sechel83

Words of the avodas hakodesh that our ovoda is needed
דמשארז”ל וכי מה איכפת לו כו’ הוא על אדון יחיד שורש השרשים דלי’ לא איכפת לי’ כלל, ואמנם לצורך הכבוד להשפיע על הראשים העליונים לייחד ראש המחשבה בסופה כו’ צורך גמור הוא.

I realized lately that litvaks use the word kefira for anything not true, so when r shach said the rebbe is a k. He probably just meant he disagrees.
I also said it used to be common for people to call trouble maker kids sheigetz. I saw this in the book about the rogetchover, R chaim brisker called him a sheigetz.
So bh it’s nice to see that r shach wasn’t so seriously against the rebbe or chabad

I wrote names of 2 respected rabbamim
Make all the fun you want, see rambam end of hilchos tzaraas
You remember a skud landing on someones head funny, maybe it was your head and you got mixed up

Prophecy of End by Purim:
The Rebbe predicted that the war would conclude by the time of the Jewish holiday of Purim, which occurred in late February of that year.
Like I said I’m not a posek, but many rabbamim signed a psak din.

Example of the Rebbe’s nevuah is that no one will be killed from the skuds. I’m not a posek but many poskim signed that the rebbe has a din navi. Search Google for the psak din.

@qwerty. I have a better answer. None are kofrim, the rambam gives a list of people who are kofrim, he doesn’t mention either!!
You have a proof somewhere that says someone who says there is no schar and onesh for a period of time is a kofer??

basics of the sugya would be the igeres taimon of the rambam

One of the 13 ikrim is that there is nevuah, and it’s in hilchos yesofai hatorah of the rambam
So why saying that there is no nevuah today is not kefira but manis Friedman who says there is no onesh is??!!

Yankel berel about nachas, all you wrote was that it wasn’t done before. How do you know? What’s the issue?
Read the whole igeres! Don’t make fun as if there is no nevuah if you haven’t learned basics in this sugya. I don’t know which page, where I got it from – sefaria – there I no pages
I get from the gemara sotah that the rebbe can have nevuah just maybe on a lower level just like you say about RMF.

Rambam igeres taiman:
“According to the interpretation of this chronology, prophecy would be restored to Israel in the year 4976 after the creation of the world”

@yankel berel how many people were by this event of the burning?? 100?
Chabad going OTD, good one, every community has people going OTD, chabad no more than others, but that was not the point, he and others (like R shach) were concerned that the focus on the rebbe being moshiach and having our hopes up so high, can lead to people going OTD if the rebbe passes away. This did not happen.
I told you to watch early years – has all your answers

@ casual onlooker
Very nice recap
To your questions by the end, they are answered in the sicha in a footnote.
This idea of מקיפים דבינה needs a big introduction to understand what it means
In general there are different types of tzadikim, like נשמות דמה and נשמות דבן it’s not just who’s greater

“Being a Torah Jew doesn’t require one to replace rationality with voodoo logic.”
this statement is not what chassidim beleive – the perpose of existence is to turn the yesh to ayin – i have to get rid of the way i think and think the way torah says to think even if it doesn’t make sence to my limited brain
and i think this is not what toras haniglah believes either
דעת בעלי בתים היפך דעת תורה

Qwerty amazing point, now read everything else in context
The gemarah that says only 1 of 500 will be there when moshiach comes, comes after a Mishnah that says every new has a portain in the world to come, the amid before says a person is zoche to olem haha as soon as he answers amen. Etc. learn the sugya
Atzmus in a guf comes be hemshech why one can ask a rebbe for brachos and tikinum – just like the mega shim on the medrash that says Yaakov is G-d

I never wrote that Yaakov avenue is G-d litterly. I wrote you should learn the maamer הקבצו תרסח, after learning that and understanding it, you won’t have complaints on the Rebbe and R shlome cunin. They said the same things as the gemarah.
All you guys do is say well the gemarah is obviously not litterly but cunin means literally as if the rebbe runs the world and not hashem ch”v.
When Ponevitch gets likutai sichos, maybe I’ll get a Avi ezri.
Practically the chabad shul I go to, gets seforim people use, Avi ezri is a Sefer on rambam pilpulim, not pshat, and is a certain style of learning and will not be used by anyone who comes there. (I personally never met a litvak who can say over to me a full piece of Avi ezri. All chabad yeshivos (I saw) have ktzos even though he was a misnaged (maybe even more than R’ shach.) also noda bihuda and others. the rebbe brings in sichos from the Gra, (even though he made a cherem against chassidim and wrote they say a tree is G-d) as well as many other misnagedim.

just a reminder who qwerty is:
does not understand lashon kodesh or yiddish
claims he learns gemara for 7 hrs a day and spends 10s of hrs on each blatt, but i asked him a simple pshat question on the blatt he just learned and was not able to answer

I challenged the Rebbe because he rejected the Gemara which says that there is no longer Nevuah.
the rambam writes in igeres taiman that he has a mesorah from his father nevuah will return (i forgot the exact year but) around the year 5000, a little before.
ruach hakodesh is a level in nevuah see shaar hanevuah

let me ask you a simple question? do you accept everything it says in gemarah? medrashim? zohar?
do you accept rishonim? achronim? till which achron?
another question why or why not do you accpet them?

Basic summery
What ever it says in chazal, rishonim, achronim, and todays gedolim – you understand it the way you want, so you cant bring it as basis for anything
Whatever the rebbe, or any chabad rabbi says , you need to understand it litterly, so even if they quote a gemara, in gemarah its not litteral, and in cunins words its litteral.
I hope i got this correct?

@yankel berel get your eyes checked

qwerty first answer my question in brachos in the other thread – on the gemara you just learned for 10s of hours on this blatt, then ill discuss this gemara with you. it would help if you would read this gemara – the whole page then comment,
here in english:
With regard to the verse: “For I have taken you to Myself: And I will take out one of a city, and two of a family” (Jeremiah 3:14), Reish Lakish says: The meaning of this statement is as it is written, that only individuals will be spared and the rest will be destroyed. Rabbi Yoḥanan said to him: It is not satisfactory to God, their Master, that you said this about them. Rather, the merit of one from the city causes the entire city to benefit, and the merit of two from a family causes the entire family to benefit and be redeemed. Likewise, the Gemara relates that Rav Kahana sat before Rav, and sat and said: The meaning of this statement is as it is written. Rav said to him: It is not satisfactory to God, their Master, that you said this about them. Rather, the merit of one from the city causes the entire city to benefit, and the merit of two from a family causes the entire family to benefit and be redeemed.

also on that gemarathe maharal explains on that gemara of 1/300k that it means from all the jews who lived in all the generations, many died or were killed. so what will be left when moshiach comes will be 1/300k. nothing to do with only some jews being redeemed. so by techiyas hamasim the jews will multiply 300k times. because all the jews from all generations will come back

What makes berger a rabbi.
To me he seems like an idiot who tried to cause sinas chinam
Bh only some modern guys look upto him

@qwerty oh also reish lakish argues with r simai , see the gemarah you quoted, (don’t just take one line out)
This is clearly talking about moshiach
(And your splitting moshiach and olem habah is correct its not the same thing but many times like here its referring to techiyas hamasim after moshiach comes as is clearly seen from the gemarah and as those meforsbim i brought write clearly.
And its harder to be zoche to olem habah than techiyas hamasim, see likutai torah

They clearly write they are referring to עולם התחייה – read their words,
If you cant understand lashon kodesh, how on earth can you think of giving opinions on who is a gadal or not, or anything in yiddishkeit.
Go learn לשון הקודש first ,

qwerty613
To Seichel
Please give me the proofs from the Rabbis you quoted that they reject this Gemara. I don’t read original Hebrew or Yiddish sources.
so you agree your very ignorant finally
they all – ramban, alshich, arizal, emek hamelech and others – say that every jew has a share in the world to come – which they say refers to techiyas hamasim – exactly what you called the rebbe a kofer for rejecting a gemarah

@qwerty sorry i didnt see you wrote brachos 33, ill start a thread. i hope you’ll join.
“I call the Rebbe. a Kofer because he rejected open Gemaras. One such Gemara is Sanhedrin 111A in which R Simai said that most Jews won’t be redeemed by Moshiach just as most Jews who left Egypt didn’t enter the land of Canaan. The Rebbe rejected this and said that Moshiach will save every single Jew”
we went thru this gemarah before. if you spent 7 hrs learning that blatt, you would see there are other opinions, is the baal hatanya a kofer ch”v or the ramban? ויסוד לדברים אלו בדרוש רבינו הזקן ד”ה להבין ביאור ענין האבות ה”ה המרכבה (בתורת אור פ’ יתרו) ס”ג-ד, וז”ל: ענין עוה”ב שהוא ג”ע ותחה”מ ומבואר במפרשים1 וברמב”ן בשער הגמול שעיקר השכר עוה”ב הוא בתחה”מ, שמעלת תחה”מ היא יתרה מג”ע העליון. והנה בג”ע יושבין נשמות הצדיקים בלא גופות… ותחה”מ הוא שיעמדו בגופיהם… אפילו פושעי ישראל מלאים מצות כרמון ולכן כל ישראל יש להם חלק לעוה”ב בתחה”מ חוץ מאותם שמנו חכמים. עכ”ל.
what about the emek hamelech עמק המלך (בתחלתו ש’ תקוני התשובה ספ”ג) וז”ל: ועתה בנים שמעו לי יראת ד’ אלמדכם ואהבתו הק’ עמנו בני א-ל חי, למה לו כולי האי לטרוח עצמו ברשעים האלו המכעיסים אותו בכל עת ובכל רגע, ב’ תשובות בדבר התשובה הא’ כו’ אע”פ שהם רשעים גמורים כו’ ניצוצי קדושה בהם כו’ שהם נצר מטעי כו’ והיא חלק אלקה היא נצחי כו’ והנשמות הם רושם אור עצמותו וכל (אולי צ”ל “דכל”) הנופח מעצמותו הוא נופח כו’ ועוד טעם שני מעשה ידי להתפאר כו’ הק’ הוא ומעשה ידיו חיים וקיימים לעד ולעולמי עולמים ואי אפשר שתתבטל כ
medrash shmuel, alshich, rabmabn
ובמדרש שמואל ריש מס’ אבות בפי’ משנת כל ישראל כתב וז”ל: עולם הבא הנזכר כאן הוא עולם התחי’ ולא ישא אלקים את נפש הרשע עד כי ברוב הימים ימצאנה מטוהרה ואז נגנזת במחיצת הצדיקים כו’ וכן ע”ז הדרך לכל הנשמות עד שיתוקנו כולם כו’ וז”ש הכתוב ועמך כולם צדיקים כלומר בהכרח יהיו כולם צדיקים לפי שהוא ית’ חשב מחשבות לבלתי ידח ממנו נדח, עכ”ל.

ועד”ז הוא באלשיך פ’ שמיני.

ויסוד לדברי כהנ”ל הוא בליקוטי הש”ס להאריז”ל מס’ אבות, וז”ל: כל ישראל יש להם חלק לעוה”ב כו’ רק שזה יתקן עצמו בזמן מועט וזה בזמן מרובה אבל סופם הוא להמנות עם הצדיקים ומשום זה שהקב”ה כביכול מטריח את עצמו עם רשעים כאלו לתקנם כו’ ולמה כן בשביל שהם נצר מטעי שהוא נצחיי והם רושם אור עצמותו וכל הנופח מעצמו הוא נופח. עכ”ל.

ויעוין ג”כ ברמב”ן בש’ הגמול (הובאו דבריו לקמן) שכתב: הנפש שהיא עליונה אי אפשר שתהי’ בטלה ואובדת כו’.

@coffee addict. so you take the maharsha’s pshat? that does not mean that you cant say a different pshat, as he mentions himself. so i understand it the way its explained by the rashab. and why cant you find an explanation of the sicha just like you did with the gemara? (to start, the paragraph before, after, footnotes, maamarim i mentioned)