Forum Replies Created
-
AuthorPosts
-
sechel83Participant
Example of the Rebbe’s nevuah is that no one will be killed from the skuds. I’m not a posek but many poskim signed that the rebbe has a din navi. Search Google for the psak din.
sechel83ParticipantYankel berel. I didn’t see the smag inside so I won’t criticize anyone who says otherwise but it sounds like a machlokes to me
sechel83Participant@qwerty. I have a better answer. None are kofrim, the rambam gives a list of people who are kofrim, he doesn’t mention either!!
You have a proof somewhere that says someone who says there is no schar and onesh for a period of time is a kofer??sechel83Participant“rambam seems to say [as far as i remember] close before mashiach nevuah will return .” i already quoted it, he says Rambam igeres taiman:
“According to the interpretation of this chronology, prophecy would be restored to Israel in the year 4976 after the creation of the world” ולפי ההקש הזה והפירוש הזה תחזור הנבואה לישראל בשנת ארבעה אלפים תתקע”ו ליצירה
i dont have page numbers but you can search the above words in sefaria in igeres taimonMaybe Rabbi Cumin was exaggerating when he said the Rebbe runs the world. i agree 100% (we went thru this already medrash gemarah that says yaakov is g-d)
sechel83Participantbasics of the sugya would be the igeres taimon of the rambam
sechel83ParticipantPlease clarify, are you affirming that BOTH of the following propositions are true?
1) Saying there is no Nevuah today is kfira
2) Saying there is no schar and onesh today is not kfira
NO im saying the opposite, just like to say FOR A PERIOD OF TIME there is no nevuah even though its an ikur, so too schar and onesh (im not saying definatly this is the case, but you need to bring a pfoof that someone is a kofer, and whats the difference0
sechel83ParticipantOne of the 13 ikrim is that there is nevuah, and it’s in hilchos yesofai hatorah of the rambam
So why saying that there is no nevuah today is not kefira but manis Friedman who says there is no onesh is??!!sechel83Participant@Yankel berel
So you’re taking the smag over the rambam? Are you a posek?
As far as manis Friedman shlita, where does it say that someone who says what he said is kefira? Source?
Don’t say ani maamin, cuz he’s not rejecting onesh , he said that because of the great difficulty of galus, hashem takes that into consideration and because of that, at this point no onesh like there was many yrs ago (He may have been exaggerating by saying no onesh completely anyway)sechel83ParticipantYankel berel about nachas, all you wrote was that it wasn’t done before. How do you know? What’s the issue?
Read the whole igeres! Don’t make fun as if there is no nevuah if you haven’t learned basics in this sugya. I don’t know which page, where I got it from – sefaria – there I no pages
I get from the gemara sotah that the rebbe can have nevuah just maybe on a lower level just like you say about RMF.sechel83ParticipantYankel berel
Since shalom was made between chasidim and misnagdim in the time of R yotzchok volozin, which gedolim criticized chasidim and Rebbe’s? Called them names, kofrim?
Litvishe gedolim going to university is not good enough for you?
In which way do you see the rebbe was influenced from going to university?
In chabad chassidus it speaks about how very high neshamos go into low places to be mivarer the nitzutzos there, which ordinary people can’t do. Like Yosef hatzadik was the king of mitzraim and gathered all the nitzutzossechel83ParticipantRambam igeres taiman:
“According to the interpretation of this chronology, prophecy would be restored to Israel in the year 4976 after the creation of the world”sechel83ParticipantYankel berel maybe we talk about giving the rebbe nachas. Other Jews talk about bringing nachas to their parents so I guess according to you they are idalizing their parents.
Good excuse for OTD. That’s not what they meant clearly.
The gemara in sotah has a whole list of things that were batul like שקדנים, יראי חטא etc. Will you say reb Moshe feinstein did not have יראת חטא? Was not a שקדן???
We went thru this already, the rambam writes nevua will come back a long time ago.sechel83Participant@yankel berel how many people were by this event of the burning?? 100?
Chabad going OTD, good one, every community has people going OTD, chabad no more than others, but that was not the point, he and others (like R shach) were concerned that the focus on the rebbe being moshiach and having our hopes up so high, can lead to people going OTD if the rebbe passes away. This did not happen.
I told you to watch early years – has all your answerssechel83ParticipantYankel berel: there is a video called early years, you can find all your answers there from most reliable sources (i.e. talmidim of Rabbi Yosef Dov Solovatchik who was with the rebbe, documents, letters) instead of taking your info from who knows where.
By the way I never was told chabad is against Deutchs books. I actually own them and read parts, but many of his story’s are not from reliable sources (just look at the sources he brings)
But it’s very understandable why some chabad don’t like his books as he writes against chabad. (He wrote 30 yrs ago about the dangers chabad faces because we look at the rebbe larger than life, now we are 30 yrs later , and chabad didn’t get worse, on the contrary, many who opposed chabad then, now accept chabad, it’s like all those who were afraid chabad will go off the derech if the rebbe passes away, well it never happened!!)sechel83Participant@ casual onlooker
Very nice recap
To your questions by the end, they are answered in the sicha in a footnote.
This idea of מקיפים דבינה needs a big introduction to understand what it means
In general there are different types of tzadikim, like נשמות דמה and נשמות דבן it’s not just who’s greatersechel83ParticipantHow long can you (we) be arguing back and forth about the same thing??
What is your thoughts about the moshiach seuda, found any issue with it?sechel83Participant“Being a Torah Jew doesn’t require one to replace rationality with voodoo logic.”
this statement is not what chassidim beleive – the perpose of existence is to turn the yesh to ayin – i have to get rid of the way i think and think the way torah says to think even if it doesn’t make sence to my limited brain
and i think this is not what toras haniglah believes either
דעת בעלי בתים היפך דעת תורהSeptember 7, 2024 8:29 pm at 8:29 pm in reply to: The final word on Moshiach from the meisim (hopefully!) #2312242sechel83ParticipantPhilosopher:
No one believes such a thing,
It’s something made up just like all chabad does the whole day in yeshiva is learn Tanya and put teffillen on jewssechel83ParticipantQwerty amazing point, now read everything else in context
The gemarah that says only 1 of 500 will be there when moshiach comes, comes after a Mishnah that says every new has a portain in the world to come, the amid before says a person is zoche to olem haha as soon as he answers amen. Etc. learn the sugya
Atzmus in a guf comes be hemshech why one can ask a rebbe for brachos and tikinum – just like the mega shim on the medrash that says Yaakov is G-dsechel83Participant@yankel berel
Don’t tell me what your leader said or did not say at the time .
I was following every utterance of his at the time he made them . They were quoted in kfar habad magazine at the time and were disseminated all over the jewish world like only habad knows how to.I myself remember how he said that EY is the safest place on the globe and that no one will be hurt there.
And I also remember this being used as proof [by habad propaganda] for his so called [literal!] nevua status.I agree with most of it , but I don’t remember the rebbe saying no one will get hurt, I can look again in the sichos,
People get hurt all over the world all the time, eretz yisroel is the safest place, I heard only one jew was hurt by the golf war and it was not directly from the missilesechel83ParticipantI never wrote that Yaakov avenue is G-d litterly. I wrote you should learn the maamer הקבצו תרסח, after learning that and understanding it, you won’t have complaints on the Rebbe and R shlome cunin. They said the same things as the gemarah.
All you guys do is say well the gemarah is obviously not litterly but cunin means literally as if the rebbe runs the world and not hashem ch”v.
When Ponevitch gets likutai sichos, maybe I’ll get a Avi ezri.
Practically the chabad shul I go to, gets seforim people use, Avi ezri is a Sefer on rambam pilpulim, not pshat, and is a certain style of learning and will not be used by anyone who comes there. (I personally never met a litvak who can say over to me a full piece of Avi ezri. All chabad yeshivos (I saw) have ktzos even though he was a misnaged (maybe even more than R’ shach.) also noda bihuda and others. the rebbe brings in sichos from the Gra, (even though he made a cherem against chassidim and wrote they say a tree is G-d) as well as many other misnagedim.August 31, 2024 9:41 pm at 9:41 pm in reply to: The final word on Moshiach from the meisim (hopefully!) #2310249sechel83Participantthe vilna gaon was fed lies by the misnagdim, thats why he made a cherem against chassidim, he considered chassidim ovdai avoda zara, a cult, etc (all the things claimed against chabad today)
these misnagdim said hallel (some of them) the day the baal hatanya was put in jail – they thought he would never get out
the vilna gaon accepted edus from people he trusted, it wasn’t really his fault.sechel83Participantjust a reminder who qwerty is:
does not understand lashon kodesh or yiddish
claims he learns gemara for 7 hrs a day and spends 10s of hrs on each blatt, but i asked him a simple pshat question on the blatt he just learned and was not able to answersechel83Participant@yankel berel
if you open a chumash you will see that moshe rabainu told the jews we are going into eretz yisroel, it never happened, moshe and all the jews of that generation passed away in the desert. only the next generation went into eretz yisroel
hundreds of rabbanim signed a psak din that the rebbe has a din of a navi, go learn the sugya. besides the rebbe never said that no one will get hurt, go read the sichos,sechel83ParticipantI challenged the Rebbe because he rejected the Gemara which says that there is no longer Nevuah.
the rambam writes in igeres taiman that he has a mesorah from his father nevuah will return (i forgot the exact year but) around the year 5000, a little before.
ruach hakodesh is a level in nevuah see shaar hanevuahlet me ask you a simple question? do you accept everything it says in gemarah? medrashim? zohar?
do you accept rishonim? achronim? till which achron?
another question why or why not do you accpet them?sechel83Participanti gave all the “lomdom” time to answer. now look in shulchan aruch harav hilchos talmud torah perrek 4, he spells it out very simple.
now dont claim you learn gemara (qwerty) this is the gemara you just learned!sechel83ParticipantBasic summery
What ever it says in chazal, rishonim, achronim, and todays gedolim – you understand it the way you want, so you cant bring it as basis for anything
Whatever the rebbe, or any chabad rabbi says , you need to understand it litterly, so even if they quote a gemara, in gemarah its not litteral, and in cunins words its litteral.
I hope i got this correct?sechel83ParticipantWhy didn’t chazal, rishonim, achronim till the maharsha consider the gemarah kfira for writing that yaakov is g-d, or the medrash for the same reason?
sechel83ParticipantToday’s Tanya discusses the gemarah in megillah
Learn tanya are discover the neshama of Judaism
@Yankel berel the nusach of a pan is אנא לעורר רחמים רבים
Its amazing how someone can see thousands of jews davening every day the nusach of the siddur and think otherwise
Btw do you say barchuni lishalom in sholom elichem? If not do you consider everyone who does kofrim?
If you want an explanation you can learn שרש מצות התפילה in דרך מצותיך
Dr berger knows more about Christianity (which is an issur to learn in this weeks parsha) than Judaismsechel83Participantqwerty first answer my question in brachos in the other thread – on the gemara you just learned for 10s of hours on this blatt, then ill discuss this gemara with you. it would help if you would read this gemara – the whole page then comment,
here in english:
With regard to the verse: “For I have taken you to Myself: And I will take out one of a city, and two of a family” (Jeremiah 3:14), Reish Lakish says: The meaning of this statement is as it is written, that only individuals will be spared and the rest will be destroyed. Rabbi Yoḥanan said to him: It is not satisfactory to God, their Master, that you said this about them. Rather, the merit of one from the city causes the entire city to benefit, and the merit of two from a family causes the entire family to benefit and be redeemed. Likewise, the Gemara relates that Rav Kahana sat before Rav, and sat and said: The meaning of this statement is as it is written. Rav said to him: It is not satisfactory to God, their Master, that you said this about them. Rather, the merit of one from the city causes the entire city to benefit, and the merit of two from a family causes the entire family to benefit and be redeemed.also on that gemarathe maharal explains on that gemara of 1/300k that it means from all the jews who lived in all the generations, many died or were killed. so what will be left when moshiach comes will be 1/300k. nothing to do with only some jews being redeemed. so by techiyas hamasim the jews will multiply 300k times. because all the jews from all generations will come back
sechel83Participantthis gemarah is mentioned in shulchan aruch and when davening for so long takes precedence over learning torah. anyone who learned this gemarah in depth i would think should know this. ill give the answer eventually, im just trying to see/prove qwerty level learning
sechel83ParticipantWhat makes berger a rabbi.
To me he seems like an idiot who tried to cause sinas chinam
Bh only some modern guys look upto himsechel83ParticipantYankel berel
Its very good proof.
The rebbe explained it logicly, look in the sicha
What the rebbe said about the chazon ish, all the rebbe xid was exain a gemara, the gemara says that a talmid chachum who did not learn a part of torah in this world, won’t be able to learn that part in olem habah . He can be the greatest talmid chachumsechel83Participant@qwerty oh also reish lakish argues with r simai , see the gemarah you quoted, (don’t just take one line out)
This is clearly talking about moshiach
(And your splitting moshiach and olem habah is correct its not the same thing but many times like here its referring to techiyas hamasim after moshiach comes as is clearly seen from the gemarah and as those meforsbim i brought write clearly.
And its harder to be zoche to olem habah than techiyas hamasim, see likutai torahsechel83ParticipantQwerty if you would be able to read Hebrew, there is a responsa from r’ moshe shterbach that its permitted to give a michalel shabbos or yom kippur an ilia, and its permitted to invite him to shul knowing he will drive
Maybe learn halacha for a few hrs a day instead of gemarah for 7 hrs
Maybe learn chumash too.
Every jew is a tzadik – ועמך כולם צדיקיםsechel83ParticipantThey clearly write they are referring to עולם התחייה – read their words,
If you cant understand lashon kodesh, how on earth can you think of giving opinions on who is a gadal or not, or anything in yiddishkeit.
Go learn לשון הקודש first ,sechel83Participantseems like the gedolim dont agree with berger. thats the only explanation why they dont endorse his ideas.
sechel83Participantqwerty613
To Seichel
Please give me the proofs from the Rabbis you quoted that they reject this Gemara. I don’t read original Hebrew or Yiddish sources.
so you agree your very ignorant finally
they all – ramban, alshich, arizal, emek hamelech and others – say that every jew has a share in the world to come – which they say refers to techiyas hamasim – exactly what you called the rebbe a kofer for rejecting a gemarahsechel83Participantnice svaros
im referring to it being brought somewhere in halacha. its for qwerty who learned the sugya beiyunsechel83Participant@qwerty sorry i didnt see you wrote brachos 33, ill start a thread. i hope you’ll join.
“I call the Rebbe. a Kofer because he rejected open Gemaras. One such Gemara is Sanhedrin 111A in which R Simai said that most Jews won’t be redeemed by Moshiach just as most Jews who left Egypt didn’t enter the land of Canaan. The Rebbe rejected this and said that Moshiach will save every single Jew”
we went thru this gemarah before. if you spent 7 hrs learning that blatt, you would see there are other opinions, is the baal hatanya a kofer ch”v or the ramban? ויסוד לדברים אלו בדרוש רבינו הזקן ד”ה להבין ביאור ענין האבות ה”ה המרכבה (בתורת אור פ’ יתרו) ס”ג-ד, וז”ל: ענין עוה”ב שהוא ג”ע ותחה”מ ומבואר במפרשים1 וברמב”ן בשער הגמול שעיקר השכר עוה”ב הוא בתחה”מ, שמעלת תחה”מ היא יתרה מג”ע העליון. והנה בג”ע יושבין נשמות הצדיקים בלא גופות… ותחה”מ הוא שיעמדו בגופיהם… אפילו פושעי ישראל מלאים מצות כרמון ולכן כל ישראל יש להם חלק לעוה”ב בתחה”מ חוץ מאותם שמנו חכמים. עכ”ל.
what about the emek hamelech עמק המלך (בתחלתו ש’ תקוני התשובה ספ”ג) וז”ל: ועתה בנים שמעו לי יראת ד’ אלמדכם ואהבתו הק’ עמנו בני א-ל חי, למה לו כולי האי לטרוח עצמו ברשעים האלו המכעיסים אותו בכל עת ובכל רגע, ב’ תשובות בדבר התשובה הא’ כו’ אע”פ שהם רשעים גמורים כו’ ניצוצי קדושה בהם כו’ שהם נצר מטעי כו’ והיא חלק אלקה היא נצחי כו’ והנשמות הם רושם אור עצמותו וכל (אולי צ”ל “דכל”) הנופח מעצמותו הוא נופח כו’ ועוד טעם שני מעשה ידי להתפאר כו’ הק’ הוא ומעשה ידיו חיים וקיימים לעד ולעולמי עולמים ואי אפשר שתתבטל כ
medrash shmuel, alshich, rabmabn
ובמדרש שמואל ריש מס’ אבות בפי’ משנת כל ישראל כתב וז”ל: עולם הבא הנזכר כאן הוא עולם התחי’ ולא ישא אלקים את נפש הרשע עד כי ברוב הימים ימצאנה מטוהרה ואז נגנזת במחיצת הצדיקים כו’ וכן ע”ז הדרך לכל הנשמות עד שיתוקנו כולם כו’ וז”ש הכתוב ועמך כולם צדיקים כלומר בהכרח יהיו כולם צדיקים לפי שהוא ית’ חשב מחשבות לבלתי ידח ממנו נדח, עכ”ל.ועד”ז הוא באלשיך פ’ שמיני.
ויסוד לדברי כהנ”ל הוא בליקוטי הש”ס להאריז”ל מס’ אבות, וז”ל: כל ישראל יש להם חלק לעוה”ב כו’ רק שזה יתקן עצמו בזמן מועט וזה בזמן מרובה אבל סופם הוא להמנות עם הצדיקים ומשום זה שהקב”ה כביכול מטריח את עצמו עם רשעים כאלו לתקנם כו’ ולמה כן בשביל שהם נצר מטעי שהוא נצחיי והם רושם אור עצמותו וכל הנופח מעצמו הוא נופח. עכ”ל.
ויעוין ג”כ ברמב”ן בש’ הגמול (הובאו דבריו לקמן) שכתב: הנפש שהיא עליונה אי אפשר שתהי’ בטלה ואובדת כו’.
@coffee addict. so you take the maharsha’s pshat? that does not mean that you cant say a different pshat, as he mentions himself. so i understand it the way its explained by the rashab. and why cant you find an explanation of the sicha just like you did with the gemara? (to start, the paragraph before, after, footnotes, maamarim i mentioned)sechel83Participant@yankel berel
misnagdim have history of making up stuff and telling it to there gedolim, i guess they feel that its justified for the outcome, they did this since the times of the baal shem tov, more in the times of the magid which causes the gra to put chassidim in cherem
btw do you hold of the gra’s cherem or you think he made a mistake? or a 3rd option?
qwerty did not join my discussion in gemarah on a seperate thread, i tried to ask him to start so he can discuss a sugya he’s learning, but he never did so i started on on inyonai diyoma. seems like he’s bologna and does not learn (as i thought)sechel83Participant@coffee addics “Do you take all gemaras the way you want without trying to understand it?”
i do, and looked at the mefarshim in the gemarah and medrash, and would encourage anyone who reads the sicha in chelek 2, (or saw it in the yaated neeman) to see the paragraphs before and after, and the footnotes!
@yankel berel “i remember hearing” exactly my point, you “heard” that R’ matisyanu solomon had concerns and made a meeting, therefore you decide the outcome of the meeting! great job, maybe the outcome was to do nothing about it because there is nothing wrong? ever thought of that option? especially cuz they didn’t end up doing anything, no kol korahs etc, which i’m sure they would have done if they felt it neededsechel83Participantbottom line, i think we believe in different torahs. so you say im an idolater,
i would guess that would mean that i should have a lot of pity on you guys, who look at hashem as some interesting being (to say the least)
i wont call you guys any bad names cuz i beleive Hashem and the Rebbe dont want me to do thatsechel83Participant@philosopher
what about the book “By the Hand of Hashem” Rabbi Yaakov Friedrich (Author)
you should burn the book, the rambam writes in hilchos teshuvah
Five individuals are described as Minim: …c) one who accepts that there is one Master [of the world], but maintains that He has a body or form;sechel83Participant@philosopher i guess yaakov avinu was an … according to you
if you want to go crooked say this: because defines a rebbe as atzmus in a guf, or runs the world etc. you cant say the word “rebbe”sechel83Participant“A] none of them said anything about themselves, always about their rebbeim with no implication about themselves”
אמר ריש לקיש ויקרא לו אל אלהי ישראל, אמר אתה אלוה בעליונים ואני אלוה בתחתונים.
“He established there an altar, and called it [vayikra lo] El” – Reish Lakish said: “And called it El, God of Israel” – he said: ‘You are God of the heavenly, and I am the ruler of the earthly.’
Bereshit Rabbah
79
Etz Yosef on Bereishit Rabbah 79:8:1
אר”ל ויקרא לו כו’ פירושו שיעקב קרא לעצמו אל (יפ”ת ונזה”ק) וע”ש:
Rashi
נוטל שררה לעצמך. שקרא עצמו אל:and here is the gemara in megillah 18a
(all the litvaks should know this gemara “cuz they learn much more gemara than us”
And Rabbi Aḥa further said that Rabbi Elazar said: From where is it derived that the Holy One, Blessed be He, called Jacob El, meaning God? As it is stated: “And he erected there an altar, and he called it El, God of Israel” (Genesis 33:20). It is also possible to translate this as: And He, i.e., the God of Israel, called him, Jacob, El. Indeed, it must be understood this way, as if it enters your mind to say that the verse should be understood as saying that Jacob called the altar El, it should have specified the subject of the verb and written: And Jacob called it El. But since the verse is not written this way, the verse must be understood as follows: He called Jacob El; and who called him El? The God of Israel.shlomo cunin was simply saying the same thing as a gemarah and medrash, whoever is honest knows that just like you dont attack the medrash or gemara for saying such a statement, rather look in the mefarshim so too dont attack r’ shlomo cunin, (a much bigger tzadik then all your rav, and rosh yeshiva)
if you want to understand the statement, for the 4th time learn the maamer hibabtzu 5668, this sefer is learned by almost every lubavitcher (in yeshiva) so we can speak in our language, just like when we talk to eachother we say or hakalul biatzmuso, and dont need to give a 9 hour class what it means like i would need to do if i wanted a non lubavitcher to understand what im talking aboutsechel83Participantsinas chinam is hating someone for any reason besides for the following specific case:
that if one sees his friend sinning, he should hate him,
This applies only
1) to one’s companion—one’s equal—in the study of Torah and the observance of the mitzvot.
2) He has also fulfilled with him—with the sinner—the injunction, “You shall repeatedly rebuke your friend.” The word used here for “your friend” (עֲמִיתֶךָ) also indicates, as the Talmud points out, עַם שֶׁאִתְּךָ—“he who is on a par with you in the Torah and the mitzvot,” who, nevertheless, has not repented of his sin, as it is written in Sefer Charedim.
BUT as to one who is not his companion—his equal—in the Torah and the mitzvot so that (as our Sages say concerning the ignorant in general) even his deliberate transgressions are regarded as inadvertent acts, since he is unaware of the gravity of sin, nor is he on intimate terms with him,—not only is one not enjoined to hate him, on the contrary Of this situation, Hillel said, “Be one of the disciples of Aharon, loving peace and pursuing peace, loving creatures and drawing them near to the Torah.”This usage of the term “creatures” in reference to human beings means that even those who are far from G‑d’s Torah and His service, for which reason they are classified simply as “creatures”—indicating that the fact that they are G‑d’s creations is their sole virtue—even those, one must attract with strong cords of love.
FURTHERMORE , even those whom one is enjoined to hate—for they are close to him, and he has rebuked them, but they still have not repented of their sins—one is obliged to love them too.
(tanya perek 32)sechel83Participantqwerty you still never told me what daf, so i take it you dont learn anything as i thought
sechel83Participant@yankel berel
a} since when is there a difference between calling a different person g-d or yourself? am haaretz you, 2) the rebbe was referring to the previous rebbe, 3) rashbi spoke about himself, the medrash quotes yakov avinus words about himself.
b} personal gain? like what? the sicha is about asking a bracha or tikun from a tzadik,
c} no point arguing with facts, you read my mind better than me so… i guess your right on this one
d} its a mishnah in pirkai avos moreh rabach kimoreh shamayim as well as many other maamrai chazal. (i never understood how you can bring a pfoof from the fact that others do different) -
AuthorPosts