the source) and therefore calls it kefira. (you can check the original yourself)
LemaysehGreat point – it is very important to know that the Agudas Harabbonim, of which Rav Moshe was President in his later years, had a Lubavitcher secretary, by the name of Avrohom Shmuel Lewin,
Meaning they did not have an issue with Chabad. Reb moshe passed away before the big focus on the rebbe was moshiach started, but you can NOT decide what he would have held. As I mentioned before reb moshe backed the rebbe’s mivtzoim and the parade even though R’ shach wrote against it. The sicha that the rebbe is atzmus inclothed in a body was said over 30 yrs before R moshe was niftar, and printed over 20 yrs – in the 60s.
People keep claiming that we believe the rebbe is g-d, and that sicha is kefira ch”v, well all the gedolim were around then.@yeserbius Neither of you have taken up my challenge: Go find a RANDOM selection of non-Chabad Rabbonim and ask them if it’s OK to believe that a dead man is Moshiach. If you want, you can even start with Rav Breitowitz SHLITA
There is a video of Rav breitowitz talking about the lubavitchers who believe the rebbe is moshiach, its on youtube, he said there is nothing wrong as mentioned before he wrote a haskama to a sefer too@square root: see what I wrote to lemayse.
@yankel berel : in the times of the baal hatanya, the misnagdim accused chassidim of praying to the rebbe, the rebbe as being a cult leader, it being a new religion – go learn history, read yehoshu mundshin’s books, he brings all the Russian documents from the arrest of the baal hatanya. It’s a fact
Today people without opening up a Tanya, decide that the baal hatanya went with the litvishe derecho, its only today all the Chabad things started. Go open a Tanya
I’ll make a bet, anyone who brings a sicha, maamer, letter, etc of the Rebbe (My rebbe) that I can not find a makor in the seforim of the baal hatanya or his son the miteler rebbe – ill resign from being a chassid (I would give you money if you want $500)@qwerty reb moshe did not only shake hands with the rebbe, he openly wrote letters encouraging everything the rebbe did. these letters are available online,
ובדבר ענין נרות שבת לנערות, שהאדמו”ר מליובאוויטש שליט”א עוסק להנהיג בישראל, שאיזה אינשי אמרו שאני מנגד לענין זה. הנה מעולם לא שמעו ממני דבר כזה, בפרט שגם היו הרבה בשנים הקודמות שנהגו כן ברבים. ואם הרבי סובר שהוא ענין גדול לקרב בזה לתורה ולשמירת שבת, מי יכול לומר שאינו כן. ויצליחהו השי”ת בכוונתו לקדש שם שמים, וברצונו להרבות שומרי תורה ושומרי שבת בישראל”.
“בקשר עם מצב בריאותו של הגאון הצדיק האדמו”ר מליובאוויטש שליט”א, אשר שם לילות כימים בהרבצת התורה להחזקת היהדות, ובקירוב לבבות אחינו בני ישראל לאביהם שבשמים. הנני פונה בזה אל כבוד הרבנים שליט”א די בכל אתר ואתר, לדבר בבתי כנסיות ובבתי מדרשות, לעורר את אנשי קהילתם על דבר המבצעים הידועים של האדמו”ר מליובאוויטש לזכות את אחינו בני ישראל במצות תפילין מזוזה נרות שבת וכו’.. הרי בוודאי שכל פעולה במבצעים הנ”ל תחזק את בריאותו”.
he also took part in the siyum harambam (which r’ shach attacked) and encouraged the lag beomer parades (after r’ shach and the steipler signed against it)
all these you can find hand written letters or signitures from him
you guys are making all non sence
all the gedolim supported the rebbe and held of his as the gadal hador and many held he was moshiach (see i.e. rav aharon solovaitchiks letter in the jewish press, see rav britewitz video where he says that reb moshe saw it as a possibility that the rebbe is moshiach)@qwerty the quote that chabad is the closest religion to judaism was made before chabad ever said moshiach can be someone who died, and before the sicha about the rebbe being atzmus umehus in a guf was printed. (i.e. reb aharon kotler said such a statement (according to making of a gadal – who makes up many things so i dont know how trustworthy he is -) and he passed away before the sicha was printed.
the reason for that statement was becasue chabad as well as other chassidus, place the main focus on love and fear of hashem, kavanah, hachanos, etc.
the misnagdim who put the baal hatanya in prison, accused chassidim of being a cult with a leader, praying to the baal hatanya ch”v, the maggid, etc all the attacks that you think were craeted in the past 40 yrs. all old stuff, do your research.@qwerty you mean this ?Chabad resembles Judaism in that you keep Jewish rituals. Chabad resembles Christianity because your focus is on a dead Jew rather than a Living God. Look how you twist yourself like a pretzel to try to convince yourself tand others that Rabbis outside of Chabad think that the Rebbe is Moshiach. I’ll quote one of my Rabbeinu who never criticizes Chabad or anyone because he’s a Talmid of Rav Pam. “The belief that the Rebbe is Moshiach is not part of normative Judaism.” As far your statement that distinguished Rabbis say that the Rebbe is Moshiach. There are Rabbis who will say that Moshiach can come from the dead, although the Chofetz Chaim paskened otherwise. However those Rabbis have never said the Rebbe is the dead person that the Gemara is referring to.
bologna you
please answer the question
are the following Rabbonim apikorsim for saying that moshiach can come from the dead, and the chabad belief is totally accepted?
the following Rabbonim were asked about their opinion on chabad Rabbi Shmuel Kamenetsky, Rabbi Nissan Kaplan, Rabbi Hershel Shachter, Rabbi Menachem Mendel Shafran, Rabbi Dovid Cohen, Rabbi Dovid Yosef,
they all said there is NOTHING wrong with those who say the rebbe is moshiach, final.
in kuntres shmo shel moshiach which is a sefer about if moshiach can be from the dead, the following Rabbonim gave haskomos: Rabbi Yitzchok Breitewitz, Rabbi Zev Leff.“chabad is closer to Christianity than Judaism”, i love this statement, it really brings out what chabad is, other jews are human doings – just do dry halachos, Christians lihavdil focus ONLY on spirituality, chabad puts an emphasis on both, so when you compare chabad to dry litvaks or Christians one can say such a stupid statement.
@qwerty, yserbius
on lichtenstein show 102, the following Rabbonim were asked about their opinion on chabad Rabbi Shmuel Kamenetsky, Rabbi Nissan Kaplan, Rabbi Hershel Shachter, Rabbi Menachem Mendel Shafran, Rabbi Dovid Cohen, Rabbi Dovid Yosef,
they all said there is NOTHING wrong with those who say the rebbe is moshiach, final.
in kuntres shmo shel moshiach which is a sefer about if moshiach can be from the dead, the following Rabbonim gave haskomos: Rabbi Yitzchok Breitewitz, Rabbi Zev Leffyou want to call all these Rabbonim apikorsim ch”v?? thats what you are saying
(about what they say that those who say the Rebbe is g-d ch”v are minim, we went thru this many times, but these Rabbonim themselves many learn the Rebbe’s torah (you can find them talking about it on a recent interview,) Many of them are very close to chabad, Rav shmuel Kamenetsky gave a haskama to tzivos hashem Yahadus book, full of sichos of the Rebbe, and they never came out against the rebbe himself in public.
so obviously they have a bit more brains than you and know that what the rebbe said in the sicha, is the same thing written in gemara, medrash, zohar, yerushalmi, and it just needs to be understood properly and not twisted. those who understand it in a twisted way (or for that matter understand the gemara, medrash, pesukim in chumash etc, litterly or twisted, are also minim.)@qwerty these rabbonim are clearly not reffering to the sicha, because otherwise they would say the whole chabad are minim r”l, they say clearly those who beleive the rebbe is g-d down here (r”l) which are a select few – according to them.
listen again every single rav he speaks to mentions that there is nothing wrong with those who say the rebbe is moshiach
@lemayse: he has great rabbanim speaking on his podcast i.e. rav moshe shternbach, rav dovid cohen, rav hershal shachter and much more. ok so r’ gershen ribner argues,@qwertly and lamayse: they all said there is NOTHING wrong with believing the rebbe is moshiach, fact! listen again!
some said that the ones who daven to the rebbe ch”v, we should be merachek.
i agree, i would consider someone who davens to the rebbe, an oved avoda zara. just like i would consider all those who daven to r’ aharon kotler.
they never said to assume any lubavitchers daven to the rebbe, they just said it exists (i have no clue how they came to this conclusion)Lemayse. Listen to his podcast number 102. No need to debate
(@yeserbius)
Why is chabad Torah spreading more and more? A few weeks ago there were interviews where many rabbonim spoke about learning likutai sichos
I.e. Rav Hershel shachter, Rav Moshe Elefant, Rav Yitzchok Britowitz, Rav sholomo Katz .
Why is this, why don’t you have people from all circles running to other seforim? The reason may be explained by what R’ Leibel wulliger said (and is clear to anyone who spent time learning likutai sichos)Rabbi Leibel Wulliger of Boro Park, Rosh Kollel of Yeshiva Torah V’Daas, urged all Torah Jews to study Likkutei Sichos. As he put it:
“These teachings show us how to live and how to shape our homes. Everybody should learn the Rebbe’s sichos regularly, daily; if not, at least once a week.”
The anti chabad who won’t walk into a chabad or mishechist shul are living in fantasy. If you enjoy living that way good for you, I’m sure you get a lot of brownie points when you tell you’re friends how much of a kanai you are.
But 1) the ou hechahar has many mashgichim who are lubavitch and mishechist (as mentioned before that all chabad believe the rebbe is moshiach (according to lemayse),
2) k you won’t go to a chabad minyan when you’re on vacation, good excuse to daven yourself and save the trip to the chabad house
3) there is a podcast by R’ dovid Lichtenstein where he interviewes many leading rabbonim who all say there is nothing wrong with mishechistim who say the rebbe is moshiach
I.e. Rav Hershel shachter, Rav Dovid Cohen. And more as I wrote before, Rav Yitzchok Britowitz and others gave a haskama to a Sefer called shmoi shel moshiach – proving moshiach can be from the dead (written by a mishechist lubavitcher)Chabad won media maybe.
Anti chabad won the mishpacha and Yated neeman. So?Hashem wants us to yearn as Sam stated. The way we can awaken our yearning for moshiach is to learn about moshiach what will be then, and then we will realize more what we are missing now in galus. (The truth is you won’t need to throw away your fancy house when moshiach comes, but it will have less significance to you when moshiach comes and because of the revelation of G-dliness, physical pleasures won’t interest us )
@lemayseh
Also includes Rav Bridewitz who gave a haskama to a Sefer about how the rebbe is still moshiach. See shmo shel moshiach@coffee room guy
True kenoim: pinchas was a true kenai, (this week’s parshas)
In 5743 there was someone who acted as a true kenoi and attacked a lubavitcher (I forgot if it was R’ pinya kork a”h for teaching Tanya in Williamsburg, or R’ mendel vechter for becoming lubavitch and teaching chassidus chabad to his talmidim in satmer)
Anyway the rebbe spoke about it and mentioned that these people are following not pinchas rather ZIMRI,
Fast forward 30 yrs later it was a famous story he was accused of doing the acts of ZIMRI (or worse) and sentenced to life in prison.@right jew. thanks for the reference. looks like great videos,
btw there is a new book published trying to explain The Torah Philosophy of the Lubavitcher Rebbe
written by a Yeshiva University Rabbi called “Engaging the Essence”
(if you read his book honestly maybe you’ll understand what it means Atzmus U’mehus enclothed in a body)
@damoshe. i didn’t write the story, i copied from a website that copied from making of a gadol.@lerntmintayrah
Great comment and comparison
Just like you were not there and have no way to verify if the story is true or not, so to you don’t understand at all what a rebbe is and what chabad means what they say the rebbe is alive (physically) see Tanya Igeres hakodesh perek 27.Just to mention R’ schneur kotlers connection to chabad:
What was the Rebbe Rayatz and the Rebbe‘s involvement in the Shiduch of Rabbi Shneur Kotler? How did the Rebbe help Rabbi Meir Ashkenazi win the Din Torah against Rabbi Aharon Kotler?
It’s from the book making of a gadolThe following story was told over by Rabbi Moshe Ashkenazi OBM, member of Agudas Chassidei Chabad in Israel, and son of Rabbi Meir Ashkenazi OBM, a Chabad Chossid and the Rov of Shanghai:
In 1940, as a Bochur, Rabbi Shneur Kotler fled Poland for Vilna, the capital of Lithuania, where many of the Non-Chassidic Yeshivos relocated due to the World War which began. In Vilna, he became engaged to Rischel Friedman, daughter of Rabbi Malkiel Friedman of Kovno.
A short while later, his grandfather, Rabbi Isser Zalman Meltzer sent the young Shneur a visa to enter Mandatory Palestine, which saved his life, while his bride escaped to Shanghai, a haven for many European Jews who escaped the war horrors and were saved.
During her stay in Shanghai, Rischel contracted the deadly Typhus disease, which threatened her life, and was placed in isolation, where she was expected to die. However, Rabbi Meir Ashkenazi and his wife didn’t give up hope, and took the young girl under their wing, caring for all her needs, and ensuring her recovery from the deadly disease. Afterwards, she dedicated herself to helping Chabad Bochurim in Shanghai, serving as the translator for the doctors who did not speak Yiddish or Polish, translating what the Bochurim told the doctors, and what the doctors ordered the Bochurim.
The next years were filled with worries about her family left behind in Europe, and she looked forward to meeting
During the war, Rischel looked forward to meeting her groom, Rabbi Shneur Kotler, who was then in Israel. In 1946, after the war ended, and the first chance of meeting her groom came about, Rischel was smuggled in a suitcase aboard a ship to the USA, where she hoped to meet her groom and get married. During the trip she was sick, and Gershon Chanowitz, one of the Chabad Bochurim she helped, ensured she was taken care of, so she can recover.
However, one person was not happy with this arrangement; the father of the groom, Rabbi Aharon Kotler, was vehemently opposed to the Shiduch, claiming that the Typhus will cause her to die young and not be able to have children; he therefore demanded that the girl forgive her Chosson and cancel the engagement.
Rischel was devastated, and sent a message that since the Chosson is still in favor of the Shiduch, she will only cancel the Shiduch if Rabbi Meir Ashkenazi will approve.
While this was going on, Rabbi Aharon Kotler called Rabbi Meir Ashkenazi to a Din Torah, asking for the funds that Rabbi Ashkenazi used for Chabad students during the war, and demanding he pay it back. The background to this story:
As a result of the pending Din Torah, and the Shiduch crisis, Rabbi Ashkenazi went into Yechidus to the Frierdiker Rebbe and asked him what to do about these two issues. The Frierdiker Rebbe answered that he should consult with the Rebbe (then known as the “Ramash”) and do as he says.The Ramash told Rabbi Asheknazi that he should stand strong to ensure the Shiduch takes place, saying that since they made Halachic T’naim, they have to follow through, and added that he doesn’t see a reason that she should be barren or die early. The Ramash also told him, that he should push off the Din Torah until after the wedding, and then he should claim that since he risked his life for getting the money, he was entitled to a percentage, and that this percentage he gave to Chabad Bochurim; he added that he should ask the Beis Din to determine the amount.
Rabbi Ashkenazi did as he was told, and after much convincing and even arranging a nice-sized dowry, he was able to convince Rabbi Aharon Kotler to allow his son, Shneur to marry Rischel.
After the wedding, Rabbi Ashkenazi went into Yechidus to the Rebbe Rayatz, and reported his conversation with the Ramash and the wedding. The Rebbe Rayatz spent a long time asking questions about the wedding, demanding to know every detail, including who was present, who spoke, what was served, etc. and thanked him profusely for his help.
After the wedding, when the Din Torah took place, Rabbi Ashkenazi presented his claims to the Beis Din, as ordered by the Rebbe, and the Beis Din found that Rabbi Aharon Kotler owes money to Rabbi Ashkenazi! Rabbi Ashkenazi replied, that he wants that the balance should be given to the young couple as dowry, and asked the Beis Din to ensure that it was fulfilled.
During the years that passed, Mrs. Rischel Kotler kept a connection with Rabbi & Mrs. Meir Ashkenazi, referring to them as her “parents,” and instructed her children to respect them and keep a friendship. When it was time for her son, Rabbi Yitzchok Shraga Kotler to get married, he married Miriam, granddaughter of Rabbi Meir Ashkenazi.
@da . I wrote before that I want to start a thread to discuss a sugya in gemarah with you and the others on this thread so I can see your level of learning.
Btw that statement about rabbonim saying not to eat shchita of chassidim who say the rebbe is moshiach, is bologna, do your research. Not arguing about this but see shmo shel moshiach .com
There was maybe a couple of misnagdim (like you who don’t accept the baal shem tov) who said that.@da correct if you reject a clear gemarah (I e. If you’re an apikores) then yes, your right!
@da. i gave up. you won on this toppic. anyway its the day that the king gave up his life to win the war and will lead to bringing moshiach. (as stated in basi ligani 5710)
Gimmel tamuz is coming: the last maamer the rebbe gave out speaks about the avoda that needs to be in America, that even though a jew can be comfortable physically and spiritually to the ultimate (don’t know anyone holding there) , he needs to be broken from the fact that another jew is not on this level , 30 yrs later, let’s wake up!!!!
You can make awareness about mental health without publicizing a story that can scare people, is lashon hara, etc .
There is plenty of awareness and everyone already knows that just because someone is “from” – comes to shul, wears a white shirt, doesn’t mean he’s any different than a non frum jew and doesn’t mean the things that non Jews do, he can’t do (obviously a jew is a jew in the inside)This sounds like “my tatty is stronger than your tatty”
I don’t understand the debate: who spends more money, that’s a bad thing, well what’s the alternative? If it’s to give to tzedaka, that’s a mitzvah, if it’s to save and reinvest in business, then what’s the difference?? I would say on the contrary, better spend more than save more (not saying to not save at all, but one can make a basic vessel for parnasa and emergencys and the rest rely on hashem) If you’re saying that they should work less and learn in their extra time – that depends on the person see hilchos Talmud Torah in shulchan aruch harav perek 3. Someone who is not able to learn kol hatorah kulah from the mekoros – ראש בית יוסף, and there reasons, is not obligated to make his תורה קבע ומלאכתו עראי .
And what about instead of working hard on a business, a person just has his 9-5 job, and in his free time watches movies, radio shows, politics, posts on these forums TYW, etc.Learning and doing mitzvos for gan Eden vs physical reward:
ולא אמרו חכמים “לעולם יעסוק אדם בתורה ובמצות אפילו שלא לשמה” (רא”ש פרק ד’ דפסחים ותוספות סוטה דף כ”ב) אלא כשמקיים המצות שלומד בתורה, רק שאינו לומד ומקיים לשם שמיים אלא מיראת העונש בעולם הבא או אפילו בעולם הזה או מאהבת שכר לקבל פרס בעולם הבא או אפילו בעולם הזה עושר וכבוד ש”למשמאילים בה” הנתן מן השמים או אפילו ליקח מעצמו כבוד וגדולה שיקראוהו רב ויהיה ראש ישיבה@da
1) in yeshiva in chabad they have sefer learning gemarah for 7 hours.
2) sichos are also Torah – many of them are pilpulim in gemarah – so it’s the same thing as learning a reb chain or a ketzos which you would consider learning gemarah. And the Rashi ones or chassidus ones are also Torah. Anything wrong with learning Chumash Rashi and meforshim.
3) chassidus is Torah, just because you don’t hold of learning it, we go like shitas chabad, and it’s even paskened in shulchan aruch that one should learn kabalah, penimius hatorah. The baal hatanya writes one should learn 1 third of the day penimius hatorah. (It’s in likutai Torah, it’s referenced in shulchan aruch harav hilchos Talmud Torah)
4) first of all the sugar of nisim is a sugya in chassidus and kabalah. See hachodesh 5666 – of the the deepest concepts in chassidus. People spend a year learning this sugya or more. 2nd of all – I heard 2 litvaks discussing who is a bigger gadol reb Moshe of reb shlome zalman. So….. Point?
5) I would actually like to have a gemarah discussion with you and see your level of learning, start a new thread, whatever sugya you want.@Lemayseh
Right go to 770 and see hundreds of buchurim learning. Ask around how many are baalai tshuvos,
Go on gimmel tamuz, see thousands of baalai tshuvos..
The fact that some people took control of signs or doing some things is like in the time of the 2nd bais hamikdash many of the kohanim gedolim paid there way in.
Focus on the ikur not a minor detail.
I would like to see the talmidim of the gedolim you mentioned and what’s left of them – % of original talmidim and their talmidim and familys who actually follow in the ways he thought them!It’s very simple, the event is to raise money, אם אין קמח אין תורה
No music, no event (or a tiny event in a bais medrash in Lakewood that may raise 1% of the funds needed)@da, oh I get you, you don’t learn kabalah, and make fun of the baal shem tov, toldos and the baal hatanya because they teach cabalistic ideas that you never heard of! Correct?
Avos 1:1, in other words there is no source. R’ Yehuda hanasi saw that Torah was being forgotten so he wrote it down, still looking for where this “mesorah” idea comes from.
Jews always learned kabalah,
Btw mesilas yeshorim is based on kabalah, and the first perek the purpose why a jew was created comes from eitz chayim.@da checked up the Toldos Yakov Yosef on Chukas, it’s not clear to me what he is referring to, but he mentions it in many places (I saw in the מפתח,) and they bring in the sources from kisvai arizal פרי עץ חיים פרק ו,
So why don’t you learn the arizal? You don’t hold of arizal?
How did you understand the idea of a tzadik lowering himself into the levels of tumah? And what is your issue with that?
@chaim could be maybe I’ll watch the adirai hatorah speeches and see what they are saying and tell you what I think about it .
I definitely agree with you that many chassidim focus too much on schar and onesh, I’m not sure where it comes from. Maybe the lack of learning chassidus.The rambam writes in his hakdoma of Mishnah Torah that when there was a Sanhedrin everyone needed to follow it, whatever is in shas everyone needs to follow, anything after, one kehilla can’t force another kehillah to follow .
Da ill check it up iyh
Can you bring me a makor for your statement of mesorah? Or it’s just your own mesorah that I need to accept?
Your saying that the baal shem tov leaned new ways, example please? Saying something is more important is not a change. And there are different מאמרי חזל about it. See hilchos Talmud torah of the shulchan aruch harav where he says dvaikus in tefillah overrides learning Torah (he brings mekoros and we all know he knew shas better than me and you)
Overriding zmanim we already discussed this , there are mekoros, פרישה on the tur. It’s not against shas against the michaber and tama? The gra argued too!!@da
It’s hard to discuss rumors or quotes that I don’t see the context
Can you bring me where you get this quote from “But that’s not what the Besht taught – he taught that the tzaddik has to lower himself into realms of tumah in order to lift others out.”
To say the baal shem tov changed the mesorahs 1) you need to. Point out an example and show how it’s a new idea not mentioned in any proceeding seforim (otherwise you can’t claim it’s new) 2) even if the baal shem tov taught an idea which you say was never practiced before, 1) what’s the issue of not following mesorahs (unless you claim it’s AGAINST Torah) 2) the baal shem tov new more Torah than me and I’m sure he had his mekoros, he also had talmidim geonim adirim who accepted his ways and did not attack him for changing mesorah.
The gra did not change mesorah?? 1) he argues with shulchan aruch??!!
What exactly is mesorah in the first place? I need to follow everything exactly the way my father did? What if my father got a heter to be makil in something, I can’t be machmir? How in the world should I know everything what to do just by growing up in my father’s house for 20 yrs or less? What if my father was not the biggest tzadik, I should follow him? What about all the new things happening in the world – internet, radio, technology, etc?@da “Quoting Tanya to back up a chassidic belief doesn’t make sense. Get a proof from before the Besht.”
Wow real misnaged
What do you believe in? Is gemarah good? Zohar? Kisvai ari?
Would you also write that about anything the vilna gaon write – that it’s preposterous – if you dont know of a makor for it in whatever you believe in – I would assume at least tanach Mishnah and gemarah.More about connecting to a tzadik and receiving from him higher understanding and revelations in g-dliness see עמק המלך הקדמה שלישית פרק ג-ה
משנת חסידים מס’ היחודים
Do you agree with these seforim or you argue with them too?In Tanya אגרת הקודש אגרת כז-כח it also talked about receiving אמונה אהבה ויראה thru the tzadik, thru being connected to him. It’s a zohar
@Damoshe I didn’t write that arguing is apikores, I wrote that saying a talmid chachams teachings are preposterous is apikores. (It’s a clear gemarah, if you can’t find it, then for sure you have no business making fun of teachings of a talmid chachams)
The gra may have argued with CERTAIN teachings, that doesn’t give you the right to make fun of things they say when you have no proof.
Can you bring exactly what the gra called apikores?
You know they agree at least on one thing – zmanim, who said he argued on עיבור נשמות – כתבי ארי
You know the gemarah says 4 died בעטיו של נחש – they had no sin. Is that also apikores?