Menachem Shmei

If you’re so against Limudei Chol why do you believe in a Rebbe who went to two universities?

Tanya (ch. 8) explains that there is a difference between a regular person studying חכמת האומות and a true talmid chacham and tzaddik who learns as a tool to increase his Torah study, such as the Rambam, Ramban, etc.

The Rebbe strongly opposed university study for most people.

Rabbi Sacks said that the Rebbe studied Hitler and declared that Hitler tried to kill all the Jews so he’ll save all the Jews.

The Rebbe never “studied Hitler”. You should never make up historical facts about ANYONE, how much more so about a tzaddik like the Rebbe.

Rabbi Sacks was actually just saying a nice vertel in a speech, these are his words: “I’ve speculated on this, and I thought this – maybe I’m wrong, but I think not – because he was the first Rebbe to become Rebbe after the Holocaust. And how can you redeem a world that had witnessed Hitler? And the Rebbe did something absolutely extraordinary; he said to himself: if the Nazis searched out every Jew in hate, we will search out every Jew in love.”

Of course, Qwerty insists on changing around this vertel to disrespect the holy tzaddik.

Hitler taught his people that they were the master race. Lubavitchers openly states that they are better than all other Jews.

Qwerty, have you been reading David Duke’s Jewish Supremacism lately? Or maybe you’re a secret follower of Candace Owens and Nick Fuentes?

[BTW, no Lubavitcher thinks he is better than all other Jews. I know my personal chesronos and I assume many Jews are better people than me in many ways. We do think that the Lubavitcher derech is the best derech, or else we wouldn’t follow it. I assume that you believe that your derech is the best derech.]

The Rebbe had two brothers…

Your hate and chutzpa grows from day to day.

Btw if anyone runs into Shmei send him my checkmate.

Says the one who begs me to condemn Seichel’s “many statements” yet can’t even point to one specific post.

Seichel stated more than once that he takes the Gemara which says that Yaakov is god literally.

Which post of sechel are you referring to?
(Date, time, post number)

Shmei had a chance to prove he’s Jewish by calling out Seichel’s idolatry.

Sure!
Which post of sechel are you referring to?
(Date, time, post number)

And I know Lubavitcher that do this (because that is what they’re taught)

I literally wrote that: “No (credible) source at all, and I think it’s ridiculous. I know some people who do this, and they were never able to explain this strange custom to me”

ARSo,

Welcome back!

Funny, I actually agree with everything that you said here!
Congratulations on some of the most logical points in this thread!

To break it down:

When someone says that a person who others assume has died is “with us physically” what does it mean?

The most common understanding is that his spiritual life is felt very much in our day-to-life, living with his teachings, guidance, etc. (תניא אגה”ק סי’ כז).

Even Yaakov Avinu lo meis – what does it mean? To me, from the gemara in Sotah 13a, it seems that he was alive but his soul was in his body,

This meaning is a bit more farfetched, but as you pointed out, it is in Gemara after all, and this is how Rashi explains it (Yaakov was physically alive, but he SEEMED dead -Taanis 5b, and this is also implied from the story of Chushim in Sotah, as you referenced) so I guess it’s not completely crazy if someone believes this about a tzaddik.

it seems that he was alive but his soul was in his body, and not that he was in 770 or elsewhere.

This is obviously the meaning. ר’ יוחנן doesn’t argue on the fact that Yaakov was buried in מערת המכפלה etc., rather he says that all of this WAS DONE because he seemed to be dead, but despite all of this he was alive (obviously miraculously).

So without dissembling, what does it mean when someone says the L rebbe is alive physically.

If someone makes this (farfetched) point, it MUST mean that the Rebbe was buried at the ohel (since halacha mandates that we follow what our eyes see, even if Torah tells us that the truth is different, which is why Yaakov was buried etc. even according to Rashi’s opinion, as the Rebbe himself explained לקו”ש חל”ה שיחת ויחי), and that is where he is now, not physically walking around 770, which is ridiculous.

I know many, many people who believe that the Rebbe is alive physically (like Rashi Taanis 5b about Yaakov Avinu) and all go to the ohel all the time.

Those who don’t go to the ohel and say that the Rebbe is physically in 770 are usually very dimwitted teenagers (though there are exceptions. As you may have seen in the video posted earlier of Rabbi Noam Wagner – who is a true gaon in nigleh and chassidus – he seems to be a bit wishy washy on the subject (though he himself goes to the ohel often) and I have confronted him about it without receiving a satisfactory answer).

[This doesn’t mean that a Lubavitcher won’t feel a special connection to the Rebbe in 770 as well, as the Rebbe Rayatz wrote that the place where a tzaddik learned and davened retains his holiness after his passing.

Another point is about Rabbeninu Hakadosh visiting his home after his passing to make kiddush, but b’pashtus he was usually buried in his kever, unless seen elsewhere.]

2. Goral Hagra was transmitted from the Gra himself, which is why it is called that (surprise, surprise). What is the source for using the LR’s igros to answer questions?

No (credible) source at all, and I think it’s ridiculous. I know some people who do this, and they were never able to explain this strange custom to me (though none of them take the advice %100, and will use it more as food for thought for general guidance, and ask a mashpia for practical behavior).

Finally, don’t quote me anecdotal stories about people putting kvitlech in seforim of their Rebbes, and having answers and/or yeshuos. I believe that many of those stories are in fact true, but that is not the same as reading what the sefer says when it is opened at random and deciding what it means on a personal level.

Completely agree. Obviously, there is a concept of hashgacha protis, so if someone is going through a challenge and davening for a brocha, and suddenly learns something addressing his challenge we could definitely say that Hashem arranged the events, since everything is controlled by Hashem, and the Baal Shem Tov taught about finding a lesson in everything we see.
But deciding that whatever you open up to is a spiritual instruction is baseless and childish.

Qwerty,

To clarify what I mean by “specific”:
Please write date, time and post number, as I have always done for you when referencing a post.

Qwerty and Coffee,

I’m still waiting for you to come out against the Vilna Gaon who said the same vort as Rabbi Posner.

By the way, once your at it, I found that the Ben Yehoyada says the same vort (סנהדרין פט,ב), so I expect you to come out against him as well.

(And again, the root concept that without the tenth test the first nine seemed worthless is a clear Gemara and Rashi on Chumash, as well as hinted in the posuk “NOW i know that you fear Hashem”.)

“In one such essay he discusses the Akeidah and the author said that the Akeidah was the only real test that Abraham faced because the other nine were just acts of Chesed which matched his good nature. Number one that’s absolutely false.”

“All I said is that Rabbi Pozner downplayed Avraham Avinu’s greatness by writing in his book that the Akeidah was our Founder’s only true test which is obviously false. Leaving his homeland and sending away Yishmael were examples of Avraham going against his Middah of Chesed.”

In addition to what I posted earlier, I did some more research, and this is what I found:

The Vilna Gaon:
“By the Akeida Hashem said “Now I I know that you fear Hashem,” because until then Avraham was only a great rachman (merciful) for he would invite guests and do acts of kindness. However, the middah of Achzariyus (cruelty/severity) and forcing himself to fulfill Hashem’s mitzvos was not yet apparent in him, and people could have said that Avraham is not a tzaddik gamur ch”v.

However, at the Akeida, when he also acted with the middah of Achzariyus, for he had a complete desire to fulfill Hashem’s command and slaughter his only son, then he was complete, and it was clear that he was a tzaddik gamur.”

See it here, in his sefer Kol Eliyahu: https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14227&st=&pgnum=7

Will you begin attacking the Vilna Gaon as well now?

Or will you admit that it’s absurd to attack random pirushim and vertelach just because you don’t understand them or don’t like the author?

So according to Shmei no one should study this work because of his “ignorance.”

On the contrary, study it! But don’t viciously attack others because you haven’t studied enough to understand what they mean.

I strongly agree with Yankel Berel, very very well said.

However, I will add that while I strongly support the fact that Jews are staying in control of the area and sending soldiers to protect the Jews, I absolutely don’t support all the symbols of their agenda of making Jews a nation like any other.
This includes their flag, their anthem (which intentionally omits any mention of G-d), the title Medinas Yisroel which they use to substitute the traditional, biblical “Eretz Yisroel.”

Moreover, I feel that the flag, the anthem, etc. are detrimental
to their security, because they give chashivus to our recent, 70-year-old “independence” “given to us” by the UN, as opposed to the fact that it’s an ancient gift from the Creator to Avraham Avinu.
This encourages the bogus claim that we are a “colonialist entity” living on stolen land which must be “returned” to the Arabs, ch”v.

I was especially disheartened when after October 7th, every Jew felt the need to do something to show their support, many chose (in their ignorance, thanks to the Zionist propaganda) to engage in waving the Zionist flag, etc., instead of engaging in true Judaism. (This is not to say that there weren’t many, many Jews who were inspired to add in Torah and mitzvos, but it could have been much more).

When people start associating the flag with Judaism, it’s because they think that the main part of being a Jew is being an “Israeli”, eating Israeli food, speaking the language, singing the songs, and waving the flags. However, true Yiddishkeit cannot be secular, rather it’s only Torah and mitzvos.

when Rashi says that Yaacov avinu did not die there are numerous mefarshim that explain what it means. There is no mefoiresh saying that he is here with us physically. And yet i heard a Chabad rabbi claim that Rashi said that Yaacov is with us physically; that is a lie.

I guess it’s not just Qwerty who is arrogant about his ignorance.

Rashi (Taanos 5b) explains יעקב לא מת literally.
והאי דחנטו חנטיא סבורים היו שמת – they embalmed him because they THOUGHT he was dead.
נדמה להם שהוא מת אבל חי היה – it SEEMED to them that he was dead, but he was alive.

Maharsha and others ARGUE on this pirush, and explain that his body did die.

This is the classic understanding of their argument, not unique to Chabad. Check any Artscroll.

Qwerty,

The Rambam tells us what nevuah is in הלכות יסודי התורה.

Ruach Hakodesh is one thing, Siyata Dishmaya is another and Nevuah is a third and they’re not interchangeable.

You yourself conflated ruach hakodesh with nevuah, because the Gemara which you paraphrased as “there’s no Nevuah until Moshiach comes” actually says: “Since the death of Chagai, Zachariah and Malachai, RUACH HAKODESH departed from Yisroel.”

The Rebbe called the Rayatz a Novi, but he doesn’t relate any specific prophecy.

Why do you drone on about what the Rebbe did or didn’t say or mean, if you’ve never even read it!?
I understand that you struggle with Hebrew and Yiddish, but (1) If you don’t know something, say I don’t know. Don’t start assuming what he said.
(2) At least read a loose translation in English! Google “Chabad dot org parshas shoftim 5751” (lacks all the sources and leshonos of the original, but at least read this.)

I don’t know what the Gemara meant when it said that Yaakov is god.

You obviously don’t know what it meant if you keep taking it at face value as AZ ch”v, but why do you keep attacking ideas if you don’t even understand their meanings?

Now let me see you explain how the Rebbe can argue on the Gemara which says that there’s no Nevuah until Moshiach comes.

Qwerty,

How do you argue with the very same Gemara (Sotah) which states that since the death of Rebbi there is no more humility and fear of sin?

[For example: You described Rav Moshe Feinstein as “exceedingly humble.” You also wrote, “Remember I’m a Lower East Sider and we have a reputation, which I try to uphold, for humility.”]

How does Tosfos (Shabbos 20B) argue with the same Gemara (Sotah) which states that since the churban there is no white glass?

How did the Dubner Maggid say mashalim if the Gemara says that mashal-makers ceased to exist after the passing of R’ Meir?

How did rishonim argue with the Gemara by referring to tzaddikim in their times as “novi”?

How does the Rambam argue with the Gemara by writing that nevuah will return to Klal Yisroel BEFORE Moshiach comes, as a PREPARATION for Moshiach?

How did a masbid in Ashkavta D’Rebbi attribute the qualities of nevuah to the Steipler, Chofetz Chaim, Reb Chaim Velozhiner, etc.?

[See much more on this in my posts responding to your “question” last year.]

Lubavitche that are engaged in idol worship. They just know that some Lubavitchers believe their rebbe is alive, but they have no clue that they worship him like an idol

the prevalence of praying to, instead of to God – to the late habad leader

If you repeat this lie enough times you will probably convince some people to believe you, but that doesn’t change the facts that this is completely false slander and הוצאת שם רע on a part of Klal Yisroel, Hashem yerachem.

It is insane how some evil people who seek to spread hate and מחלוקת among Klal Yisroel have succeeded in having their lies seep in so much.

They prey on ignorant Jews with their missionizing, people who didn’t have proper Jewish education, and try to convince them that they are normative Orthodox Judaism, which is far from the truth.

I pray that you never need to use their “missionizing services” for a family member who lost their way (I don’t mean physically, as this is not Chabad’s true goal).
If ch”v you would be in that situation, oy, how you would regret these words!

Unlocked remotely by a centralized committee? Why can’t you just unlock it yourself?

That may also be an option; however, some might argue that it’s irresponsible for a committee to mass distribute weapons to people who lack proper experience and training. There’s a risk that someone might mistakenly use it on a burglar with children around or during a pro-Palestinian protest or something similar.

Having a central system can help ensure that the weapon is only used in true emergencies when the entire neighborhood requires protection.

The frum oilom is EXTREMELY susceptible to propaganda and fake news.

This is nonsense!
Just yesterday I read on a frum news whatsapp group that statistics show the Jews are the least gullible ethnic group in NYC!

This morning I made a simple request to Menachem Shmei to actually formulate a question which I’ll try to answer. Shmei cites my request and continues to call me a liar for not answering his non-existent question(s). This is bordering on schizophrenia territory.

See my post #2306326 from August 18 2:54 pm, where I reposted a question that challenges your false accusation that a certain obscure Lubavitch teaching is AZ ch”v.

It’s in clear and simple English.

[It was a long post, and was already posted twice, so I don’t think it’s fair to the readers to copy paste it all over again.]

Yankel,

To clarify: I completely agree with your interpretation of all the quotes. However, it is obvious to anyone (who isn’t trying to prove negative things) that the Rebbe meant it exactly as they all meant it.

Again, I must by moiche on Qwerty being allowed to refer to a tzaddik b’Yosroel and tremendous talmid chochom with terms that are definitely not considered respectful dialogue.
Especially as he has not not been able to provide any basis for his slanderous claims.

עָוֹן גָּדוֹל הוּא לְבַזּוֹת תַּלְמִידֵי חֲכָמִים אוֹ לִשְׂנאוֹתָן. לֹא חָרְבָה יְרוּשָׁלַיִם, עַד שֶׁבִּזּוּ בָהּ תַּלְמִידֵי חֲכָמִים, שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר, וַיִהְיוּ מַלְעִיבִים בְּמַלְאֲכֵי הָאֱלֹהִים וּבוֹזִים דְּבָרָיו וּמִתַּעְתְּעִים בִּנְבִיאָיו, כְּלוֹמַר, בּוֹזִים מְלַמְּדֵי דְבָרָיו. וְכֵן זֶה שֶׁאָמְרָה תוֹרָה, וְאִם בְּחֻקֹּתַי תִּמְאָסוּ, מְלַמְּדֵי חֻקּוֹתַי תִּמְאָסוּ. וְכָל הַמְבַזֶּה אֶת הַחֲכָמִים, אֵין לוֹ חֵלֶק לָעוֹלָם הַבָּא, וְהוּא בִּכְלַל כִּי דְבַר ה’ בָּזָה. וְאָסוּר לְשַׁמֵּשׁ בְּמִי שֶהוּא שׁוֹנֶה הֲלָכוֹת.

I never said that Chabad is like any other group, like Ger and like Belz.

I had one point only: Accusing Chabad of AZ is pure slander, מוציא שם רע against an עדה קדושה בישראל to the worst degree.

There is absolutely no basis to this claim, unless one is intentionally trying to misinterpret statements which were equivalent to statements made throughout Torah, as I referenced.
This is no different than the antisemites on the internet who throw together some mistranslated/misinterpreted talmudic passages and make a gevald.

“Hashem runs the world and He will take us out of Galus through His shliach the Rebbe.” Now that’s obviously a forced Pshat but for argument’s sake, we’ll accept it. So here’s the question, “Does any other Jewish group(Chassidish, Litvish Sfard you name it) declare their religious leader G-d’s partner?”

I know, it’s crazy to say that a human being is Hashem’s shliach to do something in the world. Almost as crazy as the kofer whom I overheard yesterday saying that he is supporting his family, as if it’s him and not Hashem. As crazy as Kalev saying that MOSHE split the sea, brought down manna, and flew in quail (see Rashi above). Or imagine if Moshe would have called Moshiach “Hashem’s shliach” to take the Jews out of golus (Rashi Shemos 4:13). As if G-d has partners! Pfft!

Qwerty,

You keep quoting Rabbi Cunin as if he said that the Rebbe runs the world and NOT HASHEM (ch”v).

This is equivalent to quoting Kalev as having said that Moshe alone split the sea, brought down the manna, and blew in the quail—AND NOT HASHEM (ch”v).
(Rashi, Shlach 13:30, based on Sotah)

You are intentionally misinterpreting Chabad statements in order to fit your agenda. This same tactic is quite popular online these days, with antisemites misquoting and misinterpreting passages from the Gemara and halacha, so you’re just jumping on the bandwagon.

I expect that Cardinal Shmei will demand that I answer his challenge and I’ll simply direct him to your post.

Qwerty, you still owe a response to the clear and well founded challenges I gave to your accusations against Chabad.

Unless you would rather stick to name-calling and arguing about who hates you than have a rational discussion about Torah topics.