Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Yenta – “but then i realized you have something against the female gender” Is Not the same as:
“i said i was less insulted personally because you do this to all women”
The first quote Is Not True! Why would you say this?
yentingyenta -“and what was the lie in my post?”
It’s in quotation marks in my post to you. Btw, I have nothing against females.
Yid? -“a) What makes you call me an MO Jew,”
Ok, you’re a Frei Yid! Happy now?
“and why would that make me any less capable of pointing out your inconsistencies?”
Ok, I’m waiting -Name them!
“b) Excuse me, but where did President Joel say that MO is different than “Orthodox”?”
Talk about inconsistencies -When did I mention it was Joel?
Read my above post!
BTW, I’m just curious is this guy Joel religious -ya know Shomer Shabbos?
SW -“A quote out of context is not worth all that much. You, unfortunately, didn’t even give us a quote. A paraphrase out of context is REALLY not worth all that much.”
Ok here is the quote:
“Since he was dealing with a religious matter, Dr. Lamm said he was speaking as the president of Yeshiva’s affiliated seminary, the Rabbi Isaac Elchanan Theological Seminary, which trains rabbis in the centrist philosophy.
Like more zealous Jews, he said, centrist Orthodoxy follows the halacha, or traditional law, as spelling out ”the authoritative norm for daily conduct,” including Sabbath observance and adherence to kosher dietary laws as well as moral and ethical behavior.
But, unlike what he called the right wing, Dr. Lamm said the centrist group is open to secular culture, is unabashedly Zionist and values tolerance of different opinions.
These principles, he said, are embodied at Yeshiva University where, in accordance with the theme of ”Torah Umadda” – religious principles and secular knowledge – undergraduates pursue dual curriculums of liberal arts education and Jewish studies. Hasidic and other right-wing institutions frown on secular knowledge beyond that necessary to earn a living.
”For us, the study of worldly wisdom enhances Torah,” Dr. Lamm said. ”It reveals not a lowering of the value of Torah in the hierarchy of values, but a symbiotic or synergistic view.”
”For those of us in the centrist camp, Torah Umadda does not imply the coequality of the two poles. Torah remains the unchallenged and pre-eminent center of our lives, our community, our value system. But centrality is not the same as exclusivity.” Ultra-Orthodox Position
Dr. Lamm said the ultra-Orthodox has been ”powered by triumphalism,” which he defined as an attitude of, ”We are winning, therefore we are right.”
When asked for an example of how this group sets the Jewish agenda, he mentioned the effort in Israel to pass legislation that would recognize only Orthodox conversions for those wishing to enter the country as Jews. Without mentioning names, he said certain Hasidic elements have ”set the ‘who is a Jew’ question as the highest priority of political action.”
Dr. Lamm said he hoped that the ”who is a Jew” legislation, which has been defeated in the Israeli Knesset, does not come up again.”
I didn’t quote the whole article, but this enough.
Paragraph 1 -This is they way they train all the Rabbis.
Next paragraph – values secular culture & tolerance of different opinions.
And we see what that means later on. He tolerates conservative & reform conversions. This means he either holds of their conversions -not acc. to Halacha or he finds no problem calling these conversions Jews so innocent/ignorant (Am Haarazim) will possibly end up marrying them, even though they are Goyim.
Need I say more?
“I’m pretty sure that all of Touro’s programs have had many dozens of students – mentioning which one you went to or had something to do with will hardly incriminate you. Certainly if this program, as you say, was SO popular that they had to limit the number of entrants to it, you will not be incriminating yourself”
You seem to post your comments w/o either reading mine or understanding mine. Posting any personal info in this web site has been used by others here for nefarious purposes. I’ve posted too much info about myself already to add anymore. Try to understand my point -it doesn’t mean what I’m saying is false!
Obviously if I thought your opinion about Touro was more important than my privacy -I’d post it anyway. But alas, I don’t really care that much about your opinion regarding Touro!
hello99 -I always heard if the product is Kli Bsoch Kli, you can cook in a non-kosher microwave, agree?
shoshanaz -There was nothing wrong with having a relationship and going to see him off. I don’t understand the guilt feeling that you have coming across your post.
“The rabbi never said a word.”
I don’t understand why he should. A lot of Rabbis don’t give emotional support -that’s the job of friends, family, even therapists.
Shvartza Wolf -I’ll take your comments at face value and respond.
“What are you talking about?”
I read either online or in the papers how the Rabbi??, Doctor, chief of YU said that!
“Sorry; I’m not buying it.”
I really don’t expect the Touro haters to believe anything I wrote.
“And somehow I doubt that telling us which program you heard something about will be akin to giving out too much personal information.”
Perhaps, if I did -it would reveal which program I went to or had something to do with. As it is I’ve revealed too much info here about myself for the stalkers to gather!
“What a pity. I feel so bad that people forced you to do what you didn’t want to do.”
Despite your sarcasm, I did my utmost to keep it civil at the begining and still trying to keep the tone down, in spite of the two things that I’ve posted.
Avram in MD -“Or maybe they’re just not educated enough about the issues… “
Seems a little hypocritical to me -only the ones whom don’t make it on time to the hospital are the educated ones and know to avoid the hospital at all costs; but the vast majority of women who decide to give birth in the hospital instead of waiting till the last minute or going to a birthing center are the uneducated ones!
“My wife convinced me.”
So now you are her spokesman! I’m not so against birthing centers as you would think. But she can come here and post her opinions about birthing places herself! Actually there is a topic in the CR that discusses this. It would be more appropiate to post it over there than in this topic.
Nurse -“What?? I didn’t want to post here again,”
So why did you?
“but do you understand what you are writing?”
Yes, I do!
“RB is not your child and he definitely does not need to be told off by you.”
And I’m not your child and I definitely Don’t need to be told off by You!
“Like I wrote previously, if you disagree with a poster or see that what they’re writing is incorrect, you can write your post respectfully. Calling someone a ‘chochom’ when you know that in essence you are calling him a dummy, is completely unnecessary, disrespectful and insulting.”
So true! But how come you don’t Practice what You Preach?
Yenta – I don’t see why you feel the need to lecture me -you’re not my mother.
The first way of posting doesn’t bother me, if you feel so inclined -you can post like that. But it has a lie in it – “but then i realized you have something against the female gender so not so insulted anymore”! And lying just makes your point look disgenuine, even if you had a real point!
Yid (MO Jew)-“And then you continue to put down the whole institution – and then you stopped making sense in your last two lines.
I think anybody reading this thread who sees the way people either defend or are pro YU and Touro would be put off by your absurd attacks and straw man defenses.”
You keep trying to bait me to defend myself and to keep putting YU down. I wasn’t interested in doing that from the begining and am still not really interested in putting down other Jews.
But you leave me no choice -so I will say a little bit. The President of YU has openly declared that MO is different than orthodoxy. To me that is saying we are like the Conservatives and Reformers and can bend Halacha when we Feel like it. What “Yeshiva”(???) do you know that openly has a Forum about “Toaivahniks”?
I wanted to keep this discussion of YU vs. Touro as civil as possible, but you won’t leave go. So I posted a little bit -I’m not interested in getting into a bash YU party.
Frum or Not?- “YU is decent. This is the perception out there. US news rankings proves this point.”
YU might be decent for academics, but I posted a good Yeshiva (NIRC) where you can go to top Universities, but you keep avoiding that point! I wonder why?!?
“In the secular world the only things that stand out about Touro are not good things.”
Again Motzay Shem Ra. You haven’t brought any proof. But do you really think I care how much you spout your hatred towards them?
The problem is you can influence others with your lies.
I won’t tell you which program because it will end up giving out too much personal info, but one of Touro’s programs had the best reputation in the whole nation and they had to start testing to eliminate people applying to the program. Which was the first time they ever had to implement such a pre-condition. It was always Touro’s policy to let in e/o and to give e/o a chance, but they couldn’t handle the extreme # of applicants -so they made a new policy for this program. So because they always gave e/o a chance -maybe you got the impression that the classes were dumbed down. By and far, this isn’t the case and the school has failed out many students or made students repeat classes!
Aries -My point was -She went to the cops after the fire -why not go after the molester? Acc. to my info -it was the molester who made the fire.
I don’t like that Rabbonim aren’t doing their utmost, but ultimately it’s the family responsibilty. Why hasn’t she tried to prosecute this guy for 1.Molestation, 2. Arson ?
Aries -“Ask Rivka Finkelstein how it came about that her house burned down on Pesach after a notice was spread about her dead son’s molestation.”
First of all, her house wasn’t burnt down entirely, just a small part, but how come she hasn’t come back? Also, she or s/o spread a rumor that the Frum mafia burnt it down, because they didn’t like what she was saying, which doesn’t appear to have any truth to it. It seems that it was the molester himself. Which brings us to another question, why didn’t she prosecute the guy when her son was alive? She only started going to the police after his death -(This is my assumption because they never arrested anybody for the original crime [or for the arson neither] -had he gave testimony to a grand jury or even if they video taped him -they probably would have gone forward with a trial even though he died.)
Nechoma -You make some interesting points.
“Maybe if I had known than regular contractions coming every 10 minutes for a multipara would be the signal to go to the hospital, I might have gone earlier, but I’m not 100% sure.”
But there definitely is the possibility that you would have made it.
I read this topic and I started wondering -why do Frum women not make it on time to the hospital? So I theorized that it’s due to lack of education more than the Goyim. If s/o goes and teaches e/o does that mean noone will deliver in the pre-hospital arena? Of course not, but maybe we can lower the rates. Your theory about people not wanting to go early -I don’t think is the reason by most, even though I empathize with you being stuck on the bed. Most women stick up for themselves and don’t let them get pushed around like that. If they can’t, they hire a doula -which nowadays is very popular. If people were so scared of hospitals they wouldn’t wait till the last minute to go and perhaps have the baby w/o anyone to deliver the kid, they would just arrange to give birth in a birthing center.
I’m just trying to make people aware that there is a problem amongst Frum women who aren’t delivering in the hospital as much as they should. Frier’s solution isn’t a solution because even if e/o was on board with her idea (Hatzola, etc.) -the child is still not being born in the best environment. But she is a lawyer, not a doctor and all she knows is what she is hearing from her friends that they were embarassed to call Hatzola. So she thinks the only problem is Tznius. Whether it should be a birthing center or a hospital that should be the individual’s decision. But it shouldn’t be a non-planned home birth or in the back of the bus (ambulance)! I tried to come up with a more logical solution than her.
yid.period -Another YU guy trying to twist the truth.
“And the reality is, if one is an employee of the school, they represent the school, the same way the students who attend the institution do. They were hired/ accepted to attend by those people in charge. I don’t know where you get your line of reasoning.”
Ok, next time one your employees gets caught stealing -we will put you in Jail. Some parts of your posts are so outrageous, I’m not even going to respond to them. But my posts originally about YU -I posted like that because I didn’t want to outright put them down. But the truth is there are many problematic Hashkofos coming from the top. You know good and well the Rosh Hayeshivos there are hired hands -so even if they are exemplary -they don’t represent the school! Stop trying to fool the world! And even if you can, you can’t fool me!
strivefortruth – And all the Touro bashing doesn’t bother you? Why not say anyone who is considering going there to talk to someone actually there and not base their decision on rumors and sterotypes? That’s if you were really striving for the truth, not just defending YU!
frumnotyeshivish – “You are assuming that me saying the value of THE DEGREE is diminished, means that I am attacking or indicting the school or its administrators for something. This is a leap that it would seem only you took.”
Saying a school is bad (not valuable degree) is attacking the people who own the school. There is no leap here -that’s what you did.
“I was pointing out that Touro is famous but not for a good thing, thereby negatively affecting their reputation and the value of their degree. I have done some research on this issue and the reputation of Touro took a hit.”
I frankly don’t believe you – post your research! Unless it was at that time -where I already posted they had a bad reputation then, but what does that have to do with the here & now?
“Regardless of who did or didn’t do anything. I never attacked anyone. You did.”
You attacked the school and whether you meant well or not, since it wasn’t based on anything the owners did, it most probably is Motzay Shem Ra.
RB – You know exactly what I mean. It’s not that you just posted w/o thinking -it’s that people will believe it. So sometimes people need to be told off. Maybe your posting here because you get kicks out of it, but a lot of topics are very important.
There is a problem amonst Frum women -that a lot can’t make it on time to the hospital for delivery. Freier had one solution -I had another. Denying the problem just excuses e/o from not doing anything!
Aries – I know some perps too, even though noone in my family was ever a victim. There are bad things that go on amongst us and I’m not even going to mention things I know for a variety of reasons. I wish I could say molestation was the worse. All I can say is one day everyone will have to answer for what they did down here and for what they didn’t do.
the.nurse -Your last post is practicing what you preach.
See I’m not the ogre e/o thinks I am -I just gave a compliment. 🙂
yentingyenta -“have i had bruised feelings from health? yes i have.”
Sorry, I probably didn’t mean it.
“but i have learned not to take it personally.”
Good!
“i don’t know what happened between health and nechomah,”
I didn’t Personally insult her, but some posters here decided I did and called me out on it.
“RB,”
I did, but not for my kicks as I explained above.
“Avrom, and the.nurse”
They are some of the posters who called me out on it.
“health, i ask you please not to take what i am about to say too personally. sometimes your posts come across as harsh and demeaning,”
Sometimes they are meant to and sometimes not. But it’s all for good reason.
frumnotyeshivish – It would have been better if you actually didn’t have a Yeshiva education because at least you would have an excuse. But using your Torah knowledge to say/write whatever you want makes the Aveirah so much worse!
To defend yourself you state:
“I didn’t say to deal with the FACT that what I said is not LH I told you to deal with the reality that Touro’s bad name affect the value of their degrees in this world.”
I’ve been out in the real world, just like you, and not e/o thinks bad about Touro because of that incident. As matter of fact, no Goy I know of, thinks that degrades the value of their degree. Oh, I know plenty in the Frum community who use that to put down Touro, but so what?
“To summarize the Lashon Hora if there is a Toeles(which there is)and not publicizing anything (which I didn’t) and not discussing individuals (which I didn’t) it is not LH.”
Something that is a figment of your imagination – that that incident devalues their degree doesn’t make it a Toeles! At the time it was happenning -maybe it would have been a good idea to refrain from going because noone knew how far up it went, but not now!
“Motzi Shem Ra is classically referring to something which is untrue.”
Yes and to implicate the school because of this incident in Untrue. I just posted that the people in charge of the school were Not involved. So they are the only ones who represent the school, none of their employees do if not acting on their behalf!
So by using this incident to put down the school is Motzay Shem Ra, because the individuals involved did not represent the school!
Actually if you went to YU and your Krumkeit is due to that fact of attending there, you gave the public the best reason -Not to go!
yitayningwut -I’m not going to just bash Rabbonim -some are good and some aren’t. But you said you are close to a few -maybe mention my idea, if they are truly pro-protection of kids they will grab it up because I see no damage to anyone (in reality, not theory) by implementing my plan in Yeshivos. They do want to protect kids -don’t they?
YW Moderator-72 -“Everything you state as fact is nothing more than your opinion.”
Why are you posting this as a Chidush? Since We are all anonymous -our posts are just opinions!
And btw, when I “copy and paste” from a medical site -it’s a fact, even if you disagree! (Unless you have proof from another valid medical site -that agrees with you!)
“It’s funny how you can judge other posters here and their knowledge base from their posts without even knowing them.
Did you ever hear of the Jewish concept of being Dan L’caf Z’cus? Esp. since you never saw any of the posters on the diabetes thread or this thread as real patients?!!”
Where did I not judge up anybody L’caf Zecus including Diabetics?
“The only difference is I removed the redundancies (google it for the definition*) and fixed some of the grammar.
* this comment didn’t have to be included and was probably inappropriate but once again I couldn’t resist.”
Did the guys from the Yeshiva, when you where there, think that you were a riot? Does your wife and others (family, friends) constantly tell you how funny you are? If they do, that’s their opinion, Not Mine!
the.nurse – “Health –
You talk about being don l’kaf zchus others and are upset people are ‘bashing’ you.”
It’s ok, you can bash me as much as you want – if this is how you get your kicks. Just tell me -why do you keep jumping onto the bandwagon here -do you have something against me?
If you are not married – if and when you do find a spouse – you will have a hard time getting along with him/her – if you only see the negative in people.
“Let me use your own words:
To real-brisker: “RB – Maybe you should change your name to Chochom from the Ma Nish Taneh? I actually was waiting for s/o to post what you wrote. I wonder how many people believe you?”…And the next thing some Chochom will write is that they all plan their births.”
I called him out for a reason, not for my kicks. He was suffering from an acute case of “posting before thinking syndrome”!
“To yentingyenta: “Well thank you. Did you ever see this or are you just quoting your nursing textbook?”
This actually was Not a rank out. I wanted to know if she saw this in the clinical world. Maybe the “Well, thank you” was a little sarcastic.
“To nechomah: “Since you claim to be well educated, (which could be true, but I’m not so sure)”.. And again “Sorry to say, I don’t feel that you are very educated.”
Read My Post to Avram!
“There is a way to disagree that’s respectful, and a way to disagree that is insulting and sarcastic/degrading.”
You should Practice what you Preach!
Avram -“I’ve never done a poll.”
Neither have I, but considering most births occur in the hospital -I’d say most women aren’t that negative about it as you!
“Excellent suggestions for normal, healthy pregnancies.”
So – have you even convinced your family members to go this route?
“No, I’m not talking about that. I’m talking about what you said to Nechomah:”
“Sorry to say, I don’t feel that you are very educated.”
“That was a personal attack.”
Again, if you stand it alone -you can call it that. But that isn’t the case. She claimed to be different than everyone else even though she delivered outside of the hospital. I took her word on that, but asked her why she thinks she is more educated than others. After she posted her story, it didn’t seem she really had that much education. So my theory still stands. If you want to call this a personal attack -go ahead if this what makes you happy!
yid.period
“Because I’m Jewish I’m Jewish I’m Jewish Jewish Jewish Jewish!”
Ok, ok, ok, ok, but are you Frum?
“Chill out bro. Are you on Touro’s payroll or something? You seem to be taking this very personally.”
No, I’m not or ever was. I take things like this personally because Chazal state that we are in Golus because of LH. Even though everybody speaks it -we should still try and take LH seriously. I’m actually surprised that I’m the only one on the YESHIVA World Web page to call him out on this!
PBA – I already conceded to that possibility, but I’m not sure why certain colleges are listed in national rankings & others in regional. It would be much simpler to figure out which is above the other if there was just one list.
MOD -“I’d like to see one of you clowns trying to decide whether to go to the police and perhaps destroy an innocent rebbi and his family since nobody will ever believe he is innocent even if there is no evidence, versus maybe allowing him to molest other kids.”
There is definitely not an easy solution to this question, but why does it have to be either or?
What happens when a police officer is accused of something? I’ll tell you the first thing they do is put him on Desk Duty. This is until an investigation takes place. It’s not a presumption of guilt or innocence! After an investigation -if he’s innocent -he is reinstated, if not, he is prosecuted.
If we really care about protecting our kids -the same thing should be done in Yeshivos. If s/o is accused -he is taken away from any contact with kids and given another job. If he is found to have “Reglayim L’dovor” he is prosecuted, if not -he is reinstated. And don’t tell me we can’t sometimes figure it out -one way or another. Because even if we don’t have the answer -we can keep him in the desk job.
Most people who are Frum that even if they find out about the accusations will not destroy the person. How do I know this? Because even Perps who have been accused and are presumed Guilty & are still in their current positions – there isn’t any outcry or destruction of the person’s family.
Why? Because e/o is in denial!
So IMHO – I think the leaders who are supposedly trying to deal with these issues are too Nogieah B’dovor. They are too much intertwined with Yeshivos. What is the answer? How come they won’t do my simple suggestion? Perhaps we have to make a panel of Rabbonim who have No Negious to any Yeshiva whatsoever?!?!
frumnotyeshivish -“When something is all over the news, one may repeat it. Deal with it.”
Since you didn’t have the benefit of a Yeshiva education (presumably – because you claim to be “Frum”, not Yeshivish!) -you never learnt Chofetz Chaim.
He said even repeating something in the “News” is Loshon Hora! In this case you used this piece of LH to denigrate the school (because – why else mention it on this topic?) -this is called Motzay Shem Ra!
This is an Issur from the Torah (Transgression)!
Deal with this!
mod-72 (Retired) to health: “This is called a personal attack. When you question the intelligence or education level of another poster it is called a personal attack.”
Read my post to AVRAM!
“because all you discuss is the straight “science” – you take out the human equation.”
That is your opinion. It’s funny how you can Judge me up about my empathy on the human equation from my posts without even knowing me personally. I guess you got a sixth sense from formerly being a Mod. Did you ever hear of the Jewish concept of being Dan L’caf Zecus? Esp. since you never saw me actually deal with a real patient?!!
“each of my posts has to do with your current comments – the only history is the reminding everybody what you said about yourself being a student of health sciences – which I interpret as a person who can google, cut and paste”
You’re doing a good job of constantly reminding e/o of this.
Read my post to Yenta and you’ll understand why I don’t post more about myself. You’re a classic example!
And the reason I like to “cut and paste” is because I can avoid -the “Who says? -Prove it.” comments that e/o posts. I did already by cutting & pasting.
I even got that comment here -when I said that EMS home delivery is a rare occasion by the Goyim!
miritchka – Thanks.
Avram in MD -“I’d probably want to wait until the very last minute to go to the hospital, too.”
Somehow I don’t think most people have the same negative feelings about hospitals, medical personell, esp. those in the OB Dept., as you do. If your observations were correct -why is it only the Frum women whom wait till the last minute -everybody should?!
Also, your assumption about treatment for childbirth -if you really believe what you posted and all others that think like you -why use them? The last I heard was this was a free country -you don’t have to go to the hospital -you can deliver at home. And esp. nowadays they have birthing centers where you are only treated by midwives and not doctors, NP’s or PA’s!
Make sure to tell all your female family members when they have babies -to make sure not to use hospitals for delivery -only the other options!
“-this is Not a personal attack!
Yes it was.”
Avram -So acc. to your train of thought -I personally attacked every Frum woman who didn’t always make it on time to the hospital to deliver. So I guess they should all come here and bash me.
yenta -“health, why are you so secretive about your role in medicine?”
I wouldn’t be so secretive, but talking about it will give away who I am. Some people here use any personal info against you.
Suffice it to say that I’ve been trained in more than one area.
I wouldn’t even answer this question to anybody else, but I feel you are being honest about yourself.
PBA -“I have proof. The US News and World Report ranks Yeshiva College as number 45. Touro is nowhere close (I dont know ranking)”
I understand, but this isn’t Proof! The USN&WR doesn’t mention Touro in their national rankings only in their regional. YU is in the national. Why some are graded in national & some are graded in regional? – I don’t know. For some reason the mag puts you in one or the other, not in both. I’m sure the mag has a reason.
So you are making an assumption that Touro would be behind YU – if they just put every college into national rankings.
Again though – let’s assume that YU is a higher level of academics than Touro -I still wouldn’t go there. If you are looking for a regular Yeshiva type of learning and regular Yeshiva Hashkofas and very good academics -go to Ner Yisroel.
There you can go to Johns Hopkins (which is #13 on the national scale) or to Loyola (which is #3 in regional rankings). Some from NIRC go to Towson for whatever reasons they have, even if doesn’t compare to the other two schools.
Go to Touro if you are already in a Yeshiva and want to get a college education or you finished Yeshiva and are a Ben Torah and need Parnassa. It’s convenient for Frum Jews whom live in the NYC
metro area!
kfb -“Health- It’s not Motzei sheim ra, we’re trying to help people who think touro and YU are equal in their level of academics and recognition in the real world.”
Trying to twist out of what you did wrong, huh?
I was talking about you mentioning their scandal and you know it!
Avram in MD – Perhaps you didn’t learn this when you were younger, but you should read all the posts before you comment. I had made a theory on why Frum women don’t make it on time to deliver at the hospital. I posted that they weren’t educated enough in this area. I included in that theory this poster -this is Not a personal attack!
Nechomah – “Please note that he started with the personal attack. I didn’t post here just to have to “prove myself”.”
You aren’t being exactly honest to the posters and to yourself.
Maybe you should read back all the posts. I started with a theory that women in the Frum community aren’t educated enough and therefore have home deliveries. You posted that this wasn’t true by you. Maybe you didn’t mention me by name, but you were arguing on my comment. I therefore challenged you to prove it.
After you telling your story it seemed that you waited to the last minute to go to the hospital and therefore didn’t make it. This points to a lack of education. There was nothing personal in my comments to you. You might have taken my comments personally because the story you were relating was about you -so maybe your emotions got the best of you!
2scents – The constant bashing from Mod 72 started when I first came to this site and posted on the topic of Diabetes. I don’t remember what I posted, but he took it personally. And ever since then he has been making comments about me being just a guy who cuts and pastes and just a “student of the health sciences”. I honestly don’t remember what I posted, but even if I was wrong -he doesn’t remember that the Torah says -Thou shouldn’t keep a grudge!
yenta -“i understood it the first time around.”
I figured you did -that’s why I posted “You or (even Me) can explain it. ;)”!
Yenta – And I thought Medical jargon was English.
So if they don’t understand something they can look it up or You or even Me can explain it. 😉
frumnotyeshivish -“I didn’t say Touro was responsible – I said they’re famous for the scandal. That lowers the respect for a Touro degree in the world. Calling someone not frum for stating a fact that is not in any way Lashon Hora, even if it unpleasant for you to hear it, is silly.”
Who said it’s not LH? You just admitted that it lowers the respect for the school. From learning CC, it most certainly is. Actually it’s Motzay Shem Ra, because the administration never condoned these people’s behavior. So by posting (repeating) it here -you are being Motzay Shem Ra. I’ll translate -your giving them a bad name and for No reason!
hockaroundtheclock
Hock n roll! –
+1
Nechomah -“Health, I just wanted to get back and answer your question, although I feel no need to “prove myself” that I am educated in these matters.”
Sorry to say, I don’t feel that you are very educated.
“Until you have personally birthed a baby, I wouldn’t start to give advice about who is educated and who isn’t.”
So you’re the type that only uses female OB’s or midwives. I know male OB’s whom are more competent than others including females. And also, not all female OB’s have had kids. Btw, I’m not an OB.
“Standard advice is to wait until contractions are between 6-8 minutes apart.”
This is definitely not the Standard advice!
From Sutter Health’s website:
“Most physicians and midwives suggest contacting them when your contractions are five minutes apart and lasting 60 seconds and you have had this activity for about an hour.” (Some say four minutes.)
“I will say that I had been having a lot of contractions, but they were all about 10 minutes apart, not what I would consider to be a dire emergency to run to the hospital. I thought I still had at least a few hours. Suddenly, I would say in the matter of 5 minutes, I went into very strong labor and could barely move in my house and think clearly enough to deal with the situation I was in.”
Your lack of knowledge is what caused you to deliver outside the hospital. You falsely believed the Standard, even your Standard which is more on the lenient side is not what I would call -The Truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. But we can’t educate e/o – we don’t have the time – so therefore the Standard.
Here is what the Family Practice notebook writes about triaging s/o calling & saying that they are in labor:
“Indications: Evaluation at Labor and Delivery”
(obviously in hospital)
“General
Unable to speak during 2 contractions during triage
Suspected Rupture of Membranes
Nulliparous patient
Contractions every 5 minutes
Multiparous patient
Contractions every 8-10 minutes”
During active labor is when patients are admitted to L & D (Hospital).
So what is active labor?
Again from FPN:
“Background
Stage 1 of Labor is divided into two phases
Latent Phase
Active Phase
Assumes regular, frequent palpable contractions
Phase: Latent
Definition
Cervical dilation <4 cm and
Regular contractions
Normal Progress
Nulliparous women
Mean duration: 8.6 hours
Maximum normal duration: 20 hours
Multiparous women
Maximum normal duration: 14 hours
Management
Avoid hospitalization in latent labor
Maximize hydration
Facilitate rest and supportive environment
Phase: Active
Definition
Cervical dilation >4 cm and
Regular contractions
Normal Progress
Nulliparous women
Cervical Dilation: >1.2 cm/hour
Fetal Descent: >1 cm/hour
Multiparous women
Cervical Dilation: >1.5 cm/hour
Fetal Descent: >2 cm/hour”
Had you realized that active labor can be even every 8 -10 minutes and the contractions are around a minute -45 seconds is also good -you would have left for the hospital earlier.
The main thing is that the contractions during the latent phase aren’t so strong and aren’t coming like clockwork (necessarily). The active stage is when those contractions don’t let you do anything else like Shmuz on the phone, blog, etc., during one!
Either they hurt or they are intense.
2scents -“however in the Orthodox community people call Hatzala NOT because they are not informed or did not go to a doctor. only because they waited till the last minute.
is it the right thing to do? no! but thats what they do.”
After all your argumentative posts, you finally agreed with me!
And that’s why I posted Freier & company are better off starting an org. that educates people about this. The only difference is -that I was Dan everybody L’caf Zecus and said they were uneducated to the fact of when to go to the hospital!
Shvartza Wolf -“Not having been a student in both of the institutions under discussion, let me just point out that I believe that the assertions that Touro is as good academically as YU are false. I don’t have proof.” “By the way, I didn’t denigrate Touro.”
Saying that Touro is not as good academically as YU without any proof is Denigration. I’d never say that Touro is better than YU because Ya know why? I don’t have any proof!
“If I may, why do you love Touro so much?”
I actually don’t, but I can’t stand Motzay Shem Ra! If s/o who is knowledgeable (eg. former student or current one) wrote something negative about them which was true and for a Toielless – I wouldn’t have a problem with it!
yitayningwut -“The rabbanim get unduly bashed and vilified.”
From personal experience -some Rabbonim get unduly bashed and vilified – others are just like their name Ra -Bonim (bad kids).
But it seems that even though there are only a few like this, they throw their power around and protect bad people. Even one bad person being protected can hurt countless others!
wanderingchana -“Get a new rav… hmmm…”
If anybody wants -I’ll become their Rov. Maybe I’ll change careers -if the price is right!
I think most people just want Rabbonim to yell about things that has nothing to do with them. Eg. – No computer in the house -they love when the Rabbi is yelling about the Net. So on and so on.
originial thinker – Not only are you an originial thinker, but you are also an originial speller!
DIEING??? Perhaps you meant dying? Or dyeing?
I’m very scared about dyeing. I can’t for the life of me understand why people tatoo their whole bodies or dye their hair color, except those that can’t stand gray!
Who remembers -“Wash that gray -right out of my hair -I’ll wash that gray right out …”?