doomsday

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    2cents: “While a lot of parents are emotional and buy into the claim that vaccines have caused their childs autism. It is not hard to understand why they would buy into this idea, nor are they to blame. ”

    The millions of relatives who said that cigarettes caused their loved one’s cancer – were they just
    being “emotional”? Or were they 100% RIGHT, while the Tobacco Industry LIED and DENIED for
    DECADES that smoking causes cancer.
    Until the Smokers vs Non-Smokers proved once and for all that Smoking causes cancer.

    Which study does CDC /Vaccine Industry refuse to do?
    Vaxxed vs Unvaxxed

    Because that would PROVE that vaccines cause autism and MANY OTHER diseases!

    doomsday
    Participant

    2cents: “You do realize by now that what many people state have no bearing if it were true, ”

    2cents, I did not base my opinion on what thousands of parents have reported.
    Why are you ignoring the other FIVE reasons I gave for believing vaccines are harmful?

    1. There are THOUSANDS of parents who reported that their NORMAL children became autistic after vaccination. Many developed high fevers and seizures and then regressed into autism.

    2. BEFORE CDC quadrupled the vaccine schedule, autism was 1:10,000 – today it is 1:50.

    3. There are hundreds of studies by REAL PhD Scientists and Medical Doctors linking Vaccines to Autism – and many other diseases.

    4. CDC refuses to do a vaxxed vs unvaxxed study.

    5. CDC makes FRAUDULENT studies – and I SPECIFICALLY Pointed out the FRAUD, which was exposed by real PhD Scientists.

    6. There IS a vaxxed vs unvaxxed study showing that unvaxxed children have far less autism, learning disabilities, allergies, asthma.

    doomsday
    Participant

    Younger siblings of autistic children who are 100% UNVACCINATED do not have autism!

    There is a genetic component, just like there is a genetic component to get lung cancer.
    But if you don’t smoke you won’t get lung cancer,
    and if you don’t vaccinate you won’t get autism. (only 1:10,000)

    doomsday
    Participant

    2cents: “However, the rate of ASD diagnoses have no dropped, nor are these families chances of their other children diagnosed with ASD less likely, despite withholding vaccines”.

    LIE! In the Autistic Sibling study, the younger siblings who did not get MMR and were autistic were Vaccinated – yet you keep LYING that 100% unvaccinated children got autism!
    The younger siblings who got autism were vaccinated.
    The younger siblings who got autism were vaccinated.
    The younger siblings who got autism were vaccinated.
    The younger siblings who got autism were vaccinated.

    I told you this a million times and you keep repeating that LIE! SHAME ON YOU!

    doomsday
    Participant

    DaasYochid: “Sickest children in history? Do you know how many fatal childhood illnesses have been eradicated (or made curable) by modern medicine? Would you like to go back to a time when an ear infection or a cough could be fatal?”

    90% DROP of fatalities from infectious disease BEFORE vaccines were invented!
    We stopped taking Small pox Vaccine – and NOBODY is dying of smallpox!
    In USA, per year:
    Zero deaths from Small Pox
    Zero death from Measles
    Zero Death from Mumps
    Zero death from Chicken Pox
    Zero death from Polio
    168 deaths reported after vaccination but could be 10 – 100 times more as only 1-13% of SERIOUS Adverse Events are reported.
    SICKEST CHILDREN in History of USA:
    1:6 children are Learning Disabled
    1:6 children are Allergic (can be Fatal!)
    1:7 couples are INFERTILE (Vaccine inserts say they don’t safety test for infertility)
    1:13 children have Asthma
    1:15 children have ADHD
    1:5 teens had episode of Mental illness
    1:8 children have IBS
    1:50 children have Autism (listed as Adverse Event on Vaccine Inserts)
    1:100 children have Epilepsy (seizures listed as Adverse Event on Vaccine Inserts)
    1:250 children have Tourettes Syndrome
    1:400 children have Diabetes
    1:775 babies DIE of SIDS (listed as Adverse Event on Vaccine Inserts)
    1:1,000 children have Celiac Disease
    1:5,560 children have CANCER (Vaccine Inserts say don’t safety test for Cancer)

    Vaccines are MORE dangerous then the diseases they are supposed to prevent!

    doomsday
    Participant

    RebYid: “but some people are more interested in selling allergy meds than in making sure everyone is vaccinated.”

    WHO makes money selling allergy meds? (and ADHD meds, asthma meds, diabetes meds, cancer meds)?
    The Pharmaceutical Company that makes Vaccines and Bribes Government to FORCE people to take it
    against their will.

    What is the ONLY Industry in the world that has the Government FORCE people to take their product,
    is immune from liability for all the injuries and deaths from their product, and makes Billions selling MORE products (Meds) for the diseases they created???

    Which Industry gives the most Millions to Government, most Millions to News Media (tons of ads),
    Funds most “medical research” (FAKED), gives Millions to Medical Journals?

    doomsday
    Participant

    Ubiquiton: “ooooh I didnt know β€œmany parents” stated that. that changes everything. who cares how many studies we have showing it isn’t true. ”

    And there are HUNDREDS of studies that show that vaccines cause Autism and many other diseases.

    When Millions of people blamed cigarettes for their Lung Cancer, Big Tobacco ridiculed them as well.
    Vaccine Industry is just copying Tobacco Industry Playbook.
    But Vaccine Industry is using the BILLIONS $$$ to Buy Congress to prevent a Vaxxed vs Unvaxxed Study – because it was a Smoker vs Non-Smoker Study that EXPOSED the LIES of Tobacco Industry!

    doomsday
    Participant

    Vaccines are the likely cause of the soaring allergy rate – 1:6 children allergic.
    Before CDC QUADRUPLED the vaccine schedule, allergies were very rare.
    Allergies are an Auto-Immune Disease and vaccines HYPER stimulate the immune system.

    I remember when schools served peanut butter and airlines gave out peanuts.
    I remember where no child in schools needed epi-pens.
    But then the CDC which takes Millions of $$$ in “gifts” from Vaccine Industry, QUADRUPLED the
    vaccine schedule and we now have the SICKEST children in history.

    doomsday
    Participant

    Daas Yochid: ” the parents of these autistic children feel they need to blame it in someone instead of accepting it as a g’zeirah min hashomayim doesn’t make their claims true. ”

    Tobacco Industry also LIED that relatives of people who died from cancer wrongly blamed cigarettes.
    And we now know that Tobacco Industry LIED and cigarettes DO Cause Cancer.
    Just like Vaccines DO cause Autism (and many other diseases!

    That is why Vaccine Industry refuses to do Vaxxed vs Unvaxxed Study.
    Because it was Smoker vs Non-Smoker Study that PROVED Cigarettes cause cancer!

    doomsday
    Participant

    DaasYochid, my opinion on vaccines is based on many FACTS:

    1. There are THOUSANDS of parents who reported that their NORMAL children became autistic after vaccination. Many developed high fevers and seizures and then regressed into autism.

    2. BEFORE CDC quadrupled the vaccine schedule, autism was 1:10,000 – today it is 1:50.

    3. There are hundreds of studies by REAL PhD Scientists and Medical Doctors linking Vaccines to Autism – and many other diseases.

    4. CDC refuses to do a vaxxed vs unvaxxed study.

    5. CDC makes FRAUDULENT studies – and I SPECIFICALLY Pointed out the FRAUD, which was exposed by real PhD Scientists.

    6. There IS a vaxxed vs unvaxxed study showing that unvaxxed children have far less autism, learning disabilities, allergies, asthma.

    doomsday
    Participant

    No, RebYid, it makes YOU someone who does not know how to read.

    I repeatedly stressed that in THIRD WORLD COUNTRIES, children who are vaccinated have parents
    who are better educated, richer, more food and clean water.

    In USA, most anti-vaxxers are COLLEGE EDUCATED and richer then the vaccinated.

    doomsday
    Participant

    RebYid: “which anti-autistic hate groups are you currently a member of”

    I am a special education therapist who works with children with autism.
    Many parents state that vaccines caused their child’s autism.
    My nephew is autistic and my sister says that vaccines caused his autism.

    My nephew had been quite sick and on antibiotics and as soon as he finished antibiotics
    the doctor asked my sister if my nephew should be vaccinated. My sister did not know the
    answer (13 years ago most were unaware of vaccine-autism risk) so the doctor gave my
    nephew 7 vaccines at once. My sister thought my nephew was deaf, because he stopped
    responding. He was diagnosed with autism 2 weeks after the 7 vaccinations after 2 rounds of
    antibiotics.

    PROVAXXERS LOVE AUTISTICS – that is why they create so many with their poisonous vaccines!

    doomsday
    Participant

    You ProVaxxers are the ones who can’t understand that Dr. Zimmerman stated:
    VACCINES COULD CAUSE AUTISM!

    The Vaccines must have made you ProVaxxers autistic.

    doomsday
    Participant

    Doomsday: Folks, See how 2Cents LIES!

    Dass Yochid No, I see how you lie.

    NOPE! You ProVaxxers LIE. How can I be lying when I am QUOTING Dr. Zimmerman’s
    OWN WORDS in his sworn affidavit: See QUOTES below:

    “VACCINES COULD CAUSE AUTISM”

    “The opinion of [DOJ ATTORNEY] during his closing argument regarding MY expert opinion
    was HIGHLY MISLEADING and NOT ACCURATE reflection of my opinion…in light of the above referenced information in which I explained I explained to the DOJ attorneys while OMITTING the caveat regarding exceptions in which VACCINATIONS COULD CAUSE AUTISM.”

    doomsday
    Participant

    2cents: “He clearly states that his opinion has not changed, nothing β€˜came out’, he clearly is an advocate for vaccines and does not believe that vaccine causes autism. ”

    Folks, see how Pro Vaxxers Lie?
    Dr. Zimmerman did say that Vaccines COULD Cause Autism. Here is a QUOTE from
    Dr. Zimmerman’s Sworn Testimony (Affidavit):

    “8. I explained that I was of the opinion that there were exceptions in which
    VACCINES COULD CAUSE AUTISM.

    10. I explained my opinion on the exception on which VACCINES COULD CAUSE AUTISM was based on advances in Science, Medicine and Clinical Research…”

    Furthermore, Dr. Zimmerman REVEALS how DOJ Attorneys LIED in Vaccine Court to deny
    that Yates Hazlehurst’s autism was caused by vaccines!

    1. Dr. Zimmerman revealed that when he told DOJ attorneys that he believes Vaccines CAN cause Autism he was FIRED as expert witness – but DOJ attorneys LIED and stated in closing arguments
    that Dr. Zimmerman believes Vaccines NEVER cause Autism.

    2. The LIE by DOJ attoney’s was used to deny compensation for Yates Hazlehurst’s autism.
    Dr. Zimmerman writes that in HIS opinion, VACCINES DID CAUSE Yates Hazlehurst’s autism, yet
    DOJ LIED that Dr. Zimmerman believes that vaccines NEVER cause autism!

    Folks, See how 2Cents LIES! 2Cents knows that this is proof of DOJ Government FRAUD and
    lying that an Expert Witness said Vaccines NEVER cause autism when the Expert Witness told
    DOJ Attorneys the exact opposite: VACCINES CAN CAUSE AUTISM!!!

    doomsday
    Participant

    Excerpts from Dr. Zimmerman’s sworn affidavit testimony: [emphasis added]

    6. On Friday June 15, 2007….I spoke with DOJ Attorneys in order to clarify my written expert opinion.

    7. I clarified that my written expert opinion regarding Michelle Cidello was a case SPECIFIC to Michelle
    Cidello. My written expert opinion regarding Michelle Cidello was NOT INTENDED TO BE A BLANKET STATEMENT AS TO ALL CHILDREN AND ALL MEDICAL SCIENCE.

    8. I explained that I was of the opinion that there were exceptions in which
    VACCINES COULD CAUSE AUTISM.

    10. I explained my opinion on the exception on which VACCINES COULD CAUSE AUTISM was based on advances in Science, Medicine and Clinical Research…

    11. …I specifically referenced and discussed with…DOJ Attorneys…the Medical Paper:
    Developmental Regression and Mitochondrial Dysfunction in a Child with Autism which was PUBLISHED in the Journal of Child Neurology, co-authored by Jon Polling, MD, PhD, Rchard Frye MD PhD, John Schoffner MD, and Andrew Zimmerman, MD. A copy attached as Exhibit C.

    12. Shortly after I clarified my opinions with DOJ Attorneys, I was contacted by one of the junior DOJ attorneys and informed that I would no longer be needed as an expert witness on behalf of HHS…

    13. ..I was scheduled to testify for HHS on Monday, June 18, 2007.

    17. I have reviewed extensive genetic, metabolic and other medical records of William YATES HAZLEHURST. In my opinion and to a reasonable degree of medical certainty, YATES HAZLEHURST, suffered regressive encephalopathy with features of AUTISM spectrum disorder as a RESULT OF VACCINE INJURY in the same manner as described in the DOJ concession of Poling vs HHS.

    18. [In the closing arguments of Hazlehurst vs HHS, DOJ Attorney stated in the transcripts:]

    <i> Dr. Zimmerman has not actually appeared here, but he has given evidence on this issue, and it appeared in the Cidillo case….[Dr. Zimmerman’s] name was mentioned several times by the Petitioner’s [Hazlehurst] in this case….I am going to quote from Exhibit FF in the Cidillo Case:

    “There is no scientific basis…MMR Vaccine or Mercury Intoxication and Autism…
    We know his [Dr. Zimmerman’s] views on this issue.”

    19. The opinion of [DOJ ATTORNEY] during his closing argument regarding MY expert opinion
    was HIGHLY MISLEADING and NOT ACCURATE reflection of my opinion…

    20. ..it was HIGHLY MISLEADING of DOJ to continue to use my written expert opinion regarding
    Michelle Cidello as evidence against the remaining petitioners…in light of the above referenced information in which I explained I explained to the DOJ attorneys while OMITTING the caveat regarding exceptions in which VACCINATIONS COULD CAUSE AUTISM.
    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    To summarize:

    1. Dr. Zimmerman WAS scheduled to be a witness for Vaccinations /DOJ in Vaccine Court and
    was FIRED by DOJ when he stated that in certain cases, VACCINES COULD CAUSE AUTISM.

    2. Dr. Zimmerman also told DOJ attorneys that his opinion in Michelle Cidillo’s case where he testified
    that MMR did not cause Cidillo’s Autism was SPECIFIC to that case and NOT a blanket statement
    that Vaccines NEVER cause Autism!

    3. DOJ Attorneys deliberately LIED in Vaccine Court and MISREPRESENTED Dr. Zimmerman’s
    opinion in the Cidillo case to mean Dr. Zimmerman stated that Vaccines NEVER Cause Autism
    when Dr. Zimmerman SPECIFICALLY TOLD DOJ THIS IS NOT TRUE!

    4. Dr. Zimmerman’s MISREPRESENTED opinion was used to deny compensation to YATES HAZLEHURST. Dr. Zimmerman writes that in his opinion, Vaccines DID Cause Hazlehurst’s Autism!!!

    <i>5. What more proof do you need that US GOVERNMENT – DOJ – LIES to cover up that
    VACCINES CAN CAUSE AUTISM???</i>

    doomsday
    Participant

    2Scents: <i>F. His only claim is, that children with mitochondrial dysfunction may regress when they stress their mitochondrial reserves, such as an infection or even something as minor as the immune response to a vaccine.</i>

    By saying Vaccines COULD cause autism is some children, Dr. Zimmerman is contradicting the
    LIES /PROPAGANDA of CDC which denies ANY connection between Vaccines and Autism.

    doomsday
    Participant

    NEWS! Dr. Andrew Zimmerman, a Pro-Vax Doctor who was Expert Witness FOR Vaccines in Vaccine Court, told DOJ Lawyers in 2007, that he believed vaccines COULD cause autism in some children. DOJ Lawyers FIRED Dr. Zimmerman as witness, then LIED in Vaccine Court that Dr. Zimmerman says that there is NO connection between vaccines and autism.

    Dr. Zimmerman swore an affidavit to the above. Google Dr. Andrew Zimmerman vaccines autism to read the story by investigative reporter Sharyl Atkinson.

    doomsday
    Participant

    Doomsday: β€œc. WHY do you say CDC should NOT do the study?”

    Health: I answered this a few times – IT’s Unethical!

    I must have said a dozen times a RETROSPECTIVE study – nothing unethical there.

    doomsday
    Participant

    UbiquitinHealthy user bias is a known bias, while you misapply it as I tried to explain earleir in the study you cleary don’t understand),

    Are you a PhD Scientist? Because real PhD Scientists have said that the CDC studies are
    invalid because of Healthy User Bias / Lack of Randomization which hides the vaccine-autism Link.

    doomsday
    Participant

    Doomsday:β€œCDC cannot manipulate the outcome of Vaxxed vs UnVaxxed”

    Ubiquitin: why not?

    CDC studies are DESIGNED with design flaws to produce fake outcomes, such as healthy user bias hiding
    the autism caused by MMR. Or changing the parameters of study in the middle as in the Danish study – counting only Autistic Children in HOSPITALS before Thimerosal was removed and then INCLUDING Autistic Children living at Home AFTER Thimerosal was removed in order to fraudulently claim that Autism went UP after Thimerosal was removed.

    These tricks cannot be played on a vaxxed vs unvaxxed study.

    doomsday
    Participant

    Ubiquitin: don’t worry I didn’t actually expect you to accept that there was no link. As I have told you time and time again when you keep asking β€œwhy no studies were done”

    CDC only designs FRAUDULENT studies where they can manipulate the outcome.
    CDC cannot manipulate the outcome of Vaxxed vs UnVaxxed so refuses to do
    THAT particular study – with No Explanation!
    V’Hameivin Yavin.

    doomsday
    Participant

    Doomsday: There is virtually ZERO deaths from Mumps and Measles (Rubella) in First World Countries!

    DaasYochid: I’ll give you three guesses why (the first two don’t count).
    I’ll even give you a hint. It rhymes with β€œMaxine’s”.

    Nice try. But Historical Charts prove that the Death rate from Measles and other infectious diseases
    declined 90% BEFORE Vaccines were Invented!

    doomsday
    Participant

    Ubiquitin β€œExisting evidence on the safety and effectiveness of MMR vaccine supports current policies of mass immunization aimed at global measles eradication and in order to reduce morbidity and mortality associated with mumps and rubella.”

    There is virtually ZERO deaths from Mumps and Measles (Rubella) in First World Countries!
    So ONLY in THIRD WORLD Countries is vaccination worth the risk – although a
    Third World Vaxxed vs UnVaxxed Study would be needed to be sure.

    doomsday
    Participant

    ubiquitin: you said you wanted randomized trials, it included 5.
    Can we move on from MMR and autism?

    NO! Autism is diagnosed months to years after vaccination, and your randomized trials only
    followed adverse events for six weeks.

    The study did find increased risk of Febrile (high fever) Seizures and Meningitis after Vaccines.
    And Febrile Seizures and Meningitis have been linked to Autism,
    so NO, we cannot move on from MMR and Autism.

    doomsday
    Participant

    Deaths Per Year in USA

    Measles ZERO
    Mumps ZERO
    Rubella ZERO
    Chickenpox ZERO
    Whooping Cough ZERO
    Tetanus ZERO
    Diptheria ZERO

    Vaccines 168 Deaths reported to VAERS Per Year.
    But since only 1-13% of Serious Adverse are reported could be 1,680 to 16,800 deaths after Vaccines –
    PER YEAR!!!

    AND we have SKYROCKETING: Autism, ADHD, Diabetes, Epilepsy (Seizures), Cancer, Allergies & Asthma
    in our children – the SICKEST CHILDREN in the History of USA!

    doomsday
    Participant

    Ubiquiton: *Note the Cochrane review looked at β€œfive randomised controlled trials (RCTs), one controlled clinical trial (CCT), 27 cohort studies, 17 case-control studies, five time-series trials, one case cross-over trial, two ecological studies, six self controlled case series studies involving in all about 14,700,000 children and assessing effectiveness and safety of MMR vaccine”

    Ubiquiton, the source you quoted says that MMR is effective in preventing Measles, LESS so for Mumps.
    But YOUR source also says the MMR was NOT ADEQUATELY SAFETY TESTED – see the Conclusion:

    AUTHORS’ CONCLUSIONS:
    The design and reporting of safety outcomes in MMR vaccine studies, both pre- and post-marketing, are largely inadequate. The evidence of adverse events following immunisation with the MMR vaccine cannot be separated from its role in preventing the target diseases.

    Ubiquiton, YOUR source says that MMR safety tests found SIGNIFICANT RISK of Febrile SEIZURES,
    Meningitis and thrombocytopenic purpura!

    doomsday
    Participant

    HealthNo, the CDC should NOT do the study.
    YOU, Yourself should! (DO THE STUDY.) You can find a lot of Anti-vaxxers, like yourself.

    a. a proper vaxxed vs unvaxxed study is too expensive for antivaxxers.
    CDC is the government and has much more resources.

    b. any study by antivaxxers is attacked by Government / CDC as invalid.

    c. WHY do you say CDC should NOT do the study?

    doomsday
    Participant

    Doomsday: β€œ2Cents, Are you going to admit you were WRONG when you claimed the Siblings of Autistic children did not receive ANY vaccines?”

    2Cents: I would only be wrong if this is what I stated, I stated that it is likely they have not received any vaccines unless they only believe that the MMR was the cause for their childs autism.

    Here is what you actually wrote:
    2cents: C. Children with siblings, are not likely to be vaccinated
    Yet they do not have a lower rate of autism, they have the opposite of healthy user bias that you claim.

    So you make a WRONG assumption and then use your WRONG assumption as “Proof”
    of your WRONG theory!

    doomsday
    Participant

    2Cents:D. The occurrence of autism is almost the same in similar groups, the significant size of the study would make it extremely unlikely that one group had factors that would even it out with any other group, unless you conclude that the MMR plays no factor with regards to autism.

    The FACT that children showing signs of Autism are more likely NOT to get MMR Skews the results!

    You Refuse to answer the question – WHY does EVERY clinical trial use RANDOMIZATION?
    because then you would admit that the study is INVALID because who got the MMR was not randomized – which means that children showing signs of Autism will be concentrated in the NO MMR Group!

    doomsday
    Participant

    2cents: You earlier claimed that genetics play zero role. Yet you know claim otherwise. And now say mmr and genetics play a role.

    WRONG! I NEVER EVER Said genetics played zero role.
    I said Genetics ALONE cannot be the reason autism went from 1:10,000 to 1:50.

    And I don’t say mmr and genetics play a role.
    I say VACCINES and genetics play a role.
    ALL Vaccines can cause Autism – NOT only MMR.

    doomsday
    Participant

    2cents: You claimed that unvaccinated children are healthier, only because at the time it made your position look good, yet now you claim that majority of unvaccinated children are because they have signs of autism.

    Children who are 100% Unvaccinated ARE healthier.
    I said that many PARTIALLY unvaccinated are Autistic. The Vaccines MADE them Autistic and then
    the Parents Stopped Vaccinating so as not to make the Autism worse.

    I said over and over and over that the Autistic Children WERE VACCINATED and you keep
    repeating that they are Unvaccinated.
    Get it through your skull – the Autistic Children WERE Vaccinated.
    Some Autistic Children got the MMR. Some Autisic Children did NOT get the MMR.
    But ALL the Autistic Children got VACCINES!

    There was Not ONE 100% Unvaccinated CHild with AUtism out of 95,000 Records! NOT ONE!

    doomsday
    Participant

    2cents: C. Children with siblings, are not likely to be vaccinated
    Yet they do not have a lower rate of autism, they have the opposite of healthy user bias that you claim.

    The Younger Siblings in the study who got Autism WERE Vaccinated.
    The Younger Siblings in the study who got Autism WERE Vaccinated.
    The Younger Siblings in the study who got Autism WERE Vaccinated.
    The Younger Siblings in the study who got AUtism WERE Vaccinated.

    How many times do I have to tell you that before you stop LYING that the children who got
    Autism were COMPLETELY UNVACCINATED?!?!?!?

    doomsday
    Participant

    2cents: Not sure why you claim that i am ignoring your question.

    Because you are. My question is Why does EVERY Clinical Trial use RANDOMIZATION?

    2cents:Your question is only based on the assumption that the MMR vaccines are only given to children that do not have signs.

    Instead of guessing my motivation, just answer the question.

    A. This is a made up claim.
    And it is not MY assumption – the AUTHORS of the Study said it as well – that children who are showing signs of Autism are more likely NOT to get MMR. Here is the quote from the study:

    β€œβ€œthis pattern is driven by selective parental decision making around MMR immunization, i.e., parents who notice social or communication delays in their children decide to forestall immunization. Because, as a group, children with recognized delays are likely to be at higher risk of ASD, such selectivity could result in a tendency for some higher-risk children to be β€œunexposed” (to the MMR). β€œ

    B. There is no way all children actually have signs that are recognized.

    I NEVER said that all the children who avoided MMR had signs of Autism.
    But that children who show signs of Autism are more likely NOT to get MMR.

    doomsday
    Participant

    2Cents: You have to prove that the theory regarding withholding vaccines for children that were later diagnosed is true.

    HERE it is – the STUDY itself acknowledged that children showing Signs of Autism were more likely
    not to get MMR (but they got OTHER Vaccines):

    “β€œthis pattern is driven by selective parental decision making around MMR immunization, i.e., parents who notice social or communication delays in their children decide to forestall immunization. Because, as a group, children with recognized delays are likely to be at higher risk of ASD, such selectivity could result in a tendency for some higher-risk children to be β€œunexposed” (to the MMR). “

    doomsday
    Participant

    2Cents: c. Their siblings are unlikely to receive ANY vaccines, yet they are more likely to be diagnosed with autism.

    2Cents, Are you going to admit you were WRONG when you claimed the Siblings of Autistic children did not
    receive ANY vaccines?

    doomsday
    Participant

    Health: So you would have to use the Anti-vaxxers, that won’t Vax.
    For the Vaxxers – you would have to do a retroactive study.
    This would be accepted by most normal people on both sides.

    YES! That is what Anti-Vaxxers want – a retrospective study comparing vaxxed vs unvaxxed.
    But CDC REFUSES to do the study – because they KNOW it will show that Vaccines Cause Autism
    and many other diseases.

    Glad you finally agree that a vaxxed vs unvaxxed study SHOULD be done.
    But “CDC” is not “normal people” but is making MILLIONS from Vaccine Industry so REFUSES
    to do Vaxxed vs Unvaxxed and instead makes FRAUDULENT studies that are
    vaxxed vs vaxxed and NOT randomized!

    doomsday
    Participant

    DaasYochid:How many times have you called provaxxers, the CDC, and every other medical organization, including all of the journals which have published studies showing the safety of vaccines, LIARS and FRAUDS?

    Plenty. BUt I SHOWED what the Fraud was very specifically. I didn’t just say “Oh, I don’t accept any
    study by CDC” the way the ProVaxxers say “I don’t accept anything from an anti-vax website” or
    “That scientist/doctor is an Anti-Vaxxer so I don’t accept anything he/she says”.

    THAT’S what you do when you cannot refute the FACTS.

    doomsday
    Participant

    2cents: Your claim that those that gave the MMR vaccine were healthy, yet those that did not receive it were not healthy, has the following problems.

    a. not in line with your position, that autism is genetic and actually has SIGNS (your style of writing) of autism earlier on.
    b. Unsubstantiated and not reality, people that withhold vaccinations do it only after they know their child has autism and buy into the false notion that is to blame for this, as they gave their child the MMR vaccine.
    c. Their siblings are unlikely to receive ANY vaccines, yet they are more likely to be diagnosed with autism.

    I am typing S L O W L Y so maybe you will be able to understand. Maybe.
    Autism has BOTH genetic and environmental (vaccines) factors.
    If a child with a genetic weakness is vaccinated they get Autism.
    If the child with the genetic weakness is NOT vaccinated, most likely will NOT get Autism.

    The older sibling was Vaccinated and got Autism. Doctor denies that it was caused by Vaccines.
    Parents vaccinate younger sibling – and younger sibling shows SIGNS OF AUTISM.
    Parents STOP Vaccinating the younger sibling – doesn’t get MMR.
    But the younger sibling’s Autism was caused by EARLIER Vaccines. Before birth, at birth 2 mo, 4 mo, 6 mo.
    The younger sibling is NOT “unvaccinated” but PARTIALLY Vaccinated.

    You claim that younger siblings did not receive ANY vaccines and got Autism (d).
    NOWHERE in the study does it say that the Younger Siblings did not get ANY Vaccines!
    It only states that the younger siblings did not get MMR.
    So YOUR whole theory falls FLAT – it is based on a WRONG Assumption!

    doomsday
    Participant

    2cents: So your position is that because they got other vaccines, therefore they got autism?
    YES!

    2cents: You are making claims that no one else is making, based on what are these claims, being that these are your own (or some radical blogs) claims, why in the world do you think that someone would make the studies that you want?

    People have been saying that Vaccines are causing Autism (and more) for many years.
    CDC makes FAKE Studies to “prove” that Vaccines do not cause Autism – but the Studies are INVALID,
    as I pointed out because who gets MMR is NOT RANDOM, the children who are showing signs of Autism
    do NOT get MMR and children who appear Normal DO get the MMR. This invalidates the study.

    β€œ2Cents, answer this: Why in EVERY clinical study testing whether a product is safe, is it all RANDOMIZED who gets the product and who does not?”

    Not sure what your question is….blah blah…blah..

    2Cents refuses to answer the question.

    doomsday
    Participant

    2cents: the quotes you posted are usually from sources with no credibility and from people with already established zero credibility.

    Translation: We don’t accept anything from anti-vax doctors or websites.
    But Fraudulent CDC Studies are “Holy” – NOT!

    ProVaxxers – attack the substance, not the source.
    Attacking the Source is what those who cannot refute whine.

    doomsday
    Participant

    Ubiquiton, When a NEW Drug is tested, do they test for safety using another DRUG as a Placebo?
    Or do they use a Sugar Pill or Saline Solution?

    Answer: They use a sugar pill/saline solution as placebo.
    They Test: DRUG VS NO DRUG

    NOT: DRUG VS DRUG

    Yet when it comes to Vaccines ALL THE RULES ARE CHANGED!

    They test Vaxxed vs Vaxxed and REFUSE to do a study Vaxxed vs UnVaxxed!

    Folks, you don’t need to be a Scientist to see the FRAUD!

    doomsday
    Participant

    2Scents: Explain your theory, is that because these parents are not blaming all the vaccines for autism, why would they only be blaming the MMR vaccine, this is not in line with your position.

    WHO said that the parents ONLY blame the MMR Vaccine for Autism?
    ALL Vaccines – including MMR – Raise the Risk of Autism!
    If their child was already showing SIGNS OF AUTISM because of the OTHER Vaccines s/he got,
    why on earth would the Parents give their child MORE VACCINES???? (Like the MMR)

    doomsday
    Participant

    2Scents: I feel that you are confusing your position, autism is caused by vaccines, yet those that did not get vaccinated and were diagnosed with autism, are still unlikely to vaccinate, why?

    The Children who got Autism but No MMR WERE VACCINATED!
    The Children who got Autism but No MMR WERE VACCINATED!
    The Children who got Autism but No MMR WERE VACCINATED!
    The Children who got Autism but No MMR WERE VACCINATED!
    The Children who got Autism but No MMR WERE VACCINATED!

    Folks, See how the ProVaxxers keep LYING that the children who did not get MMR are UNVACCINATED?
    Is MMR the ONLY Vaccine? What about the FLU Vaccine and Dtap given BEFORE BIRTH?
    What about Hepatitus B Vaccine given AT BIRTH?
    What about DTAP and POLIO given at 2 months, 4 months and 6 months?

    No matter how many times I say this, the Pro Vaxxers still keep LYING that the NO MMR GROUP
    is UNVACCINATED! NO – they received Vaccines. They got 3,675 MCG OF ALUMINUM + Other Toxins!

    doomsday
    Participant

    2Cents, answer this: Why in EVERY clinical study testing whether a product is safe, is it all RANDOMIZED who gets the product and who does not?

    doomsday
    Participant

    2cents: Besides, if these children already show signs of autism, why would the MMR vaccine be withheld, as these parents already know that the vaccine has nothing to do with their childs condition.

    Because the Parents feel that the Multiple Vaccines given BEFORE Birth, AT Birth, and as NEWBORNS
    caused their child’s Autism! So why would they continue giving MORE Vaccines? To make their
    child’s Autism WORSE??? Autism is a SPECTRUM Disorder – there are degrees to how severely effected
    a child is.
    If you believe Vaccines caused your child’s Autism you don’t CONTINUE to give MORE Vaccines, Genius!

    doomsday
    Participant

    2scents: β€œIF the MMR was RANDOMIZED, the MMR would have shown a greater rate of Autism.”
    So you conclude prior to seeing the results?

    The Study, if you take into account Healthy User Bias, actually shows MMR raises risk of Autism.
    There should have been significantly MORE autism in the No MMR /Partially Vaccinated group then the MMR group because they did not get MMR because they were already showing SIGNS OF AUTISM.
    Yet the Autism Rate was the SAME.
    Which means that MMR RAISED the Autism Rate to Equal that of a Group that had a high percentage of Children who already showed SIGNS OF AUTISM!

    doomsday
    Participant

    Health: You hold vaccines are more dangerous than the disease that they work against!
    So YOU DO the Study.

    Health, you are not making any sense.
    How can ANYONE do a randomized double blind study -where half the kids would get a vaccine and
    half would get placebo?
    The AntiVaxxers would not let their children participate because they believe vaccines are too dangerous.
    The ProVaxxers would not let their children participate because they believe being Unvaccinated is too dangerous.

    doomsday
    Participant

    Ubiquiton: Regarding why CDC won’t do a Retrospective Vaxxed vs Unvaxxed Study
    I must have given you 5 different explanations several dozen times

    Folks, when Someone claims they answered your question, but is EMBARRASSED to write again the
    explanation, you know the explanations are STUPID. Here are Ubiquiton’s “Explanations”
    (and there are NOT five, and it was not repeated dozens of times)

    1. There WERE Vaxxed vs UnVaxxed Studies!

    When I point out that this is a LIE – that these were Vaxxed vs Vaxxed Studies, NOT Vaxxed vs UnVaxxed,
    Ubiquiton gets Mad that Antivaxxers won’t accept that Vaxxed Children should be called “Unvaxxed” (because they did not receive ONE Vaccine out of Many).

    2. You won’t accept the results of a Vaxxed vs UnVaxxed Study anyway.

    Another LIE! Because Antivaxxers refuse to accept FLAWED Studies such as Vaxxed vs Vaxxed,
    this is used as “Proof” that Antivaxxers would not accept the results of Vaxxed vs Unvaxxed.

    There is only ONE Study that Antivaxxers have consistently asked for: Vaxxed vs Unvaxxed.
    CDC gives NO Explanation on why they will not make this Study – which is the only study that has
    Scientific Validity. The Real Reason is because a Vaxxed vs UnVaxxed Study would PROVE once and for
    all the Vaccines CAUSE Autism – and MANY OTHER Diseases including Cancer, SIDS and Diabetes!
    Just like the Smoker vs NON Smoker PROVED that smoking causes cancer after HIRED SCIENTISTS DENIED!

    CDC keeps making Vaxxed vs Vaxxed and FRAUDULENTLY calling them Vaxxed vs Unvaxxed
    because a Vaxxed Child did not get ONE vaccine out of Many!
    In these studies it is NOT RANDOMIZED (who stops vaccinating) so the studies are BOGUS!

    doomsday
    Participant

    Doomsday: β€œThe Healthy User Bias in this study is that HEALTHY Normal kids are more likely to USE the MMR and Autistic Kids are more likely NOT to get the MMR. Agree?”

    Ubiquiton: No, because you’ve got the study backwards. Again we are looking if autism develops AFTER mmr. Did you even glance at the study? Are you reading my posts?

    Yes I read the study and read your posts.
    Are you reading mine? Or just incapable of comprehension?

    YES, we are looking if Autism Develops AFTER MMR – and yes, some children developed Autism AFTER
    getting MMR.
    How do you know if it WAS the MMR and not some other factor?
    You compare the RATE of Autism with children who did NOT get the MMR.

    But in EVERY Clinical Trial, who gets the Tested Ingredient is ALWAYS RANDOM because of Healthy User Bias (and other confounding factors)!
    Since this study was NOT Randomized, there are MORE Children who developed Autism in the
    NO MMR Group /partially Vaxxed because the parents refused MMR when they saw SIGNS OF AUTISM.

    This Healthy User Bias HIDES that MMR INCREASES risk of Autism which would have been apparent
    had the MMR Vaccine been RANDOMIZED!
    And CDC DELIBERATELY uses FLAWED Studies to produce FAKE PROOF of Vaccine Safety!

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