Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Following a rebbe and not challenging.
There are different types of following
1) pshat in Torah, one is encouraged to ask questions and not accept pshat if he doesn’t understand or argues but one needs to realize that (by a real rebbe and talmid) his rebbe knows much more than him (if not find a new rebbe). So i.e. if my rebbe – who is baki is shas and rishonim – says a pshat in gemarah, if I don’t understand it I shouldn’t make fun of his pshat just because In my limited knowledge it doesn’t Make sences, i should ask the rebbe my questions and he will explain to me – that’s the way of learning (and in lubavitch the rebbe encouraged people to ask questions on the sichos – they were printed in הערות וביאורים, and the rebbe would discuss the questions the next farbrengen. And many of the footnotes in likutai sichos come from questions the chassidim asked and the rebbe answered.)
2) following advice in physical matters, there is a letter in Tanya about this, and different mesorahs about it.@damoshe:
“Sechel: the idea that a person can’t get to higher levels on their own without a Rebbe lifting them up in preposterous. It’s one of the main issues I have with chassidus.”
1) this idea is mentioned in Tanya perek 14 by the end, so just putting it clean that’s it’s an old idea.
2) I see here and before too, that you make fun of teachings of the baal hatanya or the baal shem tov, you really think you have better comments sences than them?!
If you would say you follow the opinion of I.e. nefesh hachaim that one should not focus as much as chassidim on kavana, hachanos, or not contemplating yichuda ilaah rather only yichuda tataa (as he writes in שער ב), ok, I understand you,
But how can you – by yourself – decide that teachings of the baal shem tov or the baal hatanya (who I’m sure you know were baki in kol hatorah kula – niglah, and nistar) is preposterous?!?
I think that’s called an apikores!!Damoshe has a good point. There is a mitzvah to connect to talmidai chachimim. The rambam writes to eat and drink with them do business with them marry into their family etc. The reason is to learn from their ways.
Chassidus takes this further that thru connecting to a talmidai chacham (which chassidus explains he is a talmid – student – of chacha diatzilus, – which there shines אא”ס) the student – chassid can receive from the tzadik his lofty spiritual levels יחודא עילאה. Which a neshama of בי”ע can not reach on their own. See Torah or parshas yisro, Tanya perek 2, perek 35, היכל הבעל שם טוב vol ?From the first Mishnah in brachos read simply, one would think that when he reads krias Shima by maariv he fullfils the mitzvah. Rashi comes and says that “we” who daven early are not fulfilling the mitzvah rather we are yotze with krias shma sheal hamita. So why do we read shma by maariv, he brings a yerushalmi that explains – to stand up to davening – shmoneh esre – from divrai Torah. Tosfos has many questions on Rashi and explains different.
Point being is that everyone realizes that you can’t conclude a halacha from learning a Mishnah simply.
How much more so with chassidus which is penimius hatorah,
(Those who think chassidus is just a dress code or a “matzav” to feel a part of, Does it make sense to say the baal hatanya or kedushas Levi or the hundreds of the other chavraya kadisha went to the mazritcher magid to learn a dress code??!!)@chaim87
I agree with a lot of what you’re saying,
What I disagree about is the “fact/rumer” that litvaks are more “chassidish” today then the chassidim.
It could be true that they are more machmir, but that’s not chassidus, and it could be true that some chassidim do less chumros or hidurim (or even violate halacha ch”v)
Chumros and hidurim coming from fear of gehenom and wanting to get gan Eden is not chassidus
Using schar and onesh to keep oneself from doing something forbidden is definitely good, to do chumros – some chassidishe seforim say better not do the chumros .
My point is that chassidus is NOT judged based on ones actions.
A person can keep every halacha with all the chumros and have never learned chassidus, never went to a rebbe etc. Chassidus came to the world to awaken deeper levels of the neshama. Different chassidus had different ways to do that but ALL branches of chassidus stressed on being connected to the rebbe,
If one doesn’t have that, he may be a binuni according to Tanya (or a tzadik in the comen language) but he’s not more “chassidish”
If one is connected to a tzadik and workiun the ways of chassidus according to his level that’s chassidus. (He may be a rasha and may get gehenom)Some examples for the baal shem tov about doing something good with a self motive or feeling
כשמתענה אדם אפילו משבת לשבת, ויהיה לו פניה אפילו קטנה, שיאמר בלבו שהוא עושה דבר גדול שעינה את עצמו כ”כ הרבה, ויזדכך מאד בזה, זה התענית בא לסט”א. רק יחשוב בלבו, מה מעשי נחשבים נגד עבודת המלאכים שעבודתם בתמידות להש”י, ואני טפה סרוחה וסופי לעפר.המהלך בדרך יחידי <ושונה ומפסיק ממשנתו כו’, קשה דהל”ל ומפסיק ממשנתו והוה ידעינן דהיה שונה, עוד קשה מעלה עליו הכתוב ולא מפרש איזה כתוב.
וי”ל> הפי’, <כי ה>הולך בדרך הישר, ואפילו הכי הוא יחידי שאינו דבוק בהשי”ת, ושונה ומפסיק ממשנתו, ר”ל מפסיק א”ע מהש”י מחמת משנתו, דהיינו שבאה לו גדלות והתפארות מחמת משנתו <שסובר שהוא משנתו שלו>, ואומר מה נאה אילן זה, ועל עצמו אומר כן בלבו, כמ”ש כי האדם עץ השדה, <ואומר דהוא אלנא די רבא ותקיף>, ומה נאה ניר זה, כמ”ש נירו לכם ניר, <פי’ שאומר שמכין לעצמו חלק לעוה”ב ע”י משנתו>, מעלה עליו הכתוב <פי’ כתוב שנ’ תמים תהיה עם ה’ אלקיך, פי’ אפי’ כשתעסוק בתורה שנאמר בה תורת ה’ תמימה, וז”ש תמים תהיה, אפילו בעסק התורה תהיה עם ה’ אלקיך, ולא תימא הלא התורה ממילא נקרא תורת ה’, וז”ש מעלה עליו הכתוב הזה, שכולל כל התורה>, כאלו מתחייב בנפשו.Here we see the chassidus approach of what is kedusha – bitul – not feeling self, and what is kelipa – feeling self.
This is explained in Tanya at length (see I.e. perek 6 and 35)@chaim 87
If I find the sefer, I’ll look at it iyh.
My point is – that by ALL chassidim the chumros and hidurim came as a RESULT of love and fear of hashem – which came from davening in the ways of chassidus, hishkashrus to the rebbe .
It was not the first step. This was like you said the litvishe derech. (I think the chazon ish said, that chumros can BRING to love and fear of hashem)
about shmiras enayim it also talks a drop about it in chabad seforim, (קונטרס העבודה פרק ב) but the focus is to think about hashem, and understand the importance of קבלת עול – which BRINGS to guarding ALL ones senses. And also the long term success in shmiras enayim depends on constantly feeling connected to hashem – see Tanya התשובה, לקותי תורה I forget which maamer, look in the מפתח,
Screaming about how bad it is can actually lead to falling into it ח”ו see below in kitzur sh”u
This that you mention that this was and is the derech of other chassidus, you need to see exactly how often it was mentioned and in the context (like I said you can find it in chabad seforim also just not often) and how they write to deal with it
Btw in kitzur shulchan aruch he writes also how to be careful:הרוצה לשמור את עצמו מחטא זה, ישמור את פיו מניבול פה, משקרים, מרכילות, מלשון הרע ומליצנות, וכן ישמור את אזנו משמוע דברים כאלו, גם יהא זהיר לקיים נדריו, ולא ירבה בדאגה. וגם יהא זהיר מהרהורים רעים. וקודם שהולך לישן, יעסוק בתורה, או יאמר ד’ מזמורי תהלים הראשונים. ויזהר שלא לישן בחדר יחידי.
@chaim87
Litvaks mesorah is from the gra? All litvaks I know never learned the first 3 shaarim of nefesh hachaim, at most they learned shaarim 4. They didn’t either learn any kabala seforim from the gra. The gra writes that you should educate even children not to serve hashem for reward – gan Eden and punishment – gehenom.
Today’s “yeshivish” Jews have no connection to the ways of the gra,
From nefesh hachaim shaar 3 perek 8
מטעם שודאי ראוי להאדם הישר חכם לבב הקבוע כל הימים בת”ת ומצות אשר נאמנה את אל רוחו לידע מציאות זה הענין הנורא דרך כלל שאדון יחיד ית”ש מלא את כל ואין עוד מלבדו ית’ להלהיב מזה טוהר קדושת מחשבתו לעבודת התפלה לכוין לבו באימה ויראה ורתת למקום הוא מקומו של עולם. (ומקומו של עולם הוא הוא כוונת ענין הצמצום. והוא מבואר כנ”ל)
Could be litvaks daven long but the focus is on the simple meaning of the words, the focus of chassidim is in addition to contemplate before davening on גדלות הקל – אחדות ה’ and to arouse love for hashem. And not to focus on our needs during davening as the Zohar writes against that (brought also in nefesh hachaim shaar 2)
Chassidus came to awaken Jews to serve hashem with feelings of love and fear, all the actions – hidurim – came out from it,
Chitzonius vs pnimius,
Today could be many chassidim don’t work on פנימיות and not either חיצוניות, or only chitzonius. and could be many litvaks work on חיצוניות – being careful in halacha, chumros etc. That’s not chassidus, chassidus is penimius.
Shtreimal is not even a chassidus thing,
Kedusha is chassidus the focus was on davening which automatically kept a person away from the opposite of kedusha – see likutai Torah, from Zohar. Screaming about shmiras enayim is not the derech of chassidus, and does not accomplish anything.Rambam hilchos krias shma perek 1
Prisha siman 89רמב״ם הלכות קריאת שמע פרק א
הלכה יג
עריכה
הקורא אחר שלוש שעות ביום, אפילו היה אנוס – לא יצא ידי חובת קריאת שמע בעונתו, אלא הרי הוא כקורא בתורה. ומברך לפניה ולאחריה כל היום, אפילו איחר וקרא אחר שלוש שעותIt’s not only modern Orthodox going to chassidus. Tons of litvaks are learning chassidus, tons of chassidim who didn’t learn chassidus many years ago, started learning chassidus,
This is because people feel empty in life, and chassidus gives meaning. and also this is what the Zohar says that thru learning Zohar we will go out of galus.
(Chassidus explains many ideas in Zohar)
This is what moshiach told the baal shem tov too. לכשיפוצו מעינותיך חוצה .Birchos krias shma the rambam holds one can say them the whole day.
Shmoneh esre – פרישה
והוא דחוק ורחוק בעיני לומר דלאחר חצות יהא דינו כברכה לבטלה מדאמר בגמרא כל היום מצלי ואזיל ויהבי ליה שכר תפילה דרחמי וגם ר’ יוחנן אמר הלואי שיתפלל אדם כל היום כולו ונהי דלהרי”ף איירי בתורת נדבה ולרב האי איירי באם יכול לחדש בה וכמו שכתב רבינו בסימן ק”ז (עמ’ שצז – שצח) מכל מקום הא איכא תקנה על ידי נדבה להרי”ף ו[ל]הרא”ש משום גזירה דילמא לא יכוין הוא דאסור הא מדינא מותר לכן נ”ל פשוט כמו שכתב ב”י באוקימתא קמייתא דעד חצות שכתב רבינו לאו דוקא וגם הרי”ף והרא”ש לא הזכירו חצות ולא נקט חצות אלא משום דסמיך דמחצות ואילך הגיע זמן מנחה ואז יש לו דין אחר וכמו שכתבתי גם כן בדרישה וסבירא ליה להרמב”ם ורבינו דאפילו עבר במזיד ולא התפלל מתפלל כל היום ושכר תפלה דרחמי מכל מקום אית ליה אלא שבאם טעה ולא התפלל קודם חצות מתפלל אחר חצות אחר תפילת מנחה ואז יש לו שכר גדול גם לתפלת שחרית כאילו התפלל בזמנו כי מאחר שאז גם כן זמן תפילה והוא עסק בתפילה והתפלל מנחה בזמנו יש לו לתפילת שחרית אז תשלומין ושכר כאילו התפלל אותו בשחרית בזמנו מאחר שטעה או אנוס ולא התפלל שחרית ומשום הכי הזכירו הגמרא והפוסקים לשון תשלומין בזה שאם לא היה לו שכר תפילה בזמנו לא היו אומרים שמשלים את התפילה הקדומה לה. אבל אם עבר במזיד ולא התפלל שחרית בזמנה תו לא הוי לה תשלומין אחר תפילת מנחה ומכל מקום אמרו דיש לו שכר תפילה דרחמי וכמו שכתב רבינו בסימן ק”ח (עמ’ תג) והיינו בשכר תפילה שלא בזמנה ודוק היטב ותמצא חילוק זה שהוא אמת ונכון על פי הדין:
Tanya discussion I don’t even remember how we got into it. And what the argument is about.I think people need to go back to עין יעקב, learn אגדה, that was always the way till daf yomi became so easy with an art scroll or shiur that a simple person can convince himelf he’s learning something when in fact he misses most of it .
If he would go to an עין יעקב shiur he would gain much more.
I would advise, don’t learn daf yomi before you completed learning shas properly, than you can use daf yomi for a chazara system.
Or if you have at least an hour a day to learn without any distractions then learn daf yomi (bidochak) and spend another at least 30 min chazering the sugya you’re holding by.
I don’t understand why people learn shas before they even learn chumash Rashi, (tanach I guess there are different views, but one who is learning shas, can also spend שליש learning tanach, (and the Baal hatanya writes after he finishes tanach he should use that שליש to learn Kabalah)
Anyway thru learning rambam one fullfills the mitzvah of learning kol hatorah kulah, witch one does not thrue learning shas (cuz many halachos are not from bavli)@Yankel berel you’re Tanya comment I didn’t understand,
Birchos krias shma and shmone esre – see Mishnah brurah where he says it’s a bracha livatala, he writes according to many poskim, the other poskim hold it’s not, see there biur halacha. (As if chabad is the only ones who daven after chatzos, I think the only people who don’t is litvaks, (probably cuz they are too lazy to daven, so they use this excuse)See Shulchan aruch yore deah 159,3 it’s asur to lend money to a Jew who was born to parents serving a”z. Mother serves a”z, married a non jew. He’s a tinok shenishba.
See מרגניתא טבא brought in chafetz chaim back of אהבת חסד, he writes since no one today knows how to rebuke properly, and you can only hate a rasha after you rebukes him, comes out you can NOT hate anyone.“After he says that one is obligated to simultaneously love and hate someone who is a sinner , Tanya goes on to ask on himself if so whats pshat in tahlit sin’ah seneitim which is quoted in masehta shabbat as requiring unqualified hate ?
Whereupon Tanya answers that this pasuk and maamar hazal are talking about an apikores who one is required to hate unreservedly.”
Complete distortion. He is explaining dovid hamelechs behavior, not giving guidance to people who can every jew who does something different than them an apikores or min.
Even if you want to follow dovid hamelechs ways, it’s only for minim and apikorsim, go open up a shulchan aruch and he what classifies as that, and again the chafetz chaim says I doesn’t apply to today’s Jews, as well as the rambam and chazon ish .@avira: interesting r’shlomo zalman didint want to offend someone he considered an apikores? so instead he was “chonef” him??
ואמרו רבותינו על עניין אגריפס שהיה קורא בתורה, וכשהגיע לפסוק זה (דברים יז טו): “לא תוכל לתת עליך איש נכרי”, זלגו עיניו דמעות, ואמרו לו “אחינו אתה”, (סוטה מא.): “באותה שעה נתחייבו שונאיהם של ישראל כליה, שחינפו לו לאגריפס”.
see at length שערי תשובה – כת החנפים@always. i did not understand your comment. but btw all over gemara it quotes a mishnah or braisa from a whole mesechta, now most people can understand rambam like the rambam himself writes in his hakdama, i just wrote, even if someone dosent understand a halacha or a perek, he’s not lost for the next week as in a long sugya in gemara.
needless to say one should learn gemara, but not everyone can learn a blat a day properly.
from the introduction of the rambam to mishnah torah:
At this time, we have been beset by additional difficulties, everyone feels [financial] pressure, the wisdom of our Sages has become lost, and the comprehension of our men of understanding has become hidden. Therefore, those explanations, laws, and replies which the Geonim composed and considered to be fully explained material have become difficult to grasp in our age, and only a select few comprehend these matters in the proper way. Needless to say, [there is confusion] with regard to the Talmud itself – both the Jerusalem and Babylonian Talmuds – the Sifra, the Sifre, and the Tosefta, for they require a breadth of knowledge, a spirit of wisdom, and much time, for appreciating the proper path regarding what is permitted and forbidden, and the other laws of the Torah.
Therefore, I girded my loins – I, Moses, the son of Maimon, of Spain. I relied upon the Rock, blessed be He. I contemplated all these texts and sought to compose [a work which would include the conclusions] derived from all these texts regarding the forbidden and the permitted, the impure and the pure, and the remainder of the Torah’s laws, all in clear and concise terms, so that the entire Oral Law could be organized in each person’s mouth without questions or objections. Instead of [arguments], this one claiming such and another such, [this text will allow for] clear and correct statements based on the judgments that result from all the texts and explanations mentioned above, from the days of Rabbenu Hakadosh until the present.
[This will make it possible] for all the laws to be revealed to both those of lesser stature and those of greater stature, regarding every single mitzvah, and also all the practices that were ordained by the Sages and the Prophets. To summarize: [The intent of this text is] that a person will not need another text at all with regard to any Jewish law. Rather, this text will be a compilation of the entire Oral Law, including also the ordinances, customs, and decrees that were enacted from the time of Moses, our teacher, until the completion of the Talmud, as were explained by the Geonim in the texts they composed after the Talmud. Therefore, I have called this text, Mishneh Torah [“the second to the Torah,” with the intent that] a person should first study the Written Law, and then study this text and comprehend the entire Oral Law from it, without having to study any other text between the two.avira, your the ignorent one here. you misinterpreted dira bitachtonim, if you would learn perek 36 tanya where its explained, it dosent say anything about hashem lacking anything chas vishalom. on the contrary, if you want to understand why this is the ultimite reasin and came before “ki chafetz chesed hu” learn the first maamer in 5666, its explained there at length,
anyway someone who cant understand tanya or rambam, can definatly not keep track of a long complicated sugya in gemara, just by learning day yomi an hour (or less) a day.
my point way that its a easier learning system. and even if you dont understand everything, you can go further in rambamto avira : copy paste from Do you know anyone, notably a rov, that shares your opinion on this?
i think people who are looking for a daily limud should learn chitas – chumash – the parsha. say tehiilim (monthly cycle) and learn tanya (yearly cycle) and rambam. these are not too difficult for almost everyone. also tanya is a great sefer to get a proper hashkafa of yiddishkiet
in chabad chassidus its explained that lag beomer being the yom hilulah of rashbi, on that day he taught many things he never taught before that day, (because) that the final day of a righteous person’s earthly life marks the point at which all their deeds, teachings and work achieve their culminating perfection and the zenith of their impact upon our lives. So each Lag BaOmer, we celebrate Rabbi Shimon’s life and the revelation of the esoteric soul of Torah.
penimius hatorah is a revelation of penemius atik – simple put, its a revelation of hashem’s light – or ein sof, (niglah is the torah the way it comes down to this world) when that light is revealed there are many supernatural things, thats why rashbi did wonders simply by saying torah (unlike other tanaim needed to daven) thats why on such a day, the rebbes – the neshama of rashbi and teachers of his torah – were able to give brachos for children in a sprcial way. see more about this in all the maamarim of lag beomerread the bestseller book Toward a Meaningful Life Book by Simon Jacobson
מ”מ
שו”ת צמח צדק או”ח סימן ג
פסקי תשובות סימן פט
I didn’t write the מ”מ before because I was writing from memory and did not have a chance to check it up
Piskai tshuvos I can’t find the Sefer to reference the exact page.When chazal say כל מי שהוא פטור מדבר ועושהו נקרא הדיוט.
It means idiot, הדיוט comes from a Greek word. Here we see this idea from the rambam, he says שוטה and quotes this חז”ל about הדיוטחסיד שוטה – אמרו בתלמוד שעניינו ההגזמה בזהירות ובדקדוק עד שנמאס בעיני בני אדם ועושה מעשים שאינו חייב בהם, וכאילו אמר שוטה בחסידותו. ואמרו בגמרא שבת ירושלמי: כל מי שהוא פטור מדבר ועושהו נקרא הדיוט.
— פירוש המשניות סוטה פרק ג’, משנה ג
Kosher and happy pesachOpen up the tzemach tzedek and learn something for your life. he goes thrue shitos over there about saying a bracha when you are not obligated in it. many hold its not an issue cuz you are prasing hashem.
In piskai tshuvos he clearly brings other rebbe’s who davened after chatzos. we have a mesorah, not with reb meir shapiros pshat also these rebbes davened late also shabbos, so obviously they didn’t do it becasue of reb meir shapiros pshat
The alter rebbe is shulchan aruch paskens you can not daven shachris after chatzos, but in his igros he paskens different he says tefillin is מן התורה not like in shulchan aruch where he says it’s דרבנן, see shulchan aruch harav siman 106 how that can allow one to daven at any time.
we are allowed to accept reb chayims pshat in rambam about kavana, (if its pshat in rambam then its shitas harambam, anyway this idea of davening without kavana is not davening is not only from reb chayim) and not brisks minhagim,
@arso As to being a hedyot (not an idiot!) when sleeping in the sukkah when you are pattur, the same is true of eating in the sukkah when it is raining, yet Lubavichers do so, and with a berachah!
good point! so? (thats one of the questions of the sicha, why was the frierdiker rebbe so machmir about drinking water even when raining, and not sleeping) go learn the sicha. eating when raining comes from the baal shem tov.@avirah. We don’t need to follow the steipler or brisk
It’s not a bracha livatala, that’s am haaratzus, see the Mishnah brurah, he writes it’s a bracha livatala according to many poskim, others argue. See tzemach tzedek I mentioned before
The rambam says someone can daven a tefillah nedavah anytime, the raaved writes he doesn’t need to add anything.
See piskai tshuvos he brings many rebbe’s who davened late, even though he says it’s not for the public, many disagree, and it has its base in halacha as mentioned, and just like those rebbe’s did – amshanov, klosenberg rebbe’s daven shachris after chatzos, the Baal hatanya did too. And in chabad it’s the mesorah since then much has been written how it’s ok.@arso regarding Sukkah you can open a shulchan aruch see the magen Abraham and Taz, one of them say that someone who can’t set up his bed comfortably in a Sukkah is puter and if he sleeps even if he’s patur – he’s a hadyot – idiot in English. The magen Abraham says that there is a heter for married men never to sleep in the Sukkah.
Now the question of sicha is a different question, you can see there at length, I don’t want you to misunderstand it from me like you did from your relatives, (could be your relatives misquoted it) but the amazing chidush is not the rebbe’s it’s from the rogetshover
Anyway the fact that you know some people who slept in the Sukkah is like saying you know some chabadskers who keep or don’t keep tznius, just cuz some people do something it doesn’t make it minhag chabad.
The frierdiker rebbe is the best source of history we have. Chas vishalom to speak against a tzadik yesod olem. Besides for the fact that he didn’t sleep in a Sukkah, and he was born 5640 less than 70 yrs from the alter rebbes passing 5573. He heard history from hIs grandmother. And there were many chassidim alive both by the alter rebbe and the frierdiker rebbe.
I didn’t say the rambam or tzemach tzedek says it’s ok to daven shachris lichatchila after chatzos, If you check up those sources you’ll see it’s not a bracha livatala. Open up the tzemach tzedek and learn something for your life.
In piskai tshuvos he clearly brings other rebbe’s who davened after chatzos.
The alter rebbe is shulchan aruch paskens you can not daven shachris after chatzos, but in his igros he paskens different he says tefillin is מן התורה not like in shulchan aruch where he says it’s דרבנן,
It’s a long arichus, do your research.
Of course after you guys have nother to answer about tefillin and tznius etc etc, you pick something else.
Why do you guys attack chabad based on what you heard from your relatives? Even thought of first seeing the sicha inside?@Yankel berel what one chabad fellow answered you does not represent chabads view.
Now for me I don’t doubt what the rebbe says just like any Talmud should not be doubting his teacher. If one thinks he has a kashya he should ask his teacher, or try to figure out the answer other ways , but not dismiss dis teacher – who knows endless times more than him (the rebbe) just because in the students mind he has a kashe. It just means he didn’t correctly understand either the place he has the kasha from or the teacher.What is the mekor for hbad people to daven shm’essrei shaharit on shabbat afternoon . Why are they not brahot levatala
One source is today’s rambam hilchos tefillah see the ראבד
See also צמח צדק הלכות ציצית about if women can make a bracha on a mitzvah they are not obligated (it’s a long teshuvah and talks about making brachos if one is not obligated)
Many more sources and it’s not only chabad, look in piskai tshuvos,One of the reasons for davening late is because by davening a person needs to have kavanah he is standing before hashem and talking to him (reb chaim brisker writes that if not, it’s not davening at all) that’s why in shulchan aruch it says you need to forget about everything before you daven, and many other hachanos stated there.
Who says one should skip all the hachanos, and just say words with minimal kavanah in order to beet chatzos? It can be not even considered davening.
It actually says in shulchan aruch if one can’t have kavanah he should not davenUjm when I go on mivtzoim I tell him it’s a commandment fro. Hashem, there is letters back and forth about this from rav hunter to the rebbe, you can see for yourself. Anyway as I mentioned מבצע תפילין was indorced by all the gedolim. Rav Moshe etc.
Avirah. The modern yeshivish also consider themselves yeshivish, and who cares, what are labels?
The rebbe said everyone should be involved in shlichus, you don’t need to where a frak to go on shlichus, there are shluchim with bekeshes and shtraimels.
As I said before the alter rebbe said chassidus is for every jew. You can learn chassidus, learn Chitas and rambam, do mivtzoim, go to the ohel, go to 770, and not consider yourself chabad, you can also do none of the above and daven nusach achkenas, and consider yourself chabad. I won’t have an issue, nor does the rebbe or anyone else.
I guess according to you the yeshivish are very concerned about their image, so anyone who doesn’t fit their box they label them modern, in chabad we don’t care .
Btw visiting the yeshiva world news and writing on this coffee room, is against all the litvish gedolim and rabbonim,Sorry mistake . It was rav chaim shmulevitz (printed in hapardes 5728) also the gerer rebbe wrote a letter there.
So typical of you guys, I wrote there was a letter from agudas harabbanim of usa and Canada. A letter from Reb Moshe encouraging all the mivtzoim in 5738, and you guys found one mistake I made.
Ok I made a mistake. I admit.
Yated naaman printed tons of progeganda against chabad i.e. misquoting sichos (which can be looked up today, take the articles and look up the sichos) and based on that showing how chabad doesn’t hold of certain halachos.
(And btw they write that שלמות הארץ even though the rebbe based it on a halacha in shulchan aruch siman שכט, really it’s just ציונות, nice pshat, but anyone who learns the sichos knows the rebbe was against ציונות, there are many sichos about it, there is a Sefer מענת חכם explaining chabads shita etc,,
Another famous thing you quote is about Sukkah the hater is were mitztayer that were not mitztayer that were not mitztayer,
I think it comes from the yated.
In truth the rebbe says only once מצטער.)
(And the sicha is only to explain how Kabalah and halacha can fit together, not that based on this we don’t sleep in the suckah, learn the sicha inside. Chabad didn’t sleep in the suckah since the alter rebbe, didn’t eat shalosh seudos either. The rebbe just came to explain how it fits with halacha. (You see in the alter rebbes shulchan aruch many times how he’s מלמד זכות on a minhag)Arso tefillin on Jews. The agudas harabbanim of usa and Canada wrote a letter encouraging מבצע תפילין, there is also a separate letter from Reb mosh feinsten supporting all the rebbes mivtzoim. Search Google and you can find them.
(Why it wasn’t done before, 1) many places were anti semitic or at least anti encouraging non religious Jews to practice similari to why Jews didn’t encourage non Jews to keep Sheva mitzvos. 2) a lot of the unreligious Jews many yrs ago were anti religious not like today who just grew up non frum. 3) I think you could find in history a concep of putting tefillin on non frum Jews (definitely from the Baal shem tov, and I think from the סמג, I need to check)
Anyway all the gedolim supported it besides the satmer rebbe. Reb yeruchem from the mir wrote a letter in support.
Somehow ponovitch and satmer had success thru their massive advertising campaigns to convince dumb people who are too stupid to research facts, that all the gedolim were always against chabad or at least since the rebbe or the frierdiker rebbe.@arso now that you know that when you go to your relatives you may see something not tznius, did you stop going?
I’m not sure exactly the halachos, but the Gemara in b”b says that someone who passes a non tznius place, when he has a different way to go, even if he doesn’t look is a rasha.
If you don’t need to go somewhere, you’re not allowed to go there if there is non tznius women, I’m not sure exactly the pratim, you should ask your rav, (not just go and write about it on tyw, being over לא תתורו and לשון הרע,)Arso being mekarev yidden. See keser shem tov, see seforim hakdoahim – full of it.
See specifically the Sefer pokeach ivrim from the mitiler rebbe. How he instucts a Baal tshuvah how to act, and see the hakdama which has the story behind it that the alter rebbe – Baal hatanya told a big Talmud chacham to become a wagon driver, and that’s how he ended up being mikarev this yid (who was married to a non Jew)
I agree it was less commen being that there were much less non frum Jews.
And according to you it’s new, so…. Internet it also new, shaitels are also new, yeshiva movement is also new, brisker derech halimud is also new,
Tznius comments – nothing to add, as I said the same isur applys to staring at a finger of a women as any other part of her. Torah gave us halachos, and also teaches how to enforce them, when their was a Sanhedrin they killed for many aviros, gave malkos for many. Today we don’t have a Sanhedrin.
Lubavitcher rabbonim have their way of dealing with it (as far as I know, every summer they right about it in the halachos for the summer that comes out) they teach about it in education.
We way do different than others. Btw someone’s comment that less than a tefach of hair is ok, maybe reb Moshe held that way but everyone else argues. Chabad holds that even a drop of hair is an issue, and that’s why we have shaitels. There is mekoros in chazal that the yetzer hara is not in the shaitels – hair not connected to the body. (See שלחן מנחם). So maybe others hold different but our way is halachakly based. (Those who hold long shaitels are ok, I’m not saying all chabad rabbonim hold that way)
We can’t enforce things the way we feel. Many from the older generation thought to educate their kids a certain way – very strict and harsh, and today many see the outcome of those good intentions. Same thing with telling off people who are not tznius, you can search the internet and see some of the otd satmers who speak about it.Ujm : how do you know the intention of the Jew putting on tefillin? Anyway as long as a Jew has kavanah that he is doing a mitzvah – commandment of hashem he fulfills the mitzvah (see shulchan aruch)
Every mitzvah connects a Jew with a everlasting connection to hashem – Tanya perek 22. And mitzvah goreres mitzvah as we see thousands of Jews started putting on tefillin every day, keeping shabbos, kosher, (becoming “frum”) as a result of one time tefillin.
@arso how you you know where the shmiras enayim is better or worse ? And as mentioned before anyone who doesn’t keep all the “takanos” of the yeshivish rabbonim, is modern, so if you want, you can say the same thing in chabad. Anyone who doesn’t keep the letters of the badatz of crown heights or eretz yisroel (which includes strict guidelines on tznius) call them modern! Issue solved? Now your happy.@avira
litvaks” don’t wear lace top shaitels. Modern, baalabatish people do it because they want it to look as though they’re not wearing a shaitel. All the litvishe poskim clearly ruled that they’re assur.
Ok so the problem was already taken care of in chabad, the badatz already put out letters what’s asur and what’s mutar.
As far as not calling them chabad, chabad in the first place is not a sect of Jews, chabad chassidus is for everyone, so there are no guidelines to be considered chabad, and you get nothing by being chabad. You don’t need to sign up to be chabad. No one needs to know your chabad. Done.
Just like no one has authority to tell someone he’s not Jewish cuz he’s not keeping a certain halacha (even a mumar lihachis, only hashem can decide, hashem didn’t put a gadol in charge to tell people “your not Jewish cuz your a mamar liavoda Zara” or the like .
So stop looking for issues in others and focus on yourself, if you fixed yourself, go be mikarev other yidden, if you don’t hold of arvus, for sure don’t write about bad things others do (cuz your whole accuse is to keep people away from chabad, if you don’t hold of arvus, you have no reason)Arso and avira, maybe you guys should write a Sefer about what’s alluring and what’s not,
Just because you have machshavos asuros, doesn’t mean the guy in the street does.
Maybe if you would have תלמוד תורה עם דרך ארץ it would be משכחת עוןArso, kol yisroel aravim, make up your mind, does it apply or not, if yes, go put on tefillin with yidden (why tefillin yes tell them not to put tattoos too, but why would he listen, tefillin is a one time mitzvah that connects a Jew with a yichud nitzchi to hashem, also הוקשה כל התורה כולה לתפילין, )
If it doesn’t apply so what do you care about others keeping tznius,
So what does it mean according to you?
No other rabbaim sent shluchim? The Baal shem tov himself traveled to be mikarev Jews, and sent shluchim, so did all the rebbes. If anything how it’s only chabad, many yrs ago it was every rebbe going around himself and sending shluchim to be mikarev Jews. It was maybe a bit different cuz most Jews in those times were just simple and ignorent and needed chizuk, to be taught what to do, but even then they deal with people totally off as seen in all the seforim.
Avira so basically any litvaks who doesn’t live up to all the standards you call modern balabatish, so all you want from chabad is to do the same thing ? To call these modern chabad ok, what did you gain? Some lashon hara? You didn’t solve any issue, that’s called narssasisim, to just care about my image, and no one in “my image” should make me look bad.
Alluring – everyone has different taste and evident from the different styles. So like I wrote, tell your wife and the frum world to dress like Arabs – to be less alluring.“כל המסתכל באצבע קטנה של אשה, כאילו מסתכל במקום התורף(הערווה)” (תלמוד בבלי, מסכת ברכות דף כד
Point being that it sounds like you and other people feel that for example the שוק being exposed causes men to sin, which I don’t argue with, but even walking on the street between 100% tznius women, there is a נסיון of שמירת עינים.
The rambam writes in hilchos teshuvah that someone should not say “what’s so bad about staring at a women, did I get close to her, I didn’t do any avaira, etc.”
So a man has his responsibility to gaurd his eyes even not looking at a women’s face or finger, reb Moshe has a tshuvah that if a men can’t control himself he shouldn’t go to work, (he doesn’t write just to continue looking at women, and complain about it on the yeshiva world)
Also another point: the Arabs basically dress in a way that no man would look at them, yidden don’t do that even though if Jewish women would all dress that way men would have much less of a nisaon, christians also are careful with lusting after women and are much more leinyent than halacha.
So yiddishkeit lihavdil has halachos, it’s not just what you feel and make up.
Another point is that in alot of communitys chabad and I think litvaks too, shmiras enayim was not spoken about much in public. One of the reasons for this is and stated in Zohar and brought in likutai Torah, is that a person looks at women when he’s empty of a connection to hashem, so we focus on davening and that takes care of the issue. If a person is empty inside , you can have all the filters and live in kiryas yoel, you’ll still be doing aviros with lustGeneral comment on this tznius discussion: what exactly do you non chababakers propose? That anyone who is not 100% tznius should be banned from crown heights? Or from entering a shul? Enforced by police?
Which other shul or community has such a thing?
Growing up chabad, many of my friends were sons of baalai tshuvah, their mothers and sisters kept tznius 100%, but when they first came to a pesach Seder or shul, they did not, you can’t put shaitels for everything to put on when they come to shul, and although the shuls try to encourage people to dress modest, 1) people coming by the beginning don’t understand all the halachos of tznius, 2) (as far as I know) we don’t hold of enforcement of not letting someone In who is dressed not tznius 1) she’s on the women side so it’s not an issue for men davening 2) we see how such people slowly become more and more frum (besides for the fact that every mitzvah is important to hashem as explained In Tanya. Like I mentioned before.
There are 613 mitzvos in the Torah, if a person is not ready to keep all, he or she should definitely keep what he can and מצוה גוררת מצוה,
If we shut the doors to anyone who doesn’t dress 100% tznius, then those women will leave the community totally (as happens all over in other communitys), so I guess you hold it’s better so that it won’t effect the “frum” but we hold different. If you bring a proof from דברי חז”ל that your way is correct, I can try to prove our way.
I just think that next time you kick out a girl from shul who is not dressed tzniusdik, tell she that chabad will welcome her, or you can put on the sign “don’t come into our shul untznius, if you need a shul go to chabad.”Arso the rambam clearly writes we need to teach goyim to keep the שבע מצוות בני נח,
Oh so you agree כל ישראל ערבים, so do you go to not frum yidden and do mitzvos with them תפילין, give them מצה, or only after they were short sheitels and long skirts?
Btw do you have an issue with the “litvaks” who were lace top shaitels that dosen cover all the hair or the tichels that don’t either? Or only chabad with the long shaitels which are much more tzniusdik halachakly?@yankel berel about gimatria of 770 and tzarfat:
It should be noted that the sicha about 770 is 20 pages long, there is a footnote about 770 being the gimatria of bais moshiach. The main explanation is based on a gemarah in megillah, see there at length. A gimatria can’t by itself proove anything but as explained in Tanya shaar hayichud veemuna that everything in the world gets it’s life from the עשרה מאמרים, either directly or thru צירופי אותיות or גימטריות so a gimatria could be used so show a connection after you have a proof.
The sicha is in Sefer hasichos תשנב page 465-485.
And what’s your issue with tzarfat exactly? (The sicha is in 5752 ויצא or וישלח I think)Arso. No orthodox rav who is aware of the comments you posted over here would accept your Sefer. Accepting a Sefer (especially when it’s recorded on video) is showing respect to the author,
You can see the videos on the internet anash or col websites.
Just pointing out that contrary to some who said that these people are against the rebbe and chabad, they accepted a Seder from him and said good things.
So you can continue to believe rumers or accept the fact that today no gedolim are against chabad. Done! נשתכחה תורת המתנגדים.recently Rabbi Chay Amar, shliach to Golden Beach, Florida, met with ten leading Litvish and Sephardic rabbonim across Eretz Yisroel, presenting with them the set of the Rebbe’s commentaries on Rambam. Rabbi Meir Mazuz, Rabbi Shlomo Yehuda Be’eri (the “Yenukah”), Rabbi Kadosh, Rabbi Avraham Elkayam, Rabbi Yitzchak Shaul Kanievsky son of Rav Chaim Kanievsky, Rabbi Mordechai Shmuel Edelstein, a nephew of the late Rav Gershon Edelstein,,
Avira you controdicted yourself, does he write it’s Torah or not? I’m not trying to attack him (even though if the Rebbe said something similar it would be very different)
I’m just saying that since he held it’s not the mitzvah of Talmud Torah he didn’t learn it. The chazon ish – prove to me he learned Kabalah! According to Avi ezri he could have learned kol hatorah kula without learning kabala.
Yankel berel and if not? Was there ever an internet asifa or a asifa about shmiras enayim?The chazon ish learned Kabalah, to point out in avi ezri, r.s. writes that Kabalah is not Torah. In the introduction of the 4th edition.
I have no clue I he learned Kabalah or not, but he doesn’t bring it in his seforim, so why would I think he did? He was also against learning chassidus.
Some base their yiddishkeit off rumers, the fact that the rebbe learned Kabalah, and was the most knolagable in it, well just open up Seder hamaamarim, or listen to a maamer. I don’t have to go to rumers for this.@arso “all Jewish women were automatically tzniusdig”. Could be but how do you know it was so important? 2) shulchan aruch talks about every halacha even those that everyone always kept.
Yankel berel, billboards is a new idea, radio and internet is also. So in the time of Gemara they obviously didn’t use billboards. 2) do you also have an issue with the siyum hashas in a stadium?! Totally new! What about advertising the siyum hashas or daf yomi shiurim on billboards and newspapers – totally new.
It’s interesting how 40 yrs ago the misnagdim claimed that chabad has such a focus on the rebbe – pictures, videos etc, today they do the same with rav chaim kanievski z”l – there are tons of pictures of everything he didHow do you define “superior”
Yidden are one body, some are the head, some are the feet, but the head needs the feet, without them it can’t walk. See Tanya perek 2,30,32.
We need to respect kohanim because they were chosen to live a higher life, entirely devoted to serve hashem, the rambam writes (end of Seder zrayim) that any yid can elevate himself to live a life like kohanim separate from mondaine things and entirely devoted to serve hashem@yankel berel , I didn’t make it up, the arizal did. So you can question the arizal, I told you my answer, if you don’t like it, then …
It’s according to your logic, one of the complaints on chabad saying the rebbe is moshiach, is that it’s not the mesorah, it’s a new thing, I claim it was always done as mentioned in gemarah Sanhedrin,
Just like you argue with that, I argue that tznius was never a focus, my proof it the fact that in shulchan aruch there is no halachos how a women needs to dress (all there is is siman 3 which is for men also, and no details about how to dress).
Good shabbos