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I’m just a lowly am haaretz and really should not be sticking my nose into such learned discussions. However, this forum being what it is just begs for an am haaretz like me to do just that. So, in response to those who state outright or strongly imply there is an absolute issur for females to learn torah she bal peh why was there womens seating at the siyum hashas, didn’t they violate this issur by their attendance at the siyum as well as the haschalas hashas? At the very least, why weren’t they asked to leave during those portions of the evening? Were the organizers in violation of lifnei iver by selling them a seat?
always someone looking to beat the system.
I’m not sure I understand this thread. While certainly not universal, in many, many homes the wife/mother always sites at the head of the table. right across from the husband/father who sits at the other head.
I agree with Sam2. I had the same thought when I first read this thread before shabbos and quite frankly, the insinuation is disgusting. So he isn’t the most learned of men, or the most yeshivish of men, doesn’t wear a black hat or white shirt and he doesn’t roll his raishes. However, the money he spreads to the numerous torah institutions and causes, enables thousands (if not tens of thousands)of people to become the most learned of men and afford the outer trappings that being “yeshivish” demands . It should also be pointed out he was given an honor because of what he does with his money, not because of his torah scholarship. This thread represents the abolute worst kind in the jewish bloggesphere, anonymous potshots by ignorant people at rabbonim and other community notables.
Like training to be a suicide bomber?
Curiosity, you know they weren’t “real” xtians 🙂
Coffe. And they haven’t been back.
But seriously, who cares what foolishness those people want to believe, let them. It is only a problem when you see them engaged with a jew who through sheer ignorance, will buy every word they are told. And then, focue on and engage the jew.
Missionaries know there are jews who can wipe the floor with them, its why you never see them in front of BMG or any other yeshiva. They also know the vast overwhelming majority of jews are simply ignorant as it relates to judaism and its beliefs, it is why they specifically target them. Use your energy reaching out to an ignorant jew instead of satisfying your desire to “wipe the floor” with a missionary.
Missionaries are the symptom. Ignorance is the problem. Fight the ignorance and and the missionaries ceases to be a problem.
The truth is both sides have to consider each other. Yes, it is true organizations need money and must fundraise, however, they must do it with seichel. If they contract out to a call center, they should be sure they don’t engage a firm that uses tactics that browbeat and try to shame and humiliate people into giving a donation (you don’t want to help feed poor starving orphans?!!?) or otherwise use harrasment or annoying tactics. Those solicited on the other hand must keep in mind that the caller is trying to reach you when you might be home and available to speak with them. When do you expect them to call, when you are at work? Would you give them your cell phone or work phone and ask them to call you there? Remember, you answered the phone, if it is a bad time, don’t answer it, let it go to voicemail, tell your kids who answer the phone, you are not available to come to the phone, don’t be upset with the caller because you interrupted what you were doing and answered the phone!once on the phone, there is no reason to treat the caller like a disease carrying rat.
So, the question is not, how to stop people from soliciting tzedaka, rather, how to deal with those who do so in a manner not befiting a respectable organization. When such a call is received, one is not obligated to respond positively to the solicitation, but one must respond like a mentch.
The reason they keep calling is 1) they need money, 2) their available pool of potential donors is limited, should they start calling southern baptists or members of the PAL? 3) lists get sold and resold to the various organizations and more often than not, the same firm does the calling and is using the same list over and over and 4) with robo dialing and technology, they can dial hundreds and hundreds of numbers an hour with only a few people manning the phones, so even a small response rate can result in a positive campaign and lastly, often the dead air at the end of the phone is not a solicitation at all, but rather a computer logging the time(s) of day you pick up the phone so that when they really do want to call you, they can be reasonably sure you are home and will pick up.