Every year on Isru Chag Shavuos Maran HaRav Eliashiv Shlita goes to the Kosel to Daven. This year Rav Eliyashiv made a point of stopping to give a statement to Rav Shmuel Rabinovitz – who is the Kosel Rov. Rav Eliyashiv told him that every effort should be made to prevent Jews from going up to Har Habayis due to the severe Issur against going up to the site of the Bais Hamikdash today. Rav Eliashiv expressed his amazement and shock that people who call themselves rabbonim have taken matters into their own hands and decided to encourage the masses to start going up to Har Habayis and even paid a visit there themselves – contravening the ruling of Gedolei Hadoros.
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30 Responses
But wait. Some commentators here discussing this on the previous thread slammed those of us saying the same thing Maran HaRav Eliashiv Shlita just said, stating that “religious” zionism has its own way.
Is there any way to find out EXACTLY what Rav Elyashiv’s words were. I think it’s very important.
Joseph,
You are 100% right, but there is a difference, when you say it, they can argue with you if they’d like. But when the Posek Hador says it, even if they disagree they must remain silent!!!
Unfortunately these ‘rabbonim’ have no greater pleasure than to trample everything that is sacred to our holy nation, even the Daled Amos of the Har Habayis!!
“Slam” makes it appear like there’s some sort of war between the chareidim and these Rabbis. Would the Rav himself describe his statement as a “slam”. I’m sure he would be much more respectful and would warmly embrace any of these Rabbis who came to meet him. He may protest to their decision, but he would never “slam” them – chas veshalom. Lehavdil – the Yankees can slam the Red Sox, but the Gedolai Hador would cry over such terms. Let’s try our best to encourage shalom. We’re all on the same side – you don’t slam your teammates. You politely inform them of their mistake and how to make amends.
I agree with Eliezer. Do you know how many contradictory “SHAMATEE”s from H’Rav Elyoshuv shlit”a there are? There are those that bring their issues into the great Tzaddik, al fired up, and when they hear a response who knows how
disproportionate the response really was?
Do not get me wrong: I am the last person to go atop har habayis no matter what the other parties believe: after all, when Rav Cahim kanievsky, Rav Elyoshuv, Rav Shteinman and all other gedolim say you can go up, I will be the first on line.
Still, it is very important to know WHO asked the question, HOW it was asked, WHAT was the context of the question, etc. etc.
People going up to Har Habayis is extremely serious. I like the word “slam”. The Arabs have considered this an affront on their religion. Remember, Al Aksa Mosque is located right where the Kodesh Ha’Kodoshim was.
#1- The “source” for this story is YESHIVAWORLD. If you don’t trust them – then read news elsewhere.
#2-The quote is an EXACT quote.
#3- Just to reiterate it again – Rav Eliyashiv S-L-A-M-M-E-D these so-called Rabbis.
Case closed.
Reb Moshe Fox said: “That to me is the bigger, more pervasive and
insidious problem, and probably the reason why a mosque now sits on Har HaBayit instead of a Beit HaMikdash.”
Excellent point, excellent point…
YW – We love and adore your blog. Were I ever to meet you in person i would throw myself at your feet and kiss them.
But, c’mon, go a bit easy on us! We arent going to leave your sight but why be so harsh with:
‘#1- The “source” for this story is YESHIVAWORLD. If you don’t trust them – then read news elsewhere.
#2-The quote is an EXACT quote.
#3- Just to reiterate it again – Rav Eliyashiv S-L-A-M-M-E-D these so-called Rabbis.
Case closed.
We are your dedicated readers! We would travel to the ends of the earth for you! You are our guru! But, a little more subtle, perhaps?
I am sure you dont wish to alienat any of us! We want your sight to be the Numero UNO BLOG SPOT!!
I am your humble reader,
I AM ECKSTEIN…
R’ YW editor,
Do you really think R’ Elyashiv would agree that he “slammed” these Rabbis? I’m not mekabel such bizayon of a Poseik HaDor. That’s abhorrent.
Let’s say he expressed shock and said it should be protested, but leave it at that.
Jewish history is replete with differences of opinion on Halachic issues. No one person has the monopoly. The Satmar Rebbe Z’L argued with Rav Moshe Z”l on many issues even though Rav Moshe was recognized as the “gadol hador”. The Boro Park eruv is another good example. Even though many Rabbonim oppose the eruv, some of them vehemently, there are many other prominent, well learned, Rabbonim that allow its use. L’Hagdil Torah U’lahdiroh.
“The quote is an EXACT quote.”
The article contains no quote. So how can it possibly be exact?
What words does a gadol like Reb Elyashiv Shlita use when he wants to “slam”?
Flatbush Bubby: The Al Aksa mosque is NOT located where the Kodesh haKodoshim was, but at the southwest corner of Har Habayis.
The Kodesh haKodoshim was located in the nothwest area of the Har Habayis.
chaim dov, a note on your example: The Satmar Rebbe was considered the Gadol Hador himself (there have been more than one at the same time in Jewish History.)
What has happened to emunas Chachomim?We’re in golus even in our own land for the same reasons we lost it 2000 years ago. When daas Torah and respect for emmess is the norm,then the geulah will come soon.
WHY “TEASE” the Shechinah?
Burich Hashem we have leaders who lead and are not afraid to “lay down the law” (no pun intended) when they need to.
HaRav Elyushiv is indeed accepted universally as the pusik hador for ashkenazim and indeed so many sefardic puskim discuss halucha with him as well.
Ashrayni sh’yesh luni Rebbe kazeh.
There is a legitimate difference of opinion as to whether it is advisable or permitted to walk on the PERIPHERY of the Har HaBayis today. The Rabbonim who went up and encourage others to do so as well are saying that this should only be done with an experienced guide who will direct them as to exactly which areas are permissable.
The version we have of Rav Elyashiv’s opinion comes from Rav Shmuel Rabinovitz, who happens to be one of the Rabbonim who is most vocal about opposing the opinion that says that entry to this PERIPHERAL area is permitted and encouraged. We do not have Rav Elyashiv’s own words.
Although Rav Elyashiv would doubtless disagree with these Rabbonim’s psak on this issue, I HIGHLY doubt that he would dismiss the posek of Har Etzion Yeshiva and its Rosh Yeshiva as “people who CALL themselves Rabbonim” rather than as the formidable talmidei chachamim that they happen to be.
BTW, the other Rosh Yeshiva of Har Etzion, Rav Lichtenstein, shares the opinion that people should not go up. However, this does not mean that he considers the other opinions (including those of his co-Rosh Yeshiva and Rosh Kollel) as legitimate.
Yes, there’s a disagreement.
So what?
The last line of my above comment should read, However, this does not mean that . . . Rav Lichtenstein . . . considers the other opinions illigetimate.
Why didn’t Rav Elyashuv issue a statement at the time of the occurence, 10 days ago and rather wait till now? (got to check that out with Rav Efrati)
Did Rav Elyashuv ask for this statement made to Rabbi Rabinowitz to become public knowledge? or did he want the Kosel Rav to work diligently on this issue in a way to minimize Jews ascending to the Mount?
SO many questions and always so few answers!!!!
flatbush bubby
Do I affront the Arabs when I daven at Maaros Hamachepala or Shmuel Hanavi? Or maybe the sound of the shofar at the Kosel on RoshHashana bothers the Arabs in the Old City?
YW Editor What is the hebrew or yiddish (what lang did they speak?) for SLAMMED?
Mr. Fox
That is a credit to R’ Eliyashev, Shlit”a that he is held in such regard, not by the kindness of the hearts of the ‘non-Chareii world.
He is held as the Posek Hador by the Gedolai Hador, I think that speaks volumes. While we are zoche to have many Gedolim today from many walks of life (Chasidish, Sfardish, Litvish) Reb Elyashiv, Shlit”a is the zoken and Posek Hador wether any one less than him wants to disagree with his p’sak or that fact makes it irrelevent to the title.
He himself would not argue that another posek can’t paskin against him, and be correct in his p’sak,( ailu v’ailu divrei Elokim Chayim) but that does not change the fact that in the Torah world he is the Posek Hador today.
Whats all this nitty bitty nitpicking? There can be more than one poisek hador at the same time. (i.e. the Litvish, Chasidish, and Sefardim tend to have one; that does take away one iota from each other.)
There is some context missing. For the Rabbonim who encourage going up to Har Habyis, it is for them, to a very large extent, a neccesary means of enhancing Jewish “baalus” over the entire Har Habayis. In other words, by a lack of Jewish presence on Har Habayis, we say, by deed, that it is not our’s and rather belongs to the Muslims; Jews have the Kosel-the outside, in essence the street outside Har Habayis, while the main attraction, Har Habayis itself, is not under our control and is not a matter of practical interest to us, and we don’t even belong there. This isn’t simply a political matter; it has halachic ramifications as well, including elements of chillul Hashem.
The Rabbonim who disagree, disagree on all or some of the above premises, or on diffirent considerations altogether. Also, they may feel that the Chillul Hashem in this case is caused davka by going up! The issue might be black-and-white but it is definelty textured.
In response to “Flatbush Bubby”, for the pro-Aliyah LHar Habayis Rabbonim, that’s the point! The Arabs should be very unhappy that Jews want to go up; they should not be content in their wafq’s baalus over Makom Hamikdash. Also in response to “Flatbush Bubby”, it is highly unlikely that Al Aksa is “very near” makom kodesh hakadashim. Al Aksa is more likely over the extension of Har Habayis constructed by Herod. The dome of the rock is likely very near, if not the place itself. We will know a lot more when Mashiach comes.
YW editor: Chachomim, Hizharu B’Divreichem… which to me means, amongst other things: when we quote Gedolei Torah, it isn’t enough to just chuck their words out into the shuk; we must consider whether the “way” we quote them promotes Kavod HaShem and Kavod HaTorah, or leads to the opposite, G-d forbid. Of course if the Rav indicates that he wishes to be quoted in as literal and picturesque fashion as possible, than this would be a diffrent story.
Moshe,
May you find yourself in that unusual position many more times!
One point I must protest is your (clear) implication that chareidim “judge gadlus solely by hashkafa”(/institutional affiliation).
I wanted to point out once again that this is not a first-hand account of what Rav Elyashiv said. Rather, it is what someone claims was said to Rav Rabinovitz, who advocates for the anti “going up to har habayis” side.
YW Editor:
Perhaps you could enlighten us as to the source of your report. I would guess that Rav Rabinovitz didn’t give this over in English. Feel free to scan the hebrew original and post it for us.
Let’s see what the lashon hakodesh equivalent of “slammed” would be (and as to the reliablity of the report).
Moshe, BTW I think even in times of yore, when communications were very difficult, there were Tzaddikim or poisek hador that Rabbonim wrote to from all over the world for a psak or advice.
Maybe we could solve this whole dilemma by simply charging an entrance fee to go up into har-habayis. Funds gowing 50/50 to yeshivat Har Etzyon (since only 50% of its Roshei Yeshiva approvo of going up) and 50% to Midrasat Har Al Aska. (That same 50%, Rav Amital Shelita, is a BIG proponent of peace)
Now no one will go, (someone who PAYS to get in must have his yichus checked) but we bypassed all the S-L-A-M-M-I-N-G
Hachosen Bichvoid Hatorah, I Am Not Eckstein
Your assertion that the ‘one-stop posek’ is a new concept is not true. This is clear from even a quick reading of responsa. Some who held this position were R Chaim Ozer, the Chofetz Chaim, the Noda Biyehuda, and Rabenu Tam, among others. This does not mean, though, that there were on others in their times.
I know Rabbi Dr. Sholom Gold he is a strong minded fellow I was surprised he would go against all these Rabbonim
Moshe, I think hashkafas is one of the legitimate attributes in determining a persons “status” in life, and one of the strong qualities of a true gadol.
I believe that thoughout Jewish History, certainly all times since Churban Bayis Rishon, there have been multiple gedolei and poskei hador at the same time. I don’t think a period exists where there was one person ackowledged as the only gadol/poisek hador.