Abraham Wieder, mayor of Kiryas Joel, New York, wrote a letter last week to President Barack Obama, praising his “noble efforts” to stop the “senseless bloodshed” in the Middle East.
The letter was written in reaction to the anti-Obama rhetoric of some religious pro-settler organizations, which have become increasingly vocal in recent weeks as the Obama administration continues to push the Israeli government to curb settlement growth in the West Bank as a prerequisite for a peace settlement.
Wieder’s letter reads in part, “Life is Judaism’s most precious commodity; its preservation and the prevention of bloodshed are its more central tenet. When life is in jeopardy all commandments that guide Jewish life must be set aside in order to preserve human life. My heart therefore aches over the endless loss of innocent life just to hold on to lands inhabited by one’s enemies. I therefore deeply respect and support you and pray that divine providence guides your every move.
“Some Israeli politicians resist relinquishing any part of the holy land, claiming religious prohibitions. This is wholly fallacious! In fact, after the destruction of Israel in 69 CE, Jews were commanded to await divine redemption and prohibited from conquering the land. To this day Jews yearn and pray for the divinely inspired return to Jerusalem… The modern State of Israel stands in contravention of the Almighty’s prohibition. Its effort to cloak itself in religion as a means of continuing the contravention of the Almighty is laughable if it weren’t so sad.”
“This important letter comes at a time when many Jews in our community are upset over the militant Zionist groups who appear to be representing Orthodox Jews,” said Rabbi Dovid Shlome Eckstein, a rabbi representing the organization True Torah Jews and a close associate of Mr. Wieder. “Our mayor is doing his job in expressing our sentiments, and we hope the President gets the message.”
(Source: PR NewsWire)
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71 Responses
When is his flight to Iran?
Well, he is right (according to Torah, logic, economics, etc.). If ruling Eretz Yisrael was more important than Torah, why haven’t the gedolim tossed their gemaras and picked up uzis (or whatever they use now, I’ve been in galus a while) and start shooting? Why did gedolim for centuries emphasize Torah and Mitsvos instead of martial arts?
But conquering others and bossing them around is so much fund. And without the Arabs, the Israeli Jews (including some for whom “Jews” needs to be in quotation marks, or with an asterick) would end up fighting each other.
And it is interesting that he is an elected leader, rather than a self-proclaimed one.
Where is his Sechel? You don’t have to agree to the state of Israel or be a Zionist, He is putting all of us here in EY in a state of danger with this letter. All the concessions that were made to the Arabs caused serious bloodshed.
Therefor if he is speaking in the name of Torah true Jews and is trying to represent Orthodox Jewry than he should reevaluate this letter, He is busy with How important are lives that we do everything to preserve it, and with one letter he could be doing just the opposite. Yerachem Hashem
Dear KJ Mayor Hypocrite,
Thank you for sticking your nose where it doesnt belong. The President, a RADICAL who FOLLOWS RADICALS and HAS FOLLOWED RADICALS such as r’shoyim like Saul Alinsky all his life is sure to love you. Who knows, maybe he’ll give KJ more money in his next Porkulus Bill? Tzi a brucha zul es nisht kimin!
Why did you forget to mention that yidishkeit is also PRO-LIFE and against “preservation and the prevention of bloodshed” when it comes to abortion (BABY KILLING) which Obama is FOR? He even supports killing a baby born alive from a “botched” abortion! Why doesn’t that bother you or doesn’t that go along with your agenda?
I will also ask you the same thing I ask everyone else of your kind (those who open their mouths clearly without thinking), there are KNH many Satmar Chasidim in EY, do you REALLY think things would be better for any of them if things were the way you seem to want them? If you answered in the affirmative, you need a head examination pronto.
Most of us know or should I say understand, that the current govt in the M’dina is NOT what is supposed to happen in the long run.
Your letter to the President did not help a bit.
He is yes an elected leader, akuperma, but he is a politician. Monroe will be getting millions and millions of dollars for their main health center. I don’t think this was done altruisticly.
Maybe Abraham Wieder doesn’t have a son learning in Israel like I do. I worry about the Iranians nuking Israel. Obama has already told the Israelis that he will not help them when and if they decide to bomb Iran. I think this was done more because of politics.
Shame on him.
Hey, Wieder, why don’t you invite Obama to stop the senseless sinas chinam and infighting in Kiryas Yoel and Williamsburg? Is it because you don’t want to risk asking a goy who reeks of sinas Yisroel to act in the interests of Yidden? Oh.
one problem this picture is for sure not of his nose, so complain to the person you to took this picutre, maybe your own.
Rabbi weider Mayor of Kiryas Yoel is a great person.
and he will not say anything and of course not write a letter before he is sure with his opinion.
Rabbi weider keep-up.
He wont go in Gehaynom for his letter, but you will for making horrible fun of a human.
Chacham Shoteh!!! The state of Israel is loaded with flaws, but to write to a president that is already working to weaken our flawed state, is to put the lives of countless Jews in significantly greater danger!!! Hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of shomrai mitzvot Jews, as well as millions of tinokos she’nishbe’u are living in Israel. Because the government is pathetic, is this “tzadik” prepared to take upon himself the blame for their blood being shed!!! With “friends like you “Mister Mayor” who needs goyish anti-semites!!!
This man made a HUGE chillul Hashem and should be put in cherem!!
I guess R’Sheinberg, The Bostoner Rebbe, The Chernobyl Rebbe, R’Chaim Kanievsky, R’Shmuel Auerbach shlita , are all “militant zionists”
What nerve!!!
To think that a Jew would say that we should give up land!!! This man is not frum AT ALL!!!
The article says a lot about the author.
The choice of picture says a lot about Yeshiva World News editor.
So does Neturai Karta really not speak for Satmer as previous Satmar ads proclaim or does Kiryas Joel not speak for Satmer? Sounds like Neturai Karta in Kiryas Joel clothing. YWN editors, I agree with you, he should keep his nose and his letters in KJ.
He should be placed in Chairim. A disgrace to Jews and to Hashem.
to all pepole who complain to the rabbis letter.
let me tell you again.
You might not like what RABBI WEIDER SHA’LITA writes but he knows what to write and he only writes with a daas torah.
he is a good man.
I think that someone should write a letter to Obama explaining that Kiryas Yoel is actually an Israeli settlement (an extension of the Kiryat Yoel moshav in Israel) and they shouldn’t be allowed to expand or build any longer.
Not sure you will publish this. If the OU President, Stephen J. Savitsky would make a statement critisizing the President would you then too headline it “Mr. Savitsky, Pres. of O.U. sticks his nose into mideast peace efforts” ?
Bet you won’t!
hi mayor . good day its good to see your nose in the news again.i just a few questions for you.hope you dont mind BLOOD SHED!!!!!!???? is their any were in the jewish world were there is more blood shed then in your village? mabey you forgot..!!! have you ever heard from bnei yoel ? when your people trew stones on a rabbi, burned yeled with kimperturins and babys in it? was it then muter becouse blood shed for the rabbi is muter? do you have a answer for me ?oh and by the way, dosnt your village resemble the same as a midinah ? what about your school district?
“the anti-Obama rhetoric of some religious pro-settler organizations”
The majority of the Republican party, business leaders, Christians, and non religious Jewish voters are FEED UP with OBAMA’s condescension of American values while licking up to Moslem leaders. Have you ever heard of the President of the US bowing down in front of the King of Saudi? “I am your brother”, said in Cairo.
Mayor Abraham, your facts are inaccurate which is not a new phenomenon for those advocating a personal agenda.
I hope this guy’s letter is given the place of kavod it deserves… on the bottom of obama’s kids’ birdcage.
I understand where Mr. Wiedewr is coming from. He is a student of The Tzaddik Rav Joel Teitelbaum, ZT”L, who considered Zionism a modern form of Shmad and an obstacle to the coming of Moshiach.
However, the letter should simply have taken exception to the extreme rhetoric and attacks by right-wing Zionist groups on the President, instead of, inadvetently, giving aid and comfort to the people in the State Department who don’t care about the security of the Jews in Israel.
I completely support Reb Wieder. I hope his letter reaches the President.
It is a lie of emasurable Chutzpa for him to write as if the Israeli’s are jsut killing people without a good reason – believing the lies of the UN and AP.
I guess the holy hate for Zionism turned into plain Sinaas Achim, to the point that they are unable to see any good.
dear mr wieder,
there is an old rule by the yidden it goes as follows:
not all that is thought should be spoken
not all that is spoken should be written
and not all that is written should be read
Kol Hakuved Mr. Mayor
Should these good acts be Mekarev the Geuleh
#22 This was the DAAS TORAH of all Gedoilem zy`u
To “mn” #27 – I don’t what s’forim YOU’ve been reading, but going to a goyish leader to complain about other Jews, and to create devisiveness in klal Yisrael is what DELAYS the ge’ula, NOT brings it closer!!!
# 26 good point
even if the satmar rabbis shita is right this kind of behavior is wrong
Dear Mr. Mayer
Would you allow all citizens of Israel to settle in “kiryas joel” so Israel could give the land back to the arabs? Sure not!!! So therefore don’t encourage president Obama that its o.k.
to do so, he does not need your advice, he has Mr. Emmanuel.
oy- 17 b’tammuz- sinaas chinam- yidden achdut! i thought when the goyim go over the shvua- when they terrorize us- we are no longer bound to constrain ourselves – hishtadlus and tefila -no??
RABBI WEIDER: YOU ARE THE BEST!! Chazak Vamotz
Dear Editor:
I have no qualms with you opposition to the sentiments expressed in Mr. Wieder’s letter. Both sides of the issue have Gedolei Yisroel of past and present generations to rely on and to quote.
For you to depict Mr. Wieder in such a vile way for quoting the sefer “Vayoel Moshe” is way beneath you. The photo accompanying this article is reminiscent of an era in the not-so-distant past when our forefathers’ facial features were propagandized in the every same manner in the effort to dehumanize them.
Differences of opinion not withstanding, that vile photo shouldn’t find a home in “Yeshiva World”!
Right or Wrong, thats not the question here.
What bothers me is, why when chabad went to Washington to protest against Obamas policis, the was no headline in YWN about sticking in a nose??
I am sorry, but this letter is a true chillul Hashem. There might be some validity to it, but to give the President more leverage to pressure Israel. Especially when not all Gedolim agree with this point of view! There are Gedolim that live here, should their lives be put in danger?? They obviously don’t feel it is wrong to live here. The Satmar Rebbe ZTL was a daas yachid. He would be rolling in his grave to see his chassid do such a thing! Satmar isn’t the voice of the entire world Jewry. There are other G-d fearing Jews besides for them.
ari [35],
Which Gadol B’Yisroel approves writing to the president about fellow Jews as murderers?????????
It is quite sad to think that after numerous attempts to give away our land to our enemies and the bloodshed it has led to, that any clear thinking individual would still espouse to the idea that appeasing the Arabs will save Jewish lives. The only time our enemies have lived peacefully with us is when we are strong and stand up for our beliefs – not when we cowtow to a misguided world who values their oil more than their morals and principles.
That is why this notion that giving up more of our G-d given land will lead to peace with our cousins is totally absurd and has been proven time and again.
Letters from people like Mayor Wieder only lead to more Jewish lives being lost. Whatever your views on the Jews of today living in Israel, it is absolutely reprehensible for observant Jews to be endangering other Jewish lives and that is what statements like Mayor Wieder cause.
If the illiterate lo yitzlach’s who are posting repeatedly in support of this fool want to make themselves useful, they can identify the “daas Torah” and “gedolim” they claim support the idiotic letter he wrote.
dont take it seriously its just about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
even [36] and all the rest
What’s the equation? To protest against hostility to fellow Jews is appropriate, and always was, but writing a letter to PUT DOWN and depict fellow yidden as murderers is totally uncalled for!!!
to #40
if you want to know who is the daas torah that Rabbi Weider is presenting its so simple, just open the GEMORA at Masactes Kasibos at the the end Daf 112-113 and you will find the daas torah. you are not fighting here with Rabbi Weider and not with the Va’yoel Moshe. you are fighting with the ga’morah. and I’m sure none of you learn thr Daf Ha’yomi because you would see it their.
where is his GOVT PROGRAM????
To #43:
If you are quoting me gemorrahs on an issue that contemporary gedolim deal with and don’t agree on, you’re not only illiterate, you’re a shoiteh. But, at least you’ve made it clear that there really is no “daas torah” behind Wieder, so thanks.
To #43
Oh! so the Gadol is now any one wants to read a Gemara one way or another…
The Gemara there doesn’t say ANYTHING about what this Rasha did!
Which Gadol said that in the last war Israel killed one extra Palastenian? Just because the early Zionists shouldn’t have made the Medina dosn’t mean that they can’t defend themselves, and as of now no one could tell all the yidden there to simply ‘move out’… So you guys are just good old Sinaas Chinam
And then to even write it to a Menuval President, who embraces Sonei Yisroel?!?!
Do you learn also Mesilas Yeshorim along with your Daf Yomi?
To #43,
And just to clarify further, you don’t mean Ksubos 112-113, but 111, which talks about that we can’t concer Eretz Yisroel bu force and we can’t rebel agaist the Goyim.
But if a bunch of Goyim are coming to your block to kill you do you think it’s Ossur for you to kill them first? is that called rebelling agaist the Golus? – of course not! right now that’s what we’ are dealing with.
Sometimes people with a strong sense of holding on to the old traditions, tend to forget that the situation does change. Hashem gives every Dor new Gedolim for that reason.
To #23 Mr Breslauer.
Make up your mind. If you agree to Rabbi/Mr Weider’s shitos/shtuyos, then do it 100%. In KJ you would not be allowed to sit next to your wife in the bus! (For the uninformed, see http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/mehadrin-buses-too-much-for-me)
Before you screem on me, because I made you awair about a GEMORAH, please note and count when where more pepole killed in isreal before year 1948 or after I think you know the anwser,
plus the fact who alowed yiden to keep Shabos and tza’nios the palastein arabs or the reforomed zionist.
I think you know the anwser by facts. and if you will look in the gemorah its says the anwser.
anyway lets not fight lets be mispalel that no jew shall be killed or hurt not by an arab and not by a zionist police or youngster.
To #19
You sign your user name as ‘KJ Resident’. Obviously trying to bring some validity to your opinion. But by reading your remarks it becomes crystal clear that you are no KJ resident…
You keep bringing up old stories about fighting that use to go on in KJ. But as we all know that all stories have different versions to it, and the further away you are the bigger it is blown up. so I would bet that you probably never been to KJ altogether.
So you ask a question: “Is their any were in the jewish world were there is more blood shed then in your village?”
As a REAL KJ resident myself, I can clearly tell you that from all your stories about KJ fighting. If you are trying to dig them up in order to trash Mayor Wieder, go ahead and good luck.
But what you don’t realize is, you’re essentially trashing yourself. First of all you should know the facts, and none of these incidents where as serious as presumed by the folks from the outside. and none of them can be categorized as ‘BLOOD SHED’!!!!!
1. You wrote: “When your people trew stones on a rabbi”
When you write “your people” it sounds like you’re implying that the mayor personally sent those Bochurim….
Oh and BTW, did any of the stones reached the rabbi? Do you recall if there was any bleeding at that incident? I certainly don’t think so.
2. You wrote: “Burned yeled with kimperturins and babys in it” Do you happen to have the count of how many kimperturins and babys were burned at the time. Because that would definitely define “BLOOD SHED” but I ask you to get the facts straight.
I will not even respond to your “village resemble midinah” and “school district” comments, because they appear to be comical and you are entitled to display your sense of humor…
Moshe1,
Again you are getting off th point at hand – that’s what happens without Gedolim.
You are right that creating the Medinah is wrong, but right now you have about 3,000,000 yidden living there (most who were drawn there because of it’s Kedusha – but that’s not important for the point), and as I wrote no one with any Seichel says the have to all pick up and move, so why bring in an old ‘bren – Kano’us’ when it doesn’t apply? – onless that Kanous is just sweet and jusy, and hard to give up…
I hate Zionism just as much as you, believe me, but not every yid who taday calls himself a Zionist is really deeply representing Zionism and deservs to be killed.
And what this Rasha did, is against the Torah and any ‘Daas Torah’, even R’ Yoilish Z”l wouldn’t have approved of it (I read a velt about him), and such an attitude could lead to the same low that Zionism does.
{42} to say that he is wrong, thats one thig. But tt say that he is sticking in a nose, thats my wonder. Why when Chabad traveled to Wash. that was no such headline????
Now, to all those auguring that giving back land would cause more blood, let me clarify you one point.
Recently at protests in Israel the message that was heard from orthodox Jews was that, ERETZ YISROEL IS OURS AND THE TORAH FORBIDS HANDING IT OVER TO THE ARABS, this message was heard over and over, these words where posted on the billboards etc. and so was the message from chabad in Washington, there was no mention about reducing blood, no sign off concern about humans, the only issue was handing over land to Arabs, and that the Torah forbids that.
What Mr. Wieder will hopefully achieve with his letter is to notify the president that those people are wrong! The position of the Torah has zero in contrast with his middle east peace efforts. He took NO position in HOW to solve the crisis, whether to actually give back land or not.
Satmar never took a position nor to praise any side of peace act. We all know that giving back E”Y to Arabs can be dangerous. Our Rabbi Shlite continuously states the following “We cant say anything about the crisis there. If the land will be overpowered by the Arabs we are in danger begashmiyos, and if the land would stay at by Israelis we are in danger beruchniyos. The only thing we can do is to pray to Hashem that he should solve the crisis without causing harm to anyone. He can do everything even if we see no way out”.
He adds, “Communism in Russia ended peacefully, even no one believed it will happen so, and so can Hashem do with Eretz Yisroel too.”
And now to Mr. Yeshaiva World, I can understand that parts of Klal yisroel dosent support Satmar and its Shita, but for you to take a position in this conflict was a very silly act. Sorry.
As a KJ resident I question Weider’s motive. What does he hope to gain by expressing support for a President who is increasingly behaving in a way that is so totally biased against E”Y? Weider does nothing without the approval of the Rebbe of Kiryas Yoel – Reb Aron. Are they pandering to Obama with the hope of getting money as a reward?
Yes, the Satmar Rebbe zt”l was against the medina, but he was more against any action that would jeapordize our fellow yidden in E”Y.
The Rebbe of Williamsburg – Reb Zalmen Leib- came out very strongly last year against Neture Karte and their behavior. This has nothing to do with the shitta, but everything to do with the provocation of anti-Semitism.
By the way, anybody who witnessed the burning of Yeled Shashuim and the rescue (barely) of the mothers and babies will never forget that scene. I was there!! Not only was this arson, but the well had been deliberately turned off so that there was no water with which to put out the fire.
Don’t believe for one minute that the terrorism in KJ has disappeared! “KJ resident” is absolutely correct about the stone-throwing at rebbes, and even at the Satmar Rebetzin a”h. In all these years no one in KJ (including the KY rebbe) has ever gotten up to condemn this terrible behavior.
It is truly a shanda!
Thank You Mr. Mayor, Keep up!
{22} Once again, you wrote that satmar ruv z`l “considered” Zionism a modern form of Shmad,
This was not just his thought, this is a fact (have you ever been in Israel?)
Regarding the people in the state department that you scare they don’t care about our brothers in Israel
As history shows us, you should rather be afraid from the Israeli government who don’t care for our life. And not the USA Goverment who could be considered as a מלכות של חסד
And regarding the “land” itself, ALL Gedolem and Poskim was by the opinion that it is אסור to have a land before ביאת המשיח.
* JUDAISM IS NOT ZIONISM *
To put Madoff`s nose for Rabbi Wieder who provides help for hundreds of disabled and special children, who are coming from around the world, to Kiryas Joel, is considered disgrace and shame for the editor,and if you have the “Midah of Anovoh”,you can still take it off your site.
America is not Iran
Supporting the USA President has nothing to do with netireh karteh.
ודרשו את שלום העיר….
#59, Are you saying that Gedolim like R’ Elyashiv, R’ Shteineman , R’ Kanievsky, R’Scheinberg dont’ know what Judaism is??
I guess you don’t know that in the TORAH it is written in Devarim, Perek 12, Pasuk 29 that it is a mitzva to live in EY..
Please don’t state that ppl living in EY are not practicing Judaism. That is totally out of line. Especially since the Satmar Rebbe also lived in EY for a time!
a pity he didnwt ask Obamma to give back meah sharim I wonder what type of treatment the Palestians would give them when they start burning bins
to # 64
Rabbi weider was just saying to the president the true, that E.Y. dosent belong to us before Mesiach is coming. and the president also as good as you to make sure that every body shall be secured.
And why Rabbi weider must of send this letter not the Gedolim is simple because rabonim talk to rabunim and elected officals are talking to elected officals.
And again if all so called SHALICHIM of klal yisruel would not tear off the president and made a big hisgaros baeinos. this letter would not be neccsary .
I believe that his words are being taken out of context, and the words “Prevention of Bloodshed” relates to Jewish blood being shed for a non-Tora-diga goal, as it was always the case with Satmar Rav Z”L where he used to cry bitterly over shefichas dumim shel Achienu Bnie Yisroel.
And about #62 I don’t think you care much about “Gedolim” it’s rather because it your own godol.
I can list you here hundreds if not thousands of gedolim verushe yeshiva that side with satmar rebbe Eida Hachreidis and Brisk etc yochiach.
And about living in EY, In Veyoel Moshe-mamar Yishuv EY” Satmar Rebbe lists a summary of 13 conditions to look at when if one wants to live in EY, and yes if you are shomer of “All” Torah Umitsvos there is a mitsve to live in EY.
The summary of his letter is that religious zionist can not speak in the name of all religious communities.
And about KJ I believe that this is real machlokes and should not be listed here.
To all of you who are having all sorts of problems with Mayor Wieder (including the YWN editors), here is some education to help your thought process.
You seem to be lacking some history. This was precisely the Shita from the previous Satmar Rebbe R’ Yoel Ztz”l. Period. No If’s And’s or But’s.
Now for those of you who had a problem with Rabbi Teitelbaum, Fantastic! Because at least you’ll admit he was a Gudol Hador, So Rabbi Wieder has the strongest Daas Torah out there. That happens to be the daas Torah of all the gedolim prior to war (Both Lithuanian & Chasidic) were clearly expressing.
And for those of you who want to question whether Reb Yoel ZT”L was holding that exteme opinions, here is something shocking. In early May of 1958 there was a full page ad published by Rebbe Yoel Ztz”l in the New York Times, The wording on that ad appears almost identical to Rabbi Wieder’s letter. I challenge you to go to the bigger Libraries you can sure find a copy.
Let me just sum it up to you.
Back in those days when Rabbi Teitelbom was fighting the zionism single handedly, all your zionist fathers and grand fathers were fighting him exactly the same way you are now fighting his disciples. Most of your So called “Gedolim” were even trying to put him into Cheirim!!! Yeah, just like you are still ready to do to any of his Talmidim who are brave enough to express themselves….
But guess what. Just like Rabbi Yoel Ztz”l prevailed, so will all his followers, including our great Mayor. Why? Because Torah is defined as eternal and immortal (ניצחיות). That is why this organization calls itself so appropriately “True Torah Jews”.
So all of you Zionists out there, keep the onslaught going, it is just an honor to be on the same ship with the late Great Grand Rabbi Yoel Ztz”l
The thing is .. Just because the Satmar Rebbe holds one way, doesn’t mean that others must hold that way.
To put the secular zionists in the same breath as the Gedolim like R’ Kanievsky etc. is horrible. They do not hold of the secular state of EY, but see nothing wrong with living here.
#67, are you saying that the Gedolim aren’t Gedolim???? WOW! Just because they don’t hold in the shita of the Satmar Rebbe ZT’L????
I am no fan of the state of Israel, but I surely believe in the kedusha of living here . If you want to call me a zionist, go ahead. I am a frum yid who wants to get close to Hash-m..
Satmar chassidim severly misinterpret what their Rebbe has said. Tell me, is Satmar a religion all to itself on a crusade against zionism or is it a way to get close to Hash-m?? That is why I live here, to get close to Hash-m and be a true eved Hash-m..
How do you all know that the ability to move here isn’t the beginning of the divine redemption???
#69 Just the contrary.
Read again #67 and never was there any names mentioned. The entire definition of zionism is defined be Satmar Rebbe Zt”l differently than persumed be the vast mejority. And yes, unfortunately according to Satmar Rebbe even though you are not secular, you are defined as a Zionist, by condoning the existance of a Jewish state before the True redemption (G’eula Shleima).
And unfortunately, K’lal Yisroel has suffered some major casualties to the infection of Zionism, many of whom are also know to be otherwise as “Gedolim” ה”י (G-d have mercy on us). But then again we are very careful in general not to be naming names, just not to be פוגע in their כבוד התורה.
This is an old attempt to claim that “Satmar chassidim severly misinterpret what their Rebbe has said” and that is exactly why I challenged you with the New York Times Paid anouncement of 1958. where you can see this as his actual opinion, word by word. It will take me few more days to find the actual newspaper clippings and I will BE”H PDF it
The views of the mayor are views shared by many good Jews. For the many good Jews who disagree vehemently it is hard to digest why such a letter has to be sent to the President and into the public arena. But one thing should be clear to all
good Jews, the picture presented by this website of the nose is disgraceful.
Dear #69 Satmar also believes in kedushas EY, as well as that it may bring you closer to Hash-m but it no way does it go hand-in-hand with having faith in a malchus haminos. Divine redemption is by the devine power of Hash-m which is Malcus Shomaim.
Malchus haminos just delays the divine redemption.
העברת פי ה” הוא לא תצלח
Let’s be mispalel
#70, you are already being disrespectful of the Gedolim by putting them in quotes as if to infer that they are not Gedolim b/c they live in EY.
There is nothing wrong with frum Torahdig zionism.. I guess you must skip out parts of the Torah and davening..
I am not machshiv, nor condone the State of Israel. There could be many interpretations to not having a government before the coming of Moshiach. Could it be that there shouldn’t be a “frum ” government?
As far as I am concerned, they are not represenative of Jews , they are anti- Torah..
However, how do you explain R’Yosef Chaim Zonnenfeld and everybody who lived in the Old Yishuv? If you read the book” Guardian of Jerusalem” (Artscroll) you will see how much they disliked the zionists. Yet they lived and learned Torah in Yerushalayim.
This kind of extremism leads ppl to think it’s okay to shake hands with those that seek to destroy us.
Ppl can list gemaras all they want but they just interpret them as they see fit. Just like Lubavitchers like to interpret Sanhedrin 98..
Do you call the chassidim in Meah Shearim/Geula zionists too???
Please don’t confuse secular zionism with true Torah zionism.. unless you skip out the words at the end of the seder ” L’shana Habaa b’yerushalayim habenuya”.
There is no issur to live in EY. Stop making it seem like the frum Torahdick ppl here are apikorsim..
Honestly, this letter reminds me of the Misyavnim, or the Malshinim that we talk about in Shemone Esrei.
To #73. When I was saying that most if not all of the Gedolim where clearly in agreement with Satmar Ruv ZT”L, vehemently opposing anything that smells from Zionism. I was specifically pointing towards the previous generations.
And when I say Gedolim I’m not limited to the leaders of Hungarian and Polish Jewery such as The מנחת אלעזר Rav of Munkatch ZT”L or The Great Rabbis Of Belz ZT”L or the previous Rebbes of Lubavitch ZT”L etc. But it’s also the Great Brisker Ruv Zt”l or Reb Elchonen Wasserman Zt”l, or any other Rosh Yeshiva from that generation. This goes beyond any geographic boundaries. Whenever zionist movements where starting to form prior to the holocaust, they were all very strongly voicing their opinion and it sounded just like Satmar Ruv ZT”L in our generation, with one major exception. Satmar Ruv was already faced with the tragic fact of the existance of the State (Medina) רח”ל.
So you may disagree if you wish, but most of the Frum who are open minded and well-aquanted with the writings of the aforementioned Gedolim ZT”L, wouldn’t find it hard to believe, that had any of them been faced with a created jewish state, they would undoubtedly have taken the exact same position (read: ‘Shita’) as Satmar Ruv ZT”L.
Most of you who will disagree, I urge you to read their writings redarding Zionism ASAP. Then take a deep breath and see if you get my point.
And to #74. Absolutely Right! In fact even Satmar Ruv himself was a Citizen and was known as The Yerushalmi Ruv. But do you realize there are major conditions, that calls upon your complete seperation not just from the funding they provide but also to despise them (The Zionim) on a constant basis. You can understand that better through the example you brought from R’Yosef Chaim Zonnenfeld who lived in the Old Yishuv. Yes, reading his book ” Guardian of Jerusalem” is exactly meant to show you how much they disliked the zionists.
These great Tzadikim were living in Eretz Yisroel under these conditions without being impressed for a moment by any of the Israeli superiorities or achievements such as architecture, inferstructure, Military, Security measures, etc. etc. So difficult to obey, Really difficult. And my ggod friend, if you can be 100% sure that you’re capable of obeying by these rules, than I must say אשרי חלקך, as you have the opportunity to learn torah with Kedusha and Tahara.
That’s enough for now…
Why don’t the ppl in the Gov’t deserve zechusim of Torah families? After all, there is a pintele yid in every body! There is ALWAYS hope that yidden will find their way to the life of Torah.. you never know what it will take.
The money part is the only one that is not so clear.
Just b/c I dislike Zionists doesn’t mean I can’t take their money. I don’t like the morals in America either and still would have no problem taking Foodstamps and WIC if I were qualified. This is not halacha, therefore I am not sure it is fair to put someone like me in the same boat as the seculars.
Those Gedolim might have been against the Zionists but I highly doubt they were against the idea of living in EY.
Also, one thing I find troubling, while there are many faults with the founding of the State of Israel, what about the belief that EVERYTHING is from Hash-m.. Why did Hash-m make this happen if not to tell klal yisrael that they have the ability to come home?
of Dr. Dehan, Rabbi Samet and much more and not to bring up the countless attacks by the Arabs ר”ל that was a direct outcome of the התגרות from the מתנחלים . but just to link the news posted in YWN of killed IDF’s direct from Arabs or mistakenly by the Israeli military will be endless.- so were there “senseless bloodshed” (Yiddish Blood), or not?
{67} Just for the fact; the paid announcement in the New York Times (1958) was written (with advice of R’ Yoel z’l and other gedolem) by REB AVIGDER MILLER Z”L not a satmar chusid at all.
{37} There is an old syfer named תיקון עולם that was published before the war II. You could find there a list of over 150 Gedolim from that particular generation that all of them are writing clearly in agreement with Satmar Ruv ZT”L.
{69} From your language I could see that you are very ignorant in the SHITEH of the satmar ruv R’ Yoel z’l, I would strongly recommend you to take a peek into it and see what’s all about, (P.S. so far, no one in the world has challenged one בירור of the VaYoel Moishe, ניתי ספר וניחזי )
I am a long time FAN for the Yeshiva World News site I think this is a realy great site free of any “lushon hora” and all the “tuma” whats going on in the internet including those so called “jewish sites” but with my great respect I truly believe that this time the “YESHIVA WORLD CROSSED ALL THE RED LINES” and don”t mistake I am not SATMAR I am trying to be a fine religous torah observing jew but to so embarace a yid by puting up such picture even for a pushita yid specialy this Mayor of KJ that has a long history of chesed I think the Yeshiva world should do a truly apology on this shameful act.
[Sorry, the beginning of my previous comment #77 was removed so I`m rewriting it]
{46} Not to mention here the activities of the Zionist movement by the war world II, were they blocked all methods to help Jews survive using there indignity slang רק בדם תיהי’ לנו הארץ. (only with blood we will get the land עפ’ל) as we all know the history of Dr. Costner, Chaim Weitzman,שר”י (see ספר מן המצר written with blood by the Nitre Rosh Yeshiveh Rav Michual Dov Weismandel ZT’L,) and not to talk about Dr. Dehan that they brutally murder him just for not being in one mind with them, and not to bring up the countless attacks by the Arabs ר’’ל that was a direct outcome of the התגרות from the מתנחלים .
Just to link the news posted in YWN of killed IDF’s direct from Arabs or mistakenly by the Israeli military will be endless. So were there “senseless bloodshed” (Yiddish Blood), or not?
To reiterate my previous comment and express agreement with comment #78, the picture displayed on this news story is deplorable. Such a picture is contrary to ‘yeshiva world’ values and sensitivities. Please show class and remove it.
And please do not use your news stories as a springboard to encourage such a hostile exhange of conflicting views within the Torah world.
We all know that this is not the place to delve into these heartfelt issues.
What’s interesting is that all you “anti-zionists”are more concerned with showing the zionists that you don’t approve then actually craving the closeness to Hakadosh Baruch Hu..
I don’t condone the State of Israel, but that doesn’t mean that I can’t live here!
Obviously all of you don’t know what it means to be so pure and to want to be as close as you possible can to the Ribono Shel Olam.
You would rather live in a country that allows to lowest of morals that can ever be imagine and take their money than to live in the land Promised to the Jews by Hash-m..
The State of Israel has nothing to do with why I am here. I grew up learning chumash and neviim and felt that this was where I belong.
But let me say this, anybody who can malshin to Goyim , shake their hands is worse than any secular zionist in my book..
#82 and all of you with similar thoughts
Your comments -each of you respectively- reflect an individual who is very opinionated.
but there is an old rule that reads in hebrew as follows: דעת תורה היפוך דעת בעל הבית which essentially means that The Torah’dige opinion generally defies Logic.
Your opinions being they are all valid logically. But that’s what they are, ‘Logical’ at best! And What Satmar Ruv based his Shitah on was solely on Shas and Poskim in every step of the way…
So go ahead and express yourself. But on the same token let’s again all remember the teaching: ‘דעת תורה היפוך דעת בעל הבית’