Forum Replies Created
600kgbear: You need to exercise your ayin tova a little more. How many here are truly chilonim? what proportion of yidden here keep yom kippur to some extent as compared to the vast majority in the US? Things here just aren’t what they seem. Most people here are traditional and not lehach’is sinners.
What is more, who can deny that we’re living in the era of ikvot hamashiach? Wouldn’t you rather have a front row seat?
A600kilobear: Tzippi Livini says it’s optional to live in Israel. You obviously believe the same thing. I do not support her or agree with her ideas (or those of any government that’s been so far), but if you are so familiar with life here, you know it is not easy. Ein eretz yisrael niknet ela biyisurim. And she and other chilonim are koineh the Land in a way that those who live in chul are not. So, you are frum, but this is one mitzva that you do not keep and the chilonim here do.
I’m saddened and horrified by the attitude expressed here. Maybe if you all came here you would have a positive influence on the metzius here instead of acting like modern day meraglim. And before you all shout that you are attacking Medinat Yisrael and not Eretz Yisrael, perhaps you should pause for a few moments and ask yourself honestly if you fail to see yad Hashem in the creation and history of the State? In 1949 everybody said hallel on Yom Haatzmaut. It was obvious to all that the birth of the State was a nothing short of miraculous, like a phoenix rising from the ashes of the Holocaust. Every war has been replete with miracles. Just think! Tiny Israel surrounded by enemies, attacked from all sides by no less than 5 Arab states, far greater in manpower and resources fended them all off in no less than five wars.
There are numerous truly religious people who are zionists, who do you think are the crack soldiers in the elite units of the IDF nowadays. It is no longer kibbutznikim, it is chevre from Mercaz Harav and from Yesha. True, many of us find it necessary nowadays to make a distinction between the concept of the state, in which we believe, and the government.
To correct the misguided impression in the post on Olim, this has long been the shita, to do a very limited army service. Religious zionists are often accused of putting more emphasis on Eretz Yisrael than on the Torah. I meant to try and correct this impression, to explain that everything in our lives is filtered through the prism of Torah.
GAW: Well first off, I should explain that we chose to live in Bet El which is chardal (chareidi leumi). Many guys tend to delay the army for as long as possible and then serve a shortened term of 9 months. In my own family so far, one son has no intention of going in the army, one learns in a hesder yeshiva (initially a 5 year program during which they do 16 months in the army as a group).
In general the army is not too keen on drafting chareidim.
I take it from what has been posted here that no kids go OTD in the States.
If this is so, then that must be compensation for the fact living outside E”Y means your kiyum mitzvot is only practise for the real thing, when you are zocheh to come here 😉
Seriously, though, there are kids who have never set foot outside EY who have gone OTD and kids who survive aliyah without doing so. There are so many factors involved, that it is way too simplistic to make a blanket statement about kids of olim going OTD.
What is more, plenty of kids act out when going through adolescence and that includes doing things that pain their parents from a religious point of view. With many this is a temporary stage, a question of forging their own identity.
BTW we made aliyah 10 years ago with bli ayin hara 8 children aged at the time 2-14.
I thoroughly agree with AZ and am would rather hear shidduchim of “older girls” for my son. That said, don’t you think you’re tackling the wrong side of the problem? How many of you have heard of 18-19 year old girls going out, only to break off a shidduch just before the engagement because they suddenly realize they’re not ready to get married.
Sometimes a parent can find him/herself in the position of having what he feels are valid reasons to oppose the shidduch, yet keeping quiet since the reasons don’t always have bearing on the actual suitability. For example, the parent may feel that a girl suggested for their son is too young/ doesn’t seem mature enough to get married. In addition her parents live in the US whilst the boys parents live in EY and want their son to live there and are afraid that due to the girl’s youth and closeness to her family she will want to live near her own family. Parent is entitled to feel that way, but does this entitle him to jeopardize what may be a good shidduch?
This may not hold true for those still looking after a few years, but a big part of the problem is that they just don’t know how to act, how to treat a girl, what to expect. From your examples and from what I see from my son, they’re trying to impress
the other person. Part of this is the system. There’s pressure to prove yourself.
There’s competition. When they first start to date they may not be ready, but feel obliged to do so, by their parents, their peers, whatever. And later on, they may be just plain scared due to what they see around them.
Nobody, the whole system is geared up to make comparisons. When someone gets a bunch of offers they seem to rate them and decide where your child is on their list. Finally, when they get around to checking you out, something else comes along that “sounds better” and gets bumped up to the top of the list. You begin to think you’re wasting your time waiting for someone who doesn’t seem to think your child is anything special.
I realized, but I guess this whole business is getting to me
Anybody else frustrated by the fact that when you get dumped, you’re not always told what you did/ said (or what it is about you:-) wrong?
Bear, so explain why the bochurim have to wait patiently while the girl works through her list and gets round to checking him out. Either the shidduch crisis is over there or it’s a load of hype:-)
My two cents as the mother of a boy in shidduchim. The girl’s friends tend to gush to the extent that you wonder if you should reduce it to 50% power as it were (or less).
Perhaps that is why many people prefer to network and find their own sources, who may be a little less biased.
Actually, Tzippi, I’m the mother of the boy. Here (EY) the accepted thing is to redt the shidduch to the boy first. Personally, I would prefer the other way round, but
someone mentioned something about the girl getting to do the refusing.
The situation you mentioned in your last post is the scenario I was thinking of.
Surely in a system where people say yes, then go on to checking into other offers, this may well happen. But like in Oomis’ example, if you wait for each offer to pan out, you’re going to waste a lot of time. I’m trying to imagine how these poor guys
manage to concentrate on their learning when all this is going on. In our case, our son is very involved as a lot of the offers come through his friends. The situation is created because a shidduch is suggested to him with minimal details, if he expresses interest they go to the girl, get her initial approval and further details, references etc., without regard to how many offers she currently has on the perek, as long as she is not actually going out with someone (at the moment they enquire:-) she’s considered “free”