Forum Replies Created

Viewing 50 posts - 1,351 through 1,400 (of 1,503 total)
  • Author
  • in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1415832


    “Not to teach the non-Lubavitch public his shittos that will make the public distant themselves from Lubavitch”

    Your other questions I answered in pg 16. As for this, as mentioned many times, the main thing,according to eveyone because this is definitely what the Rebbe taught is to bring moshiach. How do we do that? Through hafotzas hamayanos. That’s for the frum world. Now if someone isn’t even frum, we have to help him with the basics too, hence the shluchim.

    So anything the Rebbe said to his chassidim, that without context could be misconstrued and push people away from learning Chassidus which is the Ikkar, the Rebbe saw no reason to publicise it and told his chassidim that we need to have oros dtohu, all the radical chidushim and ideas, bkeilim dtikkun, presented in ways people can understand and relate to. Running down the street yelling the Rebbe is moshiach with or without a flag doesn’t cut it.

    But people who whitewash the subject all together and just say there is nothing radical etc. and we’re perfectly mainstream, don’t qualify, in my opinion, for the first half, oros dtohu. It seems these chassidim may just want to hide anything that can seem radical, with or without proper context.

    But since the point is to spread Chassidus and bring moshiach, if they are afraid of being merachek people, I
    understand that.

    But I think whoever is not open to seeing the sichos or maamarim inside and doing proper research when presented with the proper context, and have no Problem labeling thousands of Yiddin as whatever you have seen in this thread, they anyways wouldn’t be open to learning Chassidus so I don’t think that’s what the Rebbe meant.

    Seems SH would disagree here and say let’s just focus on the ikkar and why focus on anything controversial at all, that may be merachek people?

    And I guess, after seeing some posts, here, to err on the side of caution, he was right.

    But now that I did open the thread in light of my previous understanding, I’m happy to answer any follow up. I think that’s it. Please lmk if there was anything else that hasn’t been addressed yet

    in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1415635


    All the questions below represent distortions of nuances. For example, we don’t say bowing down to AZ is almost the same as bowing down to Hashem, which is the holiest thing, so bowing to AZ is second holiest.

    Rather AZ is the worst thing possible.

    Similarly, we don’t say that bringing a new neshama down to the world is the holiest thing so any way of doing it should be fine. Rather a relationship between a man and woman can be the ultimate of klipa or the ultimate of kedusha.

    The reason is because anything with a lofty potential can fall much lower.

    So the questions below remind me of the quotes that anti Semites quote out of context from the gemara to prove that the Jews are the vilest people in the world.

    Especially in matters of kedusha nuance matters so much, as a misstep the wrong way can result in AZ CVS.

    So really you need context for all these questions, and then you can understand.

    “Did the Rebbe say the following…?

    * A Rebbe is G-d in a body”

    The way you mean it, obviously not. However the Rebbe did quote the Zohar which states that looking at the face of the Master (Rashbi) was like looking at the face of Hashem.

    I again suggest learning the maamar byom ashtei asar to gain more understanding of tzaddikim s role in the world.

    “Lubavitchers (and only Lubavitchers) don’t have to sleep in a Sukkah”

    In short, lubavitchers follow their Rebbeim. Since the Rebbeim were uncomfortable to sleep in the Sukka because of the lofty giluim revealed within, so we are also uncomfortable to sleep there because we are aware of this from our Rebbeim. For more understanding, see the original sicha for the whole halachic analysis. I don’t know which chelek in likutei sichos it’s in offhand, but I’m sure one of the bochurim could fill you in.

    “* The Alter Rebbe was on a higher level of Pnimuyus HaTorah than Rav Yochanan ben Zakai”

    Never heard this

    * The Bais Hamikdash will not be built in Eretz Yisroel but in 770 and then transported to Eretz Yisroel, since 770 is “the place of Moshiach”

    Yeah but again you need to learn the source for context. See kuntres beis Rabbeinu shebibavel 5752

    in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1415561


    It wasn’t a “random passing thought.” First of all, it was divrei Torah. Secondly, by tzaddikim, nothing is random. Everything a tzaddik does is in accordance with Hashem’s Ratzon

    in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1415502

    @ sh true but that was because they had passed on the roles of Nossi hador so their guf had passed on…I really don’t get how you would reconcile it. Something to think about maybe ;)?

    in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1415497


    “Why does Lubavitch make such a big deal from winning the machlokes with the Rebbe’s nephew and getting the seforim back in the library, that they’ve turned that day every year into an official Yom Tov? Isn’t it embarrassing to every year revive memories of an internal dispute?”

    In few words, because it wasn’t really about the books. It was a question on whether there is a Rebbe today. This was akitrug from shomayim expressed here on earth just like yud tes Kislev.

    The reason why the family member was claiming the sefarim was because he held that lubavitch had ended with the frierdiker Rebbe and there was no more Chabad.

    So when we overcame that taane it was a big deal and still is today

    “Also, why does it seem that Lubavitch has had disputes with an unusually large number of other frum kehilos, both Chasidic and non-Chasidic (Satmar, Brisk?, Chaim Berlin, Ponovitch)?”

    Because we have a unique path to everyone else.

    “On a lighter note, how can you tell the difference between a Lubavitcher’s hat and a Yeshivisher’s hat?”

    I’ll leave that to the men. Probably because we have the brim down, and they put it up

    in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1415478

    So at the end of the day it is a matter of emuna, but I didn’t think it would be so hard to explain where we’re coming from because we’re all frum Yiddin who understand that the word of a tzadik should be taken really seriously,raising by his own chassidim.


    We go by the Rebbe’s guidelines. If there is a difference in understanding, then both positions are acceptable as you can see in this thread – mc and sh vehemently disagree, abs try to convince each other, but no one will day that either isn’t a chossid

    in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1415474


    But as you all know, gimmel tammuz came along. So according to what I learned in this class, I had no clue of any is this before, the chassidim were split in 3 camps.

    1) we don’t know what happened here, but it’s apparent that the Rebbe was nistalek, so we’ll go with that reality, and admit we don’t understand the sicha

    2) exactly the opposite. Moshe emess vsoraso emess, the world is Olam hasheker, so the Rebbe is still alive.

    How exactly?

    There are different ways that it can be, all based on torah of course. I’ll mention a few pointers and if you’re not familiar, or anther person can explain :

    1. Like Rabbeinu Hakadosh who came after his padding, to his family, in his body, and made kiddush for them (they could not have been yotze if he didn’t come in his body)

    2. Rabbeinu Bachya s concept of tzaddikim possessing a guf gas and guf dak. So the guf gas can be buried while the guf dak is active.

    3. A sicha of the Rebbe, I think MC referred to it before, on Yaakov Lo mes. The tosfos says that Yakov was buried, but at the funeral he opened his eyes.

    Ie for a tzadik there could be such a thing as the body being alive although there is no pulse, no eating etc to answer Phil

    3. Mainstream position that the Rebbe’s body is alive as per the last point of 2, in the ohel. This makes it that he doesn’t disconnect from us and continues to guide us, unlike tzaddikim when they pass away they undergo nhar dinur I think it is, and forget all associations with this world.so we visit the ohel, acknowledge gimmel tammuz and continue being guide by the Rebbe,the Nossi hador, whose influence has only grown worldwide since gimmel tammuz

    in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1415447


    So what I said before about the Rebbe being alive as in guiding us is mainstream. I can share a story to illustrate that point if wanted,please ask 🙂

    Btw I take offence at the Rebbe’s Torah bring referred to as just good enough for non frum…that’s a ridiculous thing to say. Whoever said it obviously has never learnt a sicha or maamar, and should seriously do some teshuva and ask the Rebbe for Mechila for their own good.

    Anyhow I was going to share something interesting.

    In 12th grade I picked up there was more to this Rebbe being alive thing than ma Zaro bachayim. So I asked my teacher to address this and he prepared a fascinating few lessons on it

    in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1415451

    Basically there is a sicha, shmos likutei sichos chelek vov.

    The Rebbe asks how is Moshe rabbeinu alive? After all, every tzadik is Af bimisosom kruyim chayim, so whats the addition of Moshe Lo mes?

    The Rebbe answers that there is a medrash about Moshe, “Hu goel rishon, hu goel acharon.” Even though the Yiddin of the time didn’t merit moshiach, so Moshe wasnt moshiach, but the words of Hahem still were fulfilled.


    Moshes neshama is always present on earth in the body of the ispashtusa dMoshe bechol Dara. And since the main life of a tzadik is his Ruchnius accomplishments, Moshe Lo mes, because his neshama is always alive in the body of the Nossi hador,and that’s how hu goel rishon hu goel acharon because his neshama will end up with the Nossi hador who will be moshiach

    in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1415452


    So that sicha made it obvious to the chassidim that the Rebbe can’t be nistalek, as understood from the previous information mentioned in this thread.

    Id really love to know if SH was taught this sicha,and if yes, how he reconciles it with having no problem saying ztzal etc

    in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1415000

    I see I have some follow up questions to answer. Excuse my show responses, I have a busy week and will try to get to everything eventually.

    I think the most important question to address is the Rebbe being alive one.

    So that’s a question I was first asked in high school by a wedding, by some very curious girls. And I told them what I knew which was “ma Zaro Vachasima, af hu vachasima.” The era of the Rebbe is not over, because as long as we act by his guidance and horaos, he lives on through us and influences the world even more powerfully, because as the Baal HaTanya writes, that the life of a tzaddik isn’t his physical body accend aspects, it is his spiritual influence, and that lives in even more powerfully after his passing because it isn’t limited to his body anymore. “Tzaddikim Bmisosom kruyim chayim .״

    in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1413822

    @non political thank you for taking the time out to respond. I will respond soon fully iyh.

    @syag I’m really sorry you’re hurt, but I figured my apology would come across as insincere unless I understood why you were so hurt? Besides for the fact that we are both anonymous so I anyway can’t fathom why you would be hurt anyway, even if I said something not so nice? Not every post that I made was well received but I don’t retort that I am personally offended as no one knows me personally,and any arguments are intended against my opinions. I certainly wouldn’t be so offended as to not give Mechila. I think that is over the top

    in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1413687

    @non political yes your five points are correct.Thanks allot. Let me just remind everyone that even though this is fun to discuss abs debate, it’s really not something that even lubavitchers nowadays sit and discuss in the open, as to us, this is aside point and the main thing is to bring moshiach. Which I think everyone can agree that Chabad is definitely pushing forward with this.

    Since gimmel tammuz the amount of shluchim has at least doubled. None of us would go live in the middle of nowhere is we didn’t clearly feel the Rebbe’s guidance and direction ad hayom haze

    In a famous sicha 5751 the Rebbe got very emotional and poured out his heart, which was highly unusual.

    He said that he had done everything to bring moshiach, and that klal yisroel as a whole, throughout the genesis,had accumulated enough zechusim to me r it moshiach so what more could Hashem be waiting for!?!

    He continued that it must be that Hashem doesn’t want the Nossi hador to bring moshiach because he wants moshiach. Rather, it needs to matter to every man woman and child.

    Ave then shockingly the Rebbe concluded that he’s giving it all over to us regular people-is up to us to bring moshiach.

    The shocked chassidim immediately broke out in a we want moshiach now chant for along time.

    But the Rebbe quietly told one of the Mazkirus, something like they missed the point. They’re just doing it for me.

    Less than a year later,the Rebbe had the stroke, the chassidim wanted the Rebbe to lead them forever abs just follow what he says, so they fervently davened the Rebbe should get better and lead the to the GEula.

    Apparently they were still understandably doing this out of love for the Rebbe,and not because they really wanted moshiach for its own sake,because gimmel tammuz followed.

    So we know what our mission is. And I’m told that people of the time could get away calling themselves chassidim without doing a thing the Rebbe asked of them, and just enjoy basking in the Rebbe’s presence.

    Today, no one would fool themselves to do this because there’s nothing to be gained by it. So as a result,the young generation today who want to be considered chassidim of the Rebbe, actually learn the Rebbe’s Torah on a regular basis and try to apply it.

    This results in a whole crowd of us wanting moshiach for the right reasons, not just to see the Rebbe,as we’ve never physically seen him,so we don’t miss it to the same degree.

    At the same time, we are forging forward with our mission the Rebbe gave us.

    Im keeping abreast of world events. Moshiach can’t be too far away. I’m pretty sure all Gedolim are saying it now,not just Chabad.

    Till then we know what we need to do and have our work cut out for us.

    in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1413632

    If I recall correctly you worte that you were born a few months before the lubavitcher rebbe did/did-not (strike out whichever is inapplicable) pass away. So you clearly never saw him, spoke to him face to face etc..

    How then can you say that you have experienced his “greatness myself on many levels”? Don’t you believe tht Hashem is running the world? Maybe, just maybe, it was Hashem you experienced and not the rebbe at all.

    If c”v someone beseeched oisoi ho’ish to heal him, ahd the person was then healed, we would all laugh at the idea it was o-h who healed him and we would all agree that it was Hashem who did so.

    So please tell us how you know it was the rebbe you experienced.”

    You do recall correctly and I’ll be happy to elaborate. But a concept here that seems to need explanation, is the relationship between Yiddin, Moshe rabbeinu/tzaddikim and Hashem vs. A”Z cvs.

    If you are seriously questioning and are interested in hearing, I’ll be happy, as would SH or MC, to explain this concept, and then I can gladly share my personal experiences.

    in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1413630

    @phil Although your posts have generally not been the most respectful, here I’ll address you, because the being alive point can use some clarification. But only once we’re on the same page that we can regard the Lubavitcher Rebbe as an authentic source because otherwise we cannot have an open honest discussion.

    The logic why that must be the case is explained in the post to syag above. @slonimer this is the additional topic I was referring to

    in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1413629

    @MC yeah it was your style, not your points, your points are very solid.

    in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1413628


    “Was the Rebbe the leader for Reform Jews, intermarried Jews and Jews converted to Christianity, and their Nossi Hador as well? Did the Reform Jews and Jewish converts to Christianity accept the Rebbe as such? If not, how can you claim that the Rebbe was the leader for all Jews?”

    Yes, he tried to help out every Jew and pull them from even the lowest depths. Yes people from all backgrounds and levels of frumkeit came to the Rebbe for his guidance.

    The Rebbe even cared for people that hated him and wouldn’t come visit and tried to help them out as well.

    One story I find mind blowing is that the Rebbe instructed a chossid to open a school, I think it was a half learning, half trade school, not under the name of lubavitch, because some kids who would benefit would’nt attend because their parents don’t like lubavitch.

    in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1413626


    I don’t see why you’re offended. Im just trying to figure out the disconnect here why people can’t accept my Derech. So first I got the message that although you (as a whole) can accept my logic, it just sounds too different than you’re Derech, and so you’re sending allot of shocked responses to the effect of, “What, you really think that?” Without addressing what’s wrong with it.

    To that I responded that I understand you’re not open to really listening and that’s understandable, but there’s no point in going on before people can digest what I’ve said.

    Then I’m getting other responses with the message of “You can’t believe what your Rebbe says. In fact, if it sounds unusual, you should realise your Rebbe made a mistake or didnt really know what he was saying.

    To that I responded with the Rambam and quoted it myself because I saw people aren’t going to necessarily look it up.
    As you can see, not only is it not strange to not sure with your Rebbe, is actually like rebelling against Hashem. So my logical conclusion is that maybe you don’t hold by the same level of respect for your Rebbeim because maybe you don’t hold as highly of them as tzaddikim? You can’t have it born ways – tell me I shouldn’t trust my own Rebbe, but cos that you don’t esteem your own. Unless you disagree with the Rambam which would be a bigger issue and I don’t think that’s the case.

    Another option is that people are ignorant of the Rebbe’s greatness in Torah or are deliberately ignoring it.
    If that’s the case, I can’t help you as before making statements against a big tzaddik, the least you should do is so some research to make sure your suspicions are really true. And you don’t have to even google around or call people, MC has done a great job with providing quotes. And someone who persists with these comments obviously had no respect for Torah authority so I don’t have a common ground with him.

    The last thing I can think of is that you were not aware of the way tzaddikim and Rebbeim are to be treated, and now that I’ve quoted you halacha, you will obviously not disagree, but you don’t understand how this level of respect can go with not serving A”Z cvs. If that’s the case, then just say you don’t understand this. And any of us will be happy to explain as there is a well known maamar called byom Ashtei asar that addresses this.

    in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1413602

    @showjoe thanks for the feedback.

    in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1413601

    “I will say no. No such place. As a (I hope) fairly learned Lubavitcher, who has heard all these arguments many times, I’ve yet to see such a reference. Anyone can come and insert “hints” anywhere they want, but an explicit source (without reading between the lines, or twisting words,) simply doesn’t exist.”

    Here is where we disagree. As you admit most of lubavitch does think the Rebbe is moshiach, although it would be most convenient not to. We do this because it was pretty clear what the Rebbe said, and before gimmel tammuz, there were no differing opinions, only after, which honestly seems more like apologetics, and lack of conviction in what the Rebbe said.

    I invite slominer to look up Sefer hasichos 5752, and learn any sicha there, and let us know what he thinks.

    in reply to: Where did all these Chabad warriors come from? #1413596

    True 5ish. My husband and I are gonna hopefully finish the maamar we started learning on podoh beshalom

    in reply to: Where did all these Chabad warriors come from? #1413360

    Well I suppose its hashgocha protis is almost yud tes Kislev 😂😂😂

    Seriously speaking I find this CR allot more stimulating add fascinating than collive because there is much more of an array of opinions and less censorship to promote one view.that’s a compliment. Although I have never ever been suspected of Kfira, and that was a nice welcome 😂😂

    in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1413327

    @gaon thanks for a substantive response.Looking forward to more

    in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1413296

    @syag I have said many times that this heavily relies on what the Rebbe says but I don’t get what’s about that. In fact, for me, it is more surprising you don’t take Rebbeim and tzaddikim more seriously
    Maybe because as mentioned, tzaddikim seem to be in short supply nowadays, so you weren’t raised with this concept? If there’s something I am missing, please inform me. Below please find some Nigleh sources that prove this point. If you can rebut this point then, please do. Also im sorry if I come across as condescending – I highly respect you all our I wouldnt waste my time here, but what am I to make of the fact that act source brought is just ignored, and then the grand consensus is that were living in denial etc without bothering to address point by point?

    “Vihei Morah Rabbuch kMorah Shomayim ” Pirkei avos
    ויאמינו בה ובמשה עבדו (שמות)

    Rambam hilchos tt chap 5:
    Just as a person is commanded to honor his father and hold him in awe, so, too, is he obligated to honor his teacher and hold him in awe.

    [Indeed, the measure of honor and awe] due one’s teacher exceeds that due one’s father. His father brings him into the life of this world, while his teacher, who teaches him wisdom, brings him into the life of the world to come.

    [Accordingly,] if he saw a lost object belonging to his father and one belonging to his teacher, the lost object belonging to his teacher takes precedence. If his father and his teacher are both carrying loads, he should relieve his teacher’s load, and then his father’s. If his father and his teacher are held as captives, he should redeem his teacher, and afterwards, redeem his father. However, if his father is [also] a Torah sage, he should redeem his father first.

    [Similarly,] if his father is a Torah sage – even if he is not equivalent to his teacher – he should return his lost article, and then that belonging to his teacher.

    There is no greater honor than that due a teacher, and no greater awe than that due a teacher. Our Sages declared: “Your fear of your teacher should be equivalent to your fear of Heaven.”

    Therefore, they said: Whoever disputes the authority of his teacher is considered as if he revolts against the Divine Presence, as implied [by Numbers 26:9]: “…who led a revolt against God.”

    Whoever engages in controversy with his teacher is considered as if he engaged in controversy with the Divine Presence, as implied [by Numbers 20:13]: “…where the Jews contested with God and where He was sanctified.”

    Whoever complains against his teacher is considered as if he complains against the Divine Presence, as implied [by Exodus 16:8]: “Your complaints are not against us, but against God.”

    Whoever thinks disparagingly of his teacher is considered as if he thought disparagingly of the Divine Presence, as implied [by Numbers 21:5]: “And the people spoke out against God and Moses.”

    According to you, the Rambam must’ve been a lubavitcher. I don’t know how else to understand the lack of understanding emunas Tzaddikim and respect of one’s Rebbe. Please explain

    in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1413175

    @syag I mean no disrespect. I think this has been for the most part a very respectful discussion, I just don’t think I’m being taken seriously because if I was, the sources would have been addressed, or holes in the logic pointed out, or start I existed which was, “For me this wouldnt work, but I see why it could for you.”Which is actually what I and secure have done many times.

    I guess i see that even though the sources haven’t been addressed and the logic had not been accepted, it is too much for the litvishe world as a whole to take in one foot, which is why I decline to further discuss perhaps even more sensitive subjects.

    Don’t get me wrong. I have learned much from this discussion and am happy to revisit at any time.

    I have great respect for you, and just because you’re younger than me, you have a sound mind, so it doesn’t matter at all. I didn’t want to write where the bochurim shluchim are located, as my husband would prefer the whole Yeshiva not gossip about his wife’s posts if I give away my location 😉

    As for my personal position, that’s the house I grew up in and my private personal opinion also based on several igros I have seen. My husband leans more to the meshichist side, and I admire his soldier type personality and kabbolas old, no matter what the subject matter may be within Yiddishkeit. Sometimes, taking your own intellect to seriously can get in the way of Avodas Hashem. Since this is my husband, that’s the way we run our home, and I don’t see any issue with that as like I said, he definitely has what to rely on.

    @everyone stop being so harsh on moshiach chat and chacham. Choc go can’t be older than 16-17, and moshiach chat 17-18, so stop getting insulted by his style – he’s not a full mature adult though. If you disagree with what he says, address his points and sources.

    in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1412877

    @ everyone who is asking me further questions. I think unfortunately you have proved sechels point quite well, that you are just not open to really learning and listening. You haven’t responded to the sources me and Moshiach chat brought, just say we’re foolish and mental patients… So I really don’t see a reason to go on when no one has given a real counterpoint to the logic of a) the Rebbe is our Rebbe/tzaddik see hilchos tt chap 5. 2) the Rebbe clearly hinted that he’s Moshiach. 3) so we believe our Rebbe.

    I really commiserate with your pain, can’t feel the depths but can just imagine. I honestly don’t know what I would have done if I had been there at the time. The chassidim tried to the very end to avoid gimmel tammuz, (along with the Rebbe, I believe) and that must have been such a confusing message to the youth of the time.

    No one is gonna convince me that I cannot trust my own Rebbe. Ain Eid naase dayan because of the koach hariya,, and I have experienced the Rebbe’s greatness myself on many levels.

    I am personally ambivalent over whether the Rebbe must be Moshiach as I definitely see place for both interpretations, but I don’t yet see anyone else who could for the category so until then, it’s the Rebbe because he is the most recent Nossi Hador (to answer that question.)

    And why not the Chazon Ish? Because he didn’t take personal responsibility for every Jew, just got his chareidi community. As that’s fine. He was a top leader in Klal Yisrael. Just not Nossi Hador.

    in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1412860

    @aposhuteyid thanks for your honesty.

    in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1412818


    Yes as with any teacher who you hold to be your Rebbe. See hilchos talmud Torah perek 5, of Rambam

    in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1412788

    “I can understand people who don’t hold by what the Rebbe said, but I have yet to see a rational argument for why lubavitchers can’t believe it for themselves based on their own rebbes statements and other sources.”

    Could not have said it better

    in reply to: Women's Bina Yeseira #1412077

    And this is what is the real truth: yiddishkeit is the true feminism. True feminism isn’t what the goyishe world promotes, that a woman should prove she is just as good as a man at man’s jobs. It is that she should appreciate, and get the world to appreciate her role.

    An example: we have a problem: basketball players get paid more than teachers. Would you say the solution is that all teachers should become basketball players, or that we should create an awareness within the world why teachers should be appreciated for what they do, and get paid more than basketball players?

    Obviously, the latter. So to here: the solution to womans role being undervalued isn’t that all the women should become men, as secular feminism would have us believe, but that we should educate everyone as to why the women’s role is so vitally important, as important as a man’s role and I’m certain aspects even more, just as is the case vice versa. This is Torah feminism. And the Rebbe spearheaded that and so avoided this conflict for lubavitcher women way before feminism even took off. And anyone else who learns it.

    in reply to: Women's Bina Yeseira #1412072

    @Joseph I suspected I inspired the start of this particular thread, and now I see you kindly wrote me a post to confirm it, I’m honored. In any case my previous statement still stands and of course I respect any authentic Torah source.

    But I’m sure you must realize that Chachmei Yisrael always looked out for the kovod of Bnos Yisrael as proved by the motivation behind the ksuba, the reason why they established that weddings should happen on days that avoided the decree of the evil Romans, as detailed in gemara. Yet your posts come across as denigrating Bnos Yisrael. I’m sure with further learning into the underlying dynamics as detailed above, you will come to the same understanding as our holy chachamim and rabbanim throughout the generations.

    in reply to: Women's Bina Yeseira #1412066


    If I may, here is where chassidus would help you out allot. Once you understand the underlying dynamic of za and malchus- represented by male and female respectively. I’ve you get that, all the disparate maamarei chazal fall in place. From the fact you constantly bring up this topic under different assumed scenarios it seems you are troubled by a contradiction here at trying to resolve it. Maybe this is it: you know Torah is emes and must be good for men and women alike. But it doesn’t seem so some places appear to favor men and some women. And bring a male, if it’s a contest you’d like the male to win. Is that it?

    Whatever your conundrum may be, by getting the inner scoop, all these questions fall away.

    And that’s why Chabad shluchos who have this understanding are very content to raise their families and put that first, and yet take great pride in it and don’t think of their role as any less than men. At the same time, they also have the balance, with a mashpia s input, to get involved outside the home with shlichus activities as much as possible while keeping the home first. And since we love our role and appreciate it, we are not looking to be rabbas. I sincerely advise you to look up the same book referenced on the other thread, “El nshei ubnos Yisrael,” and enjoy looking up the copious footnotes on every chapter… Hatzlacha!

    in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1411773

    @Slominer thank you kindly, but judging by the published reactions, it appears that sechel may be right and others may just not “get” us. I’d be happy to be proven wrong though:)

    in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1411763

    @sechel hayashar as I said not a personal attack, but what you said could have been seriously misconstrued so I’m glad we clarified. The bochurim shluchim were in OT last year. If you are the same year, although I’d put you at a year older, then you may quite possibly know my brother. It’s really too bad the anonymity rule, huh?:)

    in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1411739

    And now that I’ve agreed with moshiach chats positions i must completely disagree with your disgraceful post to WTP

    in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1411712


    You asked where I thought you didn’t express yourself as a Xhosa I’d. Since others on this group have asked about the topic and since you are anonymous I will respond. Please don’t take this as an attack, it is not.

    I was referring to your comments of “Even a woman can understand this.” Also, later on, you tried to dismiss my comments because I am a woman, without being misogynistic of course (wry smile.)

    Now you also defended me when slominer suspected I was a man, so like I said this isn’t an attack, just would like to clarify the Rebbe’s position on the matter.

    Yes, Noshim Daaton Kaalos, but also Bina yeseira nitna l’isha, A’s explained above. Also, I dont think readily admitting when I don’t know something but am happy to look it up, shows I’m confused by merely intellectually honest.

    I have heard it said by Rabbi Simon Jacobson in his my life chassidus applied series, and Rabbi Yaffe, dean of Talmudical Academy, respectively, that the Rebbe said that although everyone needs to learn chassidus, women should especially learn it because since they have an additional gift of Bina, they can understand the deeper concepts even better.

    Do you know that when Rabbi Gershon Mendel Garelik was lonely in far off Italy, especially as he had no chevrusa, the Rebbe suggested he learn with his wife?

    And lest you think that was an exception, the Rebbe encouraged husbands and wives to learn together on a regular basis, as a way of strengthening their bond.

    As a matter of fact, I myself prepare my husband a nice breakfast while he goes to an early minyan, and then we learn together after breakfast for a half hour. And I have kids.
    Sometimes I explain to him the material and sometimes he explains.

    Do you know the Rebbe said special sichos for women only? And no sichos for men only?

    Just to clinch this, I was thinking of discussing some questions that have come up on this thread with the bochurim shluchim who were coming over on Shabbos, and my husband,without asking what the questions were, told me there was no point. Because if I didn’t know the answers, the bochurim wouldn’t either as none were exceptionally brilliant.

    Now that sounds allot more like the Rebbe’s approach on women, and women’s learning especially.

    I’m assuming you are in shidduchim or will be starting soon. I’d suggest you learn the Sefer of the Rebbe’s sichos on women “El nshei uvnos Yisrael” and learn it as women, with their Bina yeseira are quick to discern what you think of their intellectual capabilities:)

    @moshiachat you make good points but you should spell out words properly. It will lend credence to what you are saying.

    @everyone I challenge those quiet spectators to speak up and tell me whether this has helped you understand the Lubavitch views on the Rebbe better, in a positive way, so that we can allay sechel hayashars concerns for good. If yes, maybe I will address an additional topic that has been in the background. If not, maybe he is right and I shall comment no further

    in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1411461

    @mdd1 apparently you do not know much about the Rebbe and his tremendous gadlus in Torah.

    To everyone wondering why I would think they would be “won over” to being a meshichist solely by what the Rebbe said, let me clarify:

    I’m not trying to convince or win over anyone, and that was completely not my intention in the first place. As you can see, not even 100% of Lubavitch subscribe to this view, so I certainly wasn’t looking to convince you, nor did it matter to the Rebbe.

    My sole point was to show you why most of us lubavitchers would think of the Rebbe in this way, and to show you that we have a solid base for ourselves, and obviously to us, even if the Rebbe was the only source it, that would be fine because we are the Rebbe’s chassis in.

    As for sechel hayashars concerns, and the others like him, that we are being merachek people, I disagree. I think there are many people here who have found this informative, and whoever comes here with an open mind can understand that mainstream Lubavitch is not crazy to think the way they do, they just rely heavily on what their Rebve says, and if he is a tzaddik that shouldn’t pose any issue

    That doesn’t mean anyone else needs to think like us, because the Rebbe is not your Rebbe so understandably you may not rely on what he says with the same degree of bitty that we have towards our Rebbe.

    Also, the people who are predisposed negatively are more likely to comment than those who merely find this interesting… and as Moshiach chat explained, the Rebbe allowed more and more to be said publicly as time went on, so I really don’t think it’s a problem. Aderabe, I’m just trying to create more achdus by explaining where we are coming from…

    in reply to: Tzivos Hashem for kids #1411424

    Yeah the Rebbe created it to solve a chinuch problem today:

    In the past, people loved in an environment where you did what you were told or else… Especially under the governments of old. So the chinuch for children of doing Torah and Mitzvos no matter what you feel like doing, was accepted.

    Today, especially in America, it’s not like that. There’s very much an atmosphere of no one can force me to do anything I don’t want, and if children are forced, many times they reject it when they’re older.

    But since the foundation of avodas Hashem is kabbolas ol, how do we give this over in a way the children will appreciate?

    Enter the Rebbe’s brainstorm, Tzivos Hashem. The children accept upon themselves the yoke of listening to their Commander in Chief, Hashem, and the more missions they fulfill, the higher they rise in rank in Hashem’s army…

    in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1411123

    @sechelhayashar and yes thanks for answering questions as well:)

    Anyway happened to see a fascinating letter of the Rebbe over Shabbos which I think is quite applicable here. Chelek 11, gimmel tof kuf samech tes.

    Some great points I have derived:
    1) the Rebbe specifically gave room in his sichos and letters for the viewpoints of meshichists and non meshichists.

    My opinion is that whatever spurs you to make Moshiach a personal issue and do everything you can with an urgency to bring him is what counts, and that’s why there are these two legitimate directions to take.

    2) As with everything in Torah, we need to have naase and then nishma with learning, and especially with learning chassidus which the yetzer hara specifically tries to oppose nowadays. And if something isn’t clear, then daven to be granted the true understanding.

    So no matter what opinion you have fellow Lubavitchers, the important thing is to learn and process everything the Rebbe said without preconceived notions, and only afterwards try to make sense of it. We shouldn’t shy away from learning any sicha or any letter or try to twist it into what we think would make sense. Rather, naase vnishma…

    Thought this is a beautiful point.

    I don’t have an opinion as those are both important values. I would ask a Rav.

    in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1411122

    I wanted to apologise if I’ve been harsh or insulting. If I came across that way it was completely unintended and the only posts that may have been written that way were coming from a sense of shock that you wouldn’t know something I thought was famous, or that a chossid could express himself in such a manner. Either way it’s actually a sign of high regard, and I apologise in case I came across otherwise.

    in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1411121


    A gutte voch! As I said I will have a very busy week, so I’m really glad moshiachchat is helping out. And I’m also really glad sechel hayashar is on this chat so you can all kind of see the prototypes of the deios etc.

    A few clarifications etc…

    A friend of mine who has been following this thread with interest commented to me that when I contrast Daas with Bina an quote the maamarei chazal of nashim daaton Kalos and Bina yeseira nitna lisha, it’s quite likely that people here don’t know the difference between Chochma, Bina and daas an so I look like I’m insulting myself and all women to boot. So I should probably clarify:

    Chochma is like a flash of lightning but intellectually. Like when you snap your fingers and shout, “Oh I got it!” But then then you say give me a minute because you need to concentrate to bring the idea down from a nucleus to a full understanding.

    That process of taking the Chochma and developing it into a full understanding by both length and breath is Bina. Men have Bina and women have Bina yeseira. Obviously there can be exceptions but that is the rule.

    Daas there are a few aspects. It is the bridge between sechel and middos. It’s about taking the intellectual abstract concept and making it personally relevant so that you can feel for it. Like you can know there is a rubber in the world and he is dangerous. And all the details of how he’s dangerous. That’s Chochma and Bina.

    When you realize he’s on your block, that’s Daas. Then you feel the emotions. So this application aspect, women are really good. We love making everything practical.

    The aspect we’re weak at is the weighing and contrasting the every possible hypothetical scenario before making a decision for someone else. Like what a Rav has to do. Or what you have to remember when you learn gemara.

    Two exceptions: And first of all, doesn’t say we don’t have any Daas, just that it isn’t as strong as a man.

    Also, if I have a vested interest, youd better believe my Daas will get really strong. That’s why there are complicated gemaras where the Tannaim and Amoraim who were incredibly brilliant, grappled with the complicated questions that women brought in taharas Hamishpacha. Since there was a vested interest, the women would be able to ask such crazy questions that even the Chachmei hagemara grappled with.

    I think this is long, so I’ll continue soon.

    in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1411124

    @whoever felt I was insulting or digging at non lubavitchers

    That was completely not my intention. Sometimes it can be hard to balance pride and excitement in my derech without coming across that way, but I have tried. In case I was misunderstood, let me just say I really respect the Satmar for their extra sense of aidelkeit that comes with bring shut off from the world.

    I respect Lakewood for their extreme devotion to limud haTorah, and applaud their hard working wives.

    I respect the general frum world for their ehrlichkeit…

    Yes sometimes my emotions overwhelm my intellect so thanks to the males here for balancing that. I would like to think I add a balance with a woman’s natural tendencies of Bina yeseira, rakus, and excitement (middos) to what my be otherwise a combative, cold logic conversation, but In case that isn’t needed here, I’m happy to bow out and leave this to the learning professionals:):)

    One more point: the whole debate is quite silly because it’s kind of a moot point until someone can bring an example of a leader in our generation who can rival the Lubavitcher Rebbe. And before you list names, make sure you know who the Rebbe is and was. If anyone can manage to find another gadol who has as much influence and care for every Jew as the Rebbe did, (and Joseph here if where I disagree and think the Rebbe changed much for the frum world as well, with regards to how they relate to their fellow not yet frum Yidden), then we can really discuss. Until then, even sechel hayashar would agree that no one can really replace the Rebbe as an actual candidate to be Moshiach.

    If there will ever be someone who fits that bill, I’m sure the meshichists will sit up and take notice as well, and really, all everyone of us wants is just that Moshiach come asap!

    in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1411125

    Lastly, for everyone that is shaking their heads at how we were left without direction CVS, you should all know that the Rebbe definitely knew what was coming and prepared us for it. If you want to know how, we’ll be happy to explain. I’m referring to the sichos of Koach Nissan 5751 and gimmel tammuz sicha (not sure the year but the one about even though it looks like a heelam vhester, it’s really ischalta dgeula) respectively. The chassidim of the time understandably didn’t want to get the message, but we definitely have our path set out for us until Moshiach is revealed to all, iyh this year:)

    in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1411126

    @sechelhayashar because until the world is in a geula state the full depths of Toraso shel Moshiach cannot be revealed, as explained in many places that you can probably quote me. Until then, we can just have a meayn. Hope your mivtzoim went well:)

    in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1411127

    I find it disturbing that one of the examples you brought as mesiras nefesh is not being a loving husband because Hashem comes first?! I believe Hashem gave the mitzvah if oina. Care to explain?

    in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1410932

    @Daasyochid That is patently incorrect that no one else considered the Rebbe a tzaddik by this definition except for us. Would you like to hear names? Or are you not really asking but merely protesting?

    in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1410927

    @slominer see what I answered Joseph above on the same issue. If you have further questins, Ill be happy to answer

    in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1410876

    @sechelhayashar my husband also didn’t know offhand, so I asked some friends who are buki in nun aleph nun beis, and someone said try nun aleph- tazria metzora. Since I’m just waiting for my challa to rise, I treated myself to look it up, and it’s in ois yud beis.

    in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1410759

    @slominer oy you completely missed my point! The point was that even if we would need to suffer for learning chassidus, because more would be expected from us as a result, I would do it. Can’t get enough of it.

    in reply to: Mesichists Explained by ChabadShlucha #1410757

    @put down the gun

    Fascinating point because the Rebbe says straight out that Mordechai was the Moshe of his generation. Wow lots of things to research here… When an I gonna do it all? Any volunteers to help me out? Lol I’ll do my best but got a buddy week ahead. I’ll put it in my list of things to do though.

Viewing 50 posts - 1,351 through 1,400 (of 1,503 total)