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@qwerty “thousands of people read me including some very prominent rabbis”
We see clearly here that when you point at someone else he’s psychotic, you’re really looking in the mirror at yourself.I just watched Manis Friedman’s video and qwerty (Rav aharon Feldman) completely distorted it.
He says “there’s not a Jew in the world who deserves punishment” that does not mean there is no שכר עונשP.s.
I even wonder who has more faith: the heretic who cannot accept the existence of G‑d after the Holocaust, or the believer who attributes such horrors to G‑d’s appetite for punishment. The “heretic” believes that if there is a G‑d, He must be compassionate—and he cannot square the Holocaust with that belief; the “believer,” on the other hand, has lost his faith in compassion . . . The alternative may or may not be heresy, but the “retribution for sins” approach is an unbearable affront to the holy Jewish nation and their G‑d.You can search Google פסק דין שהרבי הוא נביא. One example is Rabbi Yotzchok Hershkowitz – klosenberg dayan in boro park. Very known and respected.
@qwerty how about check artscroll gemara Sanhedrin 111a on rava which brings the maharal and the yaavatz that say what rava is referring to is that the people who won’t be redeemed are the people who passed away in previous generations, and will come back by techiyas hamasim.
Tell rabbi fishelis he’s an amazing haaretz (or you’re just leing that he told you such nonsense)In פרקי גילוים (printed In שו”ת מן השמים מהדורת קוק) he says that even though the gemara says משמתו הנביאים האחרונים .. נסתלקה רוח הקודש, he brings many times where we see רוח הקודש by חכמי התלמוד, and it means that ITS NOT COMMON like it was then and brings an example that the gemara says בטלה זכוכית לבנה, and we find that it existed later
He goes on a whole אריכות, see there.More about nevuah: see דרך מצותיך from the צמח צדק:
ואנחנו נבאר זה ע”פ הפנים העמוקים שלימדו מיסוד הבעש”ט והה”מ נ”ע אשר אליו נגלו האחרים כידוע
Seems like the baal shem tov and the magid had nevuah@non political 1) there is a psak din signed by many rabbamim including non chabad rabbamim, that the rebbe is a navi. I didn’t learn the whole sugya beiyun to paskin myself
2) listen to the meaningful people podcast recently on the rebbe where he discusses it
@qwerty tell rabbi fishelis he should learn klolai has has in yad Malachi, maybe he’s a kofer. Checkmate
Contradicting a rishon is not kefira. See hakdama harambam. Besides you never gave a good answer to 1) igeres taiman -also a rishon 2) the many we find had RUACH HAKODESH after the gemara says it was נסתלק
3) please provide the source – cuz why should I believe you after you keep making things up.
Checkmate@qwerty now that you proved me wrong, you should go convince Rav Britewitz to not learn and teach the Rebbe’s Torah. Because he has influence on tons of people, (much more people than who read this thread)
@qwerty your answer about r Yochanan is completely wrong
So far you have no gemara that the rebbe contradicted!! So you have no right to call the rebbe or chabad kofrim
You keep just coming up with new attacks when you see your wrong
But as far as a generation being 20-30 yrs. What’s your source that that’s what the rebbe meant
See נצח ישראל from the maharal that a generation can be according to one opinion 70 yrs, according to another 3 generations are like one generation.
ומי שאמר שבעים שנה “כימי מלך אחד וכו'” (ישעיה כג, טו), אין הכתוב תולה צור במלך המשיח, דמאי ענין צור למלך המשיח. רק שהכתוב אומר כי תהיה נשכחת צור “כימי מלך אחד”, רוצה לומר המלך שהוא מיוחד, ויש לו המשך מלכות כראוי. ואין מי שראוי למלכות כמו מלך המשיח. ולכך אמר “כימי מלך אחד” זהו מלך המשיח.
וסוף סוף המשך המלכות שראוי למלך המשיח הוא שבעים שנה. ולפיכך אי אפשר שתהיה מלכות של משיח פחות מן שבעים שנה, שאם לא כן יהיה חסר מלכותו של משיח
וכן למאן דאמר שלשה דורות, שכך ראוי, שעד שלשה דורות נחשב כמו דור אחד, כדכתיב (בראשית כא, כג) “לי ולניני ולנכדי”, והם שלשה דורות, דהיינו הוא ובנו ובן בנו יהיה מלכותו. ואם לא כן, היה חסר מלכותו. אבל יותר מן שלשה דורות הוא מלכות אחר.
Checkmate! Now stop speaking against the Rebbe!Qwerty is just making up garbage. He knows he’s wrong. No need to continue arguing
יד רמה
. אמר רב אי מן חייא הוא אם משיח מאלו שחיין עכשיו הוא כגון רבינו הקדוש הוא שהיה חסיד וסובל חלאים ואם מן הדורות הראשונים שמתו הוא אין דוגמתו בהם אלא דניאל איש חמודות שהיה מזרע דוד והיה צדיק גמור ונידון ביסורים שהשליכוהו לגוב אריות. ויש מפרשין אם יש דוגמתו בחיים היינו רבינו הקדוש ואם דוגמא הוא למתים כגון דניאל@arso see יד רמה on the gemara (quoted in artscroll also) that כגון is דווקא.
Simply the gemara is bringing examples of people who had יסורים (and was a חסיד) – continuing the gemara right before. one who is alive, and one from the past. The gemara obviously can’t say who in the future will meet this criteria@arso and coffee addict .
The discussion here is about if saying the rebbe is moshiach is kefira, qwerty claimed it’s kefira cuz it’s against the rambam (and the gemara says if it will be from the dead it will be Daniel – arso’s addition)
Arso – in your last post you agree moshiach can be from the dead, so I guess you agree with me that it’s not kefira?Qwerty: (you had short term memory)
You said the rebbe is a kofer cuz he contradicts a gemara
1) not every jew will be redeemed only 1 in 300,000
I answered that it’s a clear gemara , Sanhedrin 111a , R Yochanan says every jew
2) nevuah won’t return till moshiach,
1) it’s not a gemara, 2) I quoted tosfos who quotes a navi in the time of rishonim, 3) the gemara says “after the last neviim , RUACH HAKODESH was נסתלק”
we see פרקי גילוים there were many who had רוח הקודש, see also שערי קדושה.
Are you saying no one since נביאים אחרונים had רוח הקודש?? Or someone who says so is rejecting a gemara and is a kofer??!!
Moshiach is here means that we are in the generation that moshiach will come, and therefore the the person in this generation who is fit to be moshiach if the generation merits will be the actual moshiach (similar to שני אלפים ימות המשיח in gemara which means it’s a time when moshiach is possible to come)
No one is delusional and says we have a bais hamikdashMore gedolim who said moshiach can be someone from the dead other than דניאל
ראה בספר בעל שם טוב על התורה, בהקדמה )קונטרס מאירת עינים( אות כג, מהספר מעשיות ומאמרים יקרים ע’ ד, 192
שהרב נחום מטשערנוביל אמר על הבעש”ט שהוא יהי’ משיח ושם מוכח שזה הי’ אחר פטירת הבעש”ט
ובספר כרם בית ישראל )רוזין סאדיגורא( ע’ קיא, שהרה”צ ר’ מנחם נחום משטפנשט אמר על אביו הרה”צ ר’ ישראל מרוזין,
שהוא יקום לתחי’ ויהי’ משיח. וראה ג”כ המבשר תורני גליון 520 ע’ יב;See even if rashi means דווקא דניאל (as I said he clearly does not, see שמו של משיח for the arichus) we have a yerushalmi, medrash, Zohar who say a different name and we have here 2 different people
@Arso, 1) you maybe right about pshat in rashi, but why do you say that’s the only pshat on the gemara. See kungres שמו של משיח will haskama from rav britewitz from אור שמח, he goes into pshat in rashi and comes out moshiach can be someone else from the dead. Also there are other rishonim who say so as we see from the following gemara it can be someone else (it’s also a medrash and Zohar)
ירושלמי ברכות פ”ב ה”ד
רבנן אמרי אהן מלכא משיחא אין [מן] חייא הוא דוד שמיה. אין [מן] דמכייא הוא דוד שמיה. אמר רבי תנחומא אנא אמרית טעמא ועושה חסד למשיחו לדוד.
The Rebbis say: This King Messiah, if he is from the living, his name is David. If he is from the dead, his name is David. Rebbi Tanḥuma said: I am declaring the reason (Ps. 18:51) “He gives kindness to His anointed, to David.’The rambam never says moshiach will come the same year as nevuah will return.
He says 2 things 1) the year 4976 2) that nevuah returning is a hakdama for moshiach.
Qwerty you still didn’t answer all the other questions, you just picked one thingMore about nevuah after the time of neviim achronim
1) גיטין פח,א תוס ד”ה ודלמה – מיהו אמר ה”ר עזרא הנביא
2) the לשון in סנהדרין דף יא, יומא דף ט, סוטא דף מח is הסתלקה רוח הקודש מישראל and never the less we see פרקי גילוים there were many who had רוח הקודש, see also שערי קדושה.
Are you saying no one since נביאים אחרונים had רוח הקודש?? Or someone who says so is rejecting a gemara and is a kofer??!!
For more on this topic see לקו”ש חלק יד page 72Qwerty so you had 2 gemaras
1) 1 in 300000 will be redeemed, I quoted THE same amud a different opinion
2) is not a gemara, you just trust Google
And for that you call us kofrim?!?!
This is checkmate (unless you don’t know how to play chess)
Anyway here is the rambam igeres taiman (for the whole thing look up yourself)
ולפי ההקש הזה והפירוש הזה תחזור הנבואה לישראל בשנת ארבעה אלפים תתקע”ו ליצירה ואין ספק שחזרת הנבואה היא הקדמת משיחI accept 100 percent pirkai avos and rambam. Just I agree with Manis that hashem takes into consideration the hardships of the times and therefore doesn’t punish us today for avairos the same way as 2000 yrs ago. I believe this is what he meant, and his videos and cut out and skipped around maybe it came out different.
I say the same thing – if moshiach is from the dead it’s the rebbe. No difference. No one in chabad says moshiach already came.Qwerty, Where does the gemara say there will be no nevuah till moshiach comes? I quoted a rambam in igeres taiman that nevuah will return BEFORE moshiach comes
Ok the gemara you quoted is Sanhedrin 111a, but on the same amud R Yochanan says that a third of the population will be redeemed which includes all JEWS and in addition even non Jews – see rashi there. There is also a second gemara there that one jew in his zchus the whole city and family will be redeemed. So bottom line saying every jew will be redeemed although it contradicts rava there but it’s perfect with R Yochanan.
We see in Sanhedrin 98b that the amoraaim said there rebbe is moshiach before he built the bais hamikdash. There is a difference between a belief or the rambam which is giving signs . Simple@qwerty so if I answer you that gemara, you’ll stop calling the rebbe a kofer and do teahuva? (It was already answered on a different thread)
@Qwerty The same argument can be used with Chabad. If they’re right so when Schneersohn comes back to life I’ll accept him. But if we’re right they have no Cheillek in Olam Habo.
Actually I say the opposite, if the rebbe is not moshiach big deal, we just made a mistake. (As far as the gemaras you claim we regect, we just learn different and at most are mistaken) You guys making fun of the rebbe is called apikorses (see gemara Sanhedrin perek chelek) which has no chelek in olem habaQwerty is a liar and keeps asking the same questions. Open up the gemara and read!!
I should follow Menachem shmais way, no point in arguing with people who reject gemaras and believe in the new testament@yankel berel
There are different options
By j we have chazal telling us the facts, you can’t argue with chazalSo I guess qwerty just admitted that he doesn’t believe in gemara. (regarding the gemaras about nevuah and every jew being redeemed, we went thru this already)
Just pointing it out. I wonder if he reform? Who am I debating with??!!במסכת סנהדרין (קז ע”ב) מסופר, כי ישו היה תלמידו של יהושע בן פרחיה[5], ופעם התארחו יחד באכסניה בעיר אלכסנדריה שבמצרים, שם אמר יהושע בן פרחיה: “כמה יפה אכסניא זו”. ענה לו ישו: “רבי, עיניה טרוטות” (כלומר: עיניה של בעלת האכסניה היו כעורות). אמר לו רבו: “רשע! בכך אתה עוסק?!” ונידהו. ישו ניסה להתקבל חזרה, אך יהושע בן פרחיה סרב לקבלו. כתוצאה מכך, זקף ישו לבנה והשתחווה לה. כשאמר לו יהושע בם פרחיה: “חזור בך!”, אמר לו ישו: “כך מקובלני ממך: כל החוטא ומחטיא את הרבים אין מספיקין בידו לעשות תשובה”. הגמרא שם מתארת אותו כמי ש”כישף והסית והדיח את ישראל”.
על מעשה זה אומרת הברייתא שם: “לעולם תהא שמאל דוחה וימין מקרבת, לא כאלישע שדחפו לגחזי בשתי ידיו, ולא כיהושע בן פרחיה שדחפו לאחד מתלמידיו בשתי ידיו”.
על אחריתו של ישו מספרת הברייתא (בבלי סנהדרין מג א): “בערב הפסח תלאוהו לישו הנוצרי, והכרוז יוצא לפניו ארבעים יום: ישו הנוצרי יוצא ליסקל על שכישף והסית והדיח את ישראל, כל מי שיודע לו זכות יבוא וילמד עליו. ולא מצאו לו זכות ותלאוהו בערב הפסח”, ואע”פ שאסור ללמד זכות על המסית[6], דינו של ישו היה שונה משום שהיה מקורב למלכות.
@yankel berel
How do I know yoshke was a masis etc
Chazal
So it’s chazal vs the new testament@Qwerty
Talk about lies.This conversation is just an argument on facts. No point continuing. Larger than life is not a good source. Look in the back where he gets the story from – one chasid -. Just a rumor.
J was put to death because he was a masis. I don’t care what it says in the new testament.
These rumors about the the Rebbe’s father and the rayatz – made up bologna btw. Check your sources.@qwerty what’s worse
1) serial child molester
2) someone who is choshed a whole group of Jews as Christians?These are just rumors.
In chabad all the Rebbe’s are the same,
Good for you guys
Keep learning the new testament@yankel berel
Why do you think differently about the rashab then you do of the rayatz? Rayatz okayed the shiduch!@yankel berel
you missed some “details” about j
he said you dont need to keep mitzvos anymore
he served avoda zara
kishuf
much more
basically was a mumar
if the only issues were what you write, then maybe i would follow him, why not?In other words, I understand R Manis Friedman as being like R Levi yotzchok of barditshuv. Being milamed zchus on yidden. Very simple. You want to understand otherwise – good for you call him whatever you want , but know you’re just looking in a mirror of yourself
Qwerty
Why don’t you call up Rabbi Manis Friedman and ask him.
I think there is schar and onesh but I agree that hashem is understanding and merciful and takes into consideration what today’s generation is going thru.Again and again same arguments
I have nothing to add.
Calling the rebbe a … Is apikorses. Making fun of a talmidim chacham is apikorses. End of story
Manis Friedman if he would be a misnaged – would be a gadol on the moetzes – fact!what would rabbi feldman say about the avodas hakodesh?
schar veonesh – i already said to say there is no schar veonesh today is like saying no nevuah – both ikrai emunah, obviously your only a kofer if you say it doesnt exist at all ever! never was never willl be!
i amagine rabbi feldman learned a lot of gemara, but when it comes to these topics, Rabbi Freidman learned much more.Question is only whether this was in his mind halachik kfira , apikorusut , or not .
If yes , then all meat shechted by habadi’s would according to him , automatically be treif, all gittin ve kidushin with habadi witnesses , invalid.
I want to see an Orthodox rabbi who will let a women married by chabad, get remarried without a get.
That’s my point you guys use leshonos very lightlyWords of the avodas hakodesh that our ovoda is needed
דמשארז”ל וכי מה איכפת לו כו’ הוא על אדון יחיד שורש השרשים דלי’ לא איכפת לי’ כלל, ואמנם לצורך הכבוד להשפיע על הראשים העליונים לייחד ראש המחשבה בסופה כו’ צורך גמור הוא.Qwerty
I guess all these people who have bumper stickers “hashem needs every yid” are kofrim?
Rather it depends how you understand it. Hashem doesn’t need us for him to exist – that’s what the rambam says. There is nothing wrong with saying that hashem needs us to fulfill Torah and mitzvosI realized lately that litvaks use the word kefira for anything not true, so when r shach said the rebbe is a k. He probably just meant he disagrees.
I also said it used to be common for people to call trouble maker kids sheigetz. I saw this in the book about the rogetchover, R chaim brisker called him a sheigetz.
So bh it’s nice to see that r shach wasn’t so seriously against the rebbe or chabadI wrote names of 2 respected rabbamim
Make all the fun you want, see rambam end of hilchos tzaraas
You remember a skud landing on someones head funny, maybe it was your head and you got mixed upThe rebbe never said no one will be injured, everything the rebbe said is written down and if it was on weekday it was recorded.
(I heard the kfar chabad wrote that, but it was a mistake)
And ok maybe that’s not a nevuah so what???
Maybe it’s nevuah but a different level! So.. point??
(I believe these rabbamim know better than me and you)I admit that there is not only one opinion on how many people were killed and how they were killed. There are different counts by different sources.
Anyway I don’t even know for sure that the rebbe said no one will be killed, definitely the rebbe said it’s the safest place and encouraged people to go and not leave. What exactly was the prophecy maybe about Purim but many rabbamim signed a psak din, they didn’t write what they are referring too so I don’t know for sure.
Examples of non lubavitcher – dayan of klosenberg, rav of rachmenstrivk. Many more. Available onlineProphecy of End by Purim:
The Rebbe predicted that the war would conclude by the time of the Jewish holiday of Purim, which occurred in late February of that year.
Like I said I’m not a posek, but many rabbamim signed a psak din.You can do a Google search and see 1) it’s not only chabad rabbamim proclaimed he’s a navi 2) NO ONE was killed from a skud (someone was killed during that time NOT from a skud. FACTS. Do a simple search