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I once had a Hava Amina that doctors don’t have Reshus to treat cancer/hereditary diseases because we only know that a doctor has Reshus L’rapos on a Hezek (physical injury) or a contracted disease (Tzinim UPachim). The Ramban on the Passuk clearly says this is wrong. But then I found that the Avnei Nezer agrees with me!
Isn’t it wonderful when Jews quote Stormfront?
Joseph: Whoa. Let’s not conflate two issues. First is whether or not it’s Muttar to learn while living off money from the Tzibbur. The second is whether or not learning gives a Ptur from the army. Just because contemporary society equates both with “Kollel” does not mean they are the same. Not in the slightest.
Also, the Rambam in Bikkurim is referring to those who want to teach Torah, not learn it.
LF: It’s not about the world being Miskayeim because they’re protecting us from Arabs. It’s about the world being Miskayeim because without Talmidei Chachamim we wouldn’t have a world.
I have no idea how that’s relevant to every single 22-year-old in Yeshivah.
Orach Chaim 228 or 230, no?
And newbee: I had the same Sevara back in Yeshiva and asked R’ Elyashiv what was wrong with that logic. I don’t remember his answer, only that it was something along the lines of we have to do what is normally done to take care of ourselves.
To seriously answer the question: Sort of. We’ve been waiting 2000 years for something. We’re still waiting for a lot of things. But we do have part of what we waited so long for.
LF: You are wrong and distorting things on many levels. I’ll just take the basics from each paragraph.
And so is the reverse true, read what I wrote. Without the Torah of Eretz Yisroel C”V…. Let no one fool you. Anyone with a clear mind can discern the openness of had HaShem.. due, NO QUESTION to, the Yeshivos and learning in Eretz Yisroel. You’re not the one who’s actually keeping score, do you happen to know what would have happened had those bachurim stayed and continued to learn?!? How many more open nissim we would have seen?? DO YOU KNOW? As I wrote (only one sentence ago) even gentiles recognize the closeness and involvement of Yad HaShem in Eretz Yisroel; how foolish is it to say ??? ????? ???, this strategy did it, this maneuver won.. So you say “B”H, the bochrim had more seichel” etc. perhaps one day (after studying that particular battle, in depth) you’d come to the conclusion that ” alas, the bochrim were foolishly persuaded and left the hallowed walls of the Bais Medrash to foolishly attempt…” ?? ??? ?? ????? ???
Everyone here is agreeing that Torah protects to some extent. Everyone here is agreeing that the army protects to some extent (I think; you don’t believe that without an army the Arabs would miraculously be unable to walk in on those learning, do you?). Your point is if Torah learning is lessened one iota that it could cost us protection. I’ll reverse your question. How do you know? How do you know that some of those Bochurim in Yeshiva could have stopped a terrorist attack if they had been in the army like HKBH wants? You don’t know and I don’t know. No one can know. Seichel and Torah dictate we have to try and do our best. Which means as many people in the army as the experts determine necessary and everyone else learning as much as possible.
and lesschumras, yes it is a blanket statement, Gemarah says so, and states “an instance of an apikores.. one who ridicules ‘what benefit caused these scholars'”.
Find me where the Gemara says that “Mai Ahanu Lan Rabannan” is in reference to their Torah learning protecting us from physical danger. I’m pretty sure it doesn’t exist.
As BarryLS1 wrote:
Again, everything is min HaShamayim, but we have to do our part first. And most in the Torah community are. The best way possible. With fantastic, wondrous results. ?? ????? ???.
There are wonderful results (lots of Talmud Torah) and there are certainly not wonderful results (terrorist attacks R”L). I will hope that your Tefillah of Kein Yosif isn’t applying to antisemitism and terrorism. Because the status quo might be better than all of Jewish history, but it certainly isn’t something we should want to continue.
Wow guys. Not cool. PBA tried sending a very nice post. Don’t be stupid in jumping on it.
Avi K: He meant any more religious significance that the Yad Hashem that we don’t see every day. It makes sense.
Of course, no one has mentioned the most famous and inspiring story of them all.
When the Yom Kippur War broke out, every reserve in the country was called up. R’ Aharon knew that he couldn’t help in the war (being a solider takes training and such) so he went to the reserves office to find out whatever he could do to help the country. He was told that there was an extreme shortage of milkmen. Too many reservists were milkmen and there was a serious concern that many people would not be able to receive their milk. So R’ Aharon volunteered and became a milkman for the duration of the war.
R’ Gustman ZT”L had just made Aliyah. On a particular day, B’siyata Dishmaya he was on his doorstep talking over a difficult Sugya with a Talmid. (Stories diverge here as to exactly what the Sugya was and why R’ Gustman was having trouble with it, but they all agreed he had some Kashyas he couldn’t answer.) R’ Aharon walked up and delivered the milk. Overhearing the conversation, he answered R’ Gustman’s Kashyas and explained the Sugya clearly according to R’ Gustman’s Mehalach. And then R’ Aharon proceeded to give an entirely different Mehalach that was better anyway.
After R’ Aharon left, R’ Gustman exclaimed to his Talmid, “Baruch Hashem! In this country even the milkmen are Bekiyim in Kol Hatorah Kullah!”
Golfer: See the OP. Someone is assuming there’s a difference.
“1. Is he/she well integrated into a frum community?
2. Does he/she have an open relationship with a rav, and feel comfortable bringing shailos to a rav?
3. Can he/she separate Judaism from individual Jews, so that cv’s an encounter with a rude frum person doesn’t shake his/her beliefs to the core?
4. Does he/she have frum friends, or does he/she interact primarily with non-frum friends?
5. Is he/she comfortable with saying “I don’t know, I need to ask”?”
Why do these questions apply more to a Baal Teshuvah than to anyone?
Joseph: Absolutely not. Unless someone is in a situation where there is a serious chance of becoming not Frum, who the heck cares? You’re gonna date this person. You will speak to them and talk with them. If you’re concerned, don’t marry them. If you’re not, great.
And even if there might be some people with tendencies to leaving Frumkeit, there is no reason to push them off the Derech with two hands by having disgusting conversations like this.
It’s questions and threads like this that are Machti Es HaRabbim and CH”V cause Baalei T’shuvah to be Chozer. This shouldn’t exist.
No, because Gemara Aramaic isn’t really a consistent language.
What you’re asking for is Artscroll.
SHSU is a legit college, presumably with an online program like many colleges have. If the degree is a real SHSU degree, then it is a solid degree from a middle-to-low tier college in Texas.
Joseph: Ayein the famous Tshuvah by the Nodah Bihudah about Tzava’as R’ Yehudah HaChassid V’kach MiSham.
mw13: Meh. Pashtus is that Herzl would have been happy if every Jew was not Frum or if every Jew was Frum, as long as they had a unifying ethnicity and place to live. He wasn’t anti-religious per se (I think), just anti-fractionism.
HaLeiVi: I’m not sure I understand your first paragraph.
catch yourself: Interesting. I wonder what the logic of that is. I would have thought that we should minimize the saying of Yizkor in cases of doubt because there are Shailos involved in the whole Minhag anyway.
DY: I wasn’t referring to this. I was saying theoretically if there was some Minhag that was clearly an Issur D’Oraisa.
Ask a major Rav if you have access to them. There are certain leniencies by wholesalers if no other Kosher food is readily available.
DY: Keys have represented the cross in Christianity for well over a millennium. There is a strong correlation between a key and a cross.
HaLeiVi: No, because “sanctifying” a Minhag from Avodah Zarah is an Issur D’Oraisa, no matter how the reason changed. Mattan Torah was able to change such things according to the Rambam. Nothing else.
LF: If you had a Minhag that was clearly Over an Issur D’Oraisa, would you keep it? Or would you realize that maybe a little Amaratzus creeped in over the Galus and that the Minhag was started improperly?
Oh. He’s talking about a corpse. That’s the normal fashion for a corpse.
Joseph: And how do we know a lot of things? At some point you have to trust that there is Siyata Dishmaya in our knowledge. How do we know our Girsaos in the Gemaros and Rishonim are right? Some of the Geonim had radically different Girsaos in entire Sugyos. And don’t get me started on Girsaos in Kodshim, especially M’ilah.
The fact is, HKBH doesn’t expect us to get these things right. He expects us to do our due diligence (which doesn’t necessarily include historical research) and try to learn the best we can and the rest is just Siyata Dishmaya. In an issue on which I am confident that there is overwhelming historical evidence that a Minhag is a Minhag Shtus, we can assume that HKBH wants us to recognize that it’s a Minhag Shtus.
A parallel case: I have a distant relative who removed/covered all mirrors in the house when she had her first child because if an infant sees their own reflection before their teeth grow in, their teeth will never grow in. In fact, I could find you a source in a relatively-recent Sefer that says such a thing. Now, empirical evidence dictates that babies see their reflection in the mirror and yet their teeth still grow in. We can research how such a Minhag/superstition came about (it is not limited to Judaism in the slightest), but the empirical evidence saying the reason is false, coupled with the fact that I can find this superstition mentioned in secular sources long before it’s ever mentioned in a Jewish source, tells me it’s a Minhag Shtus and the Sefer that quoted it was just relating what he had heard from superstitious people on this and made the same “Im Lav Neviim” assumption.
DY: I have respect for Chassidim, thank you very much. I have respect for Talmidei Chachamim and even more respect for major Talmidei Chachamim. It is not due to a lack of respect that I think they were trying to find a source for a Minhag (because of the assumption that “Im Lav Neviim”) but just didn’t know the origin of this practice.
DY: It’s not called Hisgarus B’umos to defend ourselves when they are attacking us.
LF: Ah, I read your parenthetical comment as saying that the mods didn’t let it through.
Joseph: Ah, but what if I know the Mekor of the Minhag and know that it’s a Minhag Shtus?
DY: Nope. Seems like the Umos being Misgareh Banu to me.
Thank you mods
DY: Really? I think I’m strongly anti-Schlissel Challah because it’s an Issur D’Oraisa of Chukas Akum.
Joseph: I was saying this a few years before I saw anything from Alfassa. He just sums it up nicely. It’s relatively obvious if you study history and remove the assumption that it’s impossible we ended up borrowing something from our neighbors.
DY: And, as I’m sure you are aware, R’ Hoffman’s “debunking” is in no way successful. In the slightest.
DY: In Jersey, everyone is a mandated reporter. Everyone. No matter the profession. And if you ask a Shailah, now the Rabbi can go to jail if they don’t report as well. That’s what “you can’t ask a Shailah” means.
Isn’t this, like, the most famous Torah from The Rav?
DY: No, he’s saying that you’ll go to jail for not reporting so it’s not worth living in Jersey. Also, isn’t it a Gemara in Niddah that implies if the government will punish the Rav for covering up that he can turn someone in? I think it’s a Machlokes Rishonim there.
One has to take into account the Shittos that there is no Issur of Mesirah in places with a fair legal system.
oyyoy: Quite simply, in philosophical terms, if I can’t prove something, I have no right to assume its existence. Assumptions are the bane of philosophical logic.
yekke2: No, I don’t. And I’m not gonna give the full rant because it won’t help anything.
This thread depresses me every year. I still can’t believe this is a thing.
mw13: People treat it differently because society defined it differently. Ain Hachi Nami society should change. But until it does the fact is that it is subjectively more meaningful to a lot of people. And, when used in a Frum context 6 years ago (some are trying to change it now), “gay” almost meant “has same-sex attraction”, not someone who is actively homosexual.
I’ve heard of the banana Minhag. I think it was started by the Chayei Adam (I think that’s what I heard) to show everyone they’re Adamah and not HaEitz.
This Chametz under the nails thing is a bit ridiculous. Wash your kids’ hands when they’re dirty. Who has Chametz close enough to the Zman Issur and then doesn’t wash their hands for the next two hours at least? I’m very confused. If it’s washed with soap, it’s Nifsal NeiAchilas HaKelev.
Jewish Thinker: It doesn’t matter what dogs *do* eat. It matters what they can and won’t stop after tasting it and won’t severely negatively affect them.
Every story has an infinite number of morals.
I am Chozer from what I said two years ago. It is a children’s toy and therefore made to be not harmful if eaten. Therefore, any brand that uses actual flour in it (most brands do) is Chametz Gamur D’Oraisa.
Joseph: The party is celebrating their being together as a couple. It’s not explicitly (or even implicitly, nowadays) celebrating a Maaseh Aveirah. They’re being Oveir without the ability to have a wedding. This isn’t 100 years ago when not being “married” would stop people from performing Maaseh Aveiros. Nowadays, it’s just a huge party and waste of money. I don’t hear it.
Joseph: I honestly really don’t see the logic of that claim. What about a party changes their willingness to follow their sexual preference?
Joseph: By that logic, the Rambam wasn’t allowed to be the Rambam until 100 years later. There’s clearly something in the middle you’re missing.
Divrei Hayamim: Please, enlighten me on what a homosexualist is. The Rambam says Maaseh Eretz Mitzrayim is two women “being” together. Not attempting to marry someone of the same gender.
“Marriage” is not part of their Mitzvos. Eishes Ish is. They have to accept Eishes Ish. That has nothing to do with any other form of “marriage”.
Divrei HaYamim: Find me what the Issur is. None of the Halachic Rishonim bring down that interpretation of Ma’aseh Eretz Mitzrayim, as far as I know. And having an agenda is still Hana’as Atzman. They don’t want to destroy religion. They just want religion to be “nice” to them. Now, the only way to accomplish that is by destroying religion. But that’s a means, not an end, which is exactly what Hana’as Atzman means.
And an anti-Torah “Jewish” movement is Apikorsus. Goyim are not Metzuvim on things like Mach’chish Magideha and similar forms of Apikorsus. That’s why we have Torah Sheba’al Peh and they don’t.
nisht: Two women is an Issur D’Oraisa of Maaseh Eretz Mitzrayim, which is not Arayos (certainly for a Goy) and therefore is not Assur for non-Jews.
divrei hayamim: This is not Sha’as Hashmad. It’s not L’ha’avir Al Das. It’s L’hana’as Atzman.
By the way, I don’t know how legit this whole conversation is. What’s the Issur of a wedding? The Torah has an Issur of Ma’aseh Biah. I’m not sure why a party celebrating something related to something Assur is Assur for non-Jews.