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Qwerty, you’re definitely closer to modern, than you are ultra Orthodox – Rav shach . As evident from your posts. You even seem secular
@qwerty why are you quoting Rav shach? My assumption is your from the YU community, see what Rav shach said about them and their rabbi Rabbi JB solovatchik.
Copying Yaakov Yosef A
I am aware that some גדולים criticized the Lubavitcher Rebbe. For our purposes, it doesn’t change anything. Many of the criticisms directed towards Chabad parallel criticisms leveled against Chassidus in general, when it was still a new movement. Some very big גדולי עולם called out some other very big גדולי עולם over many of the same issues (and then too, they suspected them of going further than they really did…) Be that as it may, my main point was that it isn’t OUR place to stick our little noses into מחלוקת between real גדולי עולם when we have no שייכות to being a מאן דאמר for either side.
Just to quote some of the complaints against chassidum in the time of the alter rebbe (that got him arrested (מבוא החסידות page 231)
Chassidim describe hashem with human expressions (like R feldman claims about R Manis)
I hold the chassidim are followers of shabtzai tzvi
They listen to their rebbe more than Moshe rabainu
It’s also known in the cherem the vilna gaon signed he accused chassidim of serving avodah zara.
So just like today it’s ridiculous to say these things about chassidim, so too it’s ridiculous that qwerty and others are saying the same complaints.Regarding Reb Manis Friedman, what happened to the halacha of first rebuking him privately and if he doesn’t change his ways, ONLY THEN rebuke him publicly.
I’m sure if Reb Feldman would try this, he would get clarification but he hears what he wants to, like his letter about בוראינו he obviously just misheard מורינו, probably comes from his rebbe rosh yeshiva of bnai brak@halevi
Just to point out what’s the view of Rabbi Fishelis – qwerty’s rabbi. According to ai
From the available information, it appears that Rabbi Fishelis holds a respectful view of the Lubavitcher Rebbe, Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson, and his teachings.I agree with Yaakov Yosef a. Btw I think this x chabad shlucha is not really cs, it’s fake.
Wait 2 or 3 yrs, qwerty will admit he’s wrong about 1 in 300,000 will be redeemed, about nevuah, about Manis Friedman, and all the other attacks he has.
(Following qwertys logic “why should I do Torah and mitzvos if there is no onesh”, why should I daven on Tisha beav, he believes only 1 in 300,000 Jews will be redeemed. (Btw that’s a total of 50 Jews)
I know qwerty always trys to find the bad in Jews, so even though my comment was posted after 9 av , he assumes I have an IQ like him and it would take me hrs to figure out his mistake, when actually he was the one who posted on 9 av such hateful statements!!!
My point in my last comment was to let people know not to think too much about what qwerty writes being that he’s very ignorant. (It took me some time to notice)Just to point out another example of qwertys ignorance.
On another thread (I just came across) he accused the rebbe of changing the Torah by saying that when moshiach comes the chazir will be permitted.
The rebbe just quoted what’s written in many places.
פירוש אור החיים על התורה ויקרא יא, ג.
חידושי הריטב”א קידושין מ”ט, ב. מעין זה ברבנו בחיי ויקרא יא ז
שו”ת הרדב”ז חלק ב סימן תתכ”ב.
של”ה פרשת חיי שרה אות י
תורה אור פרשת וישלח ועוד.
יפת תואר לויקרא רבה פרק יג ג.@qwerty “thousands of people read me including some very prominent rabbis”
We see clearly here that when you point at someone else he’s psychotic, you’re really looking in the mirror at yourself.I just watched Manis Friedman’s video and qwerty (Rav aharon Feldman) completely distorted it.
He says “there’s not a Jew in the world who deserves punishment” that does not mean there is no שכר עונשP.s.
I even wonder who has more faith: the heretic who cannot accept the existence of G‑d after the Holocaust, or the believer who attributes such horrors to G‑d’s appetite for punishment. The “heretic” believes that if there is a G‑d, He must be compassionate—and he cannot square the Holocaust with that belief; the “believer,” on the other hand, has lost his faith in compassion . . . The alternative may or may not be heresy, but the “retribution for sins” approach is an unbearable affront to the holy Jewish nation and their G‑d.You can search Google פסק דין שהרבי הוא נביא. One example is Rabbi Yotzchok Hershkowitz – klosenberg dayan in boro park. Very known and respected.
@qwerty how about check artscroll gemara Sanhedrin 111a on rava which brings the maharal and the yaavatz that say what rava is referring to is that the people who won’t be redeemed are the people who passed away in previous generations, and will come back by techiyas hamasim.
Tell rabbi fishelis he’s an amazing haaretz (or you’re just leing that he told you such nonsense)In פרקי גילוים (printed In שו”ת מן השמים מהדורת קוק) he says that even though the gemara says משמתו הנביאים האחרונים .. נסתלקה רוח הקודש, he brings many times where we see רוח הקודש by חכמי התלמוד, and it means that ITS NOT COMMON like it was then and brings an example that the gemara says בטלה זכוכית לבנה, and we find that it existed later
He goes on a whole אריכות, see there.More about nevuah: see דרך מצותיך from the צמח צדק:
ואנחנו נבאר זה ע”פ הפנים העמוקים שלימדו מיסוד הבעש”ט והה”מ נ”ע אשר אליו נגלו האחרים כידוע
Seems like the baal shem tov and the magid had nevuah@non political 1) there is a psak din signed by many rabbamim including non chabad rabbamim, that the rebbe is a navi. I didn’t learn the whole sugya beiyun to paskin myself
2) listen to the meaningful people podcast recently on the rebbe where he discusses it
@qwerty tell rabbi fishelis he should learn klolai has has in yad Malachi, maybe he’s a kofer. Checkmate
Contradicting a rishon is not kefira. See hakdama harambam. Besides you never gave a good answer to 1) igeres taiman -also a rishon 2) the many we find had RUACH HAKODESH after the gemara says it was נסתלק
3) please provide the source – cuz why should I believe you after you keep making things up.
Checkmate@qwerty now that you proved me wrong, you should go convince Rav Britewitz to not learn and teach the Rebbe’s Torah. Because he has influence on tons of people, (much more people than who read this thread)
@qwerty your answer about r Yochanan is completely wrong
So far you have no gemara that the rebbe contradicted!! So you have no right to call the rebbe or chabad kofrim
You keep just coming up with new attacks when you see your wrong
But as far as a generation being 20-30 yrs. What’s your source that that’s what the rebbe meant
See נצח ישראל from the maharal that a generation can be according to one opinion 70 yrs, according to another 3 generations are like one generation.
ומי שאמר שבעים שנה “כימי מלך אחד וכו'” (ישעיה כג, טו), אין הכתוב תולה צור במלך המשיח, דמאי ענין צור למלך המשיח. רק שהכתוב אומר כי תהיה נשכחת צור “כימי מלך אחד”, רוצה לומר המלך שהוא מיוחד, ויש לו המשך מלכות כראוי. ואין מי שראוי למלכות כמו מלך המשיח. ולכך אמר “כימי מלך אחד” זהו מלך המשיח.
וסוף סוף המשך המלכות שראוי למלך המשיח הוא שבעים שנה. ולפיכך אי אפשר שתהיה מלכות של משיח פחות מן שבעים שנה, שאם לא כן יהיה חסר מלכותו של משיח
וכן למאן דאמר שלשה דורות, שכך ראוי, שעד שלשה דורות נחשב כמו דור אחד, כדכתיב (בראשית כא, כג) “לי ולניני ולנכדי”, והם שלשה דורות, דהיינו הוא ובנו ובן בנו יהיה מלכותו. ואם לא כן, היה חסר מלכותו. אבל יותר מן שלשה דורות הוא מלכות אחר.
Checkmate! Now stop speaking against the Rebbe!Qwerty is just making up garbage. He knows he’s wrong. No need to continue arguing
יד רמה
. אמר רב אי מן חייא הוא אם משיח מאלו שחיין עכשיו הוא כגון רבינו הקדוש הוא שהיה חסיד וסובל חלאים ואם מן הדורות הראשונים שמתו הוא אין דוגמתו בהם אלא דניאל איש חמודות שהיה מזרע דוד והיה צדיק גמור ונידון ביסורים שהשליכוהו לגוב אריות. ויש מפרשין אם יש דוגמתו בחיים היינו רבינו הקדוש ואם דוגמא הוא למתים כגון דניאל@arso see יד רמה on the gemara (quoted in artscroll also) that כגון is דווקא.
Simply the gemara is bringing examples of people who had יסורים (and was a חסיד) – continuing the gemara right before. one who is alive, and one from the past. The gemara obviously can’t say who in the future will meet this criteria@arso and coffee addict .
The discussion here is about if saying the rebbe is moshiach is kefira, qwerty claimed it’s kefira cuz it’s against the rambam (and the gemara says if it will be from the dead it will be Daniel – arso’s addition)
Arso – in your last post you agree moshiach can be from the dead, so I guess you agree with me that it’s not kefira?Qwerty: (you had short term memory)
You said the rebbe is a kofer cuz he contradicts a gemara
1) not every jew will be redeemed only 1 in 300,000
I answered that it’s a clear gemara , Sanhedrin 111a , R Yochanan says every jew
2) nevuah won’t return till moshiach,
1) it’s not a gemara, 2) I quoted tosfos who quotes a navi in the time of rishonim, 3) the gemara says “after the last neviim , RUACH HAKODESH was נסתלק”
we see פרקי גילוים there were many who had רוח הקודש, see also שערי קדושה.
Are you saying no one since נביאים אחרונים had רוח הקודש?? Or someone who says so is rejecting a gemara and is a kofer??!!
Moshiach is here means that we are in the generation that moshiach will come, and therefore the the person in this generation who is fit to be moshiach if the generation merits will be the actual moshiach (similar to שני אלפים ימות המשיח in gemara which means it’s a time when moshiach is possible to come)
No one is delusional and says we have a bais hamikdashMore gedolim who said moshiach can be someone from the dead other than דניאל
ראה בספר בעל שם טוב על התורה, בהקדמה )קונטרס מאירת עינים( אות כג, מהספר מעשיות ומאמרים יקרים ע’ ד, 192
שהרב נחום מטשערנוביל אמר על הבעש”ט שהוא יהי’ משיח ושם מוכח שזה הי’ אחר פטירת הבעש”ט
ובספר כרם בית ישראל )רוזין סאדיגורא( ע’ קיא, שהרה”צ ר’ מנחם נחום משטפנשט אמר על אביו הרה”צ ר’ ישראל מרוזין,
שהוא יקום לתחי’ ויהי’ משיח. וראה ג”כ המבשר תורני גליון 520 ע’ יב;See even if rashi means דווקא דניאל (as I said he clearly does not, see שמו של משיח for the arichus) we have a yerushalmi, medrash, Zohar who say a different name and we have here 2 different people
@Arso, 1) you maybe right about pshat in rashi, but why do you say that’s the only pshat on the gemara. See kungres שמו של משיח will haskama from rav britewitz from אור שמח, he goes into pshat in rashi and comes out moshiach can be someone else from the dead. Also there are other rishonim who say so as we see from the following gemara it can be someone else (it’s also a medrash and Zohar)
ירושלמי ברכות פ”ב ה”ד
רבנן אמרי אהן מלכא משיחא אין [מן] חייא הוא דוד שמיה. אין [מן] דמכייא הוא דוד שמיה. אמר רבי תנחומא אנא אמרית טעמא ועושה חסד למשיחו לדוד.
The Rebbis say: This King Messiah, if he is from the living, his name is David. If he is from the dead, his name is David. Rebbi Tanḥuma said: I am declaring the reason (Ps. 18:51) “He gives kindness to His anointed, to David.’The rambam never says moshiach will come the same year as nevuah will return.
He says 2 things 1) the year 4976 2) that nevuah returning is a hakdama for moshiach.
Qwerty you still didn’t answer all the other questions, you just picked one thingMore about nevuah after the time of neviim achronim
1) גיטין פח,א תוס ד”ה ודלמה – מיהו אמר ה”ר עזרא הנביא
2) the לשון in סנהדרין דף יא, יומא דף ט, סוטא דף מח is הסתלקה רוח הקודש מישראל and never the less we see פרקי גילוים there were many who had רוח הקודש, see also שערי קדושה.
Are you saying no one since נביאים אחרונים had רוח הקודש?? Or someone who says so is rejecting a gemara and is a kofer??!!
For more on this topic see לקו”ש חלק יד page 72Qwerty so you had 2 gemaras
1) 1 in 300000 will be redeemed, I quoted THE same amud a different opinion
2) is not a gemara, you just trust Google
And for that you call us kofrim?!?!
This is checkmate (unless you don’t know how to play chess)
Anyway here is the rambam igeres taiman (for the whole thing look up yourself)
ולפי ההקש הזה והפירוש הזה תחזור הנבואה לישראל בשנת ארבעה אלפים תתקע”ו ליצירה ואין ספק שחזרת הנבואה היא הקדמת משיחI accept 100 percent pirkai avos and rambam. Just I agree with Manis that hashem takes into consideration the hardships of the times and therefore doesn’t punish us today for avairos the same way as 2000 yrs ago. I believe this is what he meant, and his videos and cut out and skipped around maybe it came out different.
I say the same thing – if moshiach is from the dead it’s the rebbe. No difference. No one in chabad says moshiach already came.Qwerty, Where does the gemara say there will be no nevuah till moshiach comes? I quoted a rambam in igeres taiman that nevuah will return BEFORE moshiach comes
Ok the gemara you quoted is Sanhedrin 111a, but on the same amud R Yochanan says that a third of the population will be redeemed which includes all JEWS and in addition even non Jews – see rashi there. There is also a second gemara there that one jew in his zchus the whole city and family will be redeemed. So bottom line saying every jew will be redeemed although it contradicts rava there but it’s perfect with R Yochanan.
We see in Sanhedrin 98b that the amoraaim said there rebbe is moshiach before he built the bais hamikdash. There is a difference between a belief or the rambam which is giving signs . Simple@qwerty so if I answer you that gemara, you’ll stop calling the rebbe a kofer and do teahuva? (It was already answered on a different thread)
@Qwerty The same argument can be used with Chabad. If they’re right so when Schneersohn comes back to life I’ll accept him. But if we’re right they have no Cheillek in Olam Habo.
Actually I say the opposite, if the rebbe is not moshiach big deal, we just made a mistake. (As far as the gemaras you claim we regect, we just learn different and at most are mistaken) You guys making fun of the rebbe is called apikorses (see gemara Sanhedrin perek chelek) which has no chelek in olem habaQwerty is a liar and keeps asking the same questions. Open up the gemara and read!!
I should follow Menachem shmais way, no point in arguing with people who reject gemaras and believe in the new testament@yankel berel
There are different options
By j we have chazal telling us the facts, you can’t argue with chazalSo I guess qwerty just admitted that he doesn’t believe in gemara. (regarding the gemaras about nevuah and every jew being redeemed, we went thru this already)
Just pointing it out. I wonder if he reform? Who am I debating with??!!במסכת סנהדרין (קז ע”ב) מסופר, כי ישו היה תלמידו של יהושע בן פרחיה[5], ופעם התארחו יחד באכסניה בעיר אלכסנדריה שבמצרים, שם אמר יהושע בן פרחיה: “כמה יפה אכסניא זו”. ענה לו ישו: “רבי, עיניה טרוטות” (כלומר: עיניה של בעלת האכסניה היו כעורות). אמר לו רבו: “רשע! בכך אתה עוסק?!” ונידהו. ישו ניסה להתקבל חזרה, אך יהושע בן פרחיה סרב לקבלו. כתוצאה מכך, זקף ישו לבנה והשתחווה לה. כשאמר לו יהושע בם פרחיה: “חזור בך!”, אמר לו ישו: “כך מקובלני ממך: כל החוטא ומחטיא את הרבים אין מספיקין בידו לעשות תשובה”. הגמרא שם מתארת אותו כמי ש”כישף והסית והדיח את ישראל”.
על מעשה זה אומרת הברייתא שם: “לעולם תהא שמאל דוחה וימין מקרבת, לא כאלישע שדחפו לגחזי בשתי ידיו, ולא כיהושע בן פרחיה שדחפו לאחד מתלמידיו בשתי ידיו”.
על אחריתו של ישו מספרת הברייתא (בבלי סנהדרין מג א): “בערב הפסח תלאוהו לישו הנוצרי, והכרוז יוצא לפניו ארבעים יום: ישו הנוצרי יוצא ליסקל על שכישף והסית והדיח את ישראל, כל מי שיודע לו זכות יבוא וילמד עליו. ולא מצאו לו זכות ותלאוהו בערב הפסח”, ואע”פ שאסור ללמד זכות על המסית[6], דינו של ישו היה שונה משום שהיה מקורב למלכות.
@yankel berel
How do I know yoshke was a masis etc
Chazal
So it’s chazal vs the new testament@Qwerty
Talk about lies.This conversation is just an argument on facts. No point continuing. Larger than life is not a good source. Look in the back where he gets the story from – one chasid -. Just a rumor.
J was put to death because he was a masis. I don’t care what it says in the new testament.
These rumors about the the Rebbe’s father and the rayatz – made up bologna btw. Check your sources.@qwerty what’s worse
1) serial child molester
2) someone who is choshed a whole group of Jews as Christians?These are just rumors.
In chabad all the Rebbe’s are the same,
Good for you guys
Keep learning the new testament@yankel berel
Why do you think differently about the rashab then you do of the rayatz? Rayatz okayed the shiduch!@yankel berel
you missed some “details” about j
he said you dont need to keep mitzvos anymore
he served avoda zara
kishuf
much more
basically was a mumar
if the only issues were what you write, then maybe i would follow him, why not?In other words, I understand R Manis Friedman as being like R Levi yotzchok of barditshuv. Being milamed zchus on yidden. Very simple. You want to understand otherwise – good for you call him whatever you want , but know you’re just looking in a mirror of yourself
Qwerty
Why don’t you call up Rabbi Manis Friedman and ask him.
I think there is schar and onesh but I agree that hashem is understanding and merciful and takes into consideration what today’s generation is going thru.Again and again same arguments
I have nothing to add.
Calling the rebbe a … Is apikorses. Making fun of a talmidim chacham is apikorses. End of story
Manis Friedman if he would be a misnaged – would be a gadol on the moetzes – fact!what would rabbi feldman say about the avodas hakodesh?
schar veonesh – i already said to say there is no schar veonesh today is like saying no nevuah – both ikrai emunah, obviously your only a kofer if you say it doesnt exist at all ever! never was never willl be!
i amagine rabbi feldman learned a lot of gemara, but when it comes to these topics, Rabbi Freidman learned much more.Question is only whether this was in his mind halachik kfira , apikorusut , or not .
If yes , then all meat shechted by habadi’s would according to him , automatically be treif, all gittin ve kidushin with habadi witnesses , invalid.
I want to see an Orthodox rabbi who will let a women married by chabad, get remarried without a get.
That’s my point you guys use leshonos very lightly